Swedish house mafia stabbings (Updated Mod Warning Post #1)

Laneyh

coolhandluke wrote: »

Anybody see the way this is going ?, MCD's fault, Security's fault, Gardais fault......

What about the people who got so blind drunk, they couldn't look after themselves ?

What about the people who got out of their heads, they couldn't function ?

What about the people who physically assaulted other people ?

What about the people who stabbed other people ?

Welcome to ireland, 2012......all rights no responsibility.

You are correct on all counts but how do you eradicate those people without the assistance of security and gardai ?

If there were more security staff in the park , at the entrance and around the grounds the people in a bad state or attacking others could have been dealt with
Similarly anyone openly dealing drugs, fighting or creating disorder could have been carted off by the gardai. I think that is what the majority of people are saying not that the individuals in question are not responsible for their own behaviour. Their behaviour is abhorrent but trying to address this antisocial , damaging behaviour requires a lot of resource, a shift in societal attitudes and being honest a collective effort from every one of us. The individuals involved are absolutely responsible for their disgusting behaviour and should be held accountable for it. If this means that we have to bring in zero tolerance measures so be it.

Monty Burnz

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But every time you take (some) drugs, there's a chance you're going to do something that doesn't make a lot of logical sense. Like stab people.

I've taken a fair few drugs in my youth - if the lad in question was on drugs chances are I've taken the same as him at some point. I've never had the inclination to stab anyone though, in fact I've never been in trouble while on drugs at all.

OK, in that case you are arguing that my position is incorrect and that when you take any drug there is NO chance that you will do something that makes no logical sense - like stab someone. I think you will find your argument is wrong.

giggle84

TheGoldenAges wrote: »

Should have been more specific, I meant posters :cool:

Lol. I was at the gig. And I would like to state for the record that I am 27, gainfully employed, don't do drugs but I do drink, and I was not wearing shorts with my bum cheeks hanging out!

connundrum

Parts of solution (with the main part being that everyone take individual responsibility for their actions):

1) More security, more training for security stewards, more policing.
This is easy to say i.e. throw more money at a problem, but I have worked at dozens of gigs where there was not enough security to handle the problems that arose AND sometimes when there was enough security presence - half of the staff didn't have training/experience in dealing with violence/drunks/proper searches etc.

At one of the Oxegen gigs I was working at, half of my team (6 guys) just walked away from the job after a few hours standing in the rain. This issue replicated itself year after year to a lesser or greater degree.

2) A drunk tank. Fuck the liberals. If you are drunk to the point where you're a danger to yourself or others, then you should be taken to a central point, put in a cell/room for 10-12 hours, allowed to sober up and then fined €100. Why not?

This worked really well in Poland when we were there for the Euro Championships. All of the guys that were with me were very aware that the drunk tank existed and that if they went overboard - there was a consequence. At the moment it feels like there is no consequence to the bad behaviour displayed by those who get out of hand.

Current Legislation:

Disorderly conduct in a public place

This offence is concerned with what is described as “offensive conduct”.

Section 5(i) of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 makes it an offence for anyone in a public place to engage in offensive conduct:

Between the hours of 12 o’clock midnight and 7 o’clock in the morning next following; or
At any time, after having been requested by a member of An Garda Siochana to desist.

Offensive conduct is unreasonable behaviour which (having regard to the circumstances), is likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance to other people. The penalty for this offence is a class D fine.

The purpose of this offence was to deal with the types of disorderly behaviour which falls short of threatening behaviour but could nevertheless adversely affect the quality of people’s lives. A typical example of this offence would be people shouting late at night having left nightclubs where this would cause serious annoyance to local residents.

Section 23A has been inserted in the Act by Section 184 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 and allows the Gardai to impose a fixed charge fine for disorderly conduct in a public place instead of court proceedings for this offence. In order to have the offence treated as a fixed charge offence, you must give your name and address to the Garda. Failure to do so means you may arrested without warrant and be convicted of a summary offence for which the maximum penalty is a class C fine. If the Gardai choose to have this offence treated as a fixed-charge offence, they may serve notice on you that you will not be charged if a stated amount is paid within 28 days. The amount of the fixed charge, currently €140, is set by Regulations.

3) A 'field' A&E Department - set up excusively to deal with drunk/drug related injuries/medical issues. This won't help solve the problem, but it will take the pressure off of our hospital A&E Departments who are trying to deal with 'real' medical issues.

