orange provocation

Here is how I can see it. Get ready for honest opinion from a man who have 2 university diplomas, ran company in Belfast for 4 years and in Poland for 2, have wide contacts across Europe and been in about 80% of EU countries, still make grammar mistakes.

What I have experienced in front of my house during your bonfire was weird. Watching my country flag burning during biggest national (NI) celebration of some stupid small battle...come on

By the way. Here is a Polish history in a nutshell. “Swallow” it please before you continue...
„Baginski Animowana Historia Polski 2010 HD”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_-_FFlKxeA
…do you think that we won’t “burst in flames” when anyone burn our flags all across the city?
WHO IS THE VOICE OF THIS IDEA? COME ON SAY IT !!! NOW IS THE TIME.
Once again I ask “IS IT OK TO BURN OUR OR IRISH OR ANY OTHER FLAGS?”
IF YES – We go for a walk
IF NO - …(fill the blank)
Is this OK m8? - http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/twelfth/police-officers-injured-in-ardoyne-violence-after-orange-order-march-16184467.html?action=Popup&ino=239
Or maybe that is fine? - https://picasaweb.google.com/112642226848310840787/BritishAreBurningPolishAndIrishFlagsBelfastUnitedKingdom12July2012?authuser=0&feat=directlink
Shall I start to tell episodes of what “I - Polish fella” have experienced in Belfast within last 8 years? Don’t get me wrong, I still LOVE this place and a lot of people depend on my support here. But some incidents just blow my head off and I can’t believe my eyes.

I walk from house to house to fix things for people and my wife work in the hospital. Yes we seen enough….and I leave it like that.

What I seen on 11 / 12 July 2012 was some kind of burst of unexplainable force. As I said before I didn’t care for last 7 years, but now I feel your pain (south)…

Belfast is the place where I met people from places like Zimbabwe, All (and I mean it) EU countries, India, China and many many more. We live in the age where it takes me 10 hours to go “Home” to Poland. We have technology which will allow us to live in peace and mutual respect.
Meanwhile in Belfast some punks decided to …WHAT? WHAT WAS IT?
“KIDS STUFF”??? I don’t buy it.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Okay, be as willfully dense as you want, to stay in denial.
The Parade Commission was the British Governments answer to calls for the activities of the OO to be curtailed. The OO refuse to recognise that Commission despite not being able to do anything about their rulings.

and all this is proof that the OO was/is state-supported. Gotcha.

Happyman42 wrote: »

And tell us this, are you saying that all of those at Drumcree and Ardoyne flashpoints are the neanderthals of the OO order....are you sure about that?

That's exactly what I was saying. :rolleyes:

Happyman42 wrote: »

Head in the sand denial, again. I live on the border, the buses leaving this town and immediate hinterland, on the 12th numbered in the twenties, just a few years ago. No bus leaves the town today. And that trend can be seen all along the border where orangism was once at it's most entrenched and triumphalist, for obvious reasons.
Always remembering that membership never reflected the amount of people who turned up for a day out, the decline in membership is severe in some areas and steady in others, nowhere is there growth. That has nothing to do with the decline in religious participation. The OO has nothing to offer those who want to live in peace, and the border areas are at peace.

Maybe your local lodges aren't indicative of the overall numbers - Keady had a healthy attendance this year, and overall the numbers are still massive. Like it or not, it's still got years of go left in it. The future is going to be about managing the idiots, not hoping the marches wither away.

alastair wrote: »

Fill the blank?

Obviously it's not okay to antagonise people by burning flags, but it ranks pretty low on most people's 'give a ****' register. Quite what you believe you can do to stop people who are intent on burning a flag is something of a mystery.

You might not give a toss about showing respect to the flag of your country but I think it would not be "pretty low" on what most Irish people find offensive to see it burned on a pile of pallets.
And I'm sure the Polish feel the same about their flag. I work with alot of Polish people and they are all very proud of their country and it's traditions.

alastair wrote: »

I'll save my ire for actions that impinge on actual people, not fabric. How do you propose to stop people burning a flag if they want to? It's not illegal here or there (NI).

