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Disgusted by Catholics

2456

Comments

  • #32
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    GarIT wrote: »
    http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news3/2003_01_15_Fenske_GoodPriest_Joseph_Lang.htm

    You offer this as evidence of five cases of colludion a week currently?

    1. It does not refer to Ireland but to the Us and Canada ...no matter.
    2. "Most of the allegations, Miller says, predated the 1990s. "
    3. "Even Bishop Gerald Wiesner, appointed five years after Lang's arrival in British Columbia, didn't know of his past,"
    4. "almost all the allegations against local priests came before the 1999 revision"
    5. "Even more heartbreaking, some victims had told "mandatory reporters" like teachers, who failed to make a report." -teachers state officials not Chruch ones
    6. "Consider Lang. The diocesan source is convinced the priest's move to Canada was no coincidence. Arguing that the diocese moved him to avoid repercussions isn't much of a stretch."

    in other words this is a possible case of a US bishop moving an abusing priest. Even if true it is hardly "widespread" or a "pedophile ring" is it?


  • #33
    SteppingStone
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 107 ✭✭SteppingStone


    Disgusted by you!


  • #34
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    GarIT wrote: »
    I agree on the Fr Reynolds case, but its funny how one of the about 15 priests on that show disagreed with what was said about them.

    no it isnt funny. it is you saying you agree with something and then trying to case doubt in it.
    It is also a sweeping statement for you to say there is a higher power. It is not for me to prove you wrong it is for you to prove yourself right.

    where did i say that? "High court" was what i mentioned.


  • #35
    Wile E. Coyote
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,559 ✭✭✭Wile E. Coyote


    GarIT wrote: »
    I'm sick of this, you have seen it all already. Ignorance haha, go and ask your magical superpower father that somehow designed you, impregnated a virgin and claims to be compassionate and leaves 3 billion people without the basic necessities to survive.

    You asked the question and started the thread but now because it hasn't turned into a big anti catholic rant you decide you're sick of it and have a childish pop at someone who disagrees with you?

    Not everyone who calls themselves catholic agrees with everything the church has done. They have faith in their believe and who are you question them?

    Do people who call themselves German also disgust you? They started both world wars and killed millions. How about anyone who calls themselves British? Apart from what they did in Ireland they spent hundreds of years murdering millions while going around colonising the world.


  • #36
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    SteppingStone wrote: »
    Disgusted by you!

    try dealing with the argument instead of attacking the person making it.


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  • #37
    ISAW
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,142 ✭✭✭ISAW


    GarIT wrote: »
    I'm sick of this, you have seen it all already. Ignorance haha, go and ask your magical superpower father that somehow designed you, impregnated a virgin and claims to be compassionate and leaves 3 billion people without the basic necessities to survive.
    ...
    No, that was one of my points. Saying you are a Catholic means you support the Catholic Church in its actions. Saying you are Christian only means you only believe.

    does anyone wonder if this poster is anti Catholic?


  • #38
    Balmed Out
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,705 ✭✭✭Balmed Out


    Disgusted by Catholics Irish

    Is anyone else just disgusted by people that say they are Catholic Irish
    ? There are so many sick minded people in that organisation country that anyone that calls themselves Catholics Irish
    just turns my stomach. How could anyone support what has been done. In my eyes anyone that says they are Catholics Irish
    is saying that paedophilia is acceptable because it clearly wasn't enough to turn them away. The organisation country of the Catholics Irish
    has so many corrupt representatives that I would consider anyone that could stand by them a sick minded person. There are many other good Christian religions nations that basically believe the same thing and that don't have the same history of paedophile rings, child porn, and physical abuse. Why would anyone be Catholics Irish
    ?


    Im not a pactising catholic or believer but I think the horrible actions of many in our history and the story surrounding it shows failures in our whole society as well as the church. Yes the church needs to kop itself on and move away from its medieval mindset but you cant just parcel all of the blame on it.

    Should we ban swimming too? Two (or even 3?) national team coaches of the past have been either paedo or pedrophilles.

    What about the scouts?


  • #39
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Balmed Out wrote: »
    Yes the church needs to kop itself on and move away from its medieval mindset but you cant just parcel all of the blame on it.

