South County GC Closed

Whyner · 10-05-2012 8:34am

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/hundreds-left-out-of-pocket-as-golf-club-closes-down-3103853.html

/ you cannot post an entire article

shamco · 10-05-2012 9:01am

scubapro wrote: »

Hot off the press

Dear Jason,

As landlords to the South County Golf Club Limited and in the pursuance of clause 7 of lease entered into 8/11/2000, we are advising all said members that we have taken possession of the facilities until further notice because of the actions and abandonment by the company and its directors.

We advise members of the club that they are welcome to play golf as usual subject to rules and regulations and the Golfing Union of Ireland. Presently the bar and restaurant will remain closed but we have agreed with the Club Professional to leave the Pro shop open.

Landlords,

John & Patrick Kavanagh

How did the landlords get our email address. What about the data protection act?

charlieIRL · 10-05-2012 9:04am

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Apologies man its just well you know how we mus be feeling right now. Its like a death in the family.

no worries, its a shocking situation ye are in and hopefully it will be resolved soon.
As someone else mentioned earlier the only news they were getting was from here so I think its best to give actual facts rather than speculation. I didn't realise we had so many SC members on here.

Best of luck.

Alrite Chief · 10-05-2012 10:14am

shamco wrote: »

How did the landlords get our email address. What about the data protection act?

The email was sent from the Managers email account. He was up there last night so must have been on the Kavanaghs behalf.

Anyway the course is officially open today so I might get up at some stage and see what's going on. Great responce to this thread I must say.

link_2007 · 10-05-2012 10:26am

Alrite Chief wrote: »

The email was sent from the Managers email account. He was up there last night so must have been on the Kavanaghs behalf.

Anyway the course is officially open today so I might get up at some stage and see what's going on. Great responce to this thread I must say.

I know I should be happy the course is open but for some reason it makes me even more frustrated as it's quite obvious there is a lot going on behind the scenes yet the memebers, and probably the staff, are completely in the dark over everything.

FANTAPANTS · 10-05-2012 10:38am

Alrite Chief wrote: »

He was getting lessons on his grip.

good 1 hope all works out at the club guys

Alrite Chief · 10-05-2012 11:30am

I went up this morning to see what's going on. Pat and Jim Kavanagh were there (landlords), the staff from the pro shop and a few members. There is no real new news from what's been said already but what I can confirm is:

Membership records are wiped and gone with the board.

The Kavanghs have repossessed the land and are operating it on a pay as you play basis for the foreseeable. 10euro.

The machinery has all been removed overnight by SCGC. Very underhanded and sly move.

About 40 members met on Tuesday night to discuss tackling the board over the clubs running. A matter of hours later the board pulled the plug and abandoned the land.

Locksmiths came in Tuesday evening and were changing the locks. Staff asked management what was going on and were told dont worry new keys will be issued in the morning. Text sent at 6.20 am to say club gone.

So far no communication between landlords and board. President Tom Fahey declining to comment.

charlieIRL · 10-05-2012 11:42am

crikey, not good news for members.

bustercherry · 10-05-2012 11:42am

Alrite Chief wrote: »

I went up this morning to see what's going on. Pat and Jim Kavanagh were there (landlords), the staff from the pro shop and a few members. There is no real new news from what's been said already but what I can confirm is:

Membership records are wiped and gone with the board.

The Kavanghs have repossessed the land and are operating it on a pay as you play basis for the foreseeable. 10euro.

The machinery has all been removed overnight by SCGC. Very underhanded and sly move.

About 40 members met on Tuesday night to discuss tackling the board over the clubs running. A matter of hours later the board pulled the plug and abandoned the land.

Locksmiths came in Tuesday evening and were changing the locks. Staff asked management what was going on and were told dont worry new keys will be issued in the morning. Text sent at 6.20 am to say club gone.

So far no communication between landlords and board. President Tom Fahey declining to comment.

Pay and play for existing members? How do they know if the membership records are gone?

Alrite Chief · 10-05-2012 11:51am

Yep pay and play for members. Fact is we are no longer members. The Kavanaghs say they cannot afford to support the course without money.

thegen · 10-05-2012 11:53am

Dont know how he is going to run a course without machinery, maybe it will mysteriously reappear!!!!!!

This stinks to high heaven.

