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Households must pay for water meters.

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  • Options
    #242
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Politically it would be too painful to achieve all the necessary savings through cuts thats why taxes must rise. Ultimately this means that our collective standard of living will fall. That means the poor becoming poorer, people dying younger, less places in university for young people and larger class sizes among other things. Only when we face up to this reality will we be able to change it.

    All this while we see people from the civil service retiring with massive packages and pensions. Somebody retired back in January with a package of 800,000 and a yearly pension of 150,000+


    We see Pat Kenny on a yearly income of 700,000 euro a year. I realise that he and his ilk are not public sector but RTE will be saved with a broadcasting charge. When I was renting I lived very happily without a tv or laptop. I have a phone but it's and ordinary, cheap, run of the mill android and far from tv and rte I use it for.

    There are far too much people that are paid far too generously here in this country.


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    #243
    Precious flower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,812 ✭✭✭Precious flower


    I think it fair enough to ask people to pay for the water they use. A lot of people tend to waste water without really thinking about it and I believe it's quite a common thing in Europe. However, I think it's unfair to expect people to pay this tax when a huge amount of water is wasted before it even gets to people's taps due to leakages in pipes and the fact that you are already paying on top of that the household charge, which will only go up next year, that is supposedly suppose to go towards amenities and services in the community.


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    #244
    Unknown Soldier
    Registered Users Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭Unknown Soldier


    I hate to say it but if these twats in Government are p1ssing away my money I wish they would at least spend it on some good PR advice.

    They could have just hidden the charge in the actual water rates and said they were "free"

    Utter fuking morons.

    These are the people a lot of you voted into power.


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    #245
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    oppenheimer1 wrote: »
    Your point please?:confused:

    I didn't have a point. I was just doing some sums.


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    #246
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Precious flower wrote: »
    I think it fair enough to ask people to pay for the water they use. A lot of people tend to waste water without really thinking about it and I believe it's quite a common thing in Europe. However, I think it's unfair to expect people to pay this tax when a huge amount of water is wasted before it even gets to people's taps due to leakages in pipes and the fact that you are already paying on top of that the household charge, which will only go up next year, that is supposedly suppose to go towards amenities and services in the community.

    A lot of the problem in fixing leaks is actually finding them first. If they do the water metering properly (fingers crossed) it should be incredibly easy to find them.


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    #247
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Precious flower wrote: »
    I think it fair enough to ask people to pay for the water they use. A lot of people tend to waste water without really thinking about it and I believe it's quite a common thing in Europe. However, I think it's unfair to expect people to pay this tax when a huge amount of water is wasted before it even gets to people's taps due to leakages in pipes and the fact that you are already paying on top of that the household charge, which will only go up next year, that is supposedly suppose to go towards amenities and services in the community.

    I'd be just about able to stomach a flat rate


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    #248
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Ghandee wrote: »
    LOL........


    And we're off!


    Reinforcements have arrived, the bat signal is shining brighly over FG HQ........

    I just don't get your obsession with my political views?

    I'm not sure whether you are Sinn Féin or United Left Alliance (or neither) & frankly I don't give a damn. But I'll tell you very clearly that Enda isn't nearly as determined to sort this mess out as I'd like to see. That is why I am not an FG supporter.

    If McDowell came back and set up a new party to tackle this country, I'd welcome it. Maybe that will sort out this issue for you for once and for all?

    BTW, I know this forum is dominated by left wingers, indeed recent polls show just how heavily biased it is, so before you jump down my throat for having a different point of view > Tough!!! This is a democracy, I'm entitled to support who I want.


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    #249
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    Nonsense we do pay through general taxation. But since we have bailed out the banks and have 400,000 unemployed those taxes are no longer sustainable.

    Taxpayers get nothing for free in this country.

    With this initial outlay between €300-€600 depending on who you listen too and the annual charge of €300-€500 depending on what you use I'd recommend spending your money on sinking a well. It will have paid for itself in two to three years.

    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    No.

    Someday you'll grasp the reality that we are spending a hell of a lot more than we are raising in tax. The way out is a combination of spending cuts and increases in taxes.

    I'm sorry for the NIMBY's like you, but you just need to chip in and pay your share (and your penalties for late payment which will help everyone else a bit).


