France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

jm08 · 02-03-2012 12:51pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

This may or may not be so but how come POM only got game time at 7 after Ronan got injured. I think Tommy O Donnell has more game time at 7 for Munster this season than POM.

covering 6 for Leamy (& D ryan), who was at the world cup. ronan was around for that part of the season.

Tox56 · 02-03-2012 12:55pm

jm08 wrote: »

covering 6 for Leamy (& D ryan), who was at the world cup. ronan was around for that part of the season.

Ronan didn't get injured and POM wouldn't have played 7, in a big game at least.

irishbucsfan · 02-03-2012 12:55pm

Kurt says well win. Grand stuff.

CatFromHue · 02-03-2012 12:56pm

jm08 wrote: »

covering 6 for Leamy (& D ryan), who was at the world cup. ronan was around for that part of the season.

In the first 2 HEC games POM started at 6 with Leamy on the bench and Ronan at 7. Ronan is/was Munster's first choice 7.

totallegend · 02-03-2012 1:07pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

2. Defence: The Italians caught the Irish defence out in the wider channels on a couple of occassions from phase play and created a couple of 2 v 1 and 3 v 1 situations.

Had the pass execution been of a higher standard, their final points tally of 10 points could have been considerably bigger. Again, the very fluid French attack on home soil will convert these opportunities into points if offered to them.

Matt Williams and Franno have been highlighting this for a while on The Breakdown, certainly against Italy there were many chances to highlight. If you think back to the Italians try they had a 5 or so man overlap.

Happened a couple of times against Wales as well, certainly their first try was a great (i.e. terrible) example of it. Also, Wales' first try in the RWC. The danger is that where Italy need a big overlap to inflict damage, France need six inches of grass and the ball.

jm08 · 02-03-2012 1:13pm

Tox56 wrote: »

This is our problem. Do we have 1 player at a time get a chance? England started a rookie 8, 9, 10, 12 and inexperienced 13 and should have beaten Wales.

Playing a "rookie" 10 + 13 (which Sexton no longer is) would not have been "pushing the boundaries" or anything, especially with someone like D'Arcy in at 12.

should have, could have, would have - they didn't and they lost.

sexton & cave would have been rookies a year to 18 months ago (which is when we were talking about) when POC was injured and bod was needed to captain the team. anyway, its immaterial because cave was injured then and now. just as well that earls & mcfadden can cope with playing there.

JRant · 02-03-2012 1:16pm

Surprise surprise from Toland, Munster man shockinly backs munster players. Way to biased to be even considered as constructive.
Sure he says there are 3 players (not including SOB) ahead of POM but he'd start with him, why exactly?
And he must be having a laugh wrt Murray. If SOB's place is coming under pressure, despite him doing a good job at 7, then Murray shouldn't even be in the 22. He's easily our least effective player atm.

jm08 · 02-03-2012 1:21pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Ronan didn't get injured and POM wouldn't have played 7, in a big game at least.

He rotated a few times in the magners in all backrow positions - 8 x 2, 7 x 2, 6 x 5 in the magners. 6 x 4;7 x1 in the heineken cup.

he will be back at 6 id say as wally will be back shortly.

ed7890 · 02-03-2012 1:22pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

In the first 2 HEC games POM started at 6 with Leamy on the bench and Ronan at 7. Ronan is/was Munster's first choice 7.

Just to add, I think Leamy was carrying his hip injury for a while before he went out for surgery. He only seemed effective coming off the bench, like in the first Saints game.

jm08 · 02-03-2012 1:23pm

JRant wrote: »

Surprise surprise from Toland, Munster man shockinly backs munster players. Way to biased to be even considered as constructive.
Sure he says there are 3 players (not including SOB) ahead of POM but he'd start with him, why exactly?
And he must be having a laugh wrt Murray. If SOB's place is coming under pressure, despite him doing a good job at 7, then Murray shouldn't even be in the 22. He's easily our least effective player atm.

