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Season 2 Episode 10 - The Final Episode **Have Not Read The Books***Mod Note Post #1*

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  • #122
    Syferus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    I don't think there is a reason in existence that could justify the jarring cuts in the finale.

    Even if it was written in the books a certain way what we saw on television did not work on an objective level. If this is what following the way the storyline is laid out in the books leads to I hope they're even more ruthless in cutting their own way through the world next season.


  • #123
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It might have made sense in the context of a mid-season episode, but ending a season on such an apparent continuity gaff was a bit jarring.


  • #124
    twinex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭twinex


    Has anyone any thoughts on the Hound??, I really thought Sansa was going to leave with him and head north.I think that would have really given both characters huge potential for development. I hope he doesn't just fade away......


  • #125
    Sir Digby Chicken Caesar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 23,555 ✭✭✭✭Sir Digby Chicken Caesar


    Syferus wrote: »
    I don't think there is a reason in existence that could justify the jarring cuts in the finale.

    Even if it was written in the books a certain way what we saw on television did not work on an objective level. If this is what following the way the storyline is laid out in the books leads to I hope they're even more ruthless in cutting their own way through the world next season.

    they have changed and left out quite a bit of stuff for the tv series and even with that there's just so much to cover they dont have the time to give everything a proper seeing to. its pretty unavoidable that it'll be scene QUICK JUMP TO THE NEXT ****ING SCENE WE'RE RUNNING OUT OF TIME scene, etc etc
    hopefully the budget gets increased soon and we get more eps per season


  • #126
    pauldoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 638 ✭✭✭pauldoo


    For those who have read the books,how is the TV serious standing up to the books


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  • #127
    ziedth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,081 ✭✭✭ziedth


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    But when he left in the final episode he changed his appearance and said "farewell my little stark". Aria also mentioned her teacher was from the same place.

    I thought there may have been more to the exchange.

    I thought that too,

    Plus he knew the names of all those she would want dead. He knew her name and I found it odd she would bring up the dancing teacher at all. Either way it was a great scene and I think he is the most interesting character. Hope he comes into it in S3.


  • #128
    FrostyJack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,729 ✭✭✭FrostyJack


    ziedth wrote: »
    I thought that too,

    Plus he knew the names of all those she would want dead. He knew her name and I found it odd she would bring up the dancing teacher at all. Either way it was a great scene and I think he is the most interesting character. Hope he comes into it in S3.

    Pretty sure it isn't him, though it would be great if it was, he says that Dancing is a different skill. My main issue was why was Danerys clothes not burned off in the dragon scene, not because of physics or anything, but why were they not burned off :D


  • #129
    Mance Rayder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,007 ✭✭✭Mance Rayder


    pauldoo wrote: »
    For those who have read the books,how is the TV serious standing up to the books

    Although I am enjoying the TV series, It pales in comparison to the books. So much of the really good stuff is left out.


  • #130
    Witcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,379 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    I hope Syrio Forel shows up again, seeing him taking on soldiers with a wooden sword and his words to Arya (What do we say to the god of death?....) while Trant moved in on him....epic.


  • #131
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,813 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I just watched episode 9 & 10 back to back. Didn't think i could handle a week long gap between them. 9 was epic and 10 sets up the next season nicely.

    I'm also confused about who burned Winterfell though, it was surrrounded so I don't think it was the iron islanders, must have been some sort of betrayal by yerman from paths to freedom's bastard? All will be revealed I suppose. Also annoyed that they made us think Sansa went with The Hound only to show up in the hall the next day. Was surprised at the hound deserting, hope he ramains a prominent figure though. Oh and how the hell did Stannis escape? I thought that was Lannister men dragging him away, evidently not though. Also would have been nice to know if Der Davos and his son were definitely dead or not?

    Half way through book 1 now and will be reading A Clash of Kings straight after, would I be right in thinking some of these events will be much clearer in the book?

    Will be hard not to go straight into Storm of Swords until after season 3, especially if the season ends up only being half the book!


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  • #132
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    FrostyJack wrote: »
    Pretty sure it isn't him, though it would be great if it was, he says that Dancing is a different skill. My main issue was why was Danerys clothes not burned off in the dragon scene, not because of physics or anything, but why were they not burned off :D

    She was asking him to show her how to kill though. The "dancing" the other guy was showing Arya was just to sword fight.

    Both from the same place, he knew who Arya was and her beef with all the Lannisters not just Tywin.

    He also left Kings Landing the same time as Arya too didnt he ? Could have changed his face ended up being transported as a prisoner.

    Took a keen interest in Arya from the start. Stayed in the cage he surely could have gotten out of as he's quite a skilled and sneaky individual.


