Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, you're unable to edit my original post to suit your own posts and can only edit my post in your responses. Shame for you that isn't it robbie oh well

Whats unfortunate about it? No one will give a fook about that ever again. Except you by the look of it. The superior donal.

donalg1

robbie7730 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Unfortunately for you, you're unable to edit my original post to suit your own posts and can only edit my post in your responses. Shame for you that isn't it robbie oh well

Whats unfortunate about it? No one will give a fook about that ever again. Except you by the look of it. The superior donal.

It's unfortunate for you robbie as it makes you look silly when your response has my post edited to suit you while my actual original post is there for all to see. Basically ruins any small bit of credibility you have on boards.

Still not answering any of my questions though instead claiming I said something and when I ask you to show me where I said it you reply with nonsense. Why ate you here posting on this thread you have made no contribution to the actual discussion this evening instead you are making stuff up and making some ridiculous claims and editing other people's posts.

squod

starbelgrade wrote: »

There's zero chance of the government doing a u-turn on this one.

This isn't the first time a property tax was made law. It has always failed before. 96% of people didn't pay last time for example.

starbelgrade wrote: »

I really don't get the point in these protests.

I do. It's an attack by the government on some people specifically. Of the 1.6 million households, ~ 400,000 won't have to pay.

• Top earners won't even worry about paying as tax evasion among the rich is traditionally embraced by FF/FG.
• Those in social housing account for 250,000 homes and I'm sure some of them can afford to pay it. Politics for you!
• Those people who bough homes from shonky builders won't have to pay, but people who already live in areas where services and infastructure are poor still have to.
• 70,000 homes have mortgage arrears and could well be worse off than those in social housing still have to pay. The official working poor are not let off the hook.

I could argue until the cows come home on this issue. It's direct taxation on the worker to support the pension schemes of pen-pushers in the civil service. I doubt much more than 40% of whatever cash gets turned over to the local authorities will directly benefit the local people.

Strikes me that this is a simple caper, a con.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSC2U2yYESw

MadYaker

So according to the Irish Times today 7% of households have payed. With just over a month to go before the deadline it seems unlikely that all of the remaining 93% will pay. Im sure some will give in and pay in the last few weeks but its going to be interesting to see how this developes.

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Where did I say anything about cheap sloganeering populist whatever seriously show me dare ya to.

Nice deflection attempt obviously run out of anything constructive to say hence that post and the fool post which btw has lost you all credibility

donalg1 wrote: »

Good lad yourself insult me and that will really help your credibility round here. Just shows you have absolutely nothing to say and nothing going on between your ears. Very classy though well done to you.

Ok boy?

donalg1 wrote: »

Excuse me? What makes you think I am angry or I abuse and Insult anyone and everyone that disagrees with me. Would be surprised if you could show me where I gave abused anyone.

Kinda done with you tayto tbh you lost all credibility when you began insulting me.

donalg1 wrote: »

The law according to me really? Or is it just law? Pretty childish answer there Robbie but well done for losing any credibility you had left.

donalg1 wrote: »

I think you should check the meaning of the word troll tayto. I ask you a direct question I make it the easiest question possible for you and you respond with an insult.

Pretty obvious who the troll is tayto.

donalg1 wrote: »

So now I'm a corrupt scumbag good lad. Think you should seek help for your issues there.

Can you please explain how I am a corrupt scumbag and please try do do without any abuse or insults if you think you can manage. And please elaborate on what I did to harm your friends or family?

What is your point again the abuse you spout is clouding it.

donalg1 wrote: »

Ha ha good one so you won't answer my question then just throw your toys out of the pram and try come up with a silly insult. Think you need to be heading to the junior section.

It was a very straight forward question and your childish response proves to me that you are unable to act like an adult

donalg1 wrote: »

It's unfortunate for you robbie as it makes you look silly when your response has my post edited to suit you while my actual original post is there for all to see. Basically ruins any small bit of credibility you have on boards.

You seem fond of that phrase, and the "i`ve been insulted" one.

donalg1

robbie7730 wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Where did I say anything about cheap sloganeering populist whatever seriously show me dare ya to.