Again, those taken to the 'field' A&E could be arbitrarily charged a fee for their stay etc.

melekalikimaka

elpistolero wrote: »

sorry to hear about stabbings and stuff but it happens at all festivals throughout the world, we aint the only ones, time to put on more aftersun

rubbish, not to this extent,not even close. wasnt even a camping event either

El Weirdo

drquirky wrote: »

Love how a gig can have 9 stabbings and a couple of deaths from overdose yet Ireland's courts would come down harder on people for blaming the promoter on the internet than they would on the people doing the stabbing/ drug selling. Absolutely boggles the mind. The libel laws in this country are a complete joke.

Just to exercise my right to free speech: MCD IS A JOKE

If you have a problem with a mod note, take it to PM or Feedback. Don't derail the thread.

Just to add, you don't have free speech on Boards.

AnonoBoy

Monty Burnz wrote: »

OK, in that case you are arguing that my position is incorrect and that when you take any drug there is NO chance that you will do something that makes no logical sense - like stab someone. I think you will find your argument is wrong.

No I'm not saying that.

But you're singling out violent actions. There's also a chance that someone will sit on the ground and sing a song after taking drugs (be it alcohol, weed or whatever).

Drugs don't always lead to violence. And yes they impede the thought process but so does lack of sleep.

So by that logic you could say that every time you don't get a good night's sleep there's a chance you will do something that makes no logical sense - like stab someone.

flyswatter

Its hilarious how MCD refer to stabbings as unsociable behaviour in their official press statement.

hatrickpatrick

coolhandluke wrote: »

Anybody see the way this is going ?, MCD's fault, Security's fault, Gardais fault......

What about the people who got so blind drunk, they couldn't look after themselves ?

What about the people who got out of their heads, they couldn't function ?

What about the people who physically assaulted other people ?

What about the people who stabbed other people ?

Welcome to ireland, 2012......all rights no responsibility.

Nobody's excusing the scumbags for being scumbags, but the people who organize these things, police them and "secure" them should anticipate such undesirables and take appropriate action.

Your remark is like suggesting one cannot criticize airport security for failing to catch a bomber, because it's the bomber's fault. Of course it is, but a bomber is a bomber and security are supposed to prevent him getting anywhere near the plane.

hatrickpatrick

drquirky wrote: »

Love how a gig can have 9 stabbings and a couple of deaths from overdose yet Ireland's courts would come down harder on people for blaming the promoter on the internet than they would on the people doing the stabbing/ drug selling. Absolutely boggles the mind. The libel laws in this country are a complete joke.

I agree, but it's not Boards' fault. Not sure if you're here long enough to remember, but the utter drama which erupted after Oxegen 2006 was absolutely amazing. You couldn't discuss any event hosted by MCD which included so many absolutely massive gigs, even the U2 concerts were off limits for a while.

That's the internet for you. The law needs to keep its arse out of what people write and it certainly needs to respect that a service provider like Boards isn't responsible for its users posts, but unfortunately this is not currently the case. :mad:

Just don't blame Boards for not wanting to get sued again...

Sala

I don't think you can argue that drugs caused a person to be violent, if that person brought a knife with them to a concert. The type of person who carries a knife in case they want to stab someone is the type of person who is predisposed to violence. I would be much more afraid of a sober person who carries a knife than a unarmed stoned one.

Laneyh

Higher wrote: »

So why were there so much scum at that gig compared to other similar gigs in Europe?

Because in other country the scum from socially deprived areas are literally struggling to survive and could never afford to go to such a gig. In Ireland they can not only afford to go, but buy crates of beer and a **** load of drugs all on the tax payers money.

Maybe anyone who commits an offence while on social welfare should be cut off? My work facebook is full of lads who are talking about the gig on Saturday and most of them are unemployed. How can they afford to fork out over 100euros (tickets,alcohol,drugs) on one day?

Yes that is probably partly the case but many of them would be supplementing their dole with illegal activities.Cutting them off would possibly just create more crime. However, if there was a way of paying in food vouchers or something instead of cash that would be handy - doubt that you could do that though in reality
They could implement curfews,make people sign at the dole office or Garda station every day and just generally make things a bit more awkward for people.
However, hearing stories of gardai using their own phones and cars etc. doesn't inspire confidence that they have the resource to roll out any new initiative

Zero tolerance at pubs,nightclubs and events with support from the gardai would help somewhat. There would be some ugly scenes to begin with but maybe eventually the scum element would get the message and stay away

sarabroderick

Welcome to ireland, 2012......all rights no responsibility.

Nail on the head right there

hatrickpatrick

AnonoBoy wrote: »

No I'm not saying that.

But you're singling out violent actions. There's also a chance that someone will sit on the ground and sing a song after taking drugs (be it alcohol, weed or whatever).

Drugs don't always lead to violence. And yes they impede the thought process but so does lack of sleep.

