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Secret Diary of a Dublin Call Girl

24567…17

Comments

  • #32
    Sacred_git
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 337 ✭✭Sacred_git


    the girl is a prostitute, she is being paid to provide a service,which would also include faking it? clearly she has a problem with this side of things, maybe she should find a new career. I have no sympathy for anyone in this trade unless of course she was/is forced into it, she needs to do a better job, shes being paid to do so.
    And as for the inspirational comment/good read, great writer - you need to wake up!


  • #33
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Her claims of victimisation and her new found sense of wholesomeness and empathy are kind of in conflict with the amount of bile that she spouts towards all and sundry. Which was kind of my point.

    I agree; but I think that (assuming that she is a real person) she retains a lot of issues and is not at all healed. Yet, hopefully.
    Another factor is that in such a victim-perp thinking, to which she is entitled with her biography, she can very well feel empathy towards perceived victims and still rage towards the perps; she sees the author of the book as an impostor perpetrating the image of prostitution as harmless fun and frolicking, therefore on the side of the perps.


  • #34
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    Sacred_git wrote: »
    the girl is a prostitute, she is being paid to provide a service,which would also include faking it? clearly she has a problem with this side of things, maybe she should find a new career. I have no sympathy for anyone in this trade unless of course she was/is forced into it, she needs to do a better job, shes being paid to do so.
    And as for the inspirational comment/good read, great writer - you need to wake up!
    Why? do you not like the idea that the reality of prostitution is very different to what you think it actually is?
    We're on different sides of the fence here and tbh the last few posts do sound like they are coming from the punters gate. You need to listen up.


  • #35
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    mhge wrote: »
    She has a post on why exactly she finds the book not to be believable, by comparing it with her experience. Might explain the remark quite a bit.

    Penguin's legal team have said that they believe that "Between The Sheets" is factual, the author was even interviewed by Marian Finucane.


  • #36
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    Babybuff wrote: »
    We're on different sides of the fence here and tbh the last few posts do sound like they are coming from the punters gate.

    Are you serious? Anyone who calls BS on these articles is being labeled a 'punter' now? Oh deary me.


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  • #37
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    Folks, lets not get side tracked from the purpose of the OP. Surely we don't have to reiterate - yet again - the purpose of this forum?

    Anyone wanting to discuss the topic from any other perspective are free to start a thread in the appropriate forum.


  • #38
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    The_Thing wrote: »
    Penguin's legal team have said that they believe that "Between The Sheets" is factual, the author was even interviewed by Marian Finucane.

    I can't claim I've read the whole book, I browsed through my friend's copy, but the way it felt is that if there was any real story in it at all, it got all sugar coated by some chick-lit ghost writers brought in to help. It's not that I don't believe a sex worker can be happy with her job - but the book was of the champagne happy hooker adventures sort.


  • #39
    neuro-praxis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭neuro-praxis


    I'm pretty disappointed with some of the responses here. They seem to be coming from those who don't like having their comfortable notions of what prostitution is like for a woman challenged.

    Of course nobody has any way of knowing for certain that it is authentic. However the raw emotion is pretty real and rings true.

    I work with men who have been labelled monsters, even in this very thread. Men like Larry Murphy. The reality is they aren't monsters. They are men who started with "small" acts of objectification and got deeper and deeper into depravity. And absolutely all of them used prostitutes. And the language that she references in terms of her abuse and objectification, I have heard echoed by these men.

    I also have a person close to me who got into an abusive relationship with a man who coerced her into prostitution. He used her as his own personal sex toy and she went with it out of ignorance and non-existent self-esteem. She thought it meant she was desirable. She has been permanently scarred by this experience. So the psychology of what this blogger allegedly did, while it may seem absurd to someone with healthy and functioning relationships, would not be as uncommon as you think. The person who coerced my friend into prostitution, incidentally, was a GP.

    This account struck a deep chord with me. If true, this woman is incredibly brave, and it makes perfect sense to me that she has both restored her life, and in doing so, become intensely angry with her abusers, herself and the punters who paid her for sex. It's the right response.


  • #40
    The_Thing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭The_Thing


    mhge wrote: »
    ...she sees the author of the book as an impostor perpetrating the image of prostitution as harmless fun and frolicking, therefore on the side of the perps.