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    #250
    Phill Ewinn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭Phill Ewinn


    Precious flower wrote: »
    I think it fair enough to ask people to pay for the water they use. A lot of people tend to waste water without really thinking about it and I believe it's quite a common thing in Europe. However, I think it's unfair to expect people to pay this tax when a huge amount of water is wasted before it even gets to people's taps due to leakages in pipes and the fact that you are already paying on top of that the household charge, which will only go up next year, that is supposedly suppose to go towards amenities and services in the community.

    A lot of cities in ''Europe'' are just big smelly kips. Should we go down that route too? Fancy Dublin, Cork or Galway smelling like Barcelona or looking like Brussels?

    Bit of cop people please. The water charge money will leak into some fvckers pocket or pension scheme.


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    #251
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    Morlar wrote: »
    I agree.

    Granted social welfare recipients will probably not pay for meters but I would like them to clarify where the money for the costs of meter installation and upkeep is going to come from. Also how much this is expected to be per flat/home/caravan/etc. There are a lot of properties, period houses and so on where installing water meters onsite is not going to be straightforward.

    I believe landlords are probably going to be screwed to the wall to have to pay to install all those water meters in all those flats. As it would be unfair to burden a renting tenant to pay for a property's water metering system that is to the landlords ultimate benefit.

    I also think it's extremely fortuitous that this is coming in the midst of council water cuts and council water rationing.

    Also I would like to see estimates of the average yearly cost & a guarantee that every penny paid goes only to water supply costs. Another thing is what kind of assurances are there that the prices will not simply creep up and up and up and up and up year on year like every f***ing thing else in this country.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64157227

    That is from 2 years ago. I love the way our ever vigilant newspaper and broadcast media are so on the ball as to put these questions to our politicians in a timely manner like that.


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    #252
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,791 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    What happens if they arrive at your door and you reply with...."no thanks lads, I can't afford the €300 for the meter so I don't want it"...


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    #253
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    Nonsense we do pay through general taxation. But since we have bailed out the banks and have 400,000 unemployed those taxes are no longer sustainable.

    Taxpayers get nothing for free in this country.

    With this initial outlay between €300-€600 depending on who you listen too and the annual charge of €300-€500 depending on what you use I'd recommend spending your money on sinking a well. It will have paid for itself in two to three years.

    Bullseye, the Irish taxpayer has not paid one red cent of the Bank bailout.

    It has been paid for entirely by increased ECB borrowings and promissory notes to date.

    On the other hand the Irish taxpayer continues to require support to meet our day to day expenditure (arising out of embedded under-taxation and excessive expenditure).

    Strip out the Bank bailout costs & then lets accept that (those excluded) the Irish taxpayer has to ultimately pay his own way. If we cud get this basic agreed, it wud represent a substantial maturing of the Irish left wing alliance.


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    #254
    hilloftara
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭hilloftara


    i have a problem with paying for these ,im broke.my well dried up after 3 yrs after costing 5 grand just for the drilling no comeback on that.and i am gettin on the local scheme and its costing me 15% of the cost and the engineer 1100 euros and now they want me to pay for meter ,will people in council houses have to pay ,such a fool for building my house


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    #255
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    No.

    Someday you'll grasp the reality that we are spending a hell of a lot more than we are raising in tax. The way out is a combination of spending cuts and increases in taxes.

    I'm sorry for the NIMBY's like you, but you just need to chip in and pay your share (and your penalties for late payment which will help everyone else a bit).

    The vast majority is paying their share one way or another.

    What some people can't seem to grasp is that taxing nearly everything possible is NOT going to end the pain of austerity.
    In fact it can be argued that it might prolong it.

    If you take money out of everyone's pockets, there is nothing left to spend on anything beside the bare essentials.
    Thats no cinema tickets, no tv's, no cars, not new house purchases, no new shoes, no new clothes, no inner country holidays or trips, no meals in restaurants and on and on and on...
    ...All adding up to the effect that jobs in all those businesses and more will be cut because the money is not coming in at a rate that will even cover wages and basic running costs.


    ...And we are not spending it, our useless next government is spending it.
    Let's get that correct.
    O' sure the FG and Labour supporters will default to their usual PR spin that "as we elected them, we are to blame" - well how about "as we elected them, we expect them to cut their cloth to suit THEIR measure also" ???
    For example, instead of spending 70 million on a six month job of taking over an EU role (where others previously did the same job for 30 million), they do similar as previous? (LINK)
    Maybe they should stop from spending millions on doing up some dole offices (I say SOME - not all) when in some cases its not as necessary or as urgent?
    (LINK)
    How about they cut back on the rule breaking wages that they are yet again paying out to the big boys and girls while the lower levels are cut with no mercy?
    ...And thats just three off the top of my head!

