Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 9:37pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

Well I ain't paying for them. I have enough trouble paying my own fcuk ups.

taytolover, I said it to you before, your wasting your time with donalg.
I took him off my ignore list there just to see if he's still trotting out the same BS and guess what, he is.

Only difference this week is that we now know that one of his main reasons for paying is because Mick Wallace says not to. That's some reason...

Even though you say, like myself, that you will and do pay all your other taxes,he still fires out the old "I assume that you aren't paying your motor tax this year", "Or any other tax for that matter". Ridiculous!

You cannot debate with people like this so it's back to the ignore list for donal.

You can't debate gerry because you have nothing to say other than an attack on the poster at least tayto makes a good argument and attacks the post unlike yourself who just spouts the same old nonsense and can't back anything up

tayto lover · 21-02-2012 9:38pm

donalg1 wrote: »

But you haven't paid for them yet apparently you said your motor tax and other taxes paid for bond holders

I pay ALL my taxes But will not pay the Household Tax. They can do what they like with the taxes I do pay as I will not be paying a Household Tax. If they pay all the other taxes I pay towards bondholders/banks etc (as I suspect they do) then so be it. No Household Tax from me.

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 9:46pm

tayto lover wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

But you haven't paid for them yet apparently you said your motor tax and other taxes paid for bond holders

I pay ALL my taxes But will not pay the Household Tax. They can do what they like with the taxes I do pay as I will not be paying a Household Tax. If they pay all the other taxes I pay towards bondholders/banks etc (as I suspect they do) then so be it. No Household Tax from me.

That's fine as I have said before its your choice. But my point was that you can't really complain about the lack of repairs to the roads if you refuse to pay the household charge that's all

starbelgrade · 21-02-2012 9:47pm

mikom wrote: »

The official site.

Your opinion on this revelation?

The twelve year limitation applies to length of time in which interest can be charged on a non-payment of the initial €100 household charge.

After twelve years, the charge & interest still applies. And it will still apply - as I said earlier - if you try to sell your house 20 years down the line.

And as I said in a previous post - this charge applies to your property & unless you die, there's no getting away from paying it.

Most people here complaining about the charge probably pay more for 2 to 3 months internet service, yet they claim not to be able to afford to pay this.

I'm not a fan of this charge, but I find that most of the arguments being used as reasons for not being able to pay it are as disingenuous as the myths being perpetuated about the application of the charge & the statues that brought it into effect.

tayto lover · 21-02-2012 9:48pm

donalg1 wrote: »

That's fine as I have said before its your choice. But my point was that you can't really complain about the lack of repairs to the roads if you refuse to pay the household charge that's all

Do you think the Government has been dishonest by not telling us that the Road Tax and other taxes have been diverted to Banks and Bondholders ?

gerryo777 · 21-02-2012 9:55pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think the Government has been dishonest by not telling us that the Road Tax and other taxes have been diverted to Banks and Bondholders ?

Don't forget the VRT you paid on your car + the VAT on top of that + the 60-65% tax you pay on fuel. Add to that the toll charges, parking charges & vehicle testing charges.

Fallschirmjager · 21-02-2012 9:55pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think the Government has been dishonest by not telling us that the Road Tax and other taxes have been diverted to Banks and Bondholders ?

if i recall that is in the Constitution. they can centralise all taxes and distribute according to the needs as determined by the government. now that from memory so dont hold me to that, if i get a chance i will check it again.

Cantona's Collars · 21-02-2012 9:56pm

donalg1 wrote: »

That's fine as I have said before its your choice. But my point was that you can't really complain about the lack of repairs to the roads if you refuse to pay the household charge that's all

Isn't that what our road tax (which was increased) is meant to cover?

There's a protest planned for Saturday 25th Feb in Enniscorthy @ 10am against this charge.The fact that a local Fine Gael TD awarded himself a €17,000 pay rise hasn't helped sate peoples anger about this tax either.

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 9:58pm

tayto lover wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

That's fine as I have said before its your choice. But my point was that you can't really complain about the lack of repairs to the roads if you refuse to pay the household charge that's all

Do you think the Government has been dishonest by not telling us that the Road Tax and other taxes have been diverted to Banks and Bondholders ?

The govt are always dishonest. But I didn't say road tax is paying them. The local government fund is made up of motor tax receipts and since the introduction of the carbon based emissions band rates the level of income generated by motor tax has fallen significantly. Couple this with a drop in government grants and eu grants and subsidies plus a drop in the level of collection of commercial rates, a drop in planning contributions and more mortgages in arrears and rent accounts in arrears then local authorities will have seen a huge reduction in revenue and therefore new ways of financing local government have had to be looked at.

starbelgrade · 21-02-2012 9:58pm

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

When they give me back the €32,000 I paid in stamp duty on my house, then I'll pay the household charge. There's a lot of people on here saying it's only a hundred quid. Well it is now but next year or the year after, it'll be many multiples of that. Throw in your water rates and you won't get change out of a grand. So that's two grand you have to earn to pay one grand out of your net pay. And for what???? Local services??? Seeing as we already pay for these out of our PAYE and motor tax, we're paying on the double.