    Well who else is to blame for the church failing to deal with the problem of church members abusing children? Is it the government's fault that known abusers were moved about to different parishes so they could offend again? Is it perhaps Revenue to blame for priests being told not to report their colleagues to the authorities? Maybe it was Coilte who tried to shift the blame on to gay people, non-catholics, and even the victims themselves?

    I'm afraid that yes, you CAN blame the church for the church's problems. And you can blame them entirely for it. They have nobody to blame but themselves. Nobody else is to blame for their failure to deal with it, or their frankly mind-boggling attempts to weasel out of responsibility.

    Should we ban swimming too? Two (or even 3?) national team coaches of the past have been either paedo or pedrophilles.

    What about the scouts?

    How many swimming coaches and scout leaders continue to be swimming coaches and scout leaders after it emerges they've raped children? Are they just moved to different swimming pools and camps?


  • #40
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    No I am not disgusted by catholics , why should I be ? The organisation maybe but individuals catholics not at all.

    I am sure all of them are as revolted as you are .


  • #41
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Wile E. Coyote wrote: »
    You asked the question and started the thread but now because it hasn't turned into a big anti catholic rant you decide you're sick of it and have a childish pop at someone who disagrees with you?

    Not everyone who calls themselves catholic agrees with everything the church has done. They have faith in their believe and who are you question them?

    Do people who call themselves German also disgust you? They started both world wars and killed millions. How about anyone who calls themselves British? Apart from what they did in Ireland they spent hundreds of years murdering millions while going around colonising the world.

    See this is where people don't understand. Saying I am Catholic means "I agree with everything the catholic church says". That is the rules of the church, you you don't agree with what they do you are not catholic. If you say "I am a Christian" it means you believe in Jesus, god and everything else.
    ISAW wrote: »
    does anyone wonder if this poster is anti Catholic?

    No, I think they all know the answer.
    ISAW wrote: »
    no it isnt funny. it is you saying you agree with something and then trying to case doubt in it.


    where did i say that? "High court" was what i mentioned.

    I agree that one of those priests was innocent of one of the crimes he was accused of, all the others I believe are guilty.

    It is nothing to do with what you said, it was an assumption. I doubt an atheist would preach all day about how they believe in god.


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  • #42
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    marienbad wrote: »
    No I am not disgusted by catholics , why should I be ? The organisation maybe but individuals catholics not at all.

    I am sure all of them are as revolted as you are .

    But saying that you are catholic means you support them, why not be any of the other Christian denominations.

    How anyone could want to be a member of an organisation that supports this baffles me http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056598505


  • #43
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    GarIT wrote: »
    Why would anyone be a Catholic?
    Right question, wrong attitude.

    /thread


  • #44
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    robindch wrote: »
    Right question, wrong attitude.

    /thread

    It probably was. I just think if I was a devout Catholic one bad priest would be enough to make me leave. Even if I agreed with everything the church said I'd be gone after the Incident in N.I. never mind anything else that went on.


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    GarIT wrote: »
    Is anyone else just disgusted by people that say they are Catholic?

    King Billy's On The Wall........


    AMIRITE? ;)


  • #46
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Deleted User wrote: »
    King Billy's On The Wall........


    AMIRITE? ;)

    Nope, I'm a nationalist, I'm just not religious.


  • #47
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,029 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Your disgust should probably flow out to wider civil society too.

    There was a serious dearth of civil courage in this country and a lot more people knew what was going on in the RCC than care to admit imho.


  • #48
    the culture of deference
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,145 ✭✭✭the culture of deference


    phutyle wrote: »
    I have to say, I'm not. I'm diametrically opposed to almost every tenet of the RCC, I believe that the very way in which it's organised is corrupt, bigoted and megalomaniacal.


    catholics are indoctrinated, which means they are incapable of rational questioning. you see it by the way ISAW posts.

    ISAW aside from abusing children and covering it up

    what about 50,000 kidnap adoptions and selling babies around the world

    nazi assistance in WW2

    extermination of natives in the USA, crusades,


  • #49
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    No I'm not disgusted. If I was to follow your logic I should also be disgusted by people who call themselves German because people carried out the holocaust in the name of Germany. Or I should be disgusted by Americans because crimes have been carried out under the banner of American patriotism.

