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Extra services for Nenagh branch!

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Comments

  • #102
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Late again this morning. Quick action will be needed as this is screwing over the Waterford-Carlow trains which are lifting a lot more than is coming out of Ballybrophy. The problem is apparently is that the schedule assumes the branch train will reach the 4 track section and enter the slow track and the Waterford will pull up behind into the fast, but instead is being stuck behind because the branch train has not departed the section ahead into the slow track.


  • #103
    kc56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭kc56


    dowlingm wrote: »
    Late again this morning. Quick action will be needed as this is screwing over the Waterford-Carlow trains which are lifting a lot more than is coming out of Ballybrophy. The problem is apparently is that the schedule assumes the branch train will reach the 4 track section and enter the slow track and the Waterford will pull up behind into the fast, but instead is being stuck behind because the branch train has not departed the section ahead into the slow track.

    The Waterford train is NOT affected at present as the Nenagh train is running late and runing after the Waterford. It is however delaying the 0725 ex Portlaoise and possible the 0515 ex Westport and maybe others.

    The only time this week that the 0600 from Waterford was late was when the 0530 from Limerick, via Thurles, was 30 mins late.

    The Nenagh train needs to be on-time to get to Cherryville before the Waterford train.


  • #104
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    thanks kc56 my mistake.

    I think the IE braintrust will have to work fast to fix this. If uplift is not being seen at Castleconnell, Birdhill and Cloughjordan then those stops should be skipped which would save maybe 3-4 minutes (since the train would have to slow through Birdhill for the token presumably). Castleconnell to Dublin commuting is always going to be hampered by the later, quicker Junction services and 90% of its catchment being between it and Colbert.

    It's starting to look like the best options are to revert to a 2800 set shuttle which gets to Ballybrophy to meet the 0505 Cork at 0653 or to follow it up the mainline with a transfer at Portlaoise. The Limerick 22K set would simply be part of the Dublin suburban roster which is probably when IE intended before AK asked them nicely for a choochoo from Nenagh.


  • #105
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    My eyes nearly rolled back in my head when I saw the Letters to the Editor in Nenagh Guardian (page NG11) - some of the letter was reproduced on RUI board.
    http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODE/NenaghGuardian/

    It became a bit clearer when a google search revealed a person of the same name and town to be a member of Nenagh Rail Partnership.


  • #106
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    dowlingm wrote: »
    My eyes nearly rolled back in my head when I saw the Letters to the Editor in Nenagh Guardian (page NG11) - some of the letter was reproduced on RUI board.
    http://digital.olivesoftware.com/Olive/ODE/NenaghGuardian/

    It became a bit clearer when a google search revealed a person of the same name and town to be a member of Nenagh Rail Partnership.

    That's a bit odd considering campaigning by the Rail Partnership was the reason a half decent commuter service was introduced on the line and the new timetable does away with it. Ridiculous letter all the same.


  • #107
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    IE have been forced to take action on the Nenagh service. According to RUI boards as of today departure ex Limerick has been advanced to 0510 and departure from Ballybrophy goes back seven minutes. This now forms the 0725 Portlaoise-Heuston which presumably moves back to 0716 to cover the gap. I am totally taking credit for this :D:P No mention on IE twitter or timetable page on the website - plus ca change.

    According to the IE basketcase realtime feed it looks like it may have been a few minutes late anyway but I can't be sure because some of it is manual entry I understand and the Killonan-Portlaoise section has no timing info being under manual staff.

    http://api.irishrail.ie/realtime/realtime.asmx/getTrainMovementsXML?TrainId=a409&TrainDate=15%20mar%202012

    According to one poster there who I'm not sure if they post here, much of the issue is speed restrictions Killonan-Birdhill but also that speed is heavily restricted (i.e. walking pace) from the platform to Ennis Junction.


  • #108
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,921 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    As I said in post #94 above this review and change was inevitable (and would be done in the normal course of events) and is a common sense solution.

    I imagine the problems are indeed stemming from TSRs on the branch.