Nice deflection attempt obviously run out of anything constructive to say hence that post and the fool post which btw has lost you all credibility

donalg1 wrote: »

Good lad yourself insult me and that will really help your credibility round here. Just shows you have absolutely nothing to say and nothing going on between your ears. Very classy though well done to you.

Ok boy?

donalg1 wrote: »

Excuse me? What makes you think I am angry or I abuse and Insult anyone and everyone that disagrees with me. Would be surprised if you could show me where I gave abused anyone.

Kinda done with you tayto tbh you lost all credibility when you began insulting me.

donalg1 wrote: »

The law according to me really? Or is it just law? Pretty childish answer there Robbie but well done for losing any credibility you had left.

donalg1 wrote: »

I think you should check the meaning of the word troll tayto. I ask you a direct question I make it the easiest question possible for you and you respond with an insult.

Pretty obvious who the troll is tayto.

donalg1 wrote: »

So now I'm a corrupt scumbag good lad. Think you should seek help for your issues there.

Can you please explain how I am a corrupt scumbag and please try do do without any abuse or insults if you think you can manage. And please elaborate on what I did to harm your friends or family?

What is your point again the abuse you spout is clouding it.

donalg1 wrote: »

Ha ha good one so you won't answer my question then just throw your toys out of the pram and try come up with a silly insult. Think you need to be heading to the junior section.

It was a very straight forward question and your childish response proves to me that you are unable to act like an adult

donalg1 wrote: »

It's unfortunate for you robbie as it makes you look silly when your response has my post edited to suit you while my actual original post is there for all to see. Basically ruins any small bit of credibility you have on boards.

You seem fond of that phrase, and the "i`ve been insulted" one.

Well when it applies I say it. I notice your still not answering any questions though.

JCabot

My biggest problem with this is having bought a house at the height of the property boom and paid a silly stamp duty tax I am now asked to pay tax again on this property. Will the goverment refund me the tax already paid ?

I believe what makes a country is its people and the majority of us are burdened with the mistakes of the few. This goverment is totally out of touch with its people and this will be evident at the end of March when its understood just how many have not paid.

Its also obvious just how little coverage this is getting in the media.

thierrym

This is a great and ever so true quote from another boards.ie member:

"Not 1 cent of this money will go to street lighting, libraries or leisure amenities. It all goes straight to the billionnaire unsecured bond holders to make hundreds of more millions profit on the backs of the irish paddy or mary. Note the €1.27 billion handed over yesterday. Fools that we are! and a government not worthy of the name.

All this while old folks homes are closed, hospital beds closed, gardai are laid off, nurses laid off, fire fighters laid off added to thousands of cuts left right and centre.

No wonder really when people are so easily fooled by government spin, lies and a 'sure what else can we do' crawling on their bellies attitude. Paddy lie down all over again.

Get some backbone and stand up for your yourself, your family and all the other victims of this outrage"


This quote needs to be repeated on all the threads about the household charge and everybody in Ireland should be aware of its contents.

Bruthal

donalg1 wrote: »

Well when it applies I say it.

Yea, like when a driver is going the wrong way down the motorway, its everyone else thats going the wrong way.

Bruthal

thierrym wrote: »

This is a great and ever so true quote from another boards.ie member:

"Not 1 cent of this money will go to street lighting, libraries or leisure amenities. It all goes straight to the billionnaire unsecured bond holders to make hundreds of more millions profit on the backs of the irish paddy or mary. Note the €1.27 billion handed over yesterday. Fools that we are! and a government not worthy of the name.

All this while old folks homes are closed, hospital beds closed, gardai are laid off, nurses laid off, fire fighters laid off added to thousands of cuts left right and centre.

No wonder really when people are so easily fooled by government spin, lies and a 'sure what else can we do' crawling on their bellies attitude. Paddy lie down all over again.

Get some backbone and stand up for your yourself, your family and all the other victims of this outrage"


This quote needs to be repeated on all the threads about the household charge and everybody in Ireland should be aware of its contents.

It will be interesting to see what happens as the final date gets close. Will there be a surge of registrations?

niallers1

robbie7730 wrote: »

It will be interesting to see what happens as the final date gets close. Will there be a surge of registrations?