    The vast majority are paying our share - in everything we have bought for years, decades, months and days!
    Don't dare come here and try (by accident or design) espouse that we are not paying our share already!
    Every time we flick a light on, turn on the heating, start-up the car, drive on our roads, stop and buy something and do many more things - all with vat/tax/charge inclusive, that we are not paying our share?

    There is only so much fcuking blood you can get out of a body - but if your suck the bloody body dry - it dies and it will spend no bloody more!
    Stick around and then see the side effects of that!


  • Options
    #256
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    mfceiling wrote: »
    What happens if they arrive at your door and you reply with...."no thanks lads, I can't afford the €300 for the meter so I don't want it"...

    Not much, as I don't think they'll do that.

    Ultimately they'll adjust your TFA cert to collect. Alternatively they'll reduce you SW entitlement. Some legislation required, but they are showing decent intent in fairness.


  • Options
    #257
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Biggins wrote: »
    The vast majority is paying their share one way or another.

    What some people can't seem to grasp is that taxing nearly everything possible is NOT going to end the pain of austerity.
    In fact it can be argued that it might prolong it.

    If you take money out of everyone's pockets, there is nothing left to spend on anything beside the bare essentials.
    Thats no cinema tickets, no tv's, no cars, not new house purchases, no new shoes, no new clothes, no inner country holidays or trips, no meals in restaurants and on and on and on...
    ...All adding up to the effect that jobs in all those businesses and more will be cut because the money is not coming in at a rate that will even cover wages and basic running costs.


    ...And we are not spending it, our useless next government is spending it.
    Let's get that correct.
    O' sure the FG and Labour supporters will default to their usual PR spin that "as we elected them, we are to blame" - well how about "as we elected them, we expect them to cut their cloth to suit THEIR measure also" ???
    For example, instead of spending 70 million on a six month job of taking over an EU role (where others previously did the same job for 30 million), they do similar as previous? (LINK)
    Maybe they should stop from spending millions on doing up some dole offices (I say SOME - not all) when in some cases its not as necessary or as urgent?
    (LINK)
    How about they cut back on the rule breaking wages that they are yet again paying out to the big boys and girls while the lower levels are cut with no mercy?
    ...And thats just three off the top of my head!

    The vast majority are paying out share - in everything we have bought for years, decades, months and days!
    Don't dare come here and try (by accident or design) espouse that we are not paying our share already!
    Every time we flick a light on, turn on the heating, start-up the car, drive on our roads, stop and buy something and do many more things - all with vat/tax/charge inclusive, that we are not paying our share.

    There is only so much fcuking blood you can get out of a body - but if your suck the bloody body dry - it dies and it will spend no bloody more!
    Stick around and then see the side effects of that!

    It's called an adjustment to living standards, and unfortunately there is quite a bit more to come (average Irish house probably needs to pay an additional Eur5k per annum imo). But as I've said elsewhere, Gunther has decided that he doesn't want to pay for all the things you mention anymore.

    Either you need to generate more, or else get used to this.


  • Options
    #258
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Biggins wrote: »
    The vast majority is paying their share one way or another.

    What some people can't seem to grasp is that taxing nearly everything possible is NOT going to end the pain of austerity.
    In fact it can be argued that it might prolong it.

    If you take money out of everyone's pockets, there is nothing left to spend on anything beside the bare essentials.
    Thats no cinema tickets, no tv's, no cars, not new house purchases, no new shoes, no new clothes, no inner country holidays or trips, no meals in restaurants and on and on and on...
    ...All adding up to the effect that jobs in all those businesses and more will be cut because the money is not coming in at a rate that will even cover wages and basic running costs.


    ...And we are not spending it, our useless next government is spending it.
    Let's get that correct.
    O' sure the FG and Labour supporters will default to their usual PR spin that "as we elected them, we are to blame" - well how about "as we elected them, we expect them to cut their cloth to suit THEIR measure also" ???
    For example, instead of spending 70 million on a six month job of taking over an EU role (where others previously did the same job for 30 million), they do similar as previous? (LINK)
    Maybe they should stop from spending millions on doing up some dole offices (I say SOME - not all) when in some cases its not as necessary or as urgent?
    (LINK)
    How about they cut back on the rule breaking wages that they are yet again paying out to the big boys and girls while the lower levels are cut with no mercy?
    ...And thats just three off the top of my head!

