Disgusted by Catholics

fryup wrote: »

:rolleyes:what not one?

give me a break the nazi wouldn't have obtained power if they didn't have some support amongst the catholic population of germany

and lets not forget both Austria and Italy (catholic countries) were nazi germanys closest allies during the war

Dont be silly.
I dont know how every single individual votd.
Catholics as a group didnt vote for Hitler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_March_1933

http://romanchristendom.blogspot.com/2008/10/face-it-protestant-areas-voted-for.html


http://www.churchinhistory.org/pages/booklets/rise%28n%29-1.htm
see chapter III

really well why did the vatican send the papal nuncio to meet Hitler on several occasions ??

Apparently Chamberlain the British Prime Minister also met him . I guess he must have been a Nazi too? Obviously States send ambassorord to meet people from other Stats. that is what the papal Nuncio is!

GarIT wrote: »

I'm not sticking around here, its pointless talking to people that will never learn and that all that's on here.

The one thing I want to finish with is for ISAW you don't see it but everyone else does. The idea of priests fiddling with kids is like the idea of Bertie Ahern fiddling with his finances, everyone knew it was happening but there was a cover up and nothing could be proven. You have fun wasting your life trying to preach to educated people that wouldn't ever consider returning to the church and good luck to all.

run away if you wish it is quite obvious you cant support your claims.
i never made any claim about belonging to any church!
Im just fed up people having a go at the church, fianna fail, bankers, Saddam or any other scapêgoat. Yes some people did wrong but in perspective the faults are far greater outside the scapegoated groups others use to excuse their own buying into a myth. A myth promulgated by bigots who themselves preach and spread hate.

robindch wrote: »

I'm not going to engage you in a discussion about this any more than I'm going to try and convince you that the 6.5% figure is accurate,

It isnt accurate and you cant support it despite saying you could.
You then tried 4% as a climbdown but couldnt support that either.

That said, not only did Roman Catholics vote, directly and indirectly, for Hitler,

Wrong again! Wher are your stats?

Here are mine
Distrobutions of Nazi vote and demographics of Catholic population.
One is the negative image of the other -co incidence?

http://www.churchinhistory.org/images/hitler-rise/map3&4.jpg


http://www.churchinhistory.org/images/hitler-rise/map5&6.jpg

NAZI CARTOONS At first attacks were made against `political` sections of the Church, while friendship was professed to those Catholics `loyal to Germany`. After the 1937 Encyclical, the Church herself was accused of supporting Jewish Communist plots against Germany. Cardinal Pacelli became Pope Pius XII twenty months later. The first cartoon is from: `Das Schwarze Korps, July 22nd, 1937. Humanité was a Communist newspaper. The second from: `Der Heidelberger Student, May 4th, 1935. It shows a Nazi exposing Jews, Jesuits and Freemasons plotting together.

http://www.churchinhistory.org/images/hitler-rise/cartoons.jpg

but catholics provided the vital support that Hitler needed to pass the Enabling Act which provided Hitler with dictatorial powers he wanted. The support came from the catholic "Center Party" under the leadership of the catholic priest, Ludwig Kaas, a man who was well known in the Vatican's highest circles and who did much work to bring about the Reichskonkordat between the Vatican and the Nazi state.

wrong. again!
On 28th March 1930, the Centre's leader, Heinrich Bruning formed a government with less than 16% of Representatives supporting him. These were those of the two Catholic parties, the Centre and the Bavarian. The President had to use his emergency powers to put legislation into effect. Following the elections of 14th September 1930, Bruning's Catholic Parties continued to run the country. In these latest elections the Nazis had gained a surprising 18.3% of the vote.

Immediately after these elections, in which the National Socialist Party had emerged as a major force, the bishop of Mainz excommunicated all Catholic members of the party in his diocese, and banned uniformed groups entering churches . He also gave instructions that party members would not be allowed to take an official part in funerals and other services . The other bishops decided to await the annual bishops' Conferences, so as to be able to formulate a united policy. In Rome the Osservatore Romano of October 11th 1930 commented: "Belonging to the National Socialist Party of Hitler is irreconcilable with the Catholic Conscience." In his New Year message, Cardinal Bertram of Breslau condemned extreme nationalism, without specifying the Nazi Party

The decree 'was the fundamental emergency law upon which the National Socialist dictatorship . . . was primarily based'. It was more important than the later Enabling Act of March 24th

the President issued a decree granting the government emergency powers. This decree remained in force until 1945. The decree stipulated:­

1. Suspension of all the basic rights of the citizen. [This was an unlimited power of arrest, interrogation, imprisonment, searches, phone tapping, censorship, and authority to ban meetings, organisations and publications].

