Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

Wibbs · 08-06-2012 9:16am

gerryo777 wrote: »

Everyone who's lucky enough to be working here ask yourselves this, could you live on €188 per week?

Yes. Have done in the past when times were tough. Even though because I wasn't on the dole I didn't have other entitlements.

Happyman42 wrote: »

:rolleyes: Look beyond the money. Look what they are entitled to on top of the payment,

Are you saying people on SW here don't have other entitlements? Rent allowance here is again far higher than in the UK(one reason rents are so high at times). Children's allowance and one off payments are again higher here than in the UK.

look at how regulated their living conditions are in comparison to here.

It seems your grasp of the facts is tenuous at times. I would suggest you look at the actual differences rather than trot out the usual suppositions.

Look at the protected pariah landlords of the ruling class who are allowed to exploit here

Here we go folks... Good god, when I read the words "ruling class" I know what I'm dealing with... Do you actually know any landlords? I've known a few in my time and all but one I can recall were working class people. Precious few D4 types. Two came from nothing in the arse end of the bog. One old guy actually had pigs in the kitchen growing up. "Ruling class" my arse.

The point is, the poor have taken enough austerity here, it's high time a fair tax take was arrived at, and the lipservice indulged by the elites, stopped.

In other words "tax the rich" stuff again. Brilliant. What it actually means is tax those actual working class people, who you know... work.

Happyman42 · 08-06-2012 9:27am

Wibbs wrote: »

Yes. Have done in the past when times were tough. Even though because I wasn't on the dole I didn't have other entitlements.

Are you saying people on SW here don't have other entitlements? Rent allowance here is again far higher than in the UK(one reason rents are so high at times). Children's allowance and one off payments are again higher here than in the UK. It seems your grasp of the facts is tenuous at times. I would suggest you look at the actual differences rather than trot out the usual suppositions. Here we go folks... Good god, when I read the words "ruling class" I know what I'm dealing with... Do you actually know any landlords? I've known a few in my time and all but one I can recall were working class people. Precious few D4 types. Two came from nothing in the arse end of the bog. One old guy actually had pigs in the kitchen growing up. "Ruling class" my arse.

In other words "tax the rich" stuff again. Brilliant. What it actually means is tax those actual working class people, who you know... work.

Tax those with the wealth first. Then you can call the system fair.

They are members of the ruling class when their exploits exploit those worse off than themselves, what else are they members of? It's very simple.

golden lane · 08-06-2012 9:39am

it is not wise to compare to the uk, or anywhere else....unless a like for like situation is compared....

the uk are trying to cap the limit on benifits to £25,000...that is equivelent to £35,000 earned after stoppages......

Wibbs · 08-06-2012 11:19am

Happyman42 wrote: »

Tax those with the wealth first. Then you can call the system fair.

Define wealth?

Here we go...

They are members of the ruling class when their exploits exploit those worse off than themselves, what else are they members of? It's very simple.

So any employer, landlord, any one who had get up and go and got up and went and built a business, large or small? Where do you draw this imaginary line? How do you define "exploit"? That should be good The left are truly beyond the pale on this score and god help us if these ever get in.

golden lane wrote:

the uk are trying to cap the limit on benifits to £25,000...that is equivelent to £35,000 earned after stoppages......

Indeed they are, for entire families. They're also taxed on those payments

Chucky the tree · 08-06-2012 11:51am

Happyman42 wrote: »

And BTW, my point about SW was; the reason it would seem high to our European counterparts is that they are taking into account that the cost of living and taxes here is much higher. It is linked to the cost of living in the real world.

Cost of living is nearly double of every other European country. Not to mention most European countries cut there welfare after a length of time.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Grabbing a happy meal in mcdonalds is a 'night out'?

Stop trolling, it's against the forum charter!

When I was a kid going to McDonalds was seen as a great treat. Times have obviously changed now and a trip to McDonalds is seen as deep austerity. :rolleyes: Such a shame SW payments don't cover trips to fancy restaurants. I've no idea how these people survive without a weekly fill of expensive steak.

EURATS · 08-06-2012 11:55am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

EURATS wrote: »

Yawn...Were u not saying that they get too much a few minutes ago?

Of course they do. Because they can afford those nights out. They've just done those nights out cheaper, like slumming it in McDonalds. However you claimed they can barely make ends meet.

Good old chucky the tree troll...I doubt they can afford many nights out, if any.

golden lane · 08-06-2012 11:56am

Wibbs wrote: »

Define wealth?

Here we go...
So any employer, landlord, any one who had get up and go and got up and went and built a business, large or small? Where do you draw this imaginary line? How do you define "exploit"? That should be good The left are truly beyond the pale on this score and god help us if these ever get in.