    If on the other hand , if was part of the catholic ethos to abuse children or ,if it was something they preached then of course I'd be disgusted. But they don't.

    Some people will always abuse their positions of power. It certainly isn't unique to the catholic church. Plenty of non catholic boarding schools in the UK and swimming clubs, creches etc have had major child abuse scandals. Its a human problem, not one restricted to the catholic church.

    I'm not religious, but I think your logic, i.e that someone saying they are a catholic is essentially the same as saying they agree with paedophilia, is ridiculous.


  • #50
    WolfgangWeisen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭WolfgangWeisen


    I'm surprised so many here are pandering to the exploits of what is clearly a troll.

    Anyway, no, I'm not disgusted when people tell me they're a Catholic, simply because the overwhelming majority of those saying it simply do not even know what being a Catholic is. I feel nothing but pity for them, and anger at society for not having evolved sufficiently yet to have discarded such superstitious nonsense. Their eagerness to label themselves as a Catholic shows their insecurity and sheer ignorance and is a failing of their parents, our education system and indeed science itself to spread its beautiful knowledge into the minds of said people.

    Nay, not disgust. The only people who "disgust" me are those who claim science and religion are compatible.


  • #51
    GarIT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,641 ✭✭✭GarIT


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    No I'm not disgusted. If I was to follow your logic I should also be disgusted by people who call themselves German because people carried out the holocaust in the name of Germany. Or I should be disgusted by Americans because crimes have been carried out under the banner of American patriotism.

    If on the other hand , if was part of the catholic ethos to abuse children or ,if it was something they preached then of course I'd be disgusted. But they don't.

    Some people will always abuse their positions of power. It certainly isn't unique to the catholic church. Plenty of non catholic boarding schools in the UK and swimming clubs, creches etc have had major child abuse scandals. Its a human problem, not one restricted to the catholic church.

    I'm not religious, but I think your logic, i.e that someone saying they are a catholic is essentially the same as saying they agree with paedophilia, is ridiculous.

    No its not the world wars were in the past, the church are still doing things like this in modern day. And I've never heard a German person say they were proud of Hitler, but loads of people are probably proud of the pope.

    Anyone else would loose their power when something happens, Catholics just get moved to countries that don't have extradition.


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  • #52
    nickcave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 300 ✭✭nickcave


    ISAW wrote: »
    which is a report into the Dublin diocese? and not of the other 10,000 or so diocese in the world
    http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/diocese/la.html

    anyway where does it show "widespread collusion" even within the Dublin Diocese?

    Yes is does regard the archdiocese of Dublin. I don't follow you. Are you saying that Dublin is some sort of priest-paedophile 'hotspot' and that child sex abuse by clergy members is somehow exclusive there? Even a glance at the facts would show that, within Ireland, this isn't restricted to Dublin. It is similarly not restricted to Ireland
    where does it show two or more bishops meeting and decide to "cover up"...

    From the Murphy Report: "no doubt that clerical child sexual abuse was covered up"

    Oh.

    Now I don't expect for a minute that you'll back down from your fervent defense of your Church, but this sort of stuff really rubs off badly - for you and for other Christians. Despite an overwhelming consensus (and several legal reports to boot) that child sex abuse was systemic in the Catholic Church in Ireland - and that is was covered up - you will deny, deny and deny, poking dubious holes ("it's just the Dublin diocese, there are lots of other dioceses") in the findings of government-appointed commissions.

    Let's face it - the reason you deny all this isn't because of some key findings that everyone else missed, or because the reports were biased or unjust or erroneous in any way. The reason you take the stance you have is because you're a Christian - Catholic, I'll assume - and all this is pretty damning for you to take.


  • #53
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    GarIT wrote: »
    No its not the world wars were in the past, the church are still doing things like this in modern day. And I've never heard a German person say they were proud of Hitler, but loads of people are probably proud of the pope..

    Oh sorry I forgot we in the west live in a utopia now don't we? Our countries no longer engage in any brutal or immoral acts.

    i've never heard a catholic say they were "proud" of child abuse either.