    The vast majority are paying out share - in everything we have bought for years, decades, months and days!
    Don't dare come here and try (by accident or design) espouse that we are not paying our share already!
    Every time we flick a light on, turn on the heating, start-up the car, drive on our roads, stop and buy something and do many more things - all with vat/tax/charge inclusive, that we are not paying our share.

    There is only so much fcuking blood you can get out of a body - but if your suck the bloody body dry - it dies and it will spend no bloody more!
    Stick around and then see the side effects of that!

    +1billion

    There will be a huge sector of society that this will happen to where their limited income will be spent on bills and food - living costs with nothing left over for example the unemloyed, those on minimum wage, those on the average industrial wage.

    While at the very other end of the stick at the top will continue with their over inflated pay packs and will be able for all the extra living costs.


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    #259
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    No.

    Someday you'll grasp the reality that we are spending a hell of a lot more than we are raising in tax. The way out is a combination of spending cuts and increases in taxes.

    I'm sorry for the NIMBY's like you, but you just need to chip in and pay your share (and your penalties for late payment which will help everyone else a bit).

    Don't feel sorry for me pal, I'm grand.

    Reckon I pay a hell of a lot more into the tax coffers of this country than you ever will.

    NIMBY's, whatever next??

    Fool!


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    #260
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    hilloftara wrote: »
    i have a problem with paying for these ,im broke.my well dried up after 3 yrs after costing 5 grand just for the drilling no comeback on that.and i am gettin on the local scheme and its costing me 15% of the cost and the engineer 1100 euros and now they want me to pay for meter ,will people in council houses have to pay ,such a fool for building my house

    I genuinely empathize with you on that.

    If I had the call, I'd give you a tax credit against water/installation/household charges equivalent to the cost you incurred on your original well.

    You should write to Phil. If people who spent money on Stamp Duty are getting a credit, you certainly deserve one.


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    #261
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    Don't feel sorry for me pal, I'm grand.

    Reckon I pay a hell of a lot more into the tax coffers of this country than you ever will.

    NIMBY's, whatever next??

    Fool!

    Don't be getting cranky now!!! :D

    & I certainly hope you pay more tax than me as that is in everyones interest! But you are very animated over small money then;)

    BTW, I'm not sorry for you in the slightest.


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    #262
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    ...Either you need to generate more, or else get used to this.

    The point is that there is only SO MUCH that can be generated from each person before they cross over into not being able to spend on extra's besides basics - and as we are bled more dry with every new additional charge (I'm NOT objecting to paying for water - I do have an issue with this forever 'rental' of a meter), the less there is for even the basics.

    A sack will stand up as long as its filled to a certain extent.
    ...But keep draining the sand out if it - eventually it falls down and is not use to no one!
    Thats us and the money we currently have.

    Now FG and Labour can dream up all the charges they want - but just because they can newly invent them, don't mean all or many can automatically afford to pay them!
    There has to be a point where we (our government) has to say "STOP - we cannot take any more. We are reaching a point where we are doing more harm than good now!".
    ...And if FG and labour CANNOT see that, they don't deserve to remain in government office!


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    #263
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    Don't be getting cranky now!!! :D

    & I certainly hope you pay more tax than me as that is in everyones interest! But you are very animated over small money then;)

    That, my friend is called having principles.

    Why should I be discriminated against for owning my own home?

    Give me one decent reason.


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    #264
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    Biggins wrote: »
    The point is that there is only SO MUCH that can be generated from each person before they cross over into not being able to spend on extra's besides basics - and as we are bled more dry with every new additional charge (I'm NOT objecting to paying for water - I do have an issue with this forever 'rental' of a meter), the less there is for even the basics.

    A sack will stand up as long as its filled to a certain extent.
    ...But keep draining the sand out if it - eventually it falls down and is not use to no one!
    Thats us and the money we currently have.