Toland is a former Leinster captain.:D

He was saying nicely that he doesn't rate them.

leftleg · 02-03-2012 1:42pm

Cheika in the Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/0302/1224312633045.html

“I would like to see them cut loose. I think they need to play with quicker ball and just let it flow. Like, their game is good, I just think they need to cut loose a little bit more and play on the front foot a lot more. And that’s almost cyclical.

“Once you start it, it’s hard to stop, especially as Ireland have some powerful runners, and can keep the game alive, with offloads and climbing into the rucks a bit more and commit fully to their running game. I just think they need to believe in their attacking game more and go after it.”

To this end, Cheika would like to see Eoin Reddan picked from the start, all the more so given his understanding with Jonathan Sexton. He likes Conor Murray as well, and compares it to the Leinster mix of Reddan and Isaac Boss.

“They’re very lucky, they’ve got two guys who can play different ways. I think the key to playing a more committed attacking game is to play with Reddan, because he just picks the pace of the game up and I reckon the game needs to be played fast from the start, not just at the end.”

And come down to one moment? “Yeh. It’s going to come down to one individual who’s prepared to make the difference, and that’s what happens when the good teams clash. It’s going to be real close.”

He must be talking about POM; he seems like that individual; you know that way he hits rucks hard and gets in there down and dirty; unlike SOB; hes just a pussy cat. :pac::pac:

phog · 02-03-2012 1:45pm

JRant wrote: »

Surprise surprise from Toland, Munster man shockinly backs munster players. Way to biased to be even considered as constructive.

Liam Toland has played far more rugby with Leinster than he ever did with Munster.

irishbucsfan · 02-03-2012 1:47pm

jm08 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Surprise surprise from Toland, Munster man shockinly backs munster players. Way to biased to be even considered as constructive.
Sure he says there are 3 players (not including SOB) ahead of POM but he'd start with him, why exactly?
And he must be having a laugh wrt Murray. If SOB's place is coming under pressure, despite him doing a good job at 7, then Murray shouldn't even be in the 22. He's easily our least effective player atm.

Toland is a former Leinster captain.:D

He was saying nicely that he doesn't rate them.

He said that Jennings is the best openside in Ireland. That's an odd way of saying he doesn't rate him.

Fireball07 · 02-03-2012 1:57pm

CatFromHue wrote: »

This may or may not be so but how come POM only got game time at 7 after Ronan got injured. I think Tommy O Donnell has more game time at 7 for Munster this season than POM.

That's not too hard to understand... when we had players at the WC our 3 best backrow players available were POM, Ronan & Coughlan. Ronan can only play 7, so POM played at 6. When the players returned, Ronan was in excellent form as was POM, so Leamy only made the bench. Injury problems meant that we didn't have a lot of options and POM's versatility means he can play anywhere in the back row while Ronan is limited to just 7.

leftleg · 02-03-2012 1:57pm

"Peter O’Mahony will make a world class openside, with technical ability matched with the brain and attitude to redefine how we view this position."

I think he means future tense as in getting loads more game time in that position. Not Sunday in Paris.

Wexfordboy89 · 02-03-2012 2:03pm

anyone know about a french kid with an irish surname think his name is Marvin O`Connor is he any good??

p.s sorry if its off the topic i`m new to the boards and wasn't sure were to ask the question.

jm08 · 02-03-2012 2:08pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He said that Jennings is the best openside in Ireland. That's an odd way of saying he doesn't rate him.

wouldn't be hard being the best openside in ireland at the moment. there is only one fit one - Jennings - and he is better than sob. ronan & wally are injured.

Interesting that he does not seem to rate Henry.

BoarHunter · 02-03-2012 2:09pm

Wexfordboy89 wrote: »

anyone know about a french kid with an irish surname think his name is Marvin O`Connor is he any good??

p.s sorry if its off the topic i`m new to the boards and wasn't sure were to ask the question.