I don't think so. The only person I know who has paid it is working for the housing department in the council( I presume they had to if they will be asked to enforce it)

I'm guessing a large proportion of the people who have registerd to pay are those who are expempt from the charge.

If you take those who are exempt but registered then I think the real number is very small who have actually or who will actually pay this tax to pay back the speculators.

Actually, Can we just be done and call it a speculator repayment tax instead?

gerryo777

niallers1 wrote: »

I don't think so. The only person I know who has paid it is working for the housing department in the council( I presume they had to if they will be asked to enforce it)

I'm guessing a large proportion of the people who have registerd to pay are those who are expempt from the charge.

If you take those who are exempt but registered then I think the real number is very small who have actually or who will actually pay this tax to pay back the speculators.

Actually, Can we just be done and call it a speculator repayment tax instead?

At least if it was called a speculator/gambler repayment tax people would understand exactly where their money is going.

I wish people would understand, the government want to charge this tax to fund local government but the reason for this is that funding from central government to local councils is being reduced in order to pay off the debts that the so called 'elite' of this country incurred.

DON'T REGISTER / DON'T PAY

Mr CJ

niallers1 wrote: »

My paye/prsi/USC/Vat/Road Tax/vehicle registration tax/Stamp duty when buying a home/Second home Tax/Inheritence Tax e.t.c e.t.c. e.t.c Pay for those services.
This new tax is to pay back the debts of professional investors. They messed up. They should pay. Not me.

If people in those services are being paid too much then that's a different arguement. Lets Benchmark our Politicians and public servents/civil servants against the countries we compete against first then look at taxation.

An ideal world when people pay for there own mistakes pity it does not happen very often sure now we are giving away the likes of 160k to criminals and the victim has to pay out... makes you laugh!

Same can be said about insurance... why in gods name am I paying out more insurance now because mary down the road crashes her car??

I would love to see the day when everyone has to pay for there own mistakes but im sure ill be waiting a long time.

Mr CJ

Groinshot wrote: »

What really gets me going is how TD's are protesting against it. Surely they should be up for aiding tax evasion?

They are fighting for us the people of Ireland who are sick of the government demanding us to take there crap.

If they brought in the death penalty tomorrow for driving without a licence would you still object to TD's protesting?? Dont say that is different because its not they are going against a law same thing!

All I can say is thank god we have government members willing to fight for me and you, this prevents a totalitarian government and anyone who is against them need to cop on!!

Sam Vimes

Mr CJ wrote: »

They are fighting for us the people of Ireland who are sick of the government demanding us to take there crap.

If they brought in the death penalty tomorrow for driving without a licence would you still object to TD's protesting?? Dont say that is different because its not they are going against a law same thing!

All I can say is thank god we have government members willing to fight for me and you, this prevents a totalitarian government and anyone who is against them need to cop on!!

Statements like that always confuse me. It's as if some people think that the government are sitting in a dark room somewhere stroking white cats and plotting their next evil scheme to screw people over for their own personal gain.

The household charge is massively unpopular. No one wants to pay it, even the people arguing why we should. I can't see any way that anyone in government benefits personally from bringing in this charge; the only effect I can see this having on the government is that it makes them far less likely to be re-elected.

Would you not ask yourself why someone would do something that has does not benefit themselves in any way and vastly increases their chances of being out of a job? As far as I can see there are 4 possible explanations:

1. They're evil people who like to inflict pain on others for the lulz
2. They're super villains but they're really really stupid so they've enacted a plan that brings them no benefit and actually hurts them
3. There are viable and practical alternatives that they're ignoring. But then you have to ask yourself why they're ignoring them and choosing to inflict pain that they don't have to, which really only leaves you with options 1 and 2
4. Where alternatives are proposed by their critics (because often they do little more than shout angry slogans), there are valid reasons why these solutions can't be implemented and, galling and all as it is, the current course of action is the best, at least for now

gerryo777

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Statements like that always confuse me. It's as if some people think that the government are sitting in a dark room somewhere stroking white cats and plotting their next evil scheme to screw people over for their own personal gain.

The household charge is massively unpopular. No one wants to pay it, even the people arguing why we should. I can't see any way that anyone in government benefits personally from bringing in this charge; the only effect I can see this having on the government is that it makes them far less likely to be re-elected.

