Season 2 Episode 10 - The Final Episode **Have Not Read The Books***Mod Note Post #1*

WilhelmFink

God, why didn't I watch this show??

Degag

LordSmeg wrote: »

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

Was thinking this myself. I think the dance teacher could have escaped and transformed himself into Jaquin. That dude was seriously talented... even with a wooden sword.

Disappointed with the lack of Hound.

Will comment more tomorrow. Bedtime now!

johnnysmack

LordSmeg wrote: »

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

I dont think so as Jaquin says that being a "dance" teacher is a fine thing but its not the same level as what he is.

pixelburp

So I think it's fair to say that 'Winter' has arrived in Westeros; I guess it goes without saying that the factions won't simply put away their differences to fight this threat. And equally, I'm going to guess that as impressive and unstoppable that zombie force seemed, 5 bucks says when season 3 starts they'll have barely made any progress towards the wall.

I wonder where Danerys fits in all this: presumably next season she'll be back in Westeros & that she'll start her climb to power; we've seen the Walking Dead are vulnerable to fire, and equally we've seen Tyrion use almost all wildfire in existence to beat the siege. So seems like a handy coincidence that Danaerys will arrive on the scene, possessing an easy solution against the zombies.

quad_red

pixelburp wrote: »

I wonder where Danerys fits in all this: presumably next season she'll be back in Westeros & that she'll start her climb to power; we've seen the Walking Dead are vulnerable to fire, and equally we've seen Tyrion use almost all wildfire in existence to beat the siege. So seems like a handy coincidence that Danaerys will arrive on the scene, possessing an easy solution against the zombies.

Exactly what I thought. The dragons will be used to hold back the hordes of zombies/white walkers.

The vision Danerys had of the snow covered and ruined throne room at King's Landing was interesting.

Rabidlamb

Syferus wrote: »

The less said about the bizarre jumps in the Winterfell story the better, nor was Stannis' escape (he was isolated atop the wall, so unless he killed every last archer I fail to see how he was ending up anywhere but in a dungeon)

Winterfell was just a mess continuity wise, what reasoning was there for any of the character's decisions, random & daft.
The Stanis off screen escape really annoyed me, I remember him being attacked from behind near the end of episode 9, are these episodes not shown to test audiences beforehand
Tyrion's demotion seems a bit heavy handed aswell, fair enough that Joffery or Cersei tried to off him but there were many witnesses to his brave speech & deeds.

Besides these glaring errors I still loved the season as a whole, I reckon Charles Dance will give Dinklage a run for the Emmy this year.

thomond2006

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Winterfell was just a mess continuity wise, what reasoning was there for any of the character's decisions, random & daft.
The Stanis off screen escape really annoyed me, I remember him being attacked from behind near the end of episode 9, are these episodes not shown to test audiences beforehand
Tyrion's demotion seems a bit heavy handed aswell, fair enough that Joffery or Cersei tried to off him but there were many witnesses to his brave speech & deeds.

Besides these glaring errors I still loved the season as a whole, I reckon Charles Dance will give Dinklage a run for the Emmy this year.

Stannis was not attacked from behind, he was being restrained by his own men as his army was routed.

Syferus

Syferus wrote: »

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Ok, I'll tell you something I've told her haters a million times before: SHE'S 15
Honestly, how worldly were you at that age?
Furthermore, she's spent her entire childhood being spoonfed nice stories about beautiful ladies and the princes, knights in shining armour and lords that protect them. She's still innocent and believes things will be ok. Maybe she believes someone will come rescue her, like her brother or Stannis. Maybe she thinks things will turn out worse for her if she breaks her loyalty to Joffrey (she's not exactly wrong).
Whatever the case, she's just a kid. You can't blame her for being naive.

stiffler123

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, I'll tell you something I've told her haters a million times before: SHE'S 15
Honestly, how worldly were you at that age?
Furthermore, she's spent her entire childhood being spoonfed nice stories about beautiful ladies and the princes, knights in shining armour and lords that protect them. She's still innocent and believes things will be ok. Maybe she believes someone will come rescue her, like her brother or Stannis. Maybe she thinks things will turn out worse for her if she breaks her loyalty to Joffrey (she's not exactly wrong).
Whatever the case, she's just a kid. You can't blame her for being naive.