Yes he was in the -20 semi finalists last World cup. He is a promissing prospect. He plays for Bayonne now but suffers with the competition of all these star players. From this generation Jean Marcellin Buttin is the closest to make it to international level. After only 15 Top14 games he is knocking at the door and impressed everyone as full back for Clermont

Wexfordboy89 · 02-03-2012 2:13pm

BoarHunter wrote: »

Yes he was in the -20 semi finalists last World cup. He is a promissing prospect. He plays for Bayonne now but suffers with the competition of all these star players. From this generation Jean Marcellin Buttin is the closest to make it to international level. After only 15 Top14 games he is knocking at the door and impressed everyone as full back for Clermont

could be worth a look at by one of the provinces then also remember the commentator saying that he mother or father was Irish cant remember now.thanks for the info

JRant · 02-03-2012 2:25pm

jm08 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Surprise surprise from Toland, Munster man shockinly backs munster players. Way to biased to be even considered as constructive.
Sure he says there are 3 players (not including SOB) ahead of POM but he'd start with him, why exactly?
And he must be having a laugh wrt Murray. If SOB's place is coming under pressure, despite him doing a good job at 7, then Murray shouldn't even be in the 22. He's easily our least effective player atm.

Toland is a former Leinster captain.:D

He was saying nicely that he doesn't rate them.

Was he not born in Limerick? I said "Munster man" which he is, grace of God and all that sort of thing

smurphy29 · 02-03-2012 2:29pm

BoarHunter wrote: »

Yes he was in the -20 semi finalists last World cup. He is a promissing prospect. He plays for Bayonne now but suffers with the competition of all these star players. From this generation Jean Marcellin Buttin is the closest to make it to international level. After only 15 Top14 games he is knocking at the door and impressed everyone as full back for Clermont

I was hoping Buttin would make the 6N squad. Must have been in the shake-up once Medard got hurt. Looks a seriously impressive player.

jm08 · 02-03-2012 2:56pm

JRant wrote: »

Was he not born in Limerick? I said "Munster man" which he is, grace of God and all that sort of thing

Yep, just like Reddan & Cronin.

Imagine, a Munster man captaining Leinster

leftleg · 02-03-2012 3:02pm

jm08 wrote: »

Yep, just like Reddan & Cronin. Imagine, a Munster man captaining Leinster

Do you want a bigger spoon??

JRant · 02-03-2012 3:10pm

jm08 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Was he not born in Limerick? I said "Munster man" which he is, grace of God and all that sort of thing

Yep, just like Reddan & Cronin. Imagine, a Munster man captaining Leinster

Imagine a Leinster man captaining Munster

Seriously though, he's usually a good read tbh but this is a bit much. I can see what he's getting at but there are 3 other provinces producing players atm as well. To say there are at least 3 other better players at 7 but that he'd still pick POM is just strange, or am I missing something?

jm08 · 02-03-2012 3:24pm

JRant wrote: »

Imagine a Leinster man captaining Munster
Seriously though, he's usually a good read tbh but this is a bit much. I can see what he's getting at but there are 3 other provinces producing players atm as well. To say there are at least 3 other better players at 7 but that he'd still pick POM is just strange, or am I missing something?

yea, you are missing something. Toland thinks POM is the real deal.

Tox56 · 02-03-2012 4:14pm

jm08 wrote: »

wouldn't be hard being the best openside in ireland at the moment. there is only one fit one - Jennings - and he is better than sob. ronan & wally are injured.

Interesting that he does not seem to rate Henry.

Jennings has shown he is better than all those bar Wally, and he isn't exactly a traditional openside. Henry would be up but he plays everywhere in the backrow.

sting60 · 02-03-2012 4:34pm

Benny Cake wrote: »

Paddypower have France 9 point favourites. I hate betting against Ireland, but I reckon France will cover that spread....

what price that 9 point margin.Fake tan will give that away in 20mins.If 1/1 or 11/10 i will have a right go at it.Selection worries all over the team but the French will attack our small centers.Maybe its me but I would start my strongest team and then make changes if required.Why bring on better players when the game is over??

