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France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

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    #1502
    4PP
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 756 ✭✭✭4PP


    Beubeu wrote: »
    ??? i was just saying that some supporter will support some players because they play for their local team (exemple: some Munster supporter dont like Sexton). same in France with Toulouse and Clermont. Didnt know i ll get a story about french relationship with the state (completly out of subject by the way)
    some supporters turns their back to the team if they are losing. They are bandwagonners

    On that point we both agree ;)













    Still think Pearson robbed Ireland mind :D


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    #1503
    4PP
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 756 ✭✭✭4PP


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Personally I care more about Munster than Ireland, but that doesn't mean I'm tribalistic when it comes to Ireland.

    I go to more Munster games and see them training more regularly so I feel a closer affinity to Munster than I would Ireland. I would say this is the case for a lot of Irish rugby fans.

    Maybe its a generational thing but that is totally beyond me.
    Sure, support your local team, even support local shops & industries, fair play. But how anyone could put county/province (sportswise) before country is just...................well................just beyond me:(

    Then again, I grew up pre Celtic Tiger, so maybe I just don't have that self centered streak about me:o


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    #1504
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    4PP wrote: »
    Maybe its a generational thing but that is totally beyond me.
    Sure, support your local team, even support local shops & industries, fair play. But how anyone could put county/province (sportswise) before country is just...................well................just beyond me:(

    Then again, I grew up pre Celtic Tiger, so maybe I just don't have that self centered streak about me:o
    That's a very fine line you're threading now 4PP.


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    #1505
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    4PP wrote: »
    Maybe its a generational thing but that is totally beyond me.
    Sure, support your local team, even support local shops & industries, fair play. But how anyone could put county/province (sportswise) before country is just...................well................just beyond me:(

    Then again, I grew up pre Celtic Tiger, so maybe I just don't have that self centered streak about me:o

    Condescend much?


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    #1506
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I probably would be a lot more likely to travel to support Leinster than Ireland. I'll be heading to Clermont if we're there for the Semis (I live in London so a Sarries win would suit me far better... even if it would be a little bit boring!). I wouldn't miss a H Cup Leinster knockout game if you paid me.

    Whereas I have tickets for all the Aviva Ireland games, some of which I don't use because I'm not as bothered traveling home for a 6N game as I would be for a H Cup game.


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    #1507
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    4PP wrote: »
    Maybe its a generational thing but that is totally beyond me.
    Sure, support your local team, even support local shops & industries, fair play. But how anyone could put county/province (sportswise) before country is just...................well................just beyond me:(

    Then again, I grew up pre Celtic Tiger, so maybe I just don't have that self centered streak about me:o

    I feel the same, because the national team seems so distant, whereas the provinces (Leinster in my case), seem so much more local and easy to relate to.


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    #1508
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    4PP wrote: »
    Maybe its a generational thing but that is totally beyond me.
    Sure, support your local team, even support local shops & industries, fair play. But how anyone could put county/province (sportswise) before country is just...................well................just beyond me:(

    Then again, I grew up pre Celtic Tiger, so maybe I just don't have that self centered streak about me:o
    Tox56 wrote: »
    I feel the same, because the national team seems so distant, whereas the provinces (Leinster in my case), seem so much more local and easy to relate to.

    Tox sums it up. 4PP we'll agree to disagree.


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    #1509
    mike.l
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭mike.l


    First 30 mins = excellent!


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    #1510
    4PP
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 756 ✭✭✭4PP


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    That's a very fine line you're threading now 4PP.


    I do beg your pardon but I do not understand that remark?? I am absolutely not being sarcastic here at all. Maybe 20 years out of the country has reduced my language skills but I'm afraid to say I do see an unwarranted veiled threat there?

    I am more than willing to rest by my keyboard if you wish to continue this by PM or in public.

    I do not see where the problem is, honestly!

    A confused 4PP


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    #1511
    4PP
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 756 ✭✭✭4PP


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Tox sums it up. 4PP we'll agree to disagree.