  • #133
    Ambient Occlusion
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 122 ✭✭Ambient Occlusion


    pauldoo wrote: »
    For those who have read the books,how is the TV serious standing up to the books
    It's best not to know really. If you truly want to enjoy the TV series, I advise against reading the books because you will only end up comparing them. Saying that, I'd say definitely go back and read each book after watching each one's respective series. It'd be much more satisfying doing it that way.


  • #134
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,813 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    LordSmeg wrote: »
    She was asking him to show her how to kill though. The "dancing" the other guy was showing Arya was just to sword fight.

    Both from the same place, he knew who Arya was and her beef with all the Lannisters not just Tywin.

    He also left Kings Landing the same time as Arya too didnt he ? Could have changed his face ended up being transported as a prisoner.

    Took a keen interest in Arya from the start. Stayed in the cage he surely could have gotten out of as he's quite a skilled and sneaky individual.

    After season one ended, the only spoiler I googled was whether syrio was dead or not.


  • #135
    Scioch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,249 ✭✭✭Scioch


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    After season one ended, the only spoiler I googled was whether syrio was dead or not.

    I may read the books. I dont want to start looking up spoilers. Once I start I wont stop and I'll just read the books through spoilers before the next season starts anyway.


  • #136
    Wetbench4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭Wetbench4


    I think season 1 was pretty close to the books but season 2 had quite a lot cut out and quite alot changed, and not for the better. I personally would recommend reading the books before the tv series, because the books are the real deal, and you don't want to have previous knowledge of the tv show tainting the AMAZING experience of reading the books for the first time. I've never read lord of the rings, but all the people i know who've read that and a song of ice and fire, say that asoiaf is better.


  • #137
    calex71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,126 ✭✭✭✭calex71


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    After season one ended, the only spoiler I googled was whether syrio was dead or not.

    You're not the only one :D


  • #138
    calex71
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,126 ✭✭✭✭calex71


    Wetbench4 wrote: »
    I think season 1 was pretty close to the books but season 2 had quite a lot cut out and quite alot changed, and not for the better. I personally would recommend reading the books before the tv series, because the books are the real deal, and you don't want to have previous knowledge of the tv show tainting the AMAZING experience of reading the books for the first time. I've never read lord of the rings, but all the people i know who've read that and a song of ice and fire, say that asoiaf is better.

    True re: season 1, folks could nearly skip it and start on book 2 it's so close. Changes made were for the most part for TV / Budget reasons though I'm still scratching my head over some of them. Reading the books first is a double edged sword, ok they are better but a different media and take more time to get through, if you haven't read them you expect nothing of the TV series and enjoy it for what it is and know no better, you also run the risk of becoming one of "those" people who harp on about the books :D

    FWIT and off topic the Lord of the rings movies where possibly one of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, but for the time and money put in they would have want to have been, I'd wager the entire GOT series..... all books is being made for less than what it cost to make the fellowship of the ring :p


  • #139
    Syferus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    I think book readers are lionising the importance of the books too much and giving too little thought to format; the fact is television narrative and book narrative are entirely unique things. What looks good on paper can be ham-fisted and absurd in a visual medium.

    I'm watching a television show; what it's based on is of little consequence to my enjoyment. If a better show can be made from being less reverential to the source material I'm all for it - this is a revision of the author's original work there's always the opportunity to make improvements with the benefit of hindsight.

    The beautiful acting, design and spectacle of the show make it the better creation, for me.


  • #140
    Funglegunk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭Funglegunk


    calex71 wrote: »
    FWIT and off topic the Lord of the rings movies where possibly one of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, but for the time and money put in they would have want to have been, I'd wager the entire GOT series..... all books is being made for less than what it cost to make the fellowship of the ring :p

    I'd say they could get to the end of the 3rd season by spending about the same as they did with Lord of the Rings! Each season of GOT costs ~$65 million, LOTR trilogy was $180 million. (Good blog post on all the financial stuff here.)


  • #141
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,561 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    calex71 wrote:
    FWIT and off topic the Lord of the rings movies where possibly one of the best book to screen adaptations ever done, but for the time and money put in they would have want to have been, I'd wager the entire GOT series..... all books is being made for less than what it cost to make the fellowship of the ring
    It's a crying shame really. If the money wasted on the whining hobbits had been much more wisely spent on ASOIAF we could have had our 24 episodes per book show without so many changes for budget's sake instead. ;) :P


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  • #142
    golfball37
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,054 ✭✭✭golfball37


    HBO confirmed a while back that book 3 would be done over 2 seasons so we should see a better more rounded story next year. My big complaint about season 2 overall was that it felt very rushed.

    Still compelling and easily the best thing on TV at the moment however.


  • #143
    thehairyone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 232 ✭✭thehairyone


    From what ive been reading on this and other forums. Most book readers seem to accept the big changes that have had to be made due to budget constraints. I think what most people feel a bit annoyed about are the few very small changes that have been made that do not appear to be due to budget constraints and seem to make the story more confusing and not as good as the books. I dont think its a coincidence that most people (book and non book readers) seemed to prefer the first series which stuck closer to the source material. While some character arcs have been improved by the TV series (Daenerys as an example) some have been made worse due to silly changes.