JRant · 02-03-2012 4:37pm

jm08 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Imagine a Leinster man captaining Munster
Seriously though, he's usually a good read tbh but this is a bit much. I can see what he's getting at but there are 3 other provinces producing players atm as well. To say there are at least 3 other better players at 7 but that he'd still pick POM is just strange, or am I missing something?

yea, you are missing something. Toland thinks POM is the real deal.

Thats grand and dandy but he also says the others are ahead of POM.
By your own stats POM has played 3 to 4 games at 7 this season, not really enough to making a call on tbh.
How do you think he'll cope at the breakdown then?

BoardsMember · 02-03-2012 4:41pm

sting60 wrote: »

what price that 9 point margin.Fake tan will give that away in 20mins.If 1/1 or 11/10 i will have a right go at it.Selection worries all over the team but the French will attack our small centers.Maybe its me but I would start my strongest team and then make changes if required.Why bring on better players when the game is over??

How outrageously left-field of you....that's an incredibly left field suggestion...let me mull it over...the suggestion of starting with your best team, if only DK had thought of that, sure where would he get such an idea?

leftleg · 02-03-2012 4:44pm

BoardsMember wrote: »

starting with your best team

Should have started with POM so; hes the best 6,7 and 8 in the world; in fact lets just have him as our backrow instead of 3 players as hes better than them all.
Cant wait to be wrong.

Tox56 · 02-03-2012 4:48pm

BBC Sport website has archive footage of the game in 2000 for UK users, if anyone is interested, unless I'm infringing on some copyright law by saying that.

leftleg · 02-03-2012 4:50pm

Tox56 wrote: »

BBC Sport website has archive footage of the game in 2000 for UK users, if anyone is interested, unless I'm infringing on some copyright law by saying that.

afaik your ok as long as you dont mention anything to do with software that lets you hide your ip address

lologram · 02-03-2012 5:10pm

Tox56 wrote: »

unless I'm infringing on some copyright law by saying that.

To the Gulag with you!

mikedragon32 · 02-03-2012 5:16pm

Back on topic everyone. You can discuss Sherlock's Folly on JSB's thread.

totallegend · 02-03-2012 5:26pm

Tox56 wrote: »

BBC Sport website has archive footage of the game in 2000 for UK users, if anyone is interested, unless I'm infringing on some copyright law by saying that.

Keep an eye on espn classic also, they're showing old six nations games these days and they definitely showed it last year.

jm08 · 02-03-2012 5:56pm

JRant wrote: »

Thats grand and dandy but he also says the others are ahead of POM.
By your own stats POM has played 3 to 4 games at 7 this season, not really enough to making a call on tbh.
How do you think he'll cope at the breakdown then?

What Toland inferred isthat is there are a couple of players who might do an alright job at openside now, but they will all be just ok, he thinks that Peter O'Mahoney will "make a world class openside because he has the technical ability, the right attitude and a brain" so the best thing to do is to cut to the chase and get him in there now.

Fireball07 · 02-03-2012 6:27pm

Tox56 wrote: »

Jennings has shown he is better than all those bar Wally, and he isn't exactly a traditional openside. Henry would be up but he plays everywhere in the backrow.

I don't think Jennings has shown that at all...maybe over the past few seasons, yeah, but he's never really shone on the international stage. Ronan's form has dramatically improved but the two of them are too old to be bringing into the first team now really. Henry has been the most in-form player playing at 7, and POM has played well there and has been in superb form at 6. Both have been better than Jennings and Ronan this season.

leonard7 · 02-03-2012 6:30pm

the lions and hurricaines have gone to uncontested scrums...if that were to happen on sunday would you take off mike ross for POM?