  • #109
    kc56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 433 ✭✭kc56


    dowlingm wrote: »

    According to the IE basketcase realtime feed it looks like it may have been a few minutes late anyway but I can't be sure because some of it is manual entry I understand and the Killonan-Portlaoise section has no timing info being under manual staff.

    http://api.irishrail.ie/realtime/realtime.asmx/getTrainMovementsXML?TrainId=a409&TrainDate=15%20mar%202012

    According to one poster there who I'm not sure if they post here, much of the issue is speed restrictions Killonan-Birdhill but also that speed is heavily restricted (i.e. walking pace) from the platform to Ennis Junction.

    Actually, timings should be OK once it's on the mainline from Ballybrophy to Heuston. It was about 4 mins late all the way from Portlaoise.

    The 'basketcase realtime' works well and is usually quite accurate on the Kildare-Heuston section but it does have its moments like losing trains. Its weakness is not knowing which train will pass thorugh Cheeryville first if the 0600 from Waterford is a few minutes late.


  • #110
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,244 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    The situation with the branch and it's TSR's is down to the fact that it has not been completely tamped, packed and tested after the programme of relaying and reballasting. This is due to the fact that PW budgets have been cut and priorities are currently directed at ongoing work on the Cork line and routine work as needed. Until either exchequer funding is released or priorities are changed to allow the work to be done, the speeds will be low into the future.


  • #111
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I guess we can expect more of the same then from the works going on in Clonmel at present - lots of track and ballast but the tamping crews busy elsewhere and thus no reinstatement of 50mph timetables.


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  • #112
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Limerick-Nenagh-Dublin moved back to 0505 ex Limerick this morning but it looks like the train didn't get away until 0518.


  • #113
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,756 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    IR tweeted today:

    we are examining the timings of this train, to ensure punctuality is restored


  • #114
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/just-four-people-on-board-new-train-route-costing-250000-a-year-to-run-3140007.html
    The documents show how little information was provided, in written format, to justify spending €1,000 a day on new services.

    They reveal how:
    • The NTA, which has the ultimate say on approving new rail routes, sought no details of how much the extra services would cost.
    • Permission to run the extra trains was granted just 90 minutes after the NTA was formally approached by Iarnrod Eireann about the matter on February 17.
    • Background discussions leading up to the decision were carried out on the phone, with no written record kept.
    • Two high-level reports previously recommended that the Ballybrophy line, which serves north Tipperary, be closed as too few people used it, it was beside a motorway and journey times were too slow.

    Official figures provided by the rail company show an average of just 10 people a day use the new 5.05am Limerick to Dublin service, which serves Castleconnell, Birdhill, Nenagh, Cloughjordan and Roscrea. The train has 190 seats.


  • #115
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Amazing, provide a extra services that nobody uses and prove the line's a dead duck - Todd Andrews strikes from beyond the grave! Sure beats painting stations and relaying yards as a way of racking up losses. If IE are incapable of running the railways properly they should be taken out of their control. The No Trains Authority will love this.


  • #116
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Amazing, provide a extra services that nobody uses and prove the line's a dead duck - Todd Andrews strikes from beyond the grave! Sure beats painting stations and relaying yards as a way of racking up losses. If IE are incapable of running the railways properly they should be taken out of their control. The No Trains Authority will love this.
    How do you propose they get people who don't want to use a slow train to use the train? no matter what speed the train achieves people will still not use it because railways are just not flexible enough and don't go where the people want to go! Buses will drop you into town centers while trains leave you out on the periphery.

    close this and a few other lines and Irish Rail might be saved!


  • #117
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    How do you propose they get people who don't want to use a slow train to use the train? no matter what speed the train achieves people will still not use it because railways are just not flexible enough and don't go where the people want to go! Buses will drop you into town centers while trains leave you out on the periphery.

    close this and a few other lines and Irish Rail might be saved!

    Much as it pains me to condone line closures, I think Foggy is right.
    The people of North Tipp dont want this line, so concentrate the resources on an extra, fast, direct Limerick to Dublin train that has a hope of breaking even.
    The same goes for any other line where it can be shown that buses can do the same job quicker and cheaper.


  • #118
    mikemac1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    I wouldn't say we don't want it.
    No area is going to turn down services from a minister ;)

    It's fast to Dublin, price is good and this early morning service is a clever idea.
    Not so fast to Limerick

    But it's just the bus service is even better
    JJ Kavanaghs and Bus Éireann run all day every day

    I doubt all the locals even know about the improved train service.