Would you not ask yourself why someone would do something that has does not benefit themselves in any way and vastly increases their chances of being out of a job? As far as I can see there are 4 possible explanations:

1. They're evil people who like to inflict pain on others for the lulz
2. They're super villains but they're really really stupid so they've enacted a plan that brings them no benefit and actually hurts them
3. There are viable and practical alternatives that they're ignoring. But then you have to ask yourself why they're ignoring them and choosing to inflict pain that they don't have to, which really only leaves you with options 1 and 2
4. Where alternatives are proposed by their critics (because often they do little more than shout angry slogans), there are valid reasons why these solutions can't be implemented and, galling and all as it is, the current course of action is the best, at least for now

Maybe if they stood up to the unions and vested interests in the PS/CS and didn't award pay rises every year since this recession started they wouldn't need to create this new unjust charge on the family home.
And that's not PS/CS bashing, it's a plain fact!

Mr CJ

niallers1 wrote: »

I don't think so. The only person I know who has paid it is working for the housing department in the council( I presume they had to if they will be asked to enforce it)

I'm guessing a large proportion of the people who have registerd to pay are those who are expempt from the charge.

If you take those who are exempt but registered then I think the real number is very small who have actually or who will actually pay this tax to pay back the speculators.

Actually, Can we just be done and call it a speculator repayment tax instead?

Just to make sure and to prevent the minute chance of a surge at last minute how about hacking the site? :cool:

Sam Vimes

gerryo777 wrote: »

Maybe if they stood up to the unions and vested interests in the PS/CS and didn't award pay rises every year since this recession started they wouldn't need to create this new unjust charge on the family home.
And that's not PS/CS bashing, it's a plain fact!

Maybe not but that didn't really address my point. Were you attempting to address it or just saying something about government spending?

squod

Sam Vimes wrote: »

....the only effect I can see this having on the government is that it makes them far less likely to be re-elected.

All the benefits of sitting on your ass in opposition and none of the stresses of dealing with stuff like running a country. Enda and co are career politicians and used to a handy number.

Sam Vimes wrote: »

there are valid reasons why these solutions can't be implemented and, galling and all as it is, the current course of action is the best, at least for now

Such as? Seems to me this shower and the previous shower have done their level best to ignore good advice from well respected and intelligent people while wasting time pandering to unions, their' mates and the rich.

Lookat Sam Vimes, this is a non-runner. We've tried it before and it didn't work. Most people I've met have no interest in even discussing it any more.

FG immediately took sides when they took the reigns. Bailing out another worthless bank and wasting four billion in the process. See what that four billion could do? Save our asses!

I've said this before. If I had the opportunity I'd have several members of the government sectioned. They've clearly lost the run of themselves.

Mr CJ

gerryo777 wrote: »

This government is starting to become notable for its U-turns..........

Yes the great example is voting... how many times did we vote no for treaty's etc and to find out a few weeks later we are asked to vote again because the childern in government didnt get there own way. Sure why vote at all?? Freedom my arse! These actions make me more determined to vote NO but who are the complete morons that change there mind from a no to a yes ffs people.

By the way this can be defeated look at the video posted not long ago re the water charges in the 90s they lost and done a U-turn there! the same will happen again if people do not register!!

lets hope more clowns will not pay and the numbers will level of at around 10%

I often wonder what would we be like if we where under british rule today, we could certainly forget about a rising with the amount of sheeple we have!! James Connolly would be turning in his grave!!

This is an unfair tax FACT there are other fair means of making money! Dont be like a slave to your master paying this crap... DONT REGISTER DONT PAY!!

dvpower

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Would you not ask yourself why someone would do something that has does not benefit themselves in any way and vastly increases their chances of being out of a job? As far as I can see there are 4 possible explanations:

1. They're evil people who like to inflict pain on others for the lulz
2. They're super villains but they're really really stupid so they've enacted a plan that brings them no benefit and actually hurts them
3. There are viable and practical alternatives that they're ignoring. But then you have to ask yourself why they're ignoring them and choosing to inflict pain that they don't have to, which really only leaves you with options 1 and 2
4. Where alternatives are proposed by their critics (because often they do little more than shout angry slogans), there are valid reasons why these solutions can't be implemented and, galling and all as it is, the current course of action is the best, at least for now

*5. They are in the pockets of the bondholders / bankers / developers, who will reward them later if the electorate kick them out. Sure, they're on massive pensions anyway, and so disconnected from the people that they are supposed to serve, that they don't actually realise the damage they're doing.