Tox56 · 02-03-2012 6:32pm

Fireball07 wrote: »

I don't think Jennings has shown that at all...maybe over the past few seasons, yeah, but he's never really shone on the international stage. Ronan's form has dramatically improved but the two of them are too old to be bringing into the first team now really. Henry has been the most in-form player playing at 7, and POM has played well there and has been in superb form at 6. Both have been better than Jennings and Ronan this season.

Well I think Jennings has shown in the last few seasons he is better than Ronan, although I agree Henry this season is more in form.

POM wasn't someone I was referring to.

JRant · 02-03-2012 8:21pm

jm08 wrote: »

JRant wrote: »

Thats grand and dandy but he also says the others are ahead of POM.
By your own stats POM has played 3 to 4 games at 7 this season, not really enough to making a call on tbh.
How do you think he'll cope at the breakdown then?

What Toland inferred isthat is there are a couple of players who might do an alright job at openside now, but they will all be just ok, he thinks that Peter O'Mahoney will "make a world class openside because he has the technical ability, the right attitude and a brain" so the best thing to do is to cut to the chase and get him in there now.

Well you see there's a wee hole in your theory and its that he doesn't infer anything, he states they are better and then says he'd have POM. A Why, How, Where and When would have been nice from him but nothing. Just states one fact while contradicting it with the next.
For the record Dom Ryan is in IMHO a far superior 7 than POM, who is definetly more of a 6/8. But sure don't let the facts get in the way of a good aul speil.

Big Nelly · 02-03-2012 9:09pm

27 pages and game hasn't started????

Do you not know it is the most predictable game in history with the most predictable manager in World Rugby!!!!!

duckysauce · 02-03-2012 9:41pm

Big Nelly wrote: »

27 pages and game hasn't started????

Do you not know it is the most predictable game in history with the most predictable manager in World Rugby!!!!!

i predict an Ireland win

Grimebox · 03-03-2012 2:33am

duckysauce wrote: »

i predict an Ireland win

I predict you will be proven wrong

MickySticks · 03-03-2012 3:22am

Big Nelly wrote: »

27 pages and game hasn't started????

Do you not know it is the most predictable game in history with the most predictable manager in World Rugby!!!!!

Did you predict a 9 point win over Australia in the World Cup last year?

jm08 · 03-03-2012 11:25am

JRant wrote: »

Well you see there's a wee hole in your theory and its that he doesn't infer anything, he states they are better and then says he'd have POM. A Why, How, Where and When would have been nice from him but nothing. Just states one fact while contradicting it with the next.
For the record Dom Ryan is in IMHO a far superior 7 than POM, who is definetly more of a 6/8. But sure don't let the facts get in the way of a good aul speil.

The "why" he'd have POM over the other is because he thinks that POM has "technical ability, right attitude & a brain"

the "how, where & when" = by playing him there, at 7 and now (instead of O'Brien).

none of this is fact, its all opinion (yours & tolands).

danthefan · 03-03-2012 11:27am

"Technical ability" could not be more vague.

As for attitude, is that implying there's something wrong with SOB's attitude?

irishbucsfan · 03-03-2012 11:32am

Thing is, the only things POM is missing are size and technical ability!

Flincher · 03-03-2012 11:40am

danthefan wrote: »

As for attitude, is that implying there's something wrong with SOB's attitude?

Don't think so. Its praise for one person. Not criticism of another.

jm08 · 03-03-2012 11:50am

danthefan wrote: »

"Technical ability" could not be more vague.

As for attitude, is that implying there's something wrong with SOB's attitude?

No, just different attitude to the position.

technical ability could be that he is good at turning over ball whereas sob is good at carrying.

do you think sob is doing justice to himself playing at 7.

jm08 · 03-03-2012 11:58am

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Thing is, the only things POM is missing are size and technical ability!

sam warburton= 6'2" 16st 10 lbs

peter o'm = 6'3" 16 st 7 lbs

France V Ireland – Stade de France, Paris. Sunday 4th March 15:00 RTE2 & BBC2

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