And what pray tell are these local services? I pay a private company to collect my bins. I have a septic tank that I have to pay to maintain and empty it. I have my own well for water. My road is pothole ridden. If I call out the fire brigade, they'll charge me €500. There is no street lighting near my house. So what exactly am I supposed to pay this charge for????

No need to respond as I know - the banker's and builder's debts.

You either knew exactly what you were getting when you bought a house with a large tax on it and no connection to mains water or sewerage or you are very stupid indeed.

There are many more local services that local authorities provide other than providing services to people who choose - yes choose - to live in areas that don't have them.

This may well be yet another tax to pay off other people's debts, but the "I already pay my own way" line that many rural dwellers spout out at times like these, is quite frankly a load of bollox.

dvpower · 21-02-2012 10:00pm

tayto lover wrote: »

Do you think the Government has been dishonest by not telling us that the Road Tax and other taxes have been diverted to Banks and Bondholders ?

The Income and Expenditure accounts are fairly transparant. I don't really see where the dishonesty is.

No one seems to mention the deficit at all, which is the primary reason for increased taxes and reduced services.

Ghandee · 21-02-2012 10:03pm

donalg1 wrote: »

And can you not see that maybe the reason the roads are in a bad state is because there is no money to pay for them? You can't complain about potholes if you aren't prepared to pay your taxes.

Hi Donal.

I pay €580 a year on my motor tax.
I also pay approx €40 a week on tolls, Naas to airport, airport to port tunnel, port tunnel back to airport, and airport to home in the evenings again.

That's give or take two grand a year for Christs sake.

My job requires me to drive to these places, its part of life, no point complaining about it.

But, for you to defend the state of or roads is laughable.

A classic example of paying twice for something right there! :cool:

mikom · 21-02-2012 10:09pm

dvpower wrote: »

The Income and Expenditure accounts are fairly transparant. I don't really see where the dishonesty is.

No one seems to mention the deficit at all, which is the primary reason for increased taxes and reduced services.

I'd start by cutting the waste in this country before I'd try and monetise the family home.

gerryo777 · 21-02-2012 10:11pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

You either knew exactly what you were getting when you bought a house with a large tax on it and no connection to mains water or sewerage or you are very stupid indeed.

There are many more local services that local authorities provide other than providing services to people who choose - yes choose - to live in areas that don't have them.

This may well be yet another tax to pay off other people's debts, but the "I already pay my own way" line that many rural dwellers spout out at times like these, is quite frankly a load of bollox.

I pay €300 per year for a service contract on my bio-cycle unit to keep it in top working condition, I also paid over €10,000 to have it installed.
How much do you pay yearly for sewerage treatment?

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 10:12pm

Ghandee wrote: »

Hi Donal.

I pay €580 a year on my motor tax.
I also pay approx €40 a week on tolls, Naas to airport, airport to port tunnel, port tunnel back to airport, and airport to home in the evenings again.

That's give or take two grand a year for Christs sake.

My job requires me to drive to these places, its part of life, no point complaining about it.

But, for you to defend the state of or roads is laughable.

A classic example of paying twice for something right there! :cool:

Where did I defend the state of the roads? I said the reason they are so bad is because there isnt enough money to repair them, which I think is the opposite of defending them dont you?:cool:

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 10:13pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

I pay €300 per year for a service contract on my bio-cycle unit to keep it in top working condition, I also paid over €10,000 to have it installed.
How much do you pay yearly for sewerage treatment?

You chose to live there and pay that though didnt you?

starbelgrade · 21-02-2012 10:14pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

I pay €300 per year for a service contract on my bio-cycle unit to keep it in top working condition, I also paid over €10,000 to have it installed.
How much do you pay yearly for sewerage treatment?

More than that. But I chose to live in a rural area, so it was my choice & I don't expect anyone else to pay for it, nor do I whinge about it as if it was something that was inherently unfair.

Ghandee · 21-02-2012 10:17pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Where did I defend the state of the roads? I said the reason they are so bad is because there isnt enough money to repair them, which I think is the opposite of defending them dont you?:cool:

How can there possibly not be enough to repair then though

we have among the highest yearly road tax in Europe, taxed to the hilt on fuel, carbon taxed and yet they still toll loads of roads

Motor tax + tolled road = paying twice for the same service (more or less) or am I missing something?

gerryo777 · 21-02-2012 10:19pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

More than that. But I chose to live in a rural area, so it was my choice & I don't expect anyone else to pay for it, nor do I whinge about it as if it was something that was inherently unfair.

Yea, but people choose to live in urban areas and expect rural dwellers to cough up some of their taxes to pay for treating their sewerage too.
I'm not whinging about it but it is a valid point.
BTW, how much is your service contract costing you?