Just because you like her doesn't mean everyone else has to. I find her incredibly annoying too. Would not mind her being killed off at all.

hypermuse

stiffler123 wrote: »

Just because you like her doesn't mean everyone else has to. I find her incredibly annoying too. Would not mind her being killed off at all.

yea I cant stand looking at her sad face all the time.. gets annoying after a while when a character just has the same emotion constantly!

I find it difficult to empathise for Sansa because of her constant despondent attitude.

podgemonster

hypermuse wrote: »

I find it difficult to empathise for Sansa because of her constant despondent attitude.

Well in fairness her loving father was beheaded by her sadistic future husband and is tortured emotionally and physically by Joff frequently. She is also thousands of miles away from her mother and other siblings. She's a prisoner and a pawn in the game of thrones. She is surrounded with people can't trust and faced with the harsh realisation of everything she learned as child regarding nobility was a lie. She has my empathy.

The actress that plays does have a whiney voice though.

Newaglish

hypermuse wrote: »

yea I cant stand looking at her sad face all the time.. gets annoying after a while when a character just has the same emotion constantly!

I find it difficult to empathise for Sansa because of her constant despondent attitude.

To be fair, you did get to see her smiling for about four seconds in this episode (before she was brought swiftly back down to earth)

pookiesboo

Ive been watching it properly this season, missed a lot in the first but really confused about some the characters etc.
Like those white walkers/others etc. Have they anything to do with the Wildlings or do I need a Game of Thrones For Dummies manual?!
Plus did Cersei advise Joffrey to not marry Sansa because shes feeling sorry for her or cos she still hates her?
I feel algebra is more understandable than this

Sleepy

The Walkers and Wildlings both live north of the wall but they're clearly different groups (as you can see from Osha's remarks that the armies are "marching the wrong way" i.e. they should be going north to deal with the walkers.

Cersei's "pleading" with Joffrey in the throne room was entirely staged to allow him to set aside Sansa for the politically more advantageous union with House Tyrell. Sansa's value is as a hostage (or conceivably should the Lannisters manage to win the war and kill all of the male Starks as an heir to Winterfell who could be married off to an ally allowing the Lannisters to take puppet control of the north). Certainly not valueless, but Margaery brings with her the swords and soldiers of a very wealthy family which, right now, is far more valuable to King Joffrey.

Funglegunk

pookiesboo wrote: »

Ive been watching it properly this season, missed a lot in the first but really confused about some the characters etc.
Like those white walkers/others etc. Have they anything to do with the Wildlings or do I need a Game of Thrones For Dummies manual?!
Plus did Cersei advise Joffrey to not marry Sansa because shes feeling sorry for her or cos she still hates her?
I feel algebra is more understandable than this

I think you need to watch the first season! The White Walkers are talked about a lot.

Cersei advised Joffrey not to marry Sansa because a marriage to Margaery Tyrell is much more advantageous politically (the Tyrells are the second most powerful family in Westeros after the Lannisters).

pookiesboo

Funglegunk wrote: »

I think you need to watch the first season! The White Walkers are talked about a lot.

Cersei advised Joffrey not to marry Sansa because a marriage to Margaery Tyrell is much more advantageous politically (the Tyrells are the second most powerful family in Westeros after the Lannisters).

Thanks! I have to rent the first season and watch again, theres a lot Im not getting

Professional Griefer

I'd rather marry her over Sansa tbh.

pookiesboo

Sleepy wrote: »

The Walkers and Wildlings both live north of the wall but they're clearly different groups (as you can see from Osha's remarks that the armies are "marching the wrong way" i.e. they should be going north to deal with the walkers.