Indeed they are, for entire families. They're also taxed on those payments

there is no tax on benifits in the uk.......

i am a pensioner...i get a state pension every four weeks.....just have a guess how much i get.....i am sure you are informed about uk state pensioners...

humanji · 08-06-2012 12:01pm

Next person to accuse another of being a troll gets a couple fo days off. If you've a problem with a post, then report it

Chucky the tree · 08-06-2012 12:01pm

EURATS wrote: »

Good old chucky the tree troll...I doubt they can afford many nights out, if any.

They probably don't want to even go to Mcdonalds for a treat as they'll just have you and Gerryo looking down your nose at them either.

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 12:06pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Cost of living is nearly double of every other European country. Not to mention most European countries cut there welfare after a length of time.

When I was a kid going to McDonalds was seen as a great treat. Times have obviously changed now and a trip to McDonalds is seen as deep austerity. :rolleyes: Such a shame SW payments don't cover trips to fancy restaurants. I've no idea how these people survive without a weekly fill of expensive steak.

While your at it then, will you attack, with the same venom, our overpaid (compared to the rest of europe), pampered, insulated from the recession, still getting pay rises, bonuses and extra allowances, PS/CS class whose sense of entitlement is far worse than anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves out of a job?

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 12:14pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

They probably don't want to even go to Mcdonalds for a treat as they'll just have you and Gerryo looking down your nose at them either.

Na, I only use the drive through section, couldn't be slumming it with the lower class.:rolleyes:

Chucky the tree · 08-06-2012 12:15pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

While your at it then, will you attack, with the same venom, our overpaid (compared to the rest of europe), pampered, insulated from the recession, still getting pay rises, bonuses and extra allowances, PS/CS class whose sense of entitlement is far worse than anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves out of a job?

I have done before. Don't see the need to do it for every single post I make. I'll also attack the private sector low paid workers who don't get taxed enough as well, they should be paying far more tax then they do.

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 12:22pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I have done before. Don't see the need to do it for every single post I make. I'll also attack the private sector low paid workers who don't get taxed enough as well, they should be paying far more tax then they do.

Here's an idea.

Why doesn't everyone hand over all their wages to noonan & co and we can all get vouchers for the 'essentials' (mcdonalds etc) in return.

Brilliant TED!

Chucky the tree · 08-06-2012 12:32pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

Here's an idea.

Why doesn't everyone hand over all their wages to noonan & co and we can all get vouchers for the 'essentials' (mcdonalds etc) in return.

Brilliant TED!

Here's a better one. Why don't the Government just give people all the money they want so they can buy any and every item they desire. That way no one has to suffer austerity.

Brilliant TED!

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 12:39pm

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Here's a better one. Why don't the Government just give people all the money they want so they can buy any and every item they desire. That way no one has to suffer austerity.

Brilliant TED!

That would cost too much.
I think my idea was better, thank god your not the minister for finance.:D

Muir · 08-06-2012 12:42pm

Just wondering what people think:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/fiscal-union-must-include-common-tax-base-juncker-196608.html

Happyman42 · 08-06-2012 12:47pm

Muir wrote: »

Just wondering what people think:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/fiscal-union-must-include-common-tax-base-juncker-196608.html

Vot ave we done, vot ave we done? :eek:

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 12:49pm

Muir wrote: »

Just wondering what people think:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/fiscal-union-must-include-common-tax-base-juncker-196608.html

When push comes to shove, our low corporation tax rate will disappear as fast as a FG election manifesto promise.

It will then be 'spun' to suggest that it's better to have a 'universal CT rate', better for stability and better for jobs.

Same bull****e politicians, same bull****e rhetoric!

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 12:53pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Vot ave we done, vot ave we done? :eek:

Eventually, merkel will have what hitler coundn't have.......... full control of europe.

golden lane · 08-06-2012 12:54pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

When push comes to shove, our low corporation tax rate will disappear as fast as a FG election manifesto promise.

It will then be 'spun' to suggest that it's better to have a 'universal CT rate', better for stability and better for jobs.

Same bull****e politicians, same bull****e rhetoric!

irelands low corporation tax......is a big part of it's downfall.......

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 12:55pm

golden lane wrote: »

irelands low corporation tax......is a big part of it's downfall.......

Expand please...

Chips Lovell · 08-06-2012 12:55pm

Common, consolidated corporate tax base is not the same thing as harmonised corporation tax.

Dave! · 08-06-2012 12:56pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

When push comes to shove, our low corporation tax rate will disappear as fast as a FG election manifesto promise.

It will then be 'spun' to suggest that it's better to have a 'universal CT rate', better for stability and better for jobs.

Same bull****e politicians, same bull****e rhetoric!