Whyner · 10-05-2012 11:54am

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Yep pay and play for members. Fact is we are no longer members. The Kavanaghs say they cannot afford to support the course without money.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

shamco · 10-05-2012 11:57am

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Yep pay and play for members. Fact is we are no longer members. The Kavanaghs say they cannot afford to support the course without money.

I have paid my fees already I'm [EMAIL="f@~ked"]f@~ked[/EMAIL] if I'm going to give Kavanagh another cent.

thegen · 10-05-2012 11:58am

shamco wrote: »

I have paid my fees already I'm [EMAIL="f@~ked"]f@~ked[/EMAIL] if I'm going to give Kavanagh another cent.

He can be fooked if he will get the use of the machinery.

Russman · 10-05-2012 12:02pm

thegen wrote: »

This stinks to high heaven.

+1
Must be more to this than is in the public domain.
I mean, its only early May, where are the subscription moneys sitting at the moment ? Surely they can't have been fully spent already...
Who has access to whatever bank account is used ?
Who owns the machinery and had they the right to remove it ?

Can open, worms everywhere methinks.

link_2007 · 10-05-2012 12:05pm

I know yesterday we had a couple of committee members posting in here. Did any of you know about this group of members who were preparing to approach the board?

This just gets stranger and stranger.

Only one Keano · 10-05-2012 12:05pm

Alrite Chief wrote: »

I went up this morning to see what's going on. Pat and Jim Kavanagh were there (landlords), the staff from the pro shop and a few members. There is no real new news from what's been said already but what I can confirm is:

Membership records are wiped and gone with the board.

The Kavanghs have repossessed the land and are operating it on a pay as you play basis for the foreseeable. 10euro.

The machinery has all been removed overnight by SCGC. Very underhanded and sly move.

About 40 members met on Tuesday night to discuss tackling the board over the clubs running. A matter of hours later the board pulled the plug and abandoned the land.

Locksmiths came in Tuesday evening and were changing the locks. Staff asked management what was going on and were told dont worry new keys will be issued in the morning. Text sent at 6.20 am to say club gone.

So far no communication between landlords and board. President Tom Fahey declining to comment.

I really hope they resolve all this & the members get some hold of their course back. A good clubhouse, great pro, a decent course and good & passionate members. The kind of place that Irish golf needs to survive. Best of luck lads!

chuckieamc · 10-05-2012 12:06pm

Alrite Chief wrote: »

I went up this morning to see what's going on. Pat and Jim Kavanagh were there (landlords), the staff from the pro shop and a few members. There is no real new news from what's been said already but what I can confirm is:

Membership records are wiped and gone with the board.

The Kavanghs have repossessed the land and are operating it on a pay as you play basis for the foreseeable. 10euro.

The machinery has all been removed overnight by SCGC. Very underhanded and sly move.

About 40 members met on Tuesday night to discuss tackling the board over the clubs running. A matter of hours later the board pulled the plug and abandoned the land.

Locksmiths came in Tuesday evening and were changing the locks. Staff asked management what was going on and were told dont worry new keys will be issued in the morning. Text sent at 6.20 am to say club gone.

So far no communication between landlords and board. President Tom Fahey declining to comment.

This is so disappointing. Realistically landlords were never going to let us out for free when I think of it, but I was holding out some hope. Why was the meeting on Tuesday night not more widely communicated among the member base? I feel so out of the loop as a newbie member

The article in the independent made it seem like the debt was not that large; what was it, €65000 debt last year? Say if it had gone up to even €200000 this year, that doesn't seem an insurrmountable sum to me (spot the no business-brain person!). Appears like they just abandoned ship....

shamco · 10-05-2012 12:07pm

Alrite Chief wrote: »

Yep pay and play for members. Fact is we are no longer members. The Kavanaghs say they cannot afford to support the course without money.