Cersei's "pleading" with Joffrey in the throne room was entirely staged to allow him to set aside Sansa for the politically more advantageous union with House Tyrell. Sansa's value is as a hostage (or conceivably should the Lannisters manage to win the war and kill all of the male Starks as an heir to Winterfell who could be married off to an ally allowing the Lannisters to take puppet control of the north). Certainly not valueless, but Margaery brings with her the swords and soldiers of a very wealthy family which, right now, is far more valuable to King Joffrey.

Thanks, am not understanding a lot when Im watching tbh, must watch season 1 from scratch (over and over and over by the looks of it:o)

squonk

I rather liked this episode. The burning of Winterfell does surprise me a bit. I assumed that the Iron Islanders would have just left. If they weren't pushed about Theon they wouldn't have been too bothered with Winterfell either. You have to feel sorry for Theon though. Poor bastard! It was a great speech and I thought they were going to go out well but the arrow in the back was such a pathetic end to that.

Robb marrying the nurse was a bit odd IMHO. I know he's only supposed to be a teenager but as Lord of Winterfell I'd have thought he'd have been very mindful of the need for marriages as strategic alliances. There was absolutely nothing to stop him keeping the nurse as his real consort while having the Frey girl as the official wife. It seems a bit short sighted.

Regarding Sansa, I had one of those weeks last week where if I was in the middle of the Gobhi desert I'd have bumped into someone roaring out GoT plot spoilers. I stumbled across a few things by accident so I know what happens to Robb and I know how things pan out for Sansa so I wasn't surprised to see Marjorie become the new Queen in Waiting. Having said that, Sansa continues to piss me off. I know she's been brought up to be a girly girl. I've just started reading book 1 so there's a bit more on Sansa in there. I still say that Arya is two years her junior and a very capable girl. Right now she's effectively been fired, destined to be Joffrey's **** toy, had her father killed as well as her direwolf and she can see now also what Cersei is capable of with her own brother so why she's not making some effort to extricate herself I'll never know. Personally I'd rather die after being hunted down than sitting there and taking it. I can only assume that she'll take the 'thanks but no thanks' approach to Little Finger this time as well. If she's waiting for Robb to show up she could be waiting a very long time. I still think The Hound was a good bet for her. She's a dope pure and simple. Her chapters in the book are the most boring and it looks like her scenes in the show aren't up to much either.

I don't understand why Tyrion is now persona non-grata in Kings Landing. I'm sure Tywin was smart enough to know that Tyrion was the deciding factor in the battle. At least he could even see that he was there unlike Joffrey who ****ed off rather quickly. I just don't know Tywin's motivation. I'd imagine he'd rather have Tyrion around rather than dealing with Cersei and Joffy boy himself? S3 will be interesting. I'm looking forward to seeing Tywin as King's Hand. That was a great scene as he was being appointed. It was so obvious who the real power was there!

I'm disapointed they didn't show Mance myself. Just 10 seconds of a show would have been great. Thanks to those who filled me in on the White Walkers and the Wights earlier. I thought they were all white walkers. I need to rewatch S1 though, but after I read the book.

Not sure about Dany's storyline but at least it went somewhere which is more than could be said for a lot of this season with her. I'm a bit confused as to why the priest-magician guy didn't realise that she's be able to barbecue him with the dragons. It just seemed very contrived to me. I'd have expected him to have put up a better fight. Also, I didn't get the deal with Doxos' safe. It looked like he hadn't a penny to his name. I presume Danny can rout Qarth now and dig up some real money? By the sounds of it, Jorah didn't make it sound like a great boat could be bought with the bowl.

All in all a fair set up for S3. Can't wait really.

Boom_Bap

I thought it was a great ending to S2. There are some holes in the story, but I dont think they are enough to put me off. There are so many people/families involed in the story that I'd rather flick between each faster so that we know what is happening with everyone. If that means sacrificing the story behing Winterfell being on fire, then so be it. My assumptioon when watching was that the Ironmen had some sort of battle and got away. It's not the first time where battles are not shown and we cut to the aftermath.