    But she has also dismissed Brooke Magnanti AKA Belle de Jour, this woman has a Phd and as such would not fit the "typical profile" of a prostitute that the media portrays.


  • #41
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    The_Thing wrote: »
    But she has also dismissed Brooke Magnanti AKA Belle de Jour

    Yes but she does not dismiss her as nonexistent. She critisises her for promoting the image of a fulfilled high class hooker being a typical prostitute and then the film industry for further glamourising it.
    this woman has a Phd and as such would not fit the "typical profile" of a prostitute that the media portrays.

    ... or perhaps "as such would not fit the "typical profile" of a prostitute", full stop. Typical prostitutes don't get TV shows though, that's DCG's point.


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  • #42
    Sacred_git
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 337 ✭✭Sacred_git


    im not looking at if from any pounters perspective, personally i find the whole idea of it a big turn off, i have been to amsterdam many times, looking at the "punters" q'ing up to go in, i find it a big turn off to be with a girl who just fcuked a few men the same day, i dont knoe how men pay for this tbh!


  • #43
    gcgirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,044 ✭✭✭gcgirl


    Hollypop wrote: »
    I'm watching a similar program on Netflicks. It's fantastic. The uk one.
    Billie piper ;)


  • #44
    mrsdewinter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,190 ✭✭✭mrsdewinter


    I'm with Rainbow - as a woman, I find DCG all too credible. Far more credible than Belle du Jour


  • #45
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    gcgirl wrote: »
    Originally Posted by Hollypop viewpost.gif
    I'm watching a similar program on Netflicks. It's fantastic. The uk one.

    Billie piper ;)

    This is precisely the one DCG critisises. I guess this is what people think the whole business is about, thanks to Belle du Jour...


  • #46
    Badhb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭Badhb


    neuro-praxis wrote: »
    I'm pretty disappointed with some of the responses here. They seem to be coming from those who don't like having their comfortable notions of what prostitution is like for a woman challenged.

    Of course nobody has any way of knowing for certain that it is authentic. However the raw emotion is pretty real and rings true.

    I work with men who have been labelled monsters, even in this very thread. Men like Larry Murphy. The reality is they aren't monsters. They are men who started with "small" acts of objectification and got deeper and deeper into depravity. And absolutely all of them used prostitutes. And the language that she references in terms of her abuse and objectification, I have heard echoed by these men.

    I also have a person close to me who got into an abusive relationship with a man who coerced her into prostitution. He used her as his own personal sex toy and she went with it out of ignorance and non-existent self-esteem. She thought it meant she was desirable. She has been permanently scarred by this experience. So the psychology of what this blogger allegedly did, while it may seem absurd to someone with healthy and functioning relationships, would not be as uncommon as you think. The person who coerced my friend into prostitution, incidentally, was a GP.

    This account struck a deep chord with me. If true, this woman is incredibly brave, and it makes perfect sense to me that she has both restored her life, and in doing so, become intensely angry with her abusers, herself and the punters who paid her for sex. It's the right response.

    This is excellent, Neuro praxis.
    Had a skim through the blog, blew my mind open. I was very pro sex worker agenda, but this has made me think.

    While I still firmly believe there should be decriminalisation, and more importantly laws to protect sex workers, and believe me, I am no ruhama fan, I was forced to consider some stuff from this blog.

    There is too much of a grey area here with women who are vulnerable; in the areas of self esteem, experience etc, that can enable the route to sex working even outwith the major horrors of coecion, addiction, tafficking and pimping.

    I really had not thought about this. Dublincallgirl's blog really puts this into view.

    Since this, I am even wondering about the laissez-faire attitude to porn that I used to hold, assuming its the norm and its ok.

    Dublincallgirl is well educated, by her own admission, to masters level.
    She is not someone to get lampooned by a right wing organisation, in fact when you spend the time reading her posts, it seems that she really is her own woman with no agenda.

    That's just my appraisal of her blogs from her, but must say, having been so vehemently pro sex worker in the past, it has made me question where or what some of them are coming from.
    Having said that, I still think there should be legislation in place to protect the sex workers and not the punters.


