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Swedish house mafia stabbings (Updated Mod Warning Post #1)

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    #1172
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    giggle84 wrote: »
    Seriously? Get a life. You can't compare a fisherman drowning or someone dying in a house fire to someone who knowingly puts a dangerous substance into their body and then dies as a direct result of that substance. Where did I say that I had no sympathy for people who die in accidents? I believe I actually said the exact opposite. People walk outside the house every day and don't know what could happen.. they could be killed in a drive by shooting, or walk out in front of a car or choke on a sweet. These are not the same as dying from doing something you know could kill you. It's nothing to do with drugs being illegal, although there's obviously a reason they're illegal. If you have unprotected sex and get pregnant, you can't blame anyone else. If you take a substance that you know might kill you and you die, it's tragic but it's no one else's fault. That was my only point, you made up the other stuff yourself to try to discredit me.

    So for the record, in my opinion.. the person who crosses the road and doesn't look and gets knocked down does not deserve it, there's a driver involved too, and such cases do not occur by choice. The fisherman that drowned doing his job is a victim, he was trying to make a living. If you smoke and have a smoking related illness, yeah you know the dangers but cigarettes are LEGAL and addictive, not the same thing. Housefire - by now your argument is getting ridiculous, of course I have sympathy for victims of house fires, there's a bit of a difference between putting on the chip pan for the dinner and popping pills in the Phoenix Park.

    Again.. get a life.

    How about equestrianism?


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    #1173
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    When you open this thread, there should be some sort of embedded background music.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akt3awj_Ah8


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    #1174
    Laminations
    Registered Users Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    staker wrote: »
    I fingered a bird.

    How did you catch it? and how small are your fingers?


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    #1175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Monty Burnz wrote: »

    I suppose today he's telling everyone he had a great time - 'I got totally locked blah blah...'

    Don't forget "i took on 8 of them"


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    #1176
    Higher
    Site Banned Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭Higher


    Pretty vicious.

    The guy in the most serious condition was a tourist. He was stabbed after coming to the aid of a woman who was being attacked. He was stabbed multiple times in the back and once in the HEAD.

    jesus f christ. What an animal.


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    #1177
    Laneyh
    Registered Users Posts: 756 ✭✭✭Laneyh


    connundrum wrote: »
    Sorry, I should've been more specific. I would have a 'field' A&E set up in every town which already has a hospital, maybe even on the same site. The thing could literally be operated from an actual tent as far as I'm concerned, with the main point of it to direct the drunken/drugged/abusive patients and their cohort away from the main A&E department.

    This could even be run on a Fri, Sat and Sun night to deal with the main influx. I firmly believe that a drunken/drugged injury should carry a higher cost. This could fund the cost of the running of such an operation.

    *Yes, I'm aware that this is fairytale stuff.

    All excellent suggestions really. Funding and resources present major obstacles to implementing something like this but there would be ways around that
    If we recognise it for what it is ..crisis management help could be enlisted in the form of the army reserve and voluntary organisations like the civil defence, order of Malta, St Johns Ambulance etc.

    Definitely charge people for wasting time and resources getting themselves into a state.
    Also, introduce mandatory community service penalties - have the idiots involved on clean up duty at their local A&E let them experience it from the other side.. It might even make a breakthrough with some of them




    If you were drunk, you wouldn't have the choice (in this fairytale scenario).



    Not if operated correctly. The Gardai are well able to arrest people as it is without causing a riot, this would give them a place to put the offender(s) post arrest. I firmly believe that Gardai are currently not arresting as many offenders as they come across as they realise that there is:

    a) no space in the garda stations for the drunkards
    b) the paperwork required for an arrest is nearly prohibitive
    c) once arrested, the offender would be released within hours anyway

    I've seen people of all ages blatently disregard the gardai and their advice/direction because there is no fear of consequence.

    *This need not be fairytale stuff.

    All excellent suggestions really. Funding and resources present major obstacles to implementing something like this but there would be ways around that
    If we recognise it for what it is ..crisis management help could be enlisted in the form of the army reserve and voluntary organisations like the civil defence, order of Malta, St Johns Ambulance etc.