    The point is the Catholic church does not preach child abuse. Its structures enabled evil people to operate within its walls. I'm sorry but anyone who thinks that being a catholic, or entering the catholic church will magically turn you into a child abuser, is an idiot.

    Abuse was rife in the catholic church as an institution, but its not what the religion preaches.

    Why stop with the catholic church? Maybe being Irish is the determining factor in making paedophiles? Why aren't we disgusted at people claiming to be Irish? After all the vast majority of abuse cases in America were carried out by Irish/ Irish-american priests. Likewise, Ireland has a far higher rate of child abuse then other catholic countries like Spain, Italy, or France.... Maybe the determining factor is in fact being Irish....not being catholic.


  • #54
    WolfgangWeisen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭WolfgangWeisen


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    i've never heard a catholic say they were "proud" of child abuse either.

    No, nor have I. I have heard Catholics try downplay it and the sheer amount of it in the Church though, something which is equally reprehensible.

    There are active evils being carried out that a lot of Catholics are happy to stand by though. The oppression of gays, the rejection of a woman's choice to do what she may want with her body, the condemnation of those who use contraception, the suppression of contraception in uneducated, poverty stricken countries thus helping the spread of HIV/AIDS, the "charity" drives for places like Haiti where instead of using the money gained for emergency supplies and things that they need, using the money to pay to send bibles to those suffering there.

    The list is endless and is occupied with evils that the Church carry out every single day in 2012 and on a global scale. That is without even breaching the subject of the historical atrocities committed at the hands of the Catholic church.

    So the abuse may not be something that their followers will openly claim to be proud of, however they stand in silent support of the organisation and its evils regardless and actively support some of the above mentioned evils.

    The Fine Gael Ard Fheis resulted in what will likely be a referendum on gay marriage in Ireland. We will get to see first hand the damage the Church does on a daily basis here when we see their drones flock to vote against giving ordinary, decent human beings equal rights, simply because they were born very slightly differently.


  • #55
    Carlos_Ray
    Closed Accounts Posts: 685 ✭✭✭Carlos_Ray


    WolfgangWeisen wrote: »
    No, nor have I. I have heard Catholics try downplay it and the sheer amount of it in the Church though, something which is equally reprehensible.

    There are active evils being carried out that a lot of Catholics are happy to stand by though. The oppression of gays, the rejection of a woman's choice to do what she may want with her body, the condemnation of those who use contraception, the suppression of contraception in uneducated, poverty stricken countries thus helping the spread of HIV/AIDS, the "charity" drives for places like Haiti where instead of using the money gained for emergency supplies and things that they need, using the money to pay to send bibles to those suffering there.

    The list is endless and is occupied with evils that the Church carry out every single day in 2012 and on a global scale. That is without even breaching the subject of the historical atrocities committed at the hands of the Catholic church.

    So the abuse may not be something that their followers will openly claim to be proud of, however they stand in silent support of the organisation and its evils regardless and actively support some of the above mentioned evils.

    The Fine Gael Ard Fheis resulted in what will likely be a referendum on gay marriage in Ireland. We will get to see first hand the damage the Church does on a daily basis here when we see their drones flock to vote against giving ordinary, decent human beings equal rights, simply because they were born very slightly differently.


    I understand, but the same can be said about the other main religions too. I took issue with the OP because he seemed to be singling out one religion using the issue of child abuse as the foundation of his argument. Which standing alone is a pretty week stance.

    You're right about everything you say about the catholic church, but the same applies to Judaism, Islam, and other branches of Christianity. Just look at protestant bible belt america, its one of the most homophobic areas in the world. Woman and gay men are regularly killed in Muslim countries for committing "crimes against" religion. The point is the problems are not unique to Catholicism by any stretch of the imagination.


  • #56
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,473 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    GarIT wrote: »
    robindch wrote: »
    Right question, wrong attitude.
    It probably was.
    OK, now that I've reached dry land and the thread has calmed down...

    ...prithee continue, but please be aware that your first post was well out of order. Please check out the forum charter for the rules that pertain hereabouts.


  • #57
    WolfgangWeisen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 238 ✭✭WolfgangWeisen


    Carlos_Ray wrote: »
    I understand, but the same can be said about the other main religions too. I took issue with the OP because he seemed to be singling out one religion using the issue of child abuse as the foundation of his argument. Which standing alone is a pretty week stance.