And the usual crowd will be telling us that Connolly and Pearse died so that we could have the lowest corporation tax in Europe... Rather than just discussing policies on their merits.

gerryo777 · 08-06-2012 1:13pm

Dave! wrote: »

And the usual crowd will be telling us that Connolly and Pearse died so that we could have the lowest corporation tax in Europe... Rather than just discussing policies on their merits.

Think you'll find they died so we could have our republic.

A republic being one where we, the people elect a government to do what they said they would do in their pre-election manifesto's.

We don't have that with FG/Lab.

baldbear · 08-06-2012 1:20pm

That lad is smoking garlic!

Dave! · 08-06-2012 1:27pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

Dave! wrote: »

And the usual crowd will be telling us that Connolly and Pearse died so that we could have the lowest corporation tax in Europe... Rather than just discussing policies on their merits.

Think you'll find they died so we could have our republic.

A republic being one where we, the people elect a government to do what they said they would do in their pre-election manifesto's.

We don't have that with FG/Lab.

Or with any government ever elected...

You must be new to democracy!

This thread has surely served its purpose now

baldbear · 08-06-2012 1:43pm

So rebels are firing on governement troops from christian areas hoping these areas will be destroyed and the christians leave.what a mess.

Happyman42 · 08-06-2012 1:53pm

baldbear wrote: »

So rebels are firing on governement troops from christian areas hoping these areas will be destroyed and the christians leave.what a mess.

In the Dail....coooool!!!!!

donegal_road · 08-06-2012 1:57pm

baldbear wrote: »

So rebels are firing on governement troops from christian areas hoping these areas will be destroyed and the christians leave.what a mess.

the whole thing has taken an interesting turn

Happyman42 · 08-06-2012 2:03pm

donegal_road wrote: »

the whole thing has taken an interesting turn

Enda goes postal on the Vatican? Or a Mick Wallace coup d'eat?:D

K-9 · 08-06-2012 2:13pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's called getting your priorities right. But how would you do that when your rationale tells you that those on the lower end of the scale are bottom feeding scum out to fiddle the state at every oppurtunity.
'Another pay rise their Enda? Please put your expenses sheet in the IN tray, just think of a number and multiply it!

And BTW, my point about SW was; the reason it would seem high to our European counterparts is that they are taking into account that the cost of living and taxes here is much higher. It is linked to the cost of living in the real world.

What in the name of God are you on about now Happyman.

Happyman42 · 08-06-2012 2:17pm

K-9 wrote: »

What in the name of God are you on about now Happyman.

Your skewed priorities.

Wibbs · 08-06-2012 2:28pm

K-9 wrote: »

What in the name of God are you on about now Happyman.

Indeed. Though we have fundamentally disagreed on a few points in the past, I've never heard you refer to anyone as bottom feeding scum. Must be reading another Boards.ie in a parallel universe where Scofflaw is a eurosceptic and I'm a woman.

Happyman42 · 08-06-2012 2:36pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. Though we have fundamentally disagreed on a few points in the past, I've never heard you refer to anyone as bottom feeding scum. Must be reading another Boards.ie in a parallel universe where Scofflaw is a eurosceptic and I'm a woman.

Where did I say K-9 said that?

K-9 · 08-06-2012 4:25pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

Where did I say K-9 said that?

My rationale leads you to that apparently, which is a very incorrect assumption as per usual.

Happyman42 · 08-06-2012 4:49pm

K-9 wrote: »

My rationale leads you to that apparently, which is a very incorrect assumption as per usual.

When I see people advocating cuts to SW before the wealthy are properly taxed then I have questions about their rationale.

EURATS · 08-06-2012 4:55pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

K-9 wrote: »

My rationale leads you to that apparently, which is a very incorrect assumption as per usual.

When I see people advocating cuts to SW before the wealthy are properly taxed then I have questions about their rationale.

When u have bono and co., and a huge portion of our wealthiest people living as tax exiles...it says it all.

Scofflaw · 08-06-2012 5:01pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Indeed. Though we have fundamentally disagreed on a few points in the past, I've never heard you refer to anyone as bottom feeding scum. Must be reading another Boards.ie in a parallel universe where Scofflaw is a eurosceptic and I'm a woman.

In a universe far, far away...

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9 · 08-06-2012 6:08pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

When I see people advocating cuts to SW before the wealthy are properly taxed then I have questions about their rationale.

Don't know where you are getting that from either other than an overactive imagination!

K-9 · 09-06-2012 12:48am

Happyman42 wrote: »

When I see people advocating cuts to SW before the wealthy are properly taxed then I have questions about their rationale.

Well, I'd have to question your rationale at reaching those conclusions!

I've defended welfare recipients on threads, attacked the rationale of slashing welfare, proposed the sacred cow of raising Corporation Tax, moaned about the Government deciding Income tax is sacrosanct, many other things.