Shapeshifting was awesome, I really hope that Arya follows him back to his land and trains in that 'art'.....and that we get to see that too.

I'm guessing that there will be a battle beyond the wall with the White Walkers and Wildlings and then the dragons will come along to sort everything out. We've seen that the dragons, well, one in particular, is getting decent with the dragons breath....and that is the way to kill the White Walkers. The Direwolves might come into play somehow there as well.

....I need to watch that last epsiode again tonight!

I've also picked up the first book, so that should help fill in some of the gaps for me.

Degag

Re Tywin replacing Tyrion as Hand. Doesn't Twyin hate Tyrion and it was very surprising that he was named Hand in the first place. Not really surprising that he didn't get any credit for winning the battle.

Syferus

I don't know how staged Joffrey's marriage acceptence was, honestly. Maybe they told him what he should do but after the Nedd debacle you could see everyone from Cersei to Varys looking skiddish when Joffrey initially refused.

Tywin named Tyrion Hand in his stead, Tywin was always the 'true' Hand of the King. Tywin was impressed with Tyrion's ingenuity in the battle at the end of season 1 and his relationship to him softened as a result. I'd imagine Tywin appreciates what Tyrion did to save King's Landing more than anyone else, even if he'll likely publically assume all the glory for himself. Tyrion might have more of a friend in his father than he or us thinks, even telling him Cersei tried to have him killed would likely prevent her from trying again as the last thing Tywin would want is something as salacious as fratricide fuelling yet more rumours about the Lannisters.

Loved Tywin's horse talking a dump outside the throne room, too.

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok, I'll tell you something I've told her haters a million times before: SHE'S 15
Honestly, how worldly were you at that age?
Furthermore, she's spent her entire childhood being spoonfed nice stories about beautiful ladies and the princes, knights in shining armour and lords that protect them. She's still innocent and believes things will be ok. Maybe she believes someone will come rescue her, like her brother or Stannis. Maybe she thinks things will turn out worse for her if she breaks her loyalty to Joffrey (she's not exactly wrong).
Whatever the case, she's just a kid. You can't blame her for being naive.

Look at Arya; she's younger and grew up beside Sansa and yet she has the intelligence and bravery to when the time has come to act. Age doesn't even come into it.

Sansa was a cowering, monotone presence throughout most of the season - even if this is as it was write in the books her character needed more development, not in what happened to her, but in how she reacted. Infuriating the viewer by in-action isn't the advisable course to take so many times in succession.

CastorTroy

Was Little Finger awarded Harrenhahl? "For your loyal service you get this destroyed castle!"

As for Sansa, I think there's a reason for her to stay. Tyrion picked up on it previously when he offered help and she refused it. He said something like "You'll make it here after all". So if Tyrion sees something in her then I'll stick with his judgement.

Or maybe she's just biding her time until she can kill Joffrey.

molloyjh

wingnut wrote: »

Standard siege terms give us your leader and the rest of you can go home.

Killing the people and burning the place down kinds of flies in the face of that though. Like a lot of people I found that bit annoying. I'm assuming it'll be explained in S3 though. The plot lines have been quite detailed up until now. A slip up like that would be huge. I can't see that happening.....hopefully.

Kilkenny14 wrote: »

Season 3 is nine months away

9 months!? Ah nuts. :mad:

Syferus wrote: »

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Does anyone else remember that when Tyrion went to her and gave her the opportunity to speak openly she refused, doing her "Jeoffery is my one true love" lark, and Tyrion smiled and said that he thought she would outlive them all.