    T2006, loving your local team is fine, its excellent actually, they need local support.
    I just don't get how you could put that before national interests is all.

    Sorry, I just put Ireland first, whatever the sport


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    #1512
    4PP
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 756 ✭✭✭4PP


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Condescend much?


    No, can't stand it, just see a big difference in the Ireland I left (91) & today.


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    #1513
    RoundBox11
    Registered Users Posts: 854 ✭✭✭RoundBox11


    Leinster7 wrote: »
    ROFL?


    Strange response. I thought what BeuBeu is true tbh. ROG offers his boot. thats all. Sexton offers so much more, plus a very good boot


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    #1514
    leftism
    Registered Users Posts: 518 ✭✭✭leftism


    vixdname wrote: »
    I'm not saying we lost games solely because of sexton, what I'm saying is is that Sexton is more consistently making hashes of what would be considered easy scores then anyone else, compare him to ROG, Kidney consistently puts Sexton on early in matches and ends up putting in O'Gara to try and mop up some of the ****e that been left for him in the second half.
    Dont try and tell me you've never seen this ? Or are you one of the Johnny Sexton fans that wear blinkers and thinks he can do no wrong

    Your opinion of Johnny Sexton is based on the premise that an out-half's entire role in the game is place kicking... Rugby is not American Football where where specialist kickers can run on and score points before retiring back to the bench! In the game of rugby, our specialist kicker must pass, tackle and defend the line just like everyone else. I can admit that ROG is place kicking better than Johnny at the moment, but Johnny's work rate in both attack and defense is what puts him in the starting line-up. If ROG was defending against a fresh Dusatoir or Fofana from the kick-off, i would probably have no fingernails now (as it is i have very little fingernails left anyways)...

    Its easy to criticise Sexton for missing the odd kick, in the same way that its easy to criticise SOB for the lack of barnstorming runs this season. The intricacies of rugby are such that we must judge players on more than just the highlights.


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    #1515
    Hippo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭Hippo


    4PP wrote: »
    No, can't stand it, just see a big difference in the Ireland I left (91) & today.

    Well of course there's a big difference between Ireland in 1991 and the Ireland of today. 20 years is a long time and it'd be a bit odd if it had remained exactly the same. Some of the change has been for the better, it's not like everything was wonderful back then.

    To take your point regarding provincial/national team loyalties, I attended my first Lansdowne Road international in 1969 so I go back a bit, and I remember when the Irish team was for me the be all and end all. But the rugby landscape has changed a lot since then, and I now relate more easily to Leinster than to Ireland. I see them play most weeks and feel a stronger attachment to them; I'll still be screaming for Ireland whenever they play, but it's only a few times a year, and following the heights of the Heineken Cup, international rugby no longer feels like the absolute pinnacle, rightly or wrongly. Sorry about that, but it's not confined to the kids!

    Perhaps having been abroad for the provincial explosion over the last few years you haven't seen enough of it up close?


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    #1516
    smurphy29
    Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭smurphy29


    Lordy, imagine how this thread would look if we lost. Sexton's fault entirely for a missed pen in the 5th minute, Paul O'Connell is a useless captain... some really tiresome stuff on here.

    Great effort by Ireland, defence much improved. We couldn't sustain it for 80 minutes, and we were hanging on a bit at the end, but we were, perhaps, a functioning lineout away from winning the game.

    Some massive performers. Kearney obviously, Ferris was absolutely huge, Sexton ran that line coming from deep superbly all day, looked a real threat, and Earls put Bowe away beautifully, you'd almost think he was a centre! The finish from Bowe was world class.

    The big thing for this Ireland team is to go out over the next two weeks, against two ordinary enough sides, and show that this wasn't just a one off. We are now getting a rep for just turning up when we find ourselves painted into a corner (England last year, Australia, now this). Time to show we can play with that intensity with some consistency and, crucially, don't need to be underdogs to play well.