    Now FG and Labour can dream up all the charges they want - but just because they can newly invent them, don't mean all or many can automatically afford to pay them!
    There has to be a point where we (our government) has to say "STOP - we cannot take any more. We are reaching a point where we are doing more harm than good now!".
    ...And if FG and labour CANNOT see that, they don't deserve to remain in government office!

    But what wud you do to get the position back in balance?

    Just ignore the Bank bailout for the moment and assume we just don't pay it (which is ultimately what I feel we shud and will do).

    How wud you balance the books. You need to find Eur15bn that we currently don't have. & not the usual crap like 'do away with quango's' and 'eliminate waste'. While they are absolutely fair objectives, they won't find you 15bn or even 5% of it. So let's hear some real proposals.


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    #265
    ilovesleep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭ilovesleep


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    It's called an adjustment to living standards, and unfortunately there is quite a bit more to come (average Irish house probably needs to pay an additional Eur5k per annum imo). But as I've said elsewhere, Gunther has decided that he doesn't want to pay for all the things you mention anymore.

    Either you need to generate more, or else get used to this.



    Many people have already made adjustments. There will come a point where there won't be any more adjustments to make for many people. I suppose they could sell their television in that case to save money on a yearly tv license. Oh no but wait they are going to be hit with a broadcasting charge because just they have a mobile phone that is capable of receiving a tv signal.


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    #266
    Bishop_Donal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 615 ✭✭✭Bishop_Donal


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    That, my friend is called having principles.

    Why should I be discriminated against for owning my own home?

    Give me one decent reason.

    Gerry, I'd prefer not to engage with someone who has reduced to calling me a fool tonight, but it's about paying for the services that you use.


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    #267
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    But what wud you do to get the position back in balance?

    Just ignore the Bank bailout for the moment and assume we just don't pay it (which is ultimately what I feel we shud and will do).

    How wud you balance the books. You need to find Eur15bn that we currently don't have. & not the usual crap like 'do away with quango's' and 'eliminate waste'. While they are absolutely fair objectives, they won't find you 15bn or even 5% of it. So let's hear some real proposals.

    The only way to balance the books is by getting people off the dole and back to work.
    Maybe enda & co should concentrate their energies a bit more on the domestic side of the economy considering the FDI end of things seems to doing reasonably well.


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    #268
    lugha
    Registered Users Posts: 3,235 ✭✭✭lugha


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    That, my friend is called having principles.

    Why should I be discriminated against for owning my own home?

    Give me one decent reason.
    Are you not equally concerned about paying a discriminatory motor tax, and a portion of that tax is (the excess beyond what is needed to maintain the road network)?

    Oh, and we are in the wrong thread! :)


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    #269
    Bullseye1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    The current government has got to concentrate on the domestic economy. Putting all their eggs in exports has done nothing. We need to get 400,000 people back to work in the private sector.


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    #270
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    Gerry, I'd prefer not to engage with someone who has reduced to calling me a fool tonight, but it's about paying for the services that you use.

    You were called a fool in reply to your previous condescending post to me.

    Don't be so condescending and you won't be called a fool.


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    #271
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Bishop_Donal wrote: »
    But what wud you do to get the position back in balance?

    Just ignore the Bank bailout for the moment and assume we just don't pay it (which is ultimately what I feel we shud and will do).

    How wud you balance the books. You need to find Eur15bn that we currently don't have. & not the usual crap like 'do away with quango's' and 'eliminate waste'. While they are absolutely fair objectives, they won't find you 15bn or even 5% of it. So let's hear some real proposals.

    Well you have already mention possible cutting of quango's so thats one!
    * Amalgamation of certain departments?
    * Look into ways where certain jobs are repeated in office's by different people at the same time?
    * Stop this crap about the Croke Park agreement, that it can't be addressed and reassessed!
    * Here's a novel one. Luxury goods...
    For example, a mobile phone. If one costs over a certain figure say (JUST for example), €250 - you sure as hell can afford to pay an extra €20 in tax?
    * Sounds silly but an extra cent or two on texts? A few million there will help a hospital or emergency fire, etc service somewhere?
    * Stop paying money to criminals while they are all in prison? How much does on average each one get weekly, while they are in there, getting paid for sitting and lying around?
    * Stop social welfare money going bloody abroad? For kids that were once here - or NEVER was here in the first place but their parents are able to claim for them?

    Thats just a few quick ones (which can be obviously shot holes in of course. They are far from perfect ideas) off me head again!


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