    IMO there is no need to deviate much from the storyline of the first 3 books of the series (except for budget reasons). I think they are a masterclass of suspense and storytelling. However, books 4 and 5 are a different story.


  • #144
    Liamalone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,000 ✭✭✭Liamalone


    Sleepy wrote: »
    It's a crying shame really. If the money wasted on the whining hobbits had been much more wisely spent on ASOIAF we could have had our 24 episodes per book show without so many changes for budget's sake instead. ;) :P

    lol LOTR is the Daddy!

    Must get a hold of ASOIF soon. How many books is there going to be in the end up? I thought it had finished with book 5 but heard different elsewhere.


  • #145
    WindmillWarrior
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 715 ✭✭✭WindmillWarrior


    Liamalone wrote: »
    lol LOTR is the Daddy!

    Must get a hold of ASOIF soon. How many books is there going to be in the end up? I thought it had finished with book 5 but heard different elsewhere.

    Another 2 scheduled books to go. Though a lot of people wouldnt be surprised if it took another 3 to finish it!


  • #146
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,561 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    Liamalone wrote: »
    lol LOTR is the Daddy!

    Must get a hold of ASOIF soon. How many books is there going to be in the end up? I thought it had finished with book 5 but heard different elsewhere.
    I'm one of those oddities that considers LOTR to be badly written tripe tbh, I only added the smiley's because expressing that opinion on an internet forum is usually akin to throwing a grenade in real life. Some people really dislike anything negative being said about the "one true" fantasy series... :rolleyes:

    There's no way GRRM can finish in two books imo. Even his wife tends to hold up 3 fingers behind his back when he's saying it'll be finished in two!


  • #147
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,855 ✭✭✭fitz


    I can't see how he's going to wrap it up in two more books. I reckon it'll be three more, for a grand total of eight.

    Be prepared to wait for book 6 though.
    On the plus side, reading ASOIAF, and seeing what Martin puts his characters through, is a particularly good primer for reading Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series. Ten books in total, the series is complete, and if you thought Martin was ruthless....
    Erikson has a far higher quota of fling-the-book-across-the-room moments.


  • #148
    fitz
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 8,855 ✭✭✭fitz


    Sleepy wrote: »
    I'm one of those oddities that considers LOTR to be badly written tripe tbh, I only added the smiley's because expressing that opinion on an internet forum is usually akin to throwing a grenade in real life. Some people really dislike anything negative being said about the "one true" fantasy series... :rolleyes:

    I don't think it's tripe, it's a great story, but it's not well written. By Return of the King, it devolved into self indulgent prose with little or no characterisation.


  • #149
    Dermighty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,748 ✭✭✭Dermighty


    golfball37 wrote: »
    Still compelling and easily the best thing on TV at the moment however.

    Mad Men and The Borgias equally have that title for me.

    The entire dragon queen story line is so boring I feel, especially the sorcerers death, it really felt rushed.


  • #150
    Syferus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    I'd agree that Mad Men is the only show I'd put ahead of Game of Thrones, but Boardwalk Empire is a close third, it came into the world as fully formed as Game of Thrones and has maintained a level of consistency over its first two season that very few shows ever have.

    I've been meaning to watch The Borgias but I wasn't assuming it to be on the same level as GoT or Mad Men.

    The dragons stuff sit somewhat uncomfortably with me but the idea they're return has sparked a magic revival is quite interesting, and I like the swiftness of the resolution in the finale - I was afraid they'd leave Danys locked up to end the season and drag it out.

    Likewise her quest to become a true leader and queen has a lot of potential, and had her inevitable battle to restore the honour of her family, particularly once we reach Westeros.


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  • #151
    Wetbench4
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭Wetbench4


    Syferus wrote: »

    I'm watching a television show; what it's based on is of little consequence to my enjoyment. If a better show can be made from being less reverential to the source material I'm all for it - this is a revision of the author's original work there's always the opportunity to make improvements with the benefit of hindsight.

    The beautiful acting, design and spectacle of the show make it the better creation, for me.

    Ya i see your point. I only read the books after watching season 1, which blew me away, but in my opinion the story is the most important bit, not the format or how much show for money they can get. The only reason there is a show at all is because of the story, and if they keep changing it then its not the same story that HBO took the risk on in the first place, if you get what i mean.

    The bit that most annoyed me about season 2 was jaime killing his cousin in the stockade. [Book 2 spoiler]
    That was not in the book and totally out of character and jaime would not have done that, even though he did push bran out the window which was more impulse than sense.
    There are loads of changes like that in season 2 which alter the characters a little too much for me. All in all its still the top tv show for me at the moment, must check out breaking bad and madmen. I've heard lots of talk about those shows.


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