So by that logic you could say that every time you don't get a good night's sleep there's a chance you will do something that makes no logical sense - like stab someone.

Agreed. If you stab someone while on drugs it means you already had violent tendencies, the drugs simply bring it out of you.

Those with violent tendencies ("scumbags" as people in this thread are referring to them) are not difficult to spot, because IN GENERAL, they will be "known to the Gardai" for one reason or another already, and very possibly have previous offenses on their record.

Once again the question is, why was anyone allowed into the venue with glass bottles or with knives? Both are potential weapons. Drink inside the venue could be served in non lethal containers.

The UCD Ball this year had I think 8,000 people at it, or 6,000? There was no problem about security searching people on the way in to make sure they weren't bringing any sh!te in with them. And there were no stabbings at it. They had an entire STAGE devoted to techno / dance music (the other stage was for live acts), so you can't say the genre leads to violence.

If you remove the potential for stabbings (the presence of weapons in a venue, for example), then stabbings cannot occur.

Dyr

Higher wrote: »

SMy work facebook is full of lads who are talking about the gig on Saturday and most of them are unemployed. How can they afford to fork out over 100euros (tickets,alcohol,drugs) on one day?

whats someone who's supposed to be working doing on facebuke?

I am pie

connundrum wrote: »

Parts of solution (with the main part being that everyone take individual responsibility for their actions):

1) More security, more training for security stewards, more policing.
This is easy to say i.e. throw more money at a problem, but I have worked at dozens of gigs where there was not enough security to handle the problems that arose AND sometimes when there was enough security presence - half of the staff didn't have training/experience in dealing with violence/drunks/proper searches etc.

At one of the Oxegen gigs I was working at, half of my team (6 guys) just walked away from the job after a few hours standing in the rain. This issue replicated itself year after year to a lesser or greater degree.

2) A drunk tank. Fuck the liberals. If you are drunk to the point where you're a danger to yourself or others, then you should be taken to a central point, put in a cell/room for 10-12 hours, allowed to sober up and then fined €100. Why not?

This worked really well in Poland when we were there for the Euro Championships. All of the guys that were with me were very aware that the drunk tank existed and that if they went overboard - there was a consequence. At the moment it feels like there is no consequence to the bad behaviour displayed by those who get out of hand.

Current Legislation:



3) A 'field' A&E Department - set up excusively to deal with drunk/drug related injuries/medical issues. This won't help solve the problem, but it will take the pressure off of our hospital A&E Departments who are trying to deal with 'real' medical issues.

Again, those taken to the 'field' A&E could be arbitrarily charged a fee for their stay etc.

I'd be very worried that a field A&E wasn't in place, should be mandatory and might well have saved some lives at the weekend.

A drunk tank theoretically is a great idea, but in practice could inflame a situation. Imagine trying to cart off some of those maggots at the weekend to a drunktank, there would have been a mini riot.

I just don't understand why getting ****ed up is as such a big deal in and of itself for most people. When I was in my teens yeah, I got absolutely off my head at plenty of gigs and parties etc. and the most harm I caused to anyone was when I got sunburnt at a gig at the RDS. Most of my mates to a lesser degree would fairly regularly get close to black-out drunk and not do anything to anyone.

AnonoBoy

Hey someone just deleted a post saying YSCOHB.

What's that stand for?

davet82

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Hey someone just deleted a post saying YSCOHB.

What's that stand for?

i was afraid to ask because i didnt want to appear stupid :pac:

AnonoBoy

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Hey someone just deleted a post saying YSCOHB.

What's that stand for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqrop_5O-OA

mikom

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Hey someone just deleted a post saying YSCOHB.

What's that stand for?

Hollywood Blvd........

Higher

The guards are simply not respected in this country.

Give me one police force in the world that would tolerate one of their biggest police stations being pissed on EVERY NIGHT. (im referring to Harcout garda station)


There were thousands of people publicly drinking yesterday in Phoenix Park. Why weren't they challenged by Garda?

How is it possible that a lad can go on a 5 hour stabbing frenzy?

smokedeels

Old_-_School wrote: »

MCD have security people searching people coming in to prevent people bringing in their own booze so that MCD can make more profit from inflated drink prices inside.
If they happen to find a weapon, they'll confiscate it but that's not their primary concern.
Of course if MCD operated a knife shop inside the venue, you can be sure they'd find every weapon going.

Are MCD's security really capable of disarming nutjobs at the door?

mikom

Higher wrote: »

How is it possible that a lad can go on a 5 hour stabbing frenzy?

He had a good breakfast?