  • #47
    Eileen_Lang
    Closed Accounts Posts: 134 ✭✭Eileen_Lang


    I hated being a prostitute...I was really horribly abused as a child...and I definatly have PTSD too...which all means that I have also met a lot of other women (and girls ) coming from the same places, with their own, particular, individual reaction and yet I have never come across anyone remotely like her...not just in terms of this curious "compulsive prostitution as self harm" pathology but also in the totally self absorbed inverted relish with which she expresses herself.

    I ran it past a psychologist I know and she pointed out that she was also well on her way to working in every single deliberate misconception promoted by the more fanatical aspects of the abolitionists to date.

    Personally, I approached it with an open mind, but I cannot find anything believable or identifiable with.

    If I were to tell you all I know about how traumatic and devastating prostitution can be, it would not be all about "me, Me, ME" it would mostly be about all the other people I saw, go through various kinds of hell, who didn't have money and supportive friends and family so they could walk away and time, and had to just stay, and make the best of it...and how incredibly brave, and funny and uncomplaining they were, and still are, about that...

    ...and the compassion and understanding they often (not always - they were not saints) could still find for other people, often better off than themselves.

    This woman does not seem to be truly aware of the existance of anyone outside herself...

    I have suffered far more abuse than her worse nightmares (even as she tells them) I just hope that if I never come across as self pitying and self indulgernt as that.

    ...and of course it goes almost without saying that not one word she has said is an adequate excuse for demanding legislation to take away the incomes of women already in fare more hardship than she will ever know.


  • #48
    neuro-praxis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,184 ✭✭✭neuro-praxis


    Eileen_Lang wrote: »
    I hated being a prostitute...I was really horribly abused as a child...and I definatly have PTSD too...which all means that I have also met a lot of other women (and girls ) coming from the same places, with their own, particular, individual reaction and yet I have never come across anyone remotely like her...not just in terms of this curious "compulsive prostitution as self harm" pathology but also in the totally self absorbed inverted relish with which she expresses herself.

    I ran it past a psychologist I know and she pointed out that she was also well on her way to working in every single deliberate misconception promoted by the more fanatical aspects of the abolitionists to date.

    Personally, I approached it with an open mind, but I cannot find anything believable or identifiable with.

    If I were to tell you all I know about how traumatic and devastating prostitution can be, it would not be all about "me, Me, ME" it would mostly be about all the other people I saw, go through various kinds of hell, who didn't have money and supportive friends and family so they could walk away and time, and had to just stay, and make the best of it...and how incredibly brave, and funny and uncomplaining they were, and still are, about that...

    ...and the compassion and understanding they often (not always - they were not saints) could still find for other people, often better off than themselves.

    This woman does not seem to be truly aware of the existance of anyone outside herself...

    I have suffered far more abuse than her worse nightmares (even as she tells them) I just hope that if I never come across as self pitying and self indulgernt as that.

    ...and of course it goes almost without saying that not one word she has said is an adequate excuse for demanding legislation to take away the incomes of women already in fare more hardship than she will ever know.

    I have read and re-read this and want to respond with a measure of objectivity. I googled your username to see where else you are posting and I can't quite nail your position.

    There does seem to be a lot of contradiction in what you say, on boards and elsewhere. Your bottom line, appears to be, that you consider yourself an authority on the subject (and perhaps quite rightly so) but on the one hand you say you've had it worse than anyone and on the other you say you've had it easier? Some places you say prostitution was the most horrendous thing you have ever been through and simultaneously that you would lay down your life to keep prostitution alive. So I have no idea how to respond to you because I don't understand where you are coming from.

    I think you've been quick to pretty viciously attack this person here: if in fact the Dublin Call Girl person is just a complete fake then it won't make any difference. But consider that she is real. She says herself that she didn't fit the bill in terms of the average experience of a prostitute. I for example have no idea if you are telling the truth about your experience, so I take it at face value. This is the internet, after all.

    I think if you can't relate to her that's fair enough. How would you respond to the comments on the blog from other women who claim to have been escorts who do relate to her?


  • #49
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Barackpyjama I could guestimate that you have been with a prostitute. Your tone sounds very familiar to a man that I had a conversation with that has been with one. We are never going to win an argument with men who have been with prostitutes because it is too much for them to accept that they have contributed to severely emotionally damaging already damaged women. They need to keep up the fantasy that these are happy women who enjoy sex. When deep down they know that's complete fantasy.