    You're right about everything you say about the catholic church, but the same applies to Judaism, Islam, and other branches of Christianity. Just look at protestant bible belt america, its one of the most homophobic areas in the world. Woman and gay men are regularly killed in Muslim countries for committing "crimes against" religion. The point is the problems are not unique to Catholicism by any stretch of the imagination.

    I don't think anyone is claiming that the other world religions aren't guilty of historical and ongoing atrocities, however as Catholicism is the most felt here, with 84% of the population here claiming to be devout members (;)), I don't see the issue in singling it out for discussion.

    I can understand the frustration with Catholicism here and I've no issue with people venting it and not explicitly condemning the other religions while doing so. It's not Islam that has us unable to buy alcohol today, it's not Islam that is preventing gay people from enjoying the same rights as heterosexuals here, it's not Islam that is indoctrinating the nation's children, on the bill of the taxpayer.

    There's lots and lots of evil going on in the world, and it can be discussed singly or en mass, however none of those evils are as greatly felt here as those of the Catholic church.


  • #58
    marienbad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    GarIT wrote: »
    But saying that you are catholic means you support them, why not be any of the other Christian denominations.

    How anyone could want to be a member of an organisation that supports this baffles me http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=2056598505


    Yeah, but you could just as easily say whats the point of being a member of the human race when we are capable of xyz.

    Or is'nt it despicable being Irish (German, Jewish , etc etc) when we are capable of abc.

    You are talking about individual catholics here and not the organisation.

    To be honest yours is an appalling point of view .


  • #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,352 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    GarIT wrote: »
    Nope, I'm a nationalist not sectarian, I'm just not religious I just hate Catholics.

    Fixed that for you.


  • #60
    qrrgprgua
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 786 ✭✭✭qrrgprgua


    GarIT wrote: »
    Is anyone else just disgusted by people that say they are Catholic? There are so many sick minded people in that organisation that anyone that calls themselves a Roman Catholic just turns my stomach. How could anyone support what has been done. In my eyes anyone that says they are Catholic is saying that paedophilia is acceptable because it clearly wasn't enough to turn them away. The organisation of the Roman Catholic Church has so many corrupt representatives that I would consider anyone that could stand by them a sick minded person. There are many other good Christian religions that basically believe the same thing and that don't have the same history of paedophile rings, child porn, and physical abuse. Why would anyone be a Catholic?


    What a load of ****..... Come on use your intelligence a little.

    That organisation.. The Catholic Church is all its members (including 86% of Irish some practising others not. )


    There has not be one single new case of abuse reported in the last decade of abuse committed by an Irish priest in the last decade.

    As long as any organisation has human beings in it you will have failings and sinners. Every church has.

    There is still a lot of sexual abuse in Irish of children and its not by Priests, its by Family members, Family Friends, Traffickers

    I am not ashamed at all to call myself Catholic. I live the catholic faith faithfully, I have not abused or know anyone who has abused. And there are many Catholics like me. Like any family if one family member is a criminal it does not mean the whole family is a criminal. Sexual abuse coverup was wrong, how the church dealt with it was wrong. But the abuse also happening in Protestant Church/GAA/Teachers and it was also coverup in those organisations. The most important is to root out/Reform and move on which the Catholic Church has done.


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  • #61
    BunShopVoyeur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,268 ✭✭✭BunShopVoyeur


    GarIT wrote: »
    Is anyone else just disgusted by people that say they are Catholic? There are so many sick minded people in that organisation that anyone that calls themselves a Roman Catholic just turns my stomach. How could anyone support what has been done. In my eyes anyone that says they are Catholic is saying that paedophilia is acceptable because it clearly wasn't enough to turn them away. The organisation of the Roman Catholic Church has so many corrupt representatives that I would consider anyone that could stand by them a sick minded person. There are many other good Christian religions that basically believe the same thing and that don't have the same history of paedophile rings, child porn, and physical abuse. Why would anyone be a Catholic?

    They don't disgust me at all. I just see them as a bit thick tbh.


This discussion has been closed.
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