What happens our credit in the Pro-shop?. Is Raymie still trading?

morganfletcher · 10-05-2012 12:09pm

This message was sent from Michael at southcounty

emac123 · 10-05-2012 12:16pm

morganfletcher wrote: »

This message was sent from Michael at southcounty

What message???

thegen · 10-05-2012 12:25pm

morganfletcher wrote: »

This message was sent from Michael at southcounty

The same Morgan Fletcher who sends abusive emails to members

morganfletcher · 10-05-2012 12:31pm

The email you got this morning from the Landlords came from michael at south county
How did the landlords get around data protection to write to each of us.

one ill cat · 10-05-2012 12:57pm

chuckieamc wrote: »

This is so disappointing. Realistically landlords were never going to let us out for free when I think of it, but I was holding out some hope. Why was the meeting on Tuesday night not more widely communicated among the member base? I feel so out of the loop as a newbie member

The article in the independent made it seem like the debt was not that large; what was it, €65000 debt last year? Say if it had gone up to even €200000 this year, that doesn't seem an insurrmountable sum to me (spot the no business-brain person!). Appears like they just abandoned ship....

That meeting the other night was amongst shareholders as they are the ones who elect the board & ultimately have a say in the running of the club. The shareholder AGM was due soon. I believe that's why there was a meeting called amongst them for discussion before the AGM itself.

chuckieamc · 10-05-2012 1:06pm

one ill cat wrote: »

That meeting the other night was amongst shareholders as they are the ones who elect the board & ultimately have a say in the running of the club. The shareholder AGM was due soon. I believe that's why there was a meeting called amongst them for discussion before the AGM itself.

Ah I see, thanks for explaining.

frost53 · 10-05-2012 1:13pm

Was a member of a privately owned course years ago. The owner, a farmer, was constantly reminding us that this was his field. He famously said at a meeting that he'd plough it back into arable land, rather that let the members have any say in the running of the place or the course set-up.
I'm not disputing the Kavanaghs claim to the land if the lease defaults but this quick hungry land grab by them might show their mindset. Whatever about the Machinery, you can't put the course on a low loader and drive away.
They could have given a period of grace,allow the committee to carry on organising competitions until a new arrangement is made between owners and members.
I think the GUI would be more than willing to accommodate the club until such time.
Joined SC ten years ago.. "Pay and Play" ?... me no thinkee

downthemiddle · 10-05-2012 1:46pm

Someone from the members need to show leadership. It is imperative if South County is to survive in any shape or form that an EGM is called immediately. At the moment members seem to be dealing with rumour and second hand information. It is only with a meeting of the members that decisions can be made. I'm sure the members are still shocked and gutted but they need to take whatever initiative they can before their future is decided for them.

bustercherry · 10-05-2012 1:47pm

Yeah absolutely no way I'll be paying to play. Spoke to a few members too and they are the same. I'd give it 3 months and you'll see a load of sheep grazing on the course

sodbuster77 · 10-05-2012 1:56pm

morganfletcher wrote: »

This message was sent from Michael at southcounty

The same Morgan Fletcher who claims to have been a member for the last 10 years yet nobody has ever heard of or seen. Do one.

GreeBo · 10-05-2012 2:04pm

frost53 wrote: »

Was a member of a privately owned course years ago. The owner, a farmer, was constantly reminding us that this was his field. He famously said at a meeting that he'd plough it back into arable land, rather that let the members have any say in the running of the place or the course set-up.
I'm not disputing the Kavanaghs claim to the land if the lease defaults but this quick hungry land grab by them might show their mindset. Whatever about the Machinery, you can't put the course on a low loader and drive away.
They could have given a period of grace,allow the committee to carry on organising competitions until a new arrangement is made between owners and members.
I think the GUI would be more than willing to accommodate the club until such time.
Joined SC ten years ago.. "Pay and Play" ?... me no thinkee

"The Kavanaghs" could be on the breadline themselves with the bank manager at the door. Maybe they have already given SCGC LTD a grace period and it was abused?

Speculations isnt going to make anyone any happier so facts only please.

shamco · 10-05-2012 2:10pm

GreeBo wrote: »

"The Kavanaghs" could be on the breadline themselves with the bank manager at the door. Maybe they have already given SCGC LTD a grace period and it was abused?

Speculations isnt going to make anyone any happier so facts only please.

On the bread line?. I dont think so they were paid 1million upfront and 150k per year for the last ten years allegedly and now they get the land back for nothing

bailey99 · 10-05-2012 2:26pm

shamco wrote: »

On the bread line?. I dont think so they were paid 1million upfront and 150k per year for the last ten years allegedly and now they get the land back for nothing

They were paid 150k a year cause the club/company leased the land from them (aka the owners). If I own a house and rent it out to you for €10,000 a year and after ten years you leave, then I own the house. What the planet are you living on???? Regardless of what's on the land right now, the Kavanaghs are the owners of the land.