  • #50
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    I decided to check out one of these review sites after reading this blog. I'm not sure it would be appropriate to link directly to it under the terms here but last night a poster added a message written "in response to people on a popular Irish message board who were jumping on the band-wagon of mindlessly shaming punters and the Irish escorting industry":
    What about the slaves in China and elsewhere working 16 hours a day for €2 or less to manufacture clothing, toys, phones etc., where's the outrage about that? It's non-existent, because we all consumes such items and of course it's not anywhere near as bad because they don't have to do the unthinkable and actually touch something so grotesque as an average Irish man . It's extremely easy for Irish females to sit there and shame their male counterparts who buy sex, as they do not have a clue about how male sexuality works; they simply compare it to their own inferior levels of sexual desire and blindly conclude that those males who do it must be woman-abusers and misogynists.

    The real issue here is the massive cultural valuation of casual sex that's inherit in modern Irish men. The fact that a huge proportion of us are willing to pay such outrageous amounts of money for a short period of sexual activity clearly shows that the reasoning behind it is psychologically ingrained and not due to physical desire. When men are subjected to living in an overly sexually stimulated culture in which casual sex is considered a compulsory recreational activity, certain consequences such as increased rates of rape and human trafficking for prostitution are unfortunately going to be inevitable; it's an unavoidable result of the libertarian society people are being compelled to want to have yet not willing to accept the consequences of. Our wise male ancestors of this earth realized and understood that in order for civilization to flourish, sex simply cannot be prevalent outside the context of marriage (or love at the very least). When a society experiences a complete breakdown in traditional gender roles largely due to false feminist propaganda, the romantic connection between the sexes is heavily diminished and male sexuality is left unconsolidated; in contemporary society it largely becomes channeled into pornography and other such forms of media and males and females' prevalent mentality towards sex becomes consistent of 'sex is dirty' type programming. Now, I know what I'm saying is way, way too deep for most Irish people who only like to take the superficial aspects of things into consideration, but deep reasoning is key in all complex issues whether you are blinded of the ability to comprehend it or not.

    What's the answer to the question of how to deal with the unfortunate prostitution scenario we have in this country? I'd love to say reverting back to the old monogamous system, where love and passion between men and woman in traditional gender roles was a lot more so the norm and people were truly much happier than they are now, but unfortunately we're far too deep into this mess; technology has moved on and irreversible cultural programming has taken place to make this an impossibility. The solution simply comes down to where the liberal current is taking us: full legalization. It's inevitable and only a matter of time and of course how many women we're willing to let be 'exploited and abused' by evil devils in the meantime. (face of self-righteousness)

    tldr: men have sexual needs people (and if the law changes women will be raped and traffiked to accommodate them)

    nice.


  • #51
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    neuro-praxis wrote: »

    I think you've been quick to pretty viciously attack this person here: if in fact the Dublin Call Girl person is just a complete fake then it won't make any difference. But consider that she is real. She says herself that she didn't fit the bill in terms of the average experience of a prostitute. I for example have no idea if you are telling the truth about your experience, so I take it at face value. This is the internet, after all.

    I think if you can't relate to her that's fair enough. How would you respond to the comments on the blog from other women who claim to have been escorts who do relate to her?

    Some really great points Neuro- Praxis. I also think DCG is authentic, but Scarlett O'Kelly is not.


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  • #52
    Ickle Magoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,485 ✭✭✭✭Ickle Magoo


    midlandsmissus, there are plenty of ways to make a point without resorting to inflammatory insults or accusations directed at other posters.

    If anyone has an issue with a post or poster then report it and let the mods deal with that poster - please help ensure the thread is not dragged away from the general topic of discussion as relevant to this forum until it has to be closed.

    Many thanks


  • #53
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Some really great points Neuro- Praxis. I also think DCG is authentic, but Scarlett O'Kelly is not.
    You can either take both of them at face value or neither of them. Picking one over the other is just reinforcing what you already believe and a very blinkered way of approaching it

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  • #54
    BarackPyjama
    Closed Accounts Posts: 974 ✭✭✭BarackPyjama


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    Barackpyjama I could guestimate that you have been with a prostitute. Your tone sounds very familiar to a man that I had a conversation with that has been with one. We are never going to win