Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

SEPT 23 1989 · 06-06-2012 5:51pm

Why won't Kenny tell us the details of what was discussed with Merkel?

steve9859 · 06-06-2012 6:03pm

smash wrote: »

On the radio there a head guy in the ECB said we should be complimented for our yes vote but it in no way entitles us to any write off of debt or negotiations on it.

The message was vote yes for better treatment from Europe - lower interest rates and haircuts. I said at the time I thought that a yes would mean that the opposite would happen....that we would then be forgotten about by Europe as we had no more negotiating power, and had given up the ability to play hardball. And lo and behold......

Chips Lovell · 06-06-2012 6:06pm

I thought we were voting on the fiscal treaty, not interest rates?

steve9859 · 06-06-2012 6:12pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

I thought we were voting on the fiscal treaty, not interest rates?

yes we were....and it was claimed that interest rates would be lower if we voted yes, and that our hand would be strengthened with regard to a haircut on the bank debt. It was clear that Enda believed that a yes would strengthen our negotiating power....and he was clearly very wrong. Merkel hasn't even bothered to be subtle in her rejection. It was a staring contest, and Ireland blinked first....

Chips Lovell · 06-06-2012 6:18pm

It would certainly strengthen our hand, but I think anyone who believed that voting yes would automatically lead to a rate cut would have been a bit naive.

dvpower · 06-06-2012 6:21pm

steve9859 wrote: »

yes we were....and it was claimed that interest rates would be lower if we voted yes

It was claimed that interest rates on our current debt would be lower? By who?

Bullseye1 · 06-06-2012 6:27pm

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

It would certainly strengthen our hand, but I think anyone who believed that voting yes would automatically lead to a rate cut would have been a bit naive.

I voted yes because I want our government to be held to account on what they spend.

But I don't agree with the above because we live in Ireland and our politicians have neither the intelligence or backbone to take on the EU/ECB.

erkifino · 06-06-2012 6:42pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I voted yes because I want our government to be held to account on what they spend.

Is it the Government or the country that will be held accountable?

the groutch · 06-06-2012 7:01pm

Fenian Army wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0605/ecb-may-cut-rates-soon-as-euro-zone-crisis-deepens.html

Good stuff :rolleyes:

the new "Vote Yes For Jobs"

dvpower · 06-06-2012 7:19pm

the groutch wrote: »

the new "Vote Yes For Jobs"

Leave Bosco out of this.

steddyeddy · 06-06-2012 7:48pm

In my opinion Irelands heading for a bigger crisis and that is the exodus of some of the big pharma plants from Ireland.

Scofflaw · 07-06-2012 1:10am

smash wrote: »

On the radio there a head guy in the ECB said we should be complimented for our yes vote but it in no way entitles us to any write off of debt or negotiations on it.

And a No vote the same. There was no veto, so there was no "hardball" to be played.

Look at it from the point of view of the rest of the European governments - if Ireland said No, and got a bribe to vote Yes, every other government would have to follow suit and bribe their parliaments.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Grimreaper666 · 07-06-2012 1:16am

And you think it's bad now? We ain't seen nothing yet. There's some serious ****e coming down the line that nobody could have seen coming, we're just in free fall now, just wait for the crash!!:eek:

K-9 · 07-06-2012 1:33am

steddyeddy wrote: »

In my opinion Irelands heading for a bigger crisis and that is the exodus of some of the big pharma plants from Ireland.

A lot of the drug patents will be up soon. What that has to do with the Treaty I'm not sure.

steddyeddy · 07-06-2012 2:21am

The lipitor patent has already opened up and the generic drugs are free to copy the formula. Sales have already dropped significantly. The pharma industry is our most important industry imho. If we lose that the fiscal treaty becomes irrelevant to us as I think it already is.

Happyman42 · 07-06-2012 10:52am

Scofflaw wrote: »

And a No vote the same. There was no veto, so there was no "hardball" to be played.