No it's not illegal but that doesn't mean people have to like it or say nothing when they see it happening.

Maybe start here
Reconciling Freedom of Expression and Flag Desecration:
a Comparative Study

http://www.hanselawreview.org/pdf3/Vol2No1Art10.pdf

karma_ wrote: »

The whole point is it did impinge on people. You have one such guy in this thNot only is it downright fúcking pathetic these saps thought it acceptable to burn that particular flag or indeed any flag, it's more tragic still that others can't see the problem inherent in that kind of behaviour. Why should we do as you suggest and ignore this kind of thing and allow those who intimidate to do so with impunity. without so much as a chastening word?

That's your solution - 'a chastening word'?

I'll stick with ignoring the attention-seeking idiocy.

If we will find legal definition of this act, this can be stopped.

karma_ wrote: »

The whole point is it did impinge on people. You have one such guy in this thread who had the flag of his country burned on his doorstep, if that is not flat out intimidation then what is?

How would we feel if were in Poland and they built a big fire right where you lived and burned an Irish flag? Is that an environment you could feel safe in?

Not only is it downright fúcking pathetic these saps thought it acceptable to burn that particular flag or indeed any flag, it's more tragic still that others can't see the problem inherent in that kind of behaviour. Why should we do as you suggest and ignore this kind of thing and allow those who intimidate to do so with impunity. without so much as a chastening word?

Thanks,

From my first post
“I was quiet when kids damaged my cars numerous times.
I was quiet when little bastards threw garbage, eggs at my home.
I was quiet when everywhere you go you are pushed to the side for the benefit of local society.
I was quiet when drive by thugs broke windows in my friend’s car.
I was quiet when joy riders demolished my friends cars numerous time.
I was quiet when my wife was verbally abused by the kids age 7-12
and more”


And now this s**t in front of my house


Go and ask anyone from any other place than Belfast and ask this question – Is it OK to burn national flags at the door steps of your "friends"?
I get it. For you it is OK, but ask other nations what they think about it. Belfast became a multicultural place.

We need a legal term for those actions against immigrants / visitors.

Freedom ends where privacy starts.

It is not subject to discussion, it is a firsthand story based on facts. In this thread we gathered enough stories about Belfast “relations” with people who filled up the gaps you wouldn’t be able to fill without us –people from abroad.


How about to respect other people values and make sure it won’t happen again? How hard can that be? Keep marches and all that other stuff, but for crying that loud, there are little kids that learn hate towards other nation’s flags. It is soooooo messed up. It does not matter if it is Polish, Irish or Zimbabwean flag.

Don’t believe me. Educate yourself about influence of such acts. Everywhere you go, everywhere you ask it is wrong thing to do by any standards.

Have to laugh at those from the North or live here defending such actions on that video. Those bands men knew what they were doing.

Yes there are peaceful marches but that has come with lots of talk. They spent years talking in Derry, still not totally peaceful. At those flash point areas the Orange Order do not want to talk to the people that live there.

Pedant wrote: »

And people wonder why there's riots? I mean come on, this is just utter provocation.

Imagine what would happen if the Ancient Order of Hibernians had a spectacle like that outside an Anglican Church in NI singing anti-British songs - what do you think the reaction would be?

It's just terrible. I mean communities who've been there a lot longer than those Ulster-Scots are being told to "go home". Who the fudge do they think they are? I wonder who should be telling who to "go home"? It's utterly pathetic.

The Orange Order are one of the main catalysts for tensions in NI, as ever. Hope they get banned. They talk about improving intercommunal relations, etc.., but how are the Orange Order helping that?

You don't see any exclusively Catholic bands marching around behaving like that. Why can't Catholics and Protestants just get along as they do in the Republic?

There are a few Orange Orders in the South in Donegal & Cavan.. Do they march on the 12th get up to anything that riles the rest of the population ?

Bessiebee wrote: »

Sorry but they do march, the annual 12th is in Rossnowlagh, County DONEGAL on the Saturday before the 12th. There does be even some Catholics in attendance - in fact half the marchers are married to one, some even have children which could be described as such :eek:

No sh/te stirring either - Donegal County Council very tolerant.

Interesting thanks