    Now this would be different if we didn't have the M7 beside us. The train would be popular then.
    The likes of Thurles have an awful bus service, it's the train for them

    But the Nenagh line just can't compete with the great bus service, that's what people are used to


  • #119
    pigtown
    Registered Users Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭pigtown


    I could never figure out why they cancelled the Nenagh-Limerick commuter service so that they could offer a Nenagh-Dublin commuter service. Surely more people would be working in the nearest city than in Dublin.


  • #120
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I have always thought it strange how some places which have railway stations are left with very little or even no bus services. Thurles, Portarlington, Monasterevin, etc are left completely alone and out in the cold by bus eireann. Are bus eireann not interested in the competition or is it that they are told not to take railway customers in certain areas?


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  • #121
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    How do you propose they get people who don't want to use a slow train to use the train? no matter what speed the train achieves people will still not use it because railways are just not flexible enough and don't go where the people want to go! Buses will drop you into town centers while trains leave you out on the periphery.

    close this and a few other lines and Irish Rail might be saved!

    foggy - we have been hearing the same old mantra for decades 'close down a few more lines' and the rest will survive'. The lifting train will coming through Islandbridge Junction and you, your fellow travellers in the IRRS and other anti-railway charlatans will still be trotting out the same old claptrap. If CIE/IE can't operate what's left of the railways they should be taken out of the equation.


  • #122
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    ideal would be to hand operation over to the likes of Chiltern Railways, but would they be interested I wonder?


  • #123
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    I was thinking way outside the box on this one e.g. a new company (with subsidy) operated out of Limerick running services on the branch, with IE charged only with track and stock maintenance. A tight ship with no waste, sweating the assets - in the style of the old SL&NCR or County Donegal Rlys. Will never happen of course but if there was any leadership in this country it could be done. Could it be any worse than the present situation where CIE are allowed to rack-up huge losses on the railways while running them into the ground?


  • #124
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    foggy - we have been hearing the same old mantra for decades 'close down a few more lines' and the rest will survive'. The lifting train will coming through Islandbridge Junction and you, your fellow travellers in the IRRS and other anti-railway charlatans will still be trotting out the same old claptrap. If CIE/IE can't operate what's left of the railways they should be taken out of the equation.

    There is a reasonable level of track mileage left, the most pressing rail preservation project is the retention of same. It's a pity we don't have objective publications like 'Rail' (UK) magazine here, or dedicated and informed journalists who could keep tabs on events and inform the public. All the more reason now as other EU countries are rising to the challenge of 21st century rail. I'll quote Portugal again with it's Intercity Alfa Pendular tilting 230 kph trains. A really great achievement for a country with economic problems, like us. All we have here 'treading the boards' is a crowd of cheer leaders for buses. :rolleyes:


  • #125
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,141 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    How do you propose they get people who don't want to use a slow train to use the train?
    hike up road tax so much with exemptions for trucks and emergency vehicles?
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    no matter what speed the train achieves people will still not use it because railways are just not flexible enough and don't go where the people want to go!
    you think people would sit on a bus traveling at 80 mph if they could get a train that travels at 100 to 125 mph?
    if we have money again we just build them to where people want to go.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    close this and a few other lines and Irish Rail might be saved!

    thats what they said in the 60s. todd andrews's war against the railways was for nothing and he failed because their still here just about surviving dispite IE'S mission to drive away their customers. CIE/IE are still a shambles and a waste of space who haven't a clue how to run a railway and who treat their customers and staff like their a problem that they have to put up with. nothing can save irish rail. no way would i travel on a horid bus when i can get a comfortable train and if the line i use should ever close i'l move to where their is one and if the whole lot closes i'l emmigrate.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #126
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    end of the road wrote: »
    hike up road tax so much with exemptions for trucks and emergency vehicles?
    Unbelievable but this is the attitude which will end the railways in Ireland, just force people to pay through the nose for an overpriced service which represents NO value for money by hiking up road tax even though the very same people are already subsidising the railways they don't use!
    you think people would sit on a bus traveling at 80 mph if they could get a train that travels at 100 to 125 mph?
    if we have money again we just build them to where people want to go.
    anyone going from Carlow to Dublin City Centre who does not want the hassle of getting to the station in Carlow and them be left 2KM from Dublin will gladly travel at 100kph instead of a noisy overcrowded train travelling at about the same speed which has to wait for 10 minutes at each stop for the oncoming train to clear the track.
    thats what they said in the 60s. todd andrews's war against the railways was for nothing and he failed because their still here just about surviving dispite IE'S mission to drive away their customers. CIE/IE are still a shambles and a waste of space who haven't a clue how to run a railway and who treat their customers and staff like their a problem that they have to put up with. nothing can save irish rail. no way would i travel on a horid bus when i can get a comfortable train and if the line i use should ever close i'l move to where their is one and if the whole lot closes i'l emmigrate.
    The railways in Ireland died about 80years ago but still havn't been buried!