Would you prefer they closed the course and told all the members to go elsewhere??? Why is the anger and suspicion being directed at them when they had no hand in creating this mess????

bailey99 · 10-05-2012 2:27pm

shamco wrote: »

now they get the land back for nothing

Brilliant outta you shamco!!!! Imagine the injustice of the owners of the land getting their land back for nothing. They should really be made to buy it back again shouldn't they?!!!! No wonder the country is goosed when something remains the property of the owner! Madness I tell you.

link_2007 · 10-05-2012 2:33pm

Can we please remain amicable/friendly. This thread has been useful to a number of people, particularly the members who didnt't get the original text message so it would be a shame if it got deleted.

shamco · 10-05-2012 2:37pm

bailey99 wrote: »

They were paid 150k a year cause the club/company leased the land from them (aka the owners). If I own a house and rent it out to you for €10,000 a year and after ten years you leave, then I own the house. What the planet are you living on???? Regardless of what's on the land right now, the Kavanaghs are the owners of the land.

Would you prefer they closed the course and told all the members to go elsewhere??? Why is the anger and suspicion being directed at them when they had no hand in creating this mess????

Now that I'm back on earth!!. You seem to missing the point entirely that the Kavanaghs are not on the breadline. They are getting their land back with multimillion euro golf course on it. The country been in state it is in is not due to tenants by the way. Quite the opposite in fact

GreeBo · 10-05-2012 2:43pm

shamco wrote: »

Now that I'm back on earth!!. You seem to missing the point entirely that the Kavanaghs are not on the breadline. They are getting their land back with multimillion euro golf course on it. The country been in state it is in is not due to tenants by the way. Quite the opposite in fact

Actually the point is that unless you have seen their bank accounts you have no idea what their financial position is.

A golf course is only a multi-million euro golf course if someone is willing to pay you multiple million euros for it. Since 1 company has already failed to keep it afloat I would suggest that its not worth multiple-millions.

Tenants that dont pay their rent are not much use to anyone tbh.

aidan18 · 10-05-2012 3:01pm

I really hope things will get sorted there its a fine golf course Best of luck to all concerned.
Aidan

scubapro · 10-05-2012 3:02pm

Has any one else been up there today? I'm gonna head up there after work, had planned on having a round last nite when that email came in obviously there was no mention of pay and play. Not one to jump the gun, but I think it maybe a good time to look for another club.

Whyner · 10-05-2012 3:16pm

scubapro wrote: »

Has any one else been up there today? I'm gonna head up there after work, had planned on having a round last nite when that email came in obviously there was no mention of pay and play. Not one to jump the gun, but I think it maybe a good time to look for another club.

Go for it, grab what you can.

Reminder to cancel your direct debit for the monthly draw if you had it - so much for winning a years free subscription

We should have known something was up when they were selling off the hollow cores

Paulusmaximus · 10-05-2012 3:18pm

Would it be conceivable that the company which closed yesterday (SCGC), are going to walk away from whatever debts they have, and the same or similar people involved will set up a new company, rearrange a new lease with the landowners, buy machinery etc from the old company and offer a reduced membership fee to previous members, and start afresh next month?

Its not the first or last time i'd have seen this sort of practise in this country.

i have no basis for the above and its only a thought i had.

link_2007 · 10-05-2012 3:20pm

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

Would it be conceivable that the company which closed yesterday (SCGC), are going to walk away from whatever debts they have, and the same or similar people involved will set up a new company, rearrange a new lease with the landowners, buy machinery etc from the old company and offer a reduced membership fee to previous members, and start afresh next month?

Its not the first or last time i'd have seen this sort of practise in this country.

i have no basis for the above and its only a thought i had.

Considering the majority of members paid their annual sub in the last 6-8 weeks, I can't see many being prepared to pay further fees regardless of the discount offered.

Paulusmaximus · 10-05-2012 3:24pm

link_2007 wrote: »

Considering the majority of members paid their annual sub in the last 6-8 weeks, I can't see many being prepared to pay further fees regardless of the discount offered.