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 10:22pm

Ghandee wrote: »

How can there possibly not be enough to repair then though

we have among the highest yearly road tax in Europe, taxed to the hilt on fuel, carbon taxed and yet they still toll loads of roads

Motor tax + tolled road = paying twice for the same service (more or less) or am I missing something?

Yes you are missing the main point, you see Motor Tax doesnt solely pay for the Roads it pays for all local services as I pointed out previously your €580 is centralised and then sent back to LA's as part of the Local Government Fund which is used to cover every aspect of a LA's budget and functions. As for tolls well they are generally placed on roads that have been built by PPP and a condition of the contract is that the private company places a toll on the road to recoup their investment otherwise what would be the point in them getting involved?

gerryo777 · 21-02-2012 10:22pm

Ghandee wrote: »

How can there possibly not be enough to repair then though

we have among the highest yearly road tax in Europe, taxed to the hilt on fuel, carbon taxed and yet they still toll loads of roads

Motor tax + tolled road = paying twice for the same service (more or less) or am I missing something?

They have the motorist by the short & curleys so they can tax motoring as much as they like.
Years of under investment in public transport means that most people in this country have to own a car.

Ghandee · 21-02-2012 10:28pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Yes you are missing the main point, you see Motor Tax doesnt solely pay for the Roads it pays for all local services as I pointed out previously your €580 is centralised and then sent back to LA's as part of the Local Government Fund which is used to cover every aspect of a LA's budget and functions. As for tolls well they are generally placed on roads that have been built by PPP and a condition of the contract is that the private company places a toll on the road to recoup their investment otherwise what would be the point in them getting involved?

Ah, but the household charge is also going to pay for local services.

So, essentially if you own a car, and you own a house, your paying twice for the same service?

Your not really winning your argument Donal.

I do agree with some of your points made, but for us to be expected to pay twice for one service is ridiculous. Give me that at least?

starbelgrade · 21-02-2012 10:30pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

Yea, but people choose to live in urban areas and expect rural dwellers to cough up some of their taxes to pay for treating their sewerage too.
I'm not whinging about it but it is a valid point.
BTW, how much is your service contract costing you?

Bout three fiddy.

Ghandee · 21-02-2012 10:31pm

starbelgrade wrote: »

Bout three fiddy.

I taught it was 'tree fiddy' hoss? :pac:

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 10:32pm

Ghandee wrote: »

Ah, but the household charge is also going to pay for local services.

So, essentially if you own a car, and you own a house, your paying twice for the same service?

Your not really winning your argument Donal.

I do agree with some of your points made, but for us to be expected to pay twice for one service is ridiculous. Give me that at least?

Not really though you see your motor tax doesnt cover the cost of repairs to the roads so you arent really paying for it you are paying say 80% so the household charge is going to help fund the other 20% so its not like you are paying twice really now is it? You will only be paying once and chances are the money raised by the household charge this year wont cover the full amount hence the planned introduction of a property tax.

gerryo777 · 21-02-2012 10:33pm

Ghandee wrote: »

Ah, but the household charge is also going to pay for local services.

So, essentially if you own a car, and you own a house, your paying twice for the same service?

Your not really winning your argument Donal.

I do agree with some of your points made, but for us to be expected to pay twice for one service is ridiculous. Give me that at least?

That's like me with my mini sewerage treatment plant, I pay for that but I'm also paying for the treatment plant that serves my local town.

Bruthal · 21-02-2012 10:49pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Not really though you see your motor tax doesnt cover the cost of repairs to the roads so you arent really paying for it you are paying say 80% so the household charge is going to help fund the other 20% so its not like you are paying twice really now is it? You will only be paying once and chances are the money raised by the household charge this year wont cover the full amount hence the planned introduction of a property tax.

Its funny how you differentiate, as if this years payment is not a tax.

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 10:53pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Its funny how you differentiate, as if this years payment is not a tax.

Whatever. I am calling them by their names what else would you like me to call them, it is known as the household charge and will be replaced by the property tax its very simple really. I didnt come up with the names so its not really me that is differentiating now is it.:rolleyes:

Bruthal · 21-02-2012 11:00pm

donalg1 wrote: »

Whatever. I am calling them by their names what else would you like me to call them, it is known as the household charge and will be replaced by the property tax its very simple really. I didnt come up with the names so its not really me that is differentiating now is it.:rolleyes:

Ok donal, so its not a tax this year, just a charge. Common sense hey.

Predicts the "attack the poster not the post" auto answer next.

donalg1 · 21-02-2012 11:03pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Ok donal, so its not a tax this year, just a charge. Common sense hey.

Predicts the "attack the poster not the post" auto answer next.

Dont be so silly Robbie please ffs. Did I say anything about what it is, no I didnt I explained to you what they are called, I dont think you should be on this thread if you dont know what you are here talking about.;)

Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

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