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Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

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    #1982
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    And many of them have made no contributions. They also get free GP visits as well.








    We have always had people like that, even during 'full employment' times.

    I'm talking about people who, through no fault of their own, have lost their jobs since this recession started.

    Chucky, I hope you never have the misfortune of losing your job or being on the breadline.


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    #1983
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    And many of them have made no contributions. They also get free GP visits as well. Waste collection is also free. Also our VAT rate is 7th highest in Europe.



    Who are these unemployed people who get no money? :confused:




    If ends meet is not being able to afford a few nights out a week then that probably is the case.

    Waste collection is NOT free to SW recipients, yet another myth


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    #1984
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    K-9 wrote: »
    Hardly trolling. SW rates are ring fenced by Labour under the agreement for Government, income tax rates by FG.

    SW is directly related to the cost of living. Maybe direct your attention to the following 5 words, Mick Wallace, Sean Quinn etc.


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    #1985
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    We have always had people like that, even during 'full employment' times.

    I'm talking about people who, through no fault of their own, have lost their jobs since this recession started.

    Chucky, I hope you never have the misfortune of losing your job or being on the breadline.


    How do you know I am not on the breadline? Pretty lol assumption there tbh.
    mishkalucy wrote: »
    Waste collection is NOT free to SW recipients, yet another myth


    Where is it not free? It is if you live in Fingal.


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    #1986
    EURATS
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭EURATS


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    EURATS wrote: »
    Considering the cost of living in this place, I'd say the poor unfortunates on the dole(ie most of them) find it hard to make ends meet.


    If ends meet is not being able to afford a few nights out a week then that probably is the case.

    A few nights out a week on €188? I take it u consider a trip to McDonald's as a night out!! Classy stuff!!!


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    #1987
    Smidge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,541 ✭✭✭Smidge


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    How do you know I am not on the breadline? Pretty lol assumption there tbh.




    Where is it not free? It is if you live in Fingal.


    There was a waiver in Fingal, long gone.

    It was the only place that had a waiver btw, everyone else in the entire country who was in receipt of SW has always had to pay for their bins.


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    #1988
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    EURATS wrote: »
    A few nights out a week on €188? I take it u consider a trip to McDonald's as a night out!! Classy stuff!!!

    lol, this sums it up perfectly. Looking down your nose at people because of the venue they eat at while moaning about austerity, just brilliant. :pac:
    mishkalucy wrote: »
    [/B]

    There was a waiver in Fingal, long gone.

    It was the only place that had a waiver btw, everyone else in the entire country who was in receipt of SW has always had to pay for their bins.


    Fair enough. They should really update their websites.


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    #1989
    EURATS
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭EURATS


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    EURATS wrote: »
    A few nights out a week on €188? I take it u consider a trip to McDonald's as a night out.

    Jaysus..u read a bit too much into that one. I was talking from a price perspective. Hold your horses before jumping to conclusions!


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    #1990
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    EURATS wrote: »
    Jaysus..u read a bit too much into that one. I was talking from a price perspective. Hold your horses before jumping to conclusions!


    What do you mean price perspective?


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    #1991
    EURATS
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭EURATS


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    EURATS wrote: »
    Jaysus..u read a bit too much into that one. I was talking from a price perspective. Hold your horses before jumping to conclusions!


    What do you mean price perspective?

    I mean that if u had €188 a week to spend, then after u have paid for all your basic expenses, you wouldn't have much left to pįss up against the wall


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    #1992
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    SW is directly related to the cost of living.

    In an ideal world. These days when we are spending over €20 Billion on SW and taking in €35 Billion in taxes that is an ideal, especially when people like yourself moan about a household charge.
    Maybe direct your attention to the following 5 words, Mick Wallace, Sean Quinn etc.

    Yeah, they've taken my attention. "Look, squirrel".

    And?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #1993
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    EURATS wrote: »
    I mean that if u had €188 a week to spend, then after u have paid for all your basic expenses, you wouldn't have much left to pįss up against the wall


    Well obviously not, it's social welfare. It's meant to buy you the basics, not give you a great standard of living. This fact seems to by-pass a huge number of people. Buying the basics and living within your means seems to be peoples definition of austerity.