* Not my view

Sam Vimes

squod wrote: »

All the benefits of sitting on your ass in opposition and none of the stresses of dealing with stuff like running a country. Enda and co are career politicians and used to a handy number.

Such as? Seems to me this shower and the previous shower have done their level best to ignore good advice from well respected and intelligent people while wasting time pandering to unions, their' mates and the rich.

Lookat Sam Vimes, this is a non-runner. We've tried it before and it didn't work. Most people I've met have no interest in even discussing it any more.

FG immediately took sides when they took the reigns. Bailing out another worthless bank and wasting four billion in the process. See what that four billion could do? Save our asses!

I've said this before. If I had the opportunity I'd have several members of the government sectioned. They've clearly lost the run of themselves.

To put it as politely and briefly as possible, I don't find that explanation particularly plausible. Anyone else want to take a crack at it?

gerryo777

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Maybe not but that didn't really address my point. Were you attempting to address it or just saying something about government spending?

Your third point there.
Over €160 million in pay rises this year in the PS/CS, don't pay these and drop this unjust charge.

Mr CJ

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Statements like that always confuse me. It's as if some people think that the government are sitting in a dark room somewhere stroking white cats and plotting their next evil scheme to screw people over for their own personal gain.

The household charge is massively unpopular. No one wants to pay it, even the people arguing why we should. I can't see any way that anyone in government benefits personally from bringing in this charge; the only effect I can see this having on the government is that it makes them far less likely to be re-elected.

Would you not ask yourself why someone would do something that has does not benefit themselves in any way and vastly increases their chances of being out of a job? As far as I can see there are 4 possible explanations:

1. They're evil people who like to inflict pain on others for the lulz
2. They're super villains but they're really really stupid so they've enacted a plan that brings them no benefit and actually hurts them
3. There are viable and practical alternatives that they're ignoring. But then you have to ask yourself why they're ignoring them and choosing to inflict pain that they don't have to, which really only leaves you with options 1 and 2
4. Where alternatives are proposed by their critics (because often they do little more than shout angry slogans), there are valid reasons why these solutions can't be implemented and, galling and all as it is, the current course of action is the best, at least for now

Do you honestly believe they are concerned on loosing a job taking into account there massive pensions and expenses they will recieve for life??

Explain to me please why they have not come up with an alternative solution either it being money making or cost saving?? Like this charge has been rushed in! I will give you the answer now... it is simply because we are the easy targets and the sheeple will always obey there master.
There are solutions even ones that have not been proposed that will work. If you get people from the real world who have there own business they would come up with better plans. but its to much hassle for them why would they bother?

Sam Vimes

gerryo777 wrote: »

Your third point there.
Over €160 million in pay rises this year in the PS/CS, don't pay these and drop this unjust charge.

Bearing in mind that I fully agree that the public sector needs massive cuts, why do you think they didn't do what you're suggesting?

I would think it's three reasons:
1. Those rises were part of the croke park agreement and reneging on it (at least for now) would cause more problems than it would solve
2. A property tax was part of the agreement with the IMF so they would have had to bring it in away
3. We're 18 billion a year in the hole. It's not a case of either-or, we need both and a whole lot more to balance the books

So why do you think they didn't do your suggestion?

tayto lover

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Statements like that always confuse me. It's as if some people think that the government are sitting in a dark room somewhere stroking white cats and plotting their next evil scheme to screw people over for their own personal gain.

The household charge is massively unpopular. No one wants to pay it, even the people arguing why we should. I can't see any way that anyone in government benefits personally from bringing in this charge; the only effect I can see this having on the government is that it makes them far less likely to be re-elected.