    Definitely charge people for wasting time and resources getting themselves into a state.
    Also, introduce mandatory community service penalties - have the idiots involved on clean up duty at their local A&E let them experience it from the other side.. It might even make a breakthrough with some of them


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    #1178
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    I hope the missing girl turns up safe, but otherwise this whole concert seems to have triggered a tsunami of out-of-all-proportion tut-tutting in some people.:rolleyes:

    There were 45,000 people there, which is about the population of Waterford city. Of those, 44,970 were not involved in knife-fights and 44,998 did not die of a drug overdose or suspected drug overdose.:cool:

    All we can learn from last weekend is that we Irish are not nearly as good at organising mass events (other than those like the visit of the Protector of Paedophiles Everywhere, where drink is almost totally absent) as we like to kid ourselves. Part of the solution would be to enact legislation setting very high standards and requirements for those who organise these events and for their personnel, and giving those personnel real powers to act to prevent violence and dangerous situations.:rolleyes:

    Another step forward might be to legalise, control and tax drugs, spending part or all of the revenue thereby generated on programmes to help young people either avoid them or enjoy them responsibly and in moderation.:cool:

    But this is Ireland, and a lot more energy will go into writing the kind of moaning crap you see in the Daily Mail under the signature "White Octogenerian" than into actually making an effort to deal realistically with the problems we have.:D


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    #1179
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Laminations wrote: »
    Raymond Donnan, 22, from Greenfort Crescent in Clondalkin, Dublin, faces five charges in connection with a stabbing at the Swedish House Mafia concert last Saturday night.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0709/man-charged-with-concert-stabbings-due-in-court.html

    Denied bail

    What hasn't been reported in the media, yet, is his laundry list of previous criminal convictions.

    You can start with this from when he was 20 (which says he had 22 previous convictions then)




    Another 'troubled youth' :rolleyes: slipped through the fumbling hands of our justice system, who couldn't deal with him appropriately the first time they were presented with him, or the second, or the third.......

    You mean it wasn't someone who just tried drugs for the first time then went mental................. but mom and pops said that's how it always is...


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    #1180
    staker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,677 ✭✭✭staker


    Laminations wrote: »
    How did you catch it? and how small are your fingers?


    http://youtu.be/8sXvrFKuqEM:pac:


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    #1181
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    No I'm not saying that.

    But you're singling out violent actions.
    I'm saying you could do something that makes no logical sense. Like stabbing someone. In fact that's exactly what I said, word for word.
    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    There's also a chance that someone will sit on the ground and sing a song after taking drugs (be it alcohol, weed or whatever).
    Yes. My post doesn't suggest otherwise.
    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    Drugs don't always lead to violence. And yes they impede the thought process but so does lack of sleep.
    My post doesn't suggest otherwise.
    AnonoBoy wrote: »
    So by that logic you could say that every time you don't get a good night's sleep there's a chance you will do something that makes no logical sense - like stab someone.
    Well if you don't sleep for a week - as a form of torture, perhaps - then yes. Hallucinations etc. can happen, as your brain chemistry is upset much like when you are on some drugs.

    People are determined to see what they want in your post rather than reading what you are actually saying. I'm pretty sure my posts are clearly written, so it must be something to do with levels of reading comprehension.


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    #1182
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Cheeky_gal wrote: »
    Are you actually saying one drink is the equivalent to a pill?

    You're obviously a drug user yes? Anything to justify your habit

    You're a drug-user as well. You've admitted to drinking alcohol a few posts back, trying to justify your habit by claiming you only drink a glass or two of wine! Get off your high horse.
    giggle84 wrote: »
    Seriously? Get a life. You can't compare a fisherman drowning or someone dying in a house fire to someone who knowingly puts a dangerous substance into their body and then dies as a direct result of that substance. Where did I say that I had no sympathy for people who die in accidents? I believe I actually said the exact opposite. People walk outside the house every day and don't know what could happen.. they could be killed in a drive by shooting, or walk out in front of a car or choke on a sweet. These are not the same as dying from doing something you know could kill you. It's nothing to do with drugs being illegal, although there's obviously a reason they're illegal. If you have unprotected sex and get pregnant, you can't blame anyone else. If you take a substance that you know might kill you and you die, it's tragic but it's no one else's fault. That was my only point, you made up the other stuff yourself to try to discredit me.

    So for the record, in my opinion.. the person who crosses the road and doesn't look and gets knocked down does not deserve it, there's a driver involved too, and such cases do not occur by choice. The fisherman that drowned doing his job is a victim, he was trying to make a living. If you smoke and have a smoking related illness, yeah you know the dangers but cigarettes are LEGAL and addictive, not the same thing. Housefire - by now your argument is getting ridiculous, of course I have sympathy for victims of house fires, there's a bit of a difference between putting on the chip pan for the dinner and popping pills in the Phoenix Park.

    Again.. get a life.

    The amount of misinformed rubbish in this thread is disheartening. This post is among the worst. You'll find more people die in road accidents than do when compared to deaths from taking certain kinds of drugs, so are you saying we shouldn't have any sympathy for people who die in car crashes giggle? They knowingly choose to use the road even though they know they could get seriously hurt while doing so. Can you see the hypocrisy in your argument? People make their own choices but that doesn't mean we can't have any sympathy for them.


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    #1183
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,254 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    RVP 11 wrote: »
    Don't forget "i took on 8 of them"

    no way in hell that guy is on pills........ pure unadulterated boozed up there...