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    #1994
    EURATS
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭EURATS


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    EURATS wrote: »
    I mean that if u had €188 a week to spend, then after u have paid for all your basic expenses, you wouldn't have much left to pįss up against the wall


    Well obviously not, it's social welfare. It's meant to buy you the basics, not give you a great standard of living. This fact seems to by-pass a huge number of people. Buying the basics and living within your means seems to be peoples definition of austerity.


    Yawn...Were u not saying that they get too much a few minutes ago?


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    #1995
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Mick Wallace

    Indeed, shown up for the fake he is yesterday.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #1996
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    EURATS wrote: »
    Yawn...Were u not saying that they get too much a few minutes ago?


    Of course they do. Because they can afford those nights out. They've just done those nights out cheaper, like slumming it in McDonalds. However you claimed they can barely make ends meet.


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    #1997
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    K-9 wrote: »
    In an ideal world. These days when we are spending over €20 Billion on SW and taking in €35 Billion in taxes that is an ideal, especially when people like yourself moan about a household charge.

    The typical Fine Gael/Fianna Fail rationale.:rolleyes:
    Yeah, they've taken my attention. "Look, squirrel".

    And?

    It's called getting your priorities right. But how would you do that when your rationale tells you that those on the lower end of the scale are bottom feeding scum out to fiddle the state at every oppurtunity.
    'Another pay rise their Enda? Please put your expenses sheet in the IN tray, just think of a number and multiply it!

    And BTW, my point about SW was; the reason it would seem high to our European counterparts is that they are taking into account that the cost of living and taxes here is much higher. It is linked to the cost of living in the real world.


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    #1998
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Of course they do. Because they can afford those nights out. They've just done those nights out cheaper, like slumming it in McDonalds. However you claimed they can barely make ends meet.

    Grabbing a happy meal in mcdonalds is a 'night out'?

    Stop trolling, it's against the forum charter!


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    #1999
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And BTW, my point about SW was; the reason it would seem high to our European counterparts is that they are taking into account that the cost of living and taxes here is much higher. It is linked to the cost of living in the real world.
    You're joking surely? It's got feck all to do with "seems high", it is high. Compare us to the UK SW payments. They average around 60 sterling. Are you trying to tell us that the UK's cost of living is 50 odd % higher than ours?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #2000
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Wibbs wrote: »
    You're joking surely? It's got feck all to do with "seems high", it is high. Compare us to the UK SW payments. They average around 60 sterling. Are you trying to tell us that the UK's cost of living is 50 odd % higher than ours?

    Everyone who's lucky enough to be working here ask yourselves this, could you live on €188 per week?


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    #2001
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Wibbs wrote: »
    You're joking surely? It's got feck all to do with "seems high", it is high. Compare us to the UK SW payments. They average around 60 sterling. Are you trying to tell us that the UK's cost of living is 50 odd % higher than ours?

    :rolleyes: Look beyond the money. Look what they are entitled to on top of the payment, look at how regulated their living conditions are in comparison to here. Look at the protected pariah landlords of the ruling class who are allowed to exploit here. Look at the re-training and training structures over there.....FAS? :D:D I could go on and on.
    The point is, the poor have taken enough austerity here, it's high time a fair tax take was arrived at, and the lipservice indulged by the elites, stopped.


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    #2002
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Everyone who's lucky enough to be working here ask yourselves this, could you live on €188 per week?
    Yes. Have done in the past when times were tough. Even though because I wasn't on the dole I didn't have other entitlements.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    :rolleyes: Look beyond the money. Look what they are entitled to on top of the payment,
    Are you saying people on SW here don't have other entitlements? Rent allowance here is again far higher than in the UK(one reason rents are so high at times). Children's allowance and one off payments are again higher here than in the UK.
    look at how regulated their living conditions are in comparison to here.
    It seems your grasp of the facts is tenuous at times. I would suggest you look at the actual differences rather than trot out the usual suppositions.
    Look at the protected pariah landlords of the ruling class who are allowed to exploit here
    Here we go folks... Good god, when I read the words "ruling class" I know what I'm dealing with... Do you actually know any landlords? I've known a few in my time and all but one I can recall were working class people. Precious few D4 types. Two came from nothing in the arse end of the bog. One old guy actually had pigs in the kitchen growing up. "Ruling class" my arse.
    The point is, the poor have taken enough austerity here, it's high time a fair tax take was arrived at, and the lipservice indulged by the elites, stopped.
    In other words "tax the rich" stuff again. Brilliant. What it actually means is tax those actual working class people, who you know... work.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #2003
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Yes. Have done in the past when times were tough. Even though because I wasn't on the dole I didn't have other entitlements.