Would you not ask yourself why someone would do something that has does not benefit themselves in any way and vastly increases their chances of being out of a job? As far as I can see there are 4 possible explanations:

1. They're evil people who like to inflict pain on others for the lulz
2. They're super villains but they're really really stupid so they've enacted a plan that brings them no benefit and actually hurts them
3. There are viable and practical alternatives that they're ignoring. But then you have to ask yourself why they're ignoring them and choosing to inflict pain that they don't have to, which really only leaves you with options 1 and 2
4. Where alternatives are proposed by their critics (because often they do little more than shout angry slogans), there are valid reasons why these solutions can't be implemented and, galling and all as it is, the current course of action is the best, at least for now

Just as a matter of interest, how would we have fared if we hadn't agreed to pay the unguaranteed bondholders and decided to let Anglo go to the wall ?

gerryo777

How about cutting the massive €2.7 billion spent every year on state pensions.

Not for new recruits as they are proposing, which won't kick in for about 30 years, but for existing pension arrangements.

How about not paying the likes of Dermot McCarthy lump sums of €713,000.00
and topping up his years of service to ensure he gets the full allowance until he's dead.

How about they stop screwing normal people in this country into the ground and leaving them with enough disposable income that they will spend in the domestic economy and in turn create jobs.

How about people stop making excuses for the way this country is been run, it's as if the attitude of some on here is 'we deserved this'!

Sam Vimes

Mr CJ wrote: »

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Statements like that always confuse me. It's as if some people think that the government are sitting in a dark room somewhere stroking white cats and plotting their next evil scheme to screw people over for their own personal gain.

The household charge is massively unpopular. No one wants to pay it, even the people arguing why we should. I can't see any way that anyone in government benefits personally from bringing in this charge; the only effect I can see this having on the government is that it makes them far less likely to be re-elected.

Would you not ask yourself why someone would do something that has does not benefit themselves in any way and vastly increases their chances of being out of a job? As far as I can see there are 4 possible explanations:

1. They're evil people who like to inflict pain on others for the lulz
2. They're super villains but they're really really stupid so they've enacted a plan that brings them no benefit and actually hurts them
3. There are viable and practical alternatives that they're ignoring. But then you have to ask yourself why they're ignoring them and choosing to inflict pain that they don't have to, which really only leaves you with options 1 and 2
4. Where alternatives are proposed by their critics (because often they do little more than shout angry slogans), there are valid reasons why these solutions can't be implemented and, galling and all as it is, the current course of action is the best, at least for now

Do you honestly believe they are concerned on loosing a job taking into account there massive pensions and expenses they will recieve for life??

Explain to me please why they have not come up with an alternative solution either it being money making or cost saving?? Like this charge has been rushed in! I will give you the answer now... it is simply because we are the easy targets and the sheeple will always obey there master.
There are solutions even ones that have not been proposed that will work. If you get people from the real world who have there own business they would come up with better plans. but its to much hassle for them why would they bother?

Right so you think they're just lazy and that they're not bothered about being re-elected with all the extra money that brings

But try to think about this from their point of view. They can employ as many very clever advisors as they want to come up with alternative solutions that don't cause massive hardship, if such solutions exist and are as easy to think of and implement as you suggest.

Just how lazy and evil would someone have to be to just not bother paying someone to implement one of these solutions and just close hospitals etc instead?

gerryo777

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Bearing in mind that I fully agree that the public sector needs massive cuts, why do you think they didn't do what you're suggesting?

I would think it's three reasons:
1. Those rises were part of the croke park agreement and reneging on it (at least for now) would cause more problems than it would solve
2. A property tax was part of the agreement with the IMF so they would have had to bring it in away
3. We're 18 billion a year in the hole. It's not a case of either-or, we need both and a whole lot more to balance the books

So why do you think they didn't do your suggestion?

The Croke park agreement is a sham, more pandering to the unions.
The government run the country, not Jack O'Conner and his cronies.

The agreement with the IMF did mention a property tax, it never set the rate.

We're €18 billion in a hole mostly because of massive unemployment (SW bill), We need people back at work and paying taxes, by screwing everyone for every last cent they have the unemployment rate will not fall due to the flatlining of the domestic economy.

Sam Vimes

tayto lover wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, how would we have fared if we hadn't agreed to pay the unguaranteed bondholders and decided to let Anglo go to the wall ?

No idea,.what's your point?