Look at it from the point of view of the rest of the European governments - if Ireland said No, and got a bribe to vote Yes, every other government would have to follow suit and bribe their parliaments.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Any chance you could come out from behind the 'Treaty' and assess the situation politically or even honestly?:rolleyes:
It's beyond a doubt that the Yes vote has re-inforced the notion in Berlin and now Brussels that the Irish are ok with austerity.
I suspect that is why Enda is being so tightlipped about what Angela actually said.

Scofflaw · 07-06-2012 11:48am

Happyman42 wrote: »

Any chance you could come out from behind the 'Treaty' and assess the situation politically or even honestly?:rolleyes:
It's beyond a doubt that the Yes vote has re-inforced the notion in Berlin and now Brussels that the Irish are ok with austerity.
I suspect that is why Enda is being so tightlipped about what Angela actually said.

That is my honest assessment of the situation - A No vote had no particular advantage, because it wasn't a blocking vote. The other EU countries would just have said "well, they'll ratify when it becomes more obvious they need the money", which I think is very much the case.

All the "hardball" talk is just that - talk. This Treaty never offered an opportunity to renegotiate bank debt, and anyone who claimed it did was either wrong or lying, whichever side they were on.

cordially,
Scofflaw

EURATS · 07-06-2012 12:11pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

Happyman42 wrote: »

Any chance you could come out from behind the 'Treaty' and assess the situation politically or even honestly?:rolleyes:
It's beyond a doubt that the Yes vote has re-inforced the notion in Berlin and now Brussels that the Irish are ok with austerity.
I suspect that is why Enda is being so tightlipped about what Angela actually said.

That is my honest assessment of the situation - A No vote had no particular advantage, because it wasn't a blocking vote. The other EU countries would just have said "well, they'll ratify when it becomes more obvious they need the money", which I think is very much the case.

All the "hardball" talk is just that - talk. This Treaty never offered an opportunity to renegotiate bank debt, and anyone who claimed it did was either wrong or lying, whichever side they were on.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well I set up a thread EU = FU? (in AH), which was a genuine question. 14 posts in 14 mins and boards sharply shut it down. Excuse was it belonged in the EU section, knowing it would be shut down there because of the FU part.
Censorship without doubt.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056662842?page=1#post_79070185

Happyman42 · 07-06-2012 12:24pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

That is my honest assessment of the situation - A No vote had no particular advantage, because it wasn't a blocking vote. The other EU countries would just have said "well, they'll ratify when it becomes more obvious they need the money", which I think is very much the case.

All the "hardball" talk is just that - talk. This Treaty never offered an opportunity to renegotiate bank debt, and anyone who claimed it did was either wrong or lying, whichever side they were on.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Yes, yes....but answer the question Scofflaw, has the Yes vote re-inforced anything in Europe. Base your interpretation on statements coming out of Europe please.

Pat Rabitte now trying to spin the Spanish reaction as something they learned from us is laughable considering how they rolled over since, we should have played hardball long before this treaty was put to us.

07-06-2012 1:34pm

EURATS wrote: »

Well I set up a thread EU = FU? (in AH), which was a genuine question. 14 posts in 14 mins and boards sharply shut it down. Excuse was it belonged in the EU section, knowing it would be shut down there because of the FU part.
Censorship without doubt.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056662842?page=1#post_79070185

I don't know, my FU sig remained uncensored!

Scofflaw · 07-06-2012 2:46pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Yes, yes....but answer the question Scofflaw, has the Yes vote re-inforced anything in Europe. Base your interpretation on statements coming out of Europe please.

It seems to have reinforced Ireland's commitment to Europe and European solutions. I'm not sure what you're looking for here, at least from me, because my arguments for the Treaty were/are based only on what's in the Treaty, not on what other effects it might or might be claimed to have.

Happyman42 wrote: »

Pat Rabitte now trying to spin the Spanish reaction as something they learned from us is laughable considering how they rolled over since, we should have played hardball long before this treaty was put to us.