    Are you saying people on SW here don't have other entitlements? Rent allowance here is again far higher than in the UK(one reason rents are so high at times). Children's allowance and one off payments are again higher here than in the UK. It seems your grasp of the facts is tenuous at times. I would suggest you look at the actual differences rather than trot out the usual suppositions. Here we go folks... Good god, when I read the words "ruling class" I know what I'm dealing with... Do you actually know any landlords? I've known a few in my time and all but one I can recall were working class people. Precious few D4 types. Two came from nothing in the arse end of the bog. One old guy actually had pigs in the kitchen growing up. "Ruling class" my arse.

    In other words "tax the rich" stuff again. Brilliant. What it actually means is tax those actual working class people, who you know... work.

    Tax those with the wealth first. Then you can call the system fair.

    They are members of the ruling class when their exploits exploit those worse off than themselves, what else are they members of? It's very simple.


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    #2004
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    it is not wise to compare to the uk, or anywhere else....unless a like for like situation is compared....

    the uk are trying to cap the limit on benifits to £25,000...that is equivelent to £35,000 earned after stoppages......


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    #2005
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Tax those with the wealth first. Then you can call the system fair.
    Define wealth?

    Here we go...
    They are members of the ruling class when their exploits exploit those worse off than themselves, what else are they members of? It's very simple.
    So any employer, landlord, any one who had get up and go and got up and went and built a business, large or small? Where do you draw this imaginary line? How do you define "exploit"? That should be good The left are truly beyond the pale on this score and god help us if these ever get in.
    golden lane wrote:
    the uk are trying to cap the limit on benifits to £25,000...that is equivelent to £35,000 earned after stoppages......
    Indeed they are, for entire families. They're also taxed on those payments

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #2006
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    And BTW, my point about SW was; the reason it would seem high to our European counterparts is that they are taking into account that the cost of living and taxes here is much higher. It is linked to the cost of living in the real world.


    Cost of living is nearly double of every other European country. Not to mention most European countries cut there welfare after a length of time.
    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Grabbing a happy meal in mcdonalds is a 'night out'?

    Stop trolling, it's against the forum charter!


    When I was a kid going to McDonalds was seen as a great treat. Times have obviously changed now and a trip to McDonalds is seen as deep austerity. :rolleyes: Such a shame SW payments don't cover trips to fancy restaurants. I've no idea how these people survive without a weekly fill of expensive steak.


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    #2007
    EURATS
    Registered Users Posts: 528 ✭✭✭EURATS


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    EURATS wrote: »
    Yawn...Were u not saying that they get too much a few minutes ago?


    Of course they do. Because they can afford those nights out. They've just done those nights out cheaper, like slumming it in McDonalds. However you claimed they can barely make ends meet.


    Good old chucky the tree troll...I doubt they can afford many nights out, if any.


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    #2008
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Define wealth?

    Here we go...
    So any employer, landlord, any one who had get up and go and got up and went and built a business, large or small? Where do you draw this imaginary line? How do you define "exploit"? That should be good The left are truly beyond the pale on this score and god help us if these ever get in.

    Indeed they are, for entire families. They're also taxed on those payments

    there is no tax on benifits in the uk.......

    i am a pensioner...i get a state pension every four weeks.....just have a guess how much i get.....i am sure you are informed about uk state pensioners...


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    #2009
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Next person to accuse another of being a troll gets a couple fo days off. If you've a problem with a post, then report it


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    #2010
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    EURATS wrote: »
    Good old chucky the tree troll...I doubt they can afford many nights out, if any.


    They probably don't want to even go to Mcdonalds for a treat as they'll just have you and Gerryo looking down your nose at them either.


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    #2011
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Cost of living is nearly double of every other European country. Not to mention most European countries cut there welfare after a length of time.




    When I was a kid going to McDonalds was seen as a great treat. Times have obviously changed now and a trip to McDonalds is seen as deep austerity. :rolleyes: Such a shame SW payments don't cover trips to fancy restaurants. I've no idea how these people survive without a weekly fill of expensive steak.



    While your at it then, will you attack, with the same venom, our overpaid (compared to the rest of europe), pampered, insulated from the recession, still getting pay rises, bonuses and extra allowances, PS/CS class whose sense of entitlement is far worse than anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves out of a job?


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