Sala

I presume they only search peoples bags? Is there any process in place to identify people who have weapons tucked into a sock, such as metal detectors? Seems a bit extreme but after this it may be neccessary

I am pie

Deleted User wrote: »

I just don't understand why getting ****ed up is as such a big deal in and of itself for most people. When I was in my teens yeah, I got absolutely off my head at plenty of gigs and parties etc. and the most harm I caused to anyone was when I got sunburnt at a gig at the RDS. Most of my mates to a lesser degree would fairly regularly get close to black-out drunk and not do anything to anyone.

How do they get home? If they are nearly blacked out then how are they in control of any of their actions? Hopefully none of them are girls !!! What happens if they fell in a river / canal ? What happens if they stumble out in front of a car?...or fall down some steps? If they black out, do you think it's OK that the health services have to provide assistance or an ambulance to deal with their pathetic behaviour ? Is it ok that some poor fcker working in a bar / club has to clean up after them ?

99 times out of a 100 it's grand, them someone ends up in hospital or worse.

Sounds like your mates have a lot of growing up to do.

robbie02

they should do what they did with london 'riots', severe convictions for all involved in these incidents, absolute scum ruining it for everyone else and MCD should be held responsible too, very poor security. i dont think i ll ever go to an outdoor concert again because they are not safe no matter what you do or how you prepare for the day. indoor gigs all the way now

TheGoldenAges

Sala wrote: »

I presume they only search peoples bags? Is there any process in place to identify people who have weapons tucked into a sock, such as metal detectors? Seems a bit extreme but after this it may be neccessary

They checked my bag, although not thoroughly and had a metal beeper in their hands which they used on me, so where people get this idea of no personnel at the entrances is beyond me.
Also of the thousands that went in there were always going to be a few who smuggled items in, just the law of probability I guess...

leftleg

Motorist

connundrum wrote: »

Parts of solution (with the main part being that everyone take individual responsibility for their actions):

1) More security, more training for security stewards, more policing.
This is easy to say i.e. throw more money at a problem, but I have worked at dozens of gigs where there was not enough security to handle the problems that arose AND sometimes when there was enough security presence - half of the staff didn't have training/experience in dealing with violence/drunks/proper searches etc.

At one of the Oxegen gigs I was working at, half of my team (6 guys) just walked away from the job after a few hours standing in the rain. This issue replicated itself year after year to a lesser or greater degree.

2) A drunk tank. Fuck the liberals. If you are drunk to the point where you're a danger to yourself or others, then you should be taken to a central point, put in a cell/room for 10-12 hours, allowed to sober up and then fined €100. Why not?

This worked really well in Poland when we were there for the Euro Championships. All of the guys that were with me were very aware that the drunk tank existed and that if they went overboard - there was a consequence. At the moment it feels like there is no consequence to the bad behaviour displayed by those who get out of hand.no

Current Legislation:

Disorderly conduct in a public place

This offence is concerned with what is described as “offensive conduct”.

Section 5(i) of the Criminal Justice (Public Order) Act 1994 makes it an offence for anyone in a public place to engage in offensive conduct:

Between the hours of 12 o’clock midnight and 7 o’clock in the morning next following; or
At any time, after having been requested by a member of An Garda Siochana to desist.

Offensive conduct is unreasonable behaviour which (having regard to the circumstances), is likely to cause serious offence or serious annoyance to other people. The penalty for this offence is a class D fine.

The purpose of this offence was to deal with the types of disorderly behaviour which falls short of threatening behaviour but could nevertheless adversely affect the quality of people’s lives. A typical example of this offence would be people shouting late at night having left nightclubs where this would cause serious annoyance to local residents.

Section 23A has been inserted in the Act by Section 184 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 and allows the Gardai to impose a fixed charge fine for disorderly conduct in a public place instead of court proceedings for this offence. In order to have the offence treated as a fixed charge offence, you must give your name and address to the Garda. Failure to do so means you may arrested without warrant and be convicted of a summary offence for which the maximum penalty is a class C fine. If the Gardai choose to have this offence treated as a fixed-charge offence, they may serve notice on you that you will not be charged if a stated amount is paid within 28 days. The amount of the fixed charge, currently €140, is set by Regulations.

3) A 'field' A&E Department - set up excusively to deal with drunk/drug related injuries/medical issues. This won't help solve the problem, but it will take the pressure off of our hospital A&E Departments who are trying to deal with 'real' medical issues.

Again, those taken to the 'field' A&E could be arbitrarily charged a fee for their stay etc.

I would rather go to a proper a and e with access to qualified doctors and all necessary medical diagnostic and treatment equipment, esp considering both were 10 minute drives from the venue.