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    #1184
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Higher wrote: »
    Pretty vicious.

    The guy in the most serious condition was a tourist. He was stabbed after coming to the aid of a woman who was being attacked. He was stabbed multiple times in the back and once in the HEAD.

    jesus f christ. What an animal.

    Well that has to be attempted murder.


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    #1185
    Higher
    Site Banned Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭Higher


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well that has to be attempted murder.

    Has to be. Theres precedent as well. That lad in Driminagh went down for murder (not manslaugter) for stabbing those two Polish guys in the head with a screw driver so surely stabbing someone in the head with a knife is attempted murder in the eyes of our criminal justice system?

    ....except hes charged with assault causing GBH....:rolleyes:


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    #1186
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    Another step forward might be to legalise, control and tax drugs, spending part or all of the revenue thereby generated on programmes to help young people either avoid them or enjoy them responsibly and in moderation.:cool:
    We had a preview of how well prohibition worked in the the US in the 30s, but we reckon we can make it work today... :rolleyes:

    I'm happy enough to let folks destroy themselves with drugs as long as the rest of us don't have to pick up the tab. Legalise drugs that don't make people become psychotic and let them at it. But if you fry your brain, you are on your own.


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    #1187
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    no way in hell that guy is on pills........ pure unadulterated boozed up there...

    One flute rang in to the Joe Duffy show today to say some of the violent ones were on ketemine.

    "Yes, caller, you are talking ****e".


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    #1188
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Higher wrote: »
    Has to be. Theres precedent as well. That lad in Driminagh went down for murder (not manslaugter) for stabbing those two Polish guys in the head with a screw driver so surely stabbing someone in the head with a knife is attempted murder in the eyes of our criminal justice system?

    ....except hes charged with assault causing GBH....:rolleyes:

    Hopefully the charges so far are just the people who were released from hospital quickly.


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    #1189
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mikom wrote: »
    One flute rang in to the Joe Duffy show today to say some of the violent ones were on ketemine.

    "Yes, caller, you are talking ****e".

    I assume they use that to make horses run faster yeah?


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    #1190
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    The amount of misinformed rubbish in this thread is disheartening. This post is among the worst. You'll find more people die in road accidents than do when compared to deaths from taking certain kinds of drugs, so are you saying we shouldn't have any sympathy for people who die in car crashes giggle? They knowingly choose to use the road even though they know they could get seriously hurt while doing so. Can you see the hypocrisy in your argument? People make their own choices but that doesn't mean we can't have any sympathy for them.
    I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument, but this is a weak point - people don't use the roads for a laugh, they use them because they must as a part of their daily lives.


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    #1191
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I assume they use that to make horses run faster yeah?

    Seahorses maybe........


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    #1192
    rain10
    Site Banned Posts: 41 ✭rain10


    Absolutely horrific all the stories coming out of this, security were more worried about people bringing in their own drink than searching for knifes etc, it may have been the roughest concert in a long time but there was 45-46 thousand people there, to the people that are saying it was just a scum fest and that all the same ''type'' were at it annoys me, still am shocked about the stabbing but 95% were there to have a good time and caused no trouble luckily my friends saw none of that bar the few mud fights , please god the missing girl is ok and safe and gets found soon


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    #1193
    leftleg
    Registered Users Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭leftleg


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Look at that fat f*cking clown attacking some guy trying to break up the fight around 30 seconds in. Gets dragged off, covered in sh*t, bleeding from the face, probably senseless drunk anyhow.

    I suppose today he's telling everyone he had a great time - 'I got totally locked blah blah...'

    Well he did take precautions by wearing his wellies;)


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    #1194
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I assume they use that to make horses run faster yeah?


    ...in the sense of the horses who didn't take it running faster than the one that did.


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    #1195
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    giggle84 wrote: »
    Seriously? Get a life. You can't compare a fisherman drowning or someone dying in a house fire to someone who knowingly puts a dangerous substance into their body and then dies as a direct result of that substance. Where did I say that I had no sympathy for people who die in accidents? I believe I actually said the exact opposite. People walk outside the house every day and don't know what could happen.. they could be killed in a drive by shooting, or walk out in front of a car or choke on a sweet. These are not the same as dying from doing something you know could kill you. It's nothing to do with drugs being illegal, although there's obviously a reason they're illegal. If you have unprotected sex and get pregnant, you can't blame anyone else. If you take a substance that you know might kill you and you die, it's tragic but it's no one else's fault. That was my only point, you made up the other stuff yourself to try to discredit me.