She trusts absolutely no one in Kings Landing. And she's right not to. She needs to keep her head down and keep saying the right things. And that's what she is doing. For as long as the Lannisters are at war with the Starks (and Jamie is still captive, to their knowledge) she is safe. I've found her story line, particularly the relationship with Cersei, really interesting. One one hand Ceresei is the Queen and doesn't care a damn about her, but yet on the other hand she has complete sympathy for her.

pixelburp wrote: »

I wonder where Danerys fits in all this: presumably next season she'll be back in Westeros & that she'll start her climb to power; we've seen the Walking Dead are vulnerable to fire, and equally we've seen Tyrion use almost all wildfire in existence to beat the siege. So seems like a handy coincidence that Danaerys will arrive on the scene, possessing an easy solution against the zombies.

I don't think this is coincidental at all. From what I've gathered it's been generations since either the dragons or walkers have been seen, so long in fact that people don't really believe in either any more. After what we saw last night I reckon that a lot of what happens in intertwined (the guy in the House of the Undying said their power grew with the arrival of the dragons for example). I reckon the dragons appear at the same time as the Walkers for good reason.

squonk

CastorTroy wrote: »

Was Little Finger awarded Harrenhahl? "For your loyal service you get this destroyed castle!"

Yeah he was! Harenhal is a ****hole! What's he going to do now? I can't see him leaving Kings Landing. Was it one of these 'give him some piece of crap to look after just to get the ****er out from under our feet' kind of bestowings?

MikeCork2009

Brilliant episode and sets up Season 3 very well.

Great to see Dany back on track and the White Walkers finally coming to the fore (since the very first episode)

I wonder will season 3 be more magic orientated? Season 1 and 2 seemed to be about the plans and battles of men and kings (and I know there is still the matter of Robb coming for Joffrey) however, season 2's end set up the return of magic (like the warlock said) Dany coming with her dragons, Jacqn changing his face, and was it just me or did they make a lot of the eyes i.e. the flames in the eyes of the red lady and Stannis and the frozen icy eyes of the White Walker on the horse!!!

Can't wait for season 3

Sleepy

Harrenhall may be a ruin but he was also given "all it's attendant lands and titles". Given that he's already a relatively wealthy self-made man and that such attendant lands would come with bannermen etc. Harrenhall actually makes him a moderately powerful lord. Castles can be rebuilt. I mean, do you honestly see the series ending without work at least starting on re-building Winterfell?

mikemac1

squonk wrote: »

I don't understand why Tyrion is now persona non-grata in Kings Landing. I'm sure Tywin was smart enough to know that Tyrion was the deciding factor in the battle. At least he could even see that he was there unlike Joffrey who ****ed off rather quickly. I just don't know Tywin's motivation. I'd imagine he'd rather have Tyrion around rather than dealing with Cersei and Joffy boy himself?

Tyrion and Joffrey both stood on the battlements but one was brave and the other was a coward

I suppose to hoist up Tyrion and praise him would take away praise from Joffrey.
And that can't be done, the King is always right. Even when is wrong he is right.
The people already hate him, he was caught in that riot and if news went around he was cowardly the city might act on the weakness

So as far as the plebs are concerned, Joffrey and Tywin won the battle.
It was Joffrey who led his men

Syferus

The reality has to be that everyone already knows what Tyrion did and that Joffrey ran, it's just the people in power and who they deal with that'll live in fantasy land, it was far too public to keep a lid on something like that. Hundreds of soldiers, mostly peasant class men, saw it all unfold and there's no way you keep all of them quiet.

It's almost entirely the same situation as Joffrey styling himself as the son of Robert when every village in the land knows he's the son of Cersei and Jaime.

Ambient Occlusion

For anyone wondering about what happened at Winterfell and that doesn't want any spoilers, don't worry. It all makes sense and the explanation is being left until season three for a good reason.

Yeah he was! Harenhal is a ****hole! What's he going to do now? I can't see him leaving Kings Landing. Was it one of these 'give him some piece of crap to look after just to get the ****er out from under our feet' kind of bestowings?

Nope, Harrenhal is the greatest fortress in the Seven Kingdoms, IIRC, even in the state that it's in. It also commands to most fertile lands in all of Westeros and is therefore the most lucrative region in terms of profit to be made.