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    #1517
    teednab-el
    Registered Users Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭teednab-el


    leftism wrote: »
    vixdname wrote: »
    I'm not saying we lost games solely because of sexton, what I'm saying is is that Sexton is more consistently making hashes of what would be considered easy scores then anyone else, compare him to ROG, Kidney consistently puts Sexton on early in matches and ends up putting in O'Gara to try and mop up some of the ****e that been left for him in the second half.
    Dont try and tell me you've never see,n this ? Or are you one of the Johnny Sexton fans that wear blinkers and thinks he can do no wrong

    Your opinion of Johnny Sexton is based on the premise that an out-half's entire role in the game is place kicking... Rugby is not American Football where where specialist kickers can run on and score points before retiring back to the bench! In the game of rugby, our specialist kicker must pass, tackle and defend the line just like everyone else. I can admit that ROG is place kicking better than Johnny at the moment, but Johnny's work rate in both attack and defense is what puts him in the starting line-up. If ROG was defending against a fresh Dusatoir or Fofana from the kick-off, i would probably have no fingernails now (as it is i have very little fingernails left anyways)...

    Its easy to criticise Sexton for missing the odd kick, in the same way that its easy to criticise SOB for the lack of barnstorming runs this season. The intricacies of rugby are such that we must judge players on more than just the highlights.

    Sexton missed a howler today in front of the posts, cost us 3 points and a win in Paris. Never will be as good as O Gara for place kicking. We wait on for a win in Paris, hopefully not for another 30years.


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    #1518
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    teednab-el wrote: »
    Sexton missed a howler today in front of the posts, cost us 3 points and a win in Paris. Never will be as good as O Gara for place kicking. We wait on for a win in Paris, hopefully not for another 30years.

    nathan-fillion-well-nevermind.gif


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    #1519
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    I don't think Sexton shouldn't be beyond critique for missing that penalty, same with his failure to drop back for the drop-goal. They turned out to be huge moments in the game

    He was immense every-where else though


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    #1520
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    teednab-el wrote: »
    Sexton missed a howler today in front of the posts, cost us 3 points and a win in Paris. Never will be as good as O Gara for place kicking. We wait on for a win in Paris, hopefully not for another 30years.

    A missed kick with less than 10 minutes gone has never and will never cost a team a victory.


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    #1521
    4PP
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 756 ✭✭✭4PP


    Hippo wrote: »
    Well of course there's a big difference between Ireland in 1991 and the Ireland of today. 20 years is a long time and it'd be a bit odd if it had remained exactly the same. Some of the change has been for the better, it's not like everything was wonderful back then.

    To take your point regarding provincial/national team loyalties, I attended my first Lansdowne Road international in 1969 so I go back a bit, and I remember when the Irish team was for me the be all and end all. But the rugby landscape has changed a lot since then, and I now relate more easily to Leinster than to Ireland. I see them play most weeks and feel a stronger attachment to them; I'll still be screaming for Ireland whenever they play, but it's only a few times a year, and following the heights of the Heineken Cup, international rugby no longer feels like the absolute pinnacle, rightly or wrongly. Sorry about that, but it's not confined to the kids!

    Perhaps having been abroad for the provincial explosion over the last few years you haven't seen enough of it up close?


    '69 was the year I was born Hippo, maybe you were standing next to my old fella in lansdowne ;)

    Health issues have kept me very close to the interweb over the last 4 years & honestly during that period I've been better informed, despite not being there in person, than my siblings back home.

    Maybe I lost track a bit since Christmas after getting back in the saddle workwise but not by much.
    I come home for lunch everyday & the radio(via web) is on permantly, dawn to dusk.
    I enjoy it & my french wife & "irish" kids love it.
    we all follow the news on line.

    Okay thats not the same as living there but it doesn't make us ignoramous' either.

    I stand by what I said earlier, by all means support your local team/shop/whatever But i can't see how that could possibly get in the way of putting the national side(all counties) first


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    #1522
    teednab-el
    Registered Users Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭teednab-el


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    teednab-el wrote: »
    Sexton missed a howler today in front of the posts, cost us 3 points and a win in Paris. Never will be as good as O Gara for place kicking. We wait on for a win in Paris, hopefully not for another 30years.