    So for the record, in my opinion.. the person who crosses the road and doesn't look and gets knocked down does not deserve it, there's a driver involved too, and such cases do not occur by choice. The fisherman that drowned doing his job is a victim, he was trying to make a living. If you smoke and have a smoking related illness, yeah you know the dangers but cigarettes are LEGAL and addictive, not the same thing. Housefire - by now your argument is getting ridiculous, of course I have sympathy for victims of house fires, there's a bit of a difference between putting on the chip pan for the dinner and popping pills in the Phoenix Park.

    Again.. get a life.
    The hypocrisy and ignorance in your above post is astounding, and the scary thing is, I think you actually believe it and you're not trolling.
    You said you had no sympathy for people who die doing something when they know is taking a risk.
    giggle84 wrote: »
    Don't you mean condolences to those who were stabbed? The people who died killed themselves with drugs. I don't know anything about these people, might have been the nicest people ever, but if you take drugs you know the risks and if you die, well it wasn't worth the risk then was it. I feel sorry for their families at the senseless loss they must feel, but if you risk your life by swallowing/snorting/injecting something that's probably laced with rat poison, cement and god knows what else, well then you don't deserve any sympathy.


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    #1196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Nodin wrote: »
    ...in the sense of the horses who didn't take it running faster than the one that did.

    Joke.


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    #1197
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    I'm not disagreeing with the thrust of your argument, but this is a weak point - people don't use the roads for a laugh, they use them because they must as a part of their daily lives.

    Fair enough, the point was that a lot of things in life are inherently dangerous, doesn't mean we should reserve sympathy only for people who die doing what some would perceive as 'acceptable'. I could qualify the road usage argument further but there's no point really.


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    #1198
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Joke.

    O... Soz.


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    #1199
    Duck Soup
    Registered Users Posts: 3,996 ✭✭✭Duck Soup


    The mods have requested that we stick to facts in relation to the promoters, so I will. I'm sure it's not the mods intent to stifle legitimate questions. So I'll make the following observations.

    1. In the last 7 years, there have been two major concert events which have resulted in a huge amount of high-profile media coverage around violence and disorder. Both of these events were promoted by MCD.

    2. In both instances, questions have been raised about the level of stewards and Garda present at the events. I was at Oxegen that infamous year when it all went pear-shaped and whenever there was trouble, stewards and guards were typically nowhere in sight.

    3. MCD maintain in their official statement that they had more than enough security than was 'required' for an event of its size. What are the requirements? Do these requirements alter according to the expected make up of the crowd - for example, more teens/early 20s people to be expected at a dance concert?

    I'd also ask if anyone knows the truth of something I heard on FM4, where they said that the promoter is required to pay for all the Garda presence at an event. Is that the case? If it is, it would create a situation where the promoter would be typically trying to 'talk down' the numbers needed. I would hope that the Gardai actually get to set the number independently and then give it as a definitive take-it-or-leave it bill to the promoters.


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    #1200
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    mikom wrote: »
    One flute rang in to the Joe Duffy show today to say some of the violent ones were on ketemine.

    "Yes, caller, you are talking ****e".

    Ketamin Joe, and not just any ketamin, they're taking special ketamine Joe. There's young fellas running around out there on horse tranquilizers! It's no wonder there was stabbings Joe.


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    #1201
    V_Moth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,423 ✭✭✭V_Moth


    connundrum wrote: »
    Parts of solution (with the main part being that everyone take individual responsibility for their actions):

    1) More security, more training for security stewards, more policing.
    This is easy to say i.e. throw more money at a problem, but I have worked at dozens of gigs where there was not enough security to handle the problems that arose AND sometimes when there was enough security presence - half of the staff didn't have training/experience in dealing with violence/drunks/proper searches etc.

    At one of the Oxegen gigs I was working at, half of my team (6 guys) just walked away from the job after a few hours standing in the rain. This issue replicated itself year after year to a lesser or greater degree.

    2) A drunk tank. Fuck the liberals. If you are drunk to the point where you're a danger to yourself or others, then you should be taken to a central point, put in a cell/room for 10-12 hours, allowed to sober up and then fined €100. Why not?

    This worked really well in Poland when we were there for the Euro Championships. All of the guys that were with me were very aware that the drunk tank existed and that if they went overboard - there was a consequence. At the moment it feels like there is no consequence to the bad behaviour displayed by those who get out of hand.

    Current Legislation:



    3) A 'field' A&E Department - set up excusively to deal with drunk/drug related injuries/medical issues. This won't help solve the problem, but it will take the pressure off of our hospital A&E Departments who are trying to deal with 'real' medical issues.

    Again, those taken to the 'field' A&E could be arbitrarily charged a fee for their stay etc.

    Some excellent suggestions there, but there is no need to insult whatever group are causing the problems as it makes you look close-minded.

    I wonder if the time limit for arresting somebody for disordrly behaviour (00.00 to 07.00) was to prevent it being used in a corrupt manner (such as at political demonstrations). Maybe a derogation could be brought in for future large gigs?


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