A rationale is at question here, definitely.

Run_to_da_hills · 09-06-2012 5:45pm

Reuters on Euro news knew Irish referendum Fiscal Treaty result before the count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3DLYJS1fFU

dvpower · 09-06-2012 6:06pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Reuters on Euro news knew Irish referendum Fiscal Treaty result before the count.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3DLYJS1fFU

There was an exit poll.

09-06-2012 6:26pm

Well almost every opinion poll was 60-40 in favour of a yes vote, no conspiracy there!

Well loking at Spain tonight it looks like we blew our chance to play hardball on improving the bailout deal. :mad:

BIG BAD JOHN · 09-06-2012 6:34pm

You have to wonder if we're really just rearranging deckchairs on the Euro Titanic.

gerryo777 · 09-06-2012 6:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well almost every opinion poll was 60-40 in favour of a yes vote, no conspiracy there!

Well loking at Spain tonight it looks like we blew our chance to play hardball on improving the bailout deal. :mad:

Well, we might get another few crumbs after this and FG/Lab can claim it as another concession won by their skilful negotiating skills!

It's all spin by the spin-doctors/advisors, that's why we pay them so much, sure aren't they worth all their pay rises.

Happyman42 · 09-06-2012 7:25pm

K-9 wrote: »

Well, I'd have to question your rationale at reaching those conclusions!

I've defended welfare recipients on threads, attacked the rationale of slashing welfare, proposed the sacred cow of raising Corporation Tax, moaned about the Government deciding Income tax is sacrosanct, many other things.

A rationale is at question here, definitely.

You made a comment I responded. I don't file your previous posts. :rolleyes:

Happyman42 · 09-06-2012 7:31pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Well loking at Spain tonight it looks like we blew our chance to play hardball on improving the bailout deal. :mad:

I wouldn't be too embarassed about our dolts, we aren't alone, the ineptness all around Europe is shocking. They've conspired to destory the thing they were trying to save. A Confederacy Of Dunces! :rolleyes:

I think this place has the jump on us all!

http://www.independent.ie/video/video-irish-news/embrace-the-punt-3111939.html

PC CDROM · 09-06-2012 10:41pm

Happyman42 wrote: »

I wouldn't be too embarassed about our dolts, we aren't alone, the ineptness all around Europe is shocking. They've conspired to destory the thing they were trying to save. A Confederacy Of Dunces! :rolleyes:

I think this place has the jump on us all!

http://www.independent.ie/video/video-irish-news/embrace-the-punt-3111939.html

Our politicians are not "dolts" or stupid by any means. Nor are the rest

They are really clever as far as I can see. We think that they are trying their best to sort out problems and are stupid because of their actions but really all they are doing is looking after themselves and doing it very well.

All Enda and Co. are really concerned with is saving the Brussels Gravy train for when they have to get on it. They want their pensions and they wont risk messing up the EU for the "people" if it means fuking up their futures.

This whole Spain thing will play out interestingly. One thing I have read suggests that the EU etc want Ireland/Greece et al to go mental over the Spain package so they can "sell" that package to the Spanish people.

Look you got a good deal...look how p1ssed off the rest are. Be thankful!

squod · 09-06-2012 11:12pm

PC CDROM wrote: »

They are really clever as far as I can see. We think that they are trying their best to sort out problems and are stupid because of their actions but really all they are doing is looking after themselves and doing it very well.

All Enda and Co. are really concerned with is saving the Brussels Gravy train for when they have to get on it. They want their pensions and they wont risk messing up the EU for the "people" if it means fuking up their futures.

Good point well made. The getaway government is pushing the boat out here and lying with both sides of their mouths.

Recent news from this group who were the first people from Ireland (government included) to ask for debt write-down.

Representatives from a number of Irish organisations, including the Ballyhea/Charleville bondholder bailout protest group, travelled to Frankfurt to take their demands directly to Mario Draghi, President of the ECB, during that body’s governing council meeting. These demands include the immediate destruction of all remaining promissory notes and the refunding of the two promissory notes already paid, which have cost Ireland over €6 billion.

This is the ECB dismissing claims from Kenny that a Yes vote will no be rewarded with a debt writedown

http://soundmigration.wordpress.com/2012/06/06/irish-debt-activists-at-ecb-as-draghi-rejects-debt-writedown-in-return-for-yes-vote/

Thanks again to everyone who voted FF/FG in the previous election for properly screwing up my country.

K-9 · 10-06-2012 12:30am

Happyman42 wrote: »

You made a comment I responded. I don't file your previous posts. :rolleyes:

Wouldn't expect that in fairness, when filing and categorising current posts seems a difficult enough task.

Fiscal Treaty Megathread [Poll Reset]

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