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  • #127
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,141 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    The railways in Ireland died about 80years ago but still havn't been buried!

    no they didn't and thats the end of it. their still alive and will live on and you will just have to put up with it. railways and trains galore forever.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #128
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    im quite happy to have railways and trains galore forever provided they are there to perform a useful and economic purpose rather than to satify the trainspotter mentality or the "fair dos for the Wesht" brigade.

    If hardly anyone is using a service or a service has to be heavily subsiidised then it should be replaced by a cheaper alternative if that is more viable and the assets used to improve the better lines.


  • #129
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I was thinking way outside the box on this one e.g. a new company (with subsidy) operated out of Limerick running services on the branch, with IE charged only with track and stock maintenance. A tight ship with no waste, sweating the assets - in the style of the old SL&NCR or County Donegal Rlys. Will never happen of course but if there was any leadership in this country it could be done. Could it be any worse than the present situation where CIE are allowed to rack-up huge losses on the railways while running them into the ground?

    Not just the branch but a regional rail company based in Limerick, running Lk - Waterford, Galway, Ballybrophy etc. and also allowed run freight so you could see a private operator back doing containers in Limerick, Mallow, Ennis (if they ever had containers) Galway etc.

    Shannon Airport has been set free from the DAA, it could be merged into the same group.


  • #130
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    rainbowdash wrote: »
    Not just the branch but a regional rail company based in Limerick, running Lk - Waterford, Galway, Ballybrophy etc. and also allowed run freight so you could see a private operator back doing containers in Limerick, Mallow, Ennis (if they ever had containers) Galway etc.

    Shannon Airport has been set free from the DAA, it could be merged into the same group.

    Why, if it has just been set free (it hasn't yet), would you encumber it with some failing railway lines, especially seeing as it isn't connected to the railway and such a connection isn't justified?


  • #131
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Can we stick to Nanagh rail in this thread? Everything else moved here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056677500


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  • #132
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I was thinking way outside the box on this one e.g. a new company (with subsidy) operated out of Limerick running services on the branch, with IE charged only with track and stock maintenance. A tight ship with no waste, sweating the assets - in the style of the old SL&NCR or County Donegal Rlys.
    The SL&NCR didn't have Safety Cases and the RSC to contend with. The overhead in setting up a modern railway before you hired your first driver must be daunting.


  • #133
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,141 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    apparently the afternoon direct limerick dublin train will be diverted via the nenagh branch for july and august.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #134
    rainbowdash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 878 ✭✭✭rainbowdash


    Victor wrote: »
    Why, if it has just been set free (it hasn't yet), would you encumber it with some failing railway lines, especially seeing as it isn't connected to the railway and such a connection isn't justified?

    I never mentioned connecting it to a railway line.

    Having a regional transport company with some level of joined up thinking could not be worse than whats there at the moment.

    Whats needed for Irish rail in the midwest, and Shannon airport, is an Are Lingus style greenfield approach where all the layers of staff, along with historic work practices, high wages and golden pensions are stripped away to provide dynamic services at more realistic prices.


  • #135
    highlydebased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,470 ✭✭✭highlydebased


    end of the road wrote: »
    apparently the afternoon direct limerick dublin train will be diverted via the nenagh branch for july and august.

    There is no afternoon Limk-Dublin direct- the last one is at 9am


  • #136
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,921 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    He/she means the 1340 Heuston/Limerick on Tuesdays to Thursdays.


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