2. Authorised the Reich government to assume full powers in any federal state whose government proved unable or unwilling to restore public order and security.

3. Order death or imprisonment for treason, assault upon a member of the government, arson in public buildings, incitement to riot, and resistance to the provisions of the decree.

Hitler permitted the 5th of March elections to proceed.

A very high poll of 88.5 % gave its verdict:­

The Hitler-led Coalition 52% (Nazi 44%, Nationalists 8%).
Democratic Parties 36% (Socialist 18%, Centre 14%, others 4%).
Communists 12%

The 35 electoral districts may be classified into 21 Protestant, 7 Catholic and 7 mixed. The Nazis achieved over 50% of the vote in 7 constituencies, all strongly Protestant. When we include the Nationalist vote we find that the coalition gained over 50% in 20 constituencies (13 Protestant, 3 mixed and none Catholic). In only 6 constituencies was the combined anti-Democratic totalitarian vote (Communist and Nazi) less than 50%. Five of these were Catholic and one mixed.

THE ANTI-DEMOCRATIC VOTE IN MARCH 1933

Nazi/Nazi and Nationalist/Nazi, Nationalist and Communist/Nazi and Communist/
MAINLY PROTESTANT Areas
1 East Prussia
+ 56.5
67.8
76.5
65.2
2 Berlin
31.3
40.4
70.5
61.4*
3 Potsdam II
38.2
52.2
70.0
56.0*
4 Potsdam I
44.4
56.1
74.1
62.4*
5 Frankfurt on Oder
55.2
66.3
73.7
62.6
6 Pomerania
56.3
+73.3
+80.9
63.9
7 Breslau
50.2
57.3
65.5
58.4
8 Liegnitz
54.0
63.1
69.8
60.7
10 Magdeburg
47.3
58.0
68.6
57.9
11 Merseburg
46.4
58.3
79.8
67.9*
12 Thuringia
47.2
58.7
73.9
62.4
13 Schleswig-Holstein
53.2
63.3
74.0
63.9
15 East Hanover
54.3
65.6
73.1
61.8
16 South Hanover-Brunswick
48.7
56.3
63.8
56.2
19 Hesse-Nassau
49.4
54.3
63.3
53.4
28 Dresden-Bautzen
43.6
51.3
64.7
57.0
29 Leipzig
40.0
46.5
63.9
57.4*
30 Chemnitz-Zwickau
50.0
55.4
74.4
+ 69.0*
33 Hesse-Darmstadt
47.4
50.3
61.2
58.3
34 Hamburg
38.9
46.9
64.5
56.5*
35 Mecklenburg
48.0
62.9
70.3
55.4

MIXED
9 Oppeln
43.2
50.7
59.9
52.4
14 Weser-Ems
41.4
52.0
59.9
49.3
22 East Dusseldorf
37.4
44.2
66.7
59.9*
26 Franconia
45.7
51.1
56.1
50.7
27 Palatinate
46.5
49.0
58.0
55.5
31 Wurttemberg
42.0
47.1
56.3
51.2
32 Baden
45.4
50.0
59.8
55.2

MAINLY CATHOLIC
17 North Westphalia
34.9
41.7
52.4
45.6
18 South Westphalia
33.8
40.3
57.1
50.6
20 Cologne-Aachen
x 30.1
x 35.8
50.0
x 44.3
21 Koblenz-Trier
38.4
44.5
50.5
44.4
23 West Dusseldorf
35.2
43.2
58.7
50.7
24 Upper Bavaria-Swabia
40.9
45.3
52.3
47.9
25 Lower Bavaria
39.2
41.2
x 46.4
44.4
ALL GERMANY
43.9
51.9
64.2
56.2

thems the actual stats
they show catholic areas didnt vote for Hitler!

The vote for the Catholic parties rose in 1933, although the high poll caused their percentage to fall. This indicates that the Nazi vote in Catholic areas was drawn mainly from those who normally supported non-­Catholic parties (i.e. the non-Catholic minority, lapsed Catholics and those who lacked wholehearted loyalty to their Faith and Bishops).