I can see that there is, in your mind, no way of getting anything in negotiations other than by "playing hardball", and by doing so at every turn of the road. I don't really agree, and on top of that I think the opportunities for "playing hardball" have been massively exaggerated.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw · 07-06-2012 3:15pm

EURATS wrote: »

Well I set up a thread EU = FU? (in AH), which was a genuine question. 14 posts in 14 mins and boards sharply shut it down. Excuse was it belonged in the EU section, knowing it would be shut down there because of the FU part.
Censorship without doubt.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056662842?page=1#post_79070185

That's not really my business, since it's about moderation in AH, where I have no official standing whatsoever. However, it might be worth pointing out that nearly all the comments on that thread that weren't by you were comments on what a poor thread it was.

cordially,
Scofflaw

EURATS · 07-06-2012 3:50pm

Scofflaw wrote: »

EURATS wrote: »

Well I set up a thread EU = FU? (in AH), which was a genuine question. 14 posts in 14 mins and boards sharply shut it down. Excuse was it belonged in the EU section, knowing it would be shut down there because of the FU part.
Censorship without doubt.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2056662842?page=1#post_79070185

That's not really my business, since it's about moderation in AH, where I have no official standing whatsoever. However, it might be worth pointing out that nearly all the comments on that thread that weren't by you were comments on what a poor thread it was.

cordially,
Scofflaw

One comment on it being a "poor" thread. That hardly equates all!!

cbyrd · 07-06-2012 4:03pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18350977

I'm thinking slippery slope..

squod · 07-06-2012 4:11pm

cbyrd wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18350977

I'm thinking slippery slope..

Meh. I can no longer give a toss. The more I argue with people over stuff like this the more they resist.

* In other news some lad on talk to Joe earlier said he voted yes on the fiscal treaty for his grand kids. What a cnut.

EURATS · 07-06-2012 4:27pm

squod wrote: »

cbyrd wrote: »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18350977

I'm thinking slippery slope..

Meh. I can no longer give a toss. The more I argue with people over stuff like this the more they resist.

* In other news some lad on talk to Joe earlier said he voted yes on the fiscal treaty for his grand kids. What a cnut.

Would have to agree with u. The minute anyone condemns the EU, they get cornered by mods looking to "correct their perspective", have their threads closed or get irrational bans and penalties.
Boards.ie does have an agenda. Is by no means impartial!!

dvpower · 07-06-2012 5:08pm

EURATS wrote: »

Would have to agree with u. The minute anyone condemns the EU, they get cornered by mods looking to "correct their perspective", have their threads closed or get irrational bans and penalties.
Boards.ie does have an agenda. Is by no means impartial!!

Why do I get the feeling that this is going to be a self fulfilling prophecy?

humanji · 07-06-2012 5:40pm

If you've a problem with moderation, take it up with the forum moderators by PM or on the Helpdesk. Keep to the thread topic here.

gerryo777 · 07-06-2012 6:22pm

Back to the yes sides slogans about yes for jobs and stability.

The unemployment rate is now 14.8% and growing and the number of people employed is down 1% to 1.78 million.

The Spanish banks are in the ****, the Greek politicians are boxing each other on live debates and there is a possibility the euro could implode, it's getting weaker and weaker by the day against the dollar.

WHERE ARE THE JOBS & WHERE IS THE STABILITY?

ANYONE????

EURATS · 07-06-2012 6:29pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

Back to the yes sides slogans about yes for jobs and stability.

The unemployment rate is now 14.8% and growing and the number of people employed is down 1% to 1.78 million.

The Spanish banks are in the ****, the Greek politicians are boxing each other on live debates and there is a possibility the euro could implode, it's getting weaker and weaker by the day against the dollar.

WHERE ARE THE JOBS & WHERE IS THE STABILITY?

ANYONE????

What u say looks like it's on the cards alright.
In relation to jobs and stability..enda and co have jobs, and those jobs are stable along with their rate of pay.

Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

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