True, however, if the option was there to pay say €200 and then have a shareholding of the new company, which would have no debt and you play the same course, continue to be GUI affiliated etc, it would probably be a better solution then paying entrance fees and subs to another club.

bustercherry · 10-05-2012 3:27pm

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

Would it be conceivable that the company which closed yesterday (SCGC), are going to walk away from whatever debts they have, and the same or similar people involved will set up a new company, rearrange a new lease with the landowners, buy machinery etc from the old company and offer a reduced membership fee to previous members, and start afresh next month?

Its not the first or last time i'd have seen this sort of practise in this country.

i have no basis for the above and its only a thought i had.

Fuk em if they do. I know what will happen the the similar c***s if they approach me about giving a reduced membership fee.

What's the deal with the 2's. I've had a wee run of them this year and never collected

bustercherry · 10-05-2012 3:30pm

Paulusmaximus wrote: »

True, however, if the option was there to pay say €200 and then have a shareholding of the new company, which would have no debt and you play the same course, continue to be GUI affiliated etc, it would probably be a better solution then paying entrance fees and subs to another club.

With the same clowns in charge? Not a chance should any of these gits be allowed anywhere near any new club that could come out of this.

vikingdub · 10-05-2012 3:51pm

one ill cat wrote: »

That meeting the other night was amongst shareholders as they are the ones who elect the board & ultimately have a say in the running of the club. The shareholder AGM was due soon. I believe that's why there was a meeting called amongst them for discussion before the AGM itself.

Very few shareholders were aware that that meeting was taking place.

stinkypoo · 10-05-2012 3:54pm

there was a meeting of over 45 memebers on tuesday who were unhappy with the golf club and the way it was being run. if there is anything to rise from the ashes a meeting of members asap to put together a proposal to the land owners needs to happen. if they wont deal with this group then they will know that the landowners want to run the facility themselves. it would then be interesting to see who else becomes involved in that venture. people can then decide if they want to be part of that new club if it becomes a reality. its time for action.

vikingdub · 10-05-2012 3:56pm

stinkypoo wrote: »

there was a meeting of over 45 memebers on tuesday who were unhappy with the golf club and the way it was being run. if there is anything to rise from the ashes a meeting of members asap to put together a proposal to the land owners needs to happen. if they wont deal with this group then they will know that the landowners want to run the facility themselves. it would then be interesting to see who else becomes involved in that venture. people can then decide if they want to be part of that new club if it becomes a reality. its time for action.

I can see this one ending up in the Courts.

bustercherry · 10-05-2012 4:02pm

I can see a few lads ending up with a box in the mouth too :pac:

Anyone know if we can still use the practice facilities without paying 10 euro? I've a few range tokens in the car; might head up and get rid of them.

dangerous golfer · 10-05-2012 4:05pm

As members, we should look to meet with the landlords and find out DIRECTLY what their intentions are for their land and see if anything can be done by us to save the club.

bailey99 · 10-05-2012 4:07pm

shamco wrote: »

Now that I'm back on earth!!. You seem to missing the point entirely that the Kavanaghs are not on the breadline. They are getting their land back with multimillion euro golf course on it. The country been in state it is in is not due to tenants by the way. Quite the opposite in fact

I think it's you whose missing the point. The Kavanaghs didn't wind up the company or have anything to do with this mess. People suggesting they managed some sly underhanded method of getting a multi-million pound golf course for free are incredible!!!

Firstly, how much will/do they need to spend maintaining this multi million pound facilty? Secondly, where will they get income. They wont get any of the 600 odd members subscriptions cause the company has taken all that funding and scarperred. They are open the place as pay as you play for €10 which is very cheap in all fairness.

They can use this funding (their only source of funding I might add) to try and somewhat maintain the course. And as a result of offering golf for €10 they are absued as being sly and underhanded on the forum. That's brilliant in all fairness.

Instead of anger being directed at the board of directors who are refusing to comment, and being brought to account through the correct medium, ye cast aspertions on the owners of the property/land who I might add are left without a tenant on their land and thus without income. And furthermore, are subjected to wrath and sharp tongues of upto 600members who they are trying to facilitate through no fault of their own whatsoever.

Where the Kavanaghs on the board of directors can you tell me??? I'm not even from Dublin, and have sympathy for all members who paid the annual sub and got shafted, but in fairness, questionning the honour and rights of the owners in taking back their property is ridiculous to say the least.

Would you prefer if they closed the door and tolf you all to **** off????

South County GC Closed

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