    A missed kick with less than 10 minutes gone has never and will never cost a team a victory.

    Yeah but he should have gone for a drop at goal in the last 10 minutes when he was within range. If that was O Gara he would have the balls to nail it, like the GS in 2009. We don't get too many chances to beat the French in Paris.


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    #1523
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    He should have, but I highly doubt it was an issue of "balls". He probably just thought Ireland could score a try, which I certainly thought they looked like doing, and a 3 point cushion with that much time on the clock wasn't enough. A not altogether unreasonable decision.


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    #1524
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    teednab-el wrote: »
    Yeah but he should have gone for a drop at goal in the last 10 minutes when he was within range. If that was O Gara he would have the balls to nail it, like the GS in 2009. We don't get too many chances to beat the French in Paris.

    You realise ROG was the outhalf for the final 10 minutes, right?


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    #1525
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    GerM wrote: »
    You realise ROG was the outhalf for the final 10 minutes, right?

    O Gara wasn't on when we were camped in the French 22 at 66minutes

    (that doesn't mean I agree with what that poster was saying by the way :o)


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    #1526
    rrpc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭rrpc


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    I don't think Sexton shouldn't be beyond critique for missing that penalty, same with his failure to drop back for the drop-goal. They turned out to be huge moments in the game

    He was immense every-where else though
    I saw him take up the position for a drop at least once, he didn't get the ball though as it was rumbled up by the forwards.

    I thought we played too defensively. Definitely better defense, but if you look at our two tries, the first was purely defensive and the second came out of a bit of brilliance by Tommy Bowe from a pretty standard passing move.

    Our only serious attacking threats were Rob Kearney and Tommy Bowe. After that, there were very few even half breaks. It looked like we came out in the second half to contain France and protect our lead and France upped their game to which we had no answer. That's the big disappointment imo.


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    #1527
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    teednab-el wrote: »
    Sexton missed a howler today in front of the posts, cost us 3 points and a win in Paris. Never will be as good as O Gara for place kicking. We wait on for a win in Paris, hopefully not for another 30years.

    Would you get up the yard.

    If my mam had such a simple-minded view of rugby, I'd be embarrassed for her. That's the sort of level your analysis is at.


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    #1528
    teednab-el
    Registered Users Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭teednab-el


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    GerM wrote: »
    You realise ROG was the outhalf for the final 10 minutes, right?

    O Gara wasn't on when we were camped in the French 22 at 66minutes

    (that doesn't mean I agree with what that poster was saying by the way :o)

    You can't be surprised so why they didn't win.


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    #1529
    Fishooks12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,318 ✭✭✭Fishooks12


    Anyone else think that Murray got under the skin of Para during the first half?

    He was rather apathetic in the loose I felt


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    #1530
    teednab-el
    Registered Users Posts: 2,971 ✭✭✭teednab-el


    totallegend wrote: »
    teednab-el wrote: »
    Sexton missed a howler today in front of the posts, cost us 3 points and a win in Paris. Never will be as good as O Gara for place kicking. We wait on for a win in Paris, hopefully not for another 30years.

    Would you get up the yard.

    If my mam had such a simple-minded view of rugby, I'd be embarrassed for her. That's the sort of level your analysis is at.

    It's reality and my analysis is to the point. We have a kicker that can't place kick.


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    #1531
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Fishooks12 wrote: »
    O Gara wasn't on when we were camped in the French 22 at 66minutes

    (that doesn't mean I agree with what that poster was saying by the way :o)

    Nah, I'm aware. But he seems to be making arguments without even knowing the facts. The time to nail the drop was that spell, you're right. We were making ground though and I don't blame Sexton for not wanting to take a pop from 30m+ in manky conditions. They were finally reaching a position when the drop was a real option when Darce fumbled it. Beauxis, who is a superb striker of a ball and a decent drop goal man, showed how awkward the conditions were. If we were going to have a go, we needed to be doing it from their 22 and no further.


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