Season 2 Episode 10 - The Final Episode **Have Not Read The Books***Mod Note Post #1*

Elessar

Dunno about you lads but Rose Leslie who plays Ygritte (jon snow's love interest) is the finest thing on TV in a long time!

lynski

wow. happy out with that.
delighted the white walkers are not zombies - am zombied out with walkers.
Have to watch again, but the only gripe is the burning of winterfell, no explanation or indication given oh and not enough arya or tywin. loved the theon speech scene.

Syferus

DL Saint wrote: »

Jon Snow killing Quaran Hafan was something I did not see coming, but I guess that is the price he had to pay in order to gain the wildlings trust.

Finally the White Walkers scene was brief but brilliant. We know they are back in numbers. We know what they look like (appear different to in episode 1 imo). We know what their leader looks like. And it was clear that many of them have the appearance of dead wildling or nights watch men.

Halfhand pretty much told Jon head on in episode 8 that he should kill him to gain the confidence of the wildlings, though.

He/it was just a rider, I wouldn't class anyone as 'the leader', plenty of other ones on horses were doing the exact same screaming and pointing like chimps. And it's been obvious since that dead body came back to like at Castle Black that the White Walkers are reanimated corpses - I don't think we can classify that as new information!

lynski

Syferus wrote: »

Halfhand pretty much told Jon head on in episode 8 that he should kill him to gain the confidence of the wildlings, though.

He/it was just a rider, I wouldn't class anyone as 'the leader', plenty of other ones on horses were doing the exact same screaming and pointing like chimps. And it's been obvious since that dead body came back to like at Castle Black that the White Walkers are reanimated corpses - I don't think we can classify that as new information!

there is a post above explaining the difference and the wiki is very useful - thankfully the white walkers are not reanimated corpses - their wights are.

Scioch

Two questions about the last couple episodes.

Firstly in the previous episode was it a gold cloak who attacked Tyrion ? I take it the queen wanted rid of him ?

And who burnt winterfell ? Wasnt Rob's man's sons army outside the gates ? So why did Bran and the others have to leg it north ?

titan18

Just on the White Walkers, they're actually a race, not reanimated corpses. The wights are reanimated corpses, the White Walkers have the power to create them.

Professional Griefer

He looks so badass.

Scioch

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

Syferus

So that makes it more confusing - I imagine the White Walkers are much more high-functioning than the wights?

Been watching the Season 1 blu ray extras and I'm guessing the Children of Forest (who disappeared north when the Andals invaded and murdered most of them) have a lot to do with the White Walkers.

mikemac1

Elessar wrote: »

Dunno about you lads but Rose Leslie who plays Ygritte (jon snow's love interest) is the finest thing on TV in a long time!

She's in Downton Abbey Season 1 if you ever watch that

Dave!

LordSmeg wrote: »

OH and was Jaquin Aria's killer friend her "dance" teacher from Kings Landing ?

No, different guy

She saved Jaquin when he was locked in a carriage that was about to catch fire

We didn't see what happened to that "dance teacher", looked like he was about to be killed though

Scioch

Dave! wrote: »

No, different guy

She saved Jaquin when he was locked in a carriage that was about to catch fire

We didn't see what happened to that "dance teacher", looked like he was about to be killed though

But when he left in the final episode he changed his appearance and said "farewell my little stark". Aria also mentioned her teacher was from the same place.

I thought there may have been more to the exchange.

mikemac1

I'm probably going to get ridiculed :pac:

Littlefinger needs a wife
And he said Sansa reminds him of her mother

Just seems convenient if he marries her and takes her with him to his new city
He can treat people well when he wants to, seems a decent match

Ix Deadmau5

Ix Deadmau5 wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing Sansa die either.

No hating on the Little Bird! :mad:

hypermuse

the fact Arya's killer friend is a shapeshifter was unreal! was well impressed when he revealed that!

OctavarIan

Syferus wrote: »

So that makes it more confusing - I imagine the White Walkers are much more high-functioning than the wights?

I think what that ending scene was trying to get across was that the White Walkers possess a level of intelligence that goes beyond "RARR KILL EVERY HUMAN I SEE". The way that White Walker looks down his nose at Sam and dismisses him says a lot.

Also at the very beginning of Season 1 Episode 1 a White Walker lets that guy from the Night's Watch escape on purpose, rather than just kill him.

Also remember that Craster seems to have some kind of deal in place with them. In order to do that they must have some kind of intelligence.

expectationlost

that wonky smile will be wiped off THE queens face soon enough?

Syferus

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Hyzepher

Just finished watching it there and thought it was a good final episode. Gave us a good foundation for next season.

Sensa still annoys me in the way she is incapable of taking advice/help - maybe Littlefinger will convince her.

The burning of Winterfell was odd and the only thing I can think of that would make sense was if the 200 men that were camped outside did the burning and then legged it. I can't see the 20 or so men who left with Theon waiting around to kill everyone - especially as they were more than likely giving him up so they could go free.

probably need to watch it again.

mufcboy1999

Really enjoyed that episode. I have to say though In all it was a pretty disappointing series but hopefully series 3 will be more consistant.

Tbh the last 2 episodes were great though.

Funglegunk

Syferus wrote: »

Sansa is infuriating - we grew sympathetic to her this season but the amount of offers of genuine help she's spurned (Tyrion, the Hound and Littlefigner) made my patience drip away completely.

She's supposed to be afraid but she just coming across as mentally challenged - how can it get any worse than being your father's murderer's little fúck toy? She just comes across as stupid which, admittedly, she very much was in the first season. You'd have hoped for more actual development after all she's been through and seen in the last few months.

Her arc went absolutely no where this year.

Well from Sansa's point of view, Littlefinger has previously betrayed the Starks, Tyrion is a Lannister, and the Hound is a bit mentally unstable. She finds it incredibly difficult to trust anyone in King's Landing and so she's holding out for a better, more robust offer. Probably waiting for Robb to arrive.

Syferus

Funglegunk wrote: »

Well from Sansa's point of view, Littlefinger has previously betrayed the Starks, Tyrion is a Lannister, and the Hound is a bit mentally unstable. She finds it incredibly difficult to trust anyone in King's Landing and so she's holding out for a better, more robust offer. Probably waiting for Robb to arrive.

I sincerely doubt she thinks that deeply.

She's shown very few signs of intelligence or understanding besides not liking Joffrey for cutting her father's head off, which is as neon-painted a sign as you can get.

Syferus

Funglegunk wrote: »

Well from Sansa's point of view, Littlefinger has previously betrayed the Starks, Tyrion is a Lannister, and the Hound is a bit mentally unstable. She finds it incredibly difficult to trust anyone in King's Landing and so she's holding out for a better, more robust offer. Probably waiting for Robb to arrive.

I sincerely doubt she thinks that deeply. She's just completely cowed in and cowardly, the duality between her and Arya is as.. stark.. as night and Day.

She's shown very few signs of intelligence or understanding besides not liking Joffrey for cutting her father's head off, which is as neon-painted a sign as you can get.

longhalloween

pixelburp wrote: »

'Others' seems a bit lame - overly mysterious & melodramatic perhaps? At least "White Walkers" sounds vaguely mystical and something from myth.

I think if they kept them as 'The Others' it'd draw comparisons to Lost. That said, 'walkers' are what the zombies in 'The Walking Dead' are called.

calex71

Syferus wrote: »

I sincerely doubt she thinks that deeply.

She's shown very few signs of intelligence or understanding besides not liking Joffrey for cutting her father's head off, which is as neon-painted a sign as you can get.

What about self preservation? Everything shown on screen made me feel this was her motivation, keep her head down , especially in the scenes with Cersei and the hound in episode 9 where she had chances to go, so many times in the series has she had a chance to bad mouth the king and every time she did the opposite.

Syferus

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Really enjoyed that episode. I have to say though In all it was a pretty disappointing series but hopefully series 3 will be more consistant.

Tbh the last 2 episodes were great though.

The finale somehow managed the feat of both being significantly longer than a regular episode and feeling like huge chunks were missing.

No Mance Rayder - which I think is almost insane in terms of how little actually happened north of the wall, we've spent the entire season talking about Rayder and they pull back from the money shot even in the finale. A little face time is all we needed to feel like the chains have decisively moved forward.

It took away from the impact of the zombie horde for me. Which, actually, is an aspect of the White Walkers I'm not keen on, the zombie fatigue in popular culture has reached un-rivalled levels and The Walking Dead eats up any good-will I have on the topic. The saving grace is that they're actually commanded by intelligent beings. I hope to God the White Walkers can converse in something more than monkey screams, though.

The less said about the bizarre jumps in the Winterfell story the better, nor was Stannis' escape (he was isolated atop the wall, so unless he killed every last archer I fail to see how he was ending up anywhere but in a dungeon) or the Onion Knight's survival (or lack thereof) satisfactorily explained. Robb instantly marrying rather than at least waiting until the war was over felt like a transparent device to create tension with the Freys next season.

If anything this was perhaps the weakest and most disappointing episode of the show so far, with the storyline that I was least interested in seeing (Danys) being the saving grace. The episode was enjoyable, but in no way was it one of the best.

The season overall, however, was full of wonderful moments and interactions. I don't care about the pace events unfolds as long as it feels organic.

Washington Irving

Did anyone else notice the horse the White Walker was on at the end? Had wounds on/ around its neck. It reminded me of the horse that was killed by The Mountain after the jousting contest. Little detail but made me smile

Liamalone

Jeez I must get the books, just feels like a crammed version for tv. I wonder how it is going down with those that have read the books? Afraid to venture in there lol

Enjoyed the series though, didn't think this episode was good at all due to things just being 'tied up' or being 'set up' for the next installment.

Needs to be more episodes, simple as.

TerrorFirmer

Hyzepher wrote: »

The burning of Winterfell was odd and the only thing I can think of that would make sense was if the 200 men that were camped outside did the burning and then legged it. I can't see the 20 or so men who left with Theon waiting around to kill everyone - especially as they were more than likely giving him up so they could go free.

probably need to watch it again.

After just watching it, that stood out to me more than anything else....the burning of Winterfell, seemingly wholly baffling as to who, and why, given the respective circumstances.

Syferus

Liamalone wrote: »

Jeez I must get the books, just feels like a crammed version for tv. I wonder how it is going down with those that have read the books? Afraid to venture in there lol

Enjoyed the series though, didn't think this episode was good at all due to things just being 'tied up' or being 'set up' for the next installment.

Needs to be more episodes, simple as.

I wouldn't like any more episodes because the production quality is what separates this from most tv shows and that'll be compromised by more episodes. HBO would need to be stumping up significantly more money to make that work and they're already hugely in the pot for the show as it is.

I think the issue of the pacing is defined by the fact that at its heart this show is The West Wing and not Lord of the Rings and the dragons, the magic and the zombies are always secondary to the characters; they're all just mirrors to tell us something about the desires and the fears of the cast.

The show would be best suited not to worry about pacing a season to an approximate book - fit in two full ones if it works or cut out even more if it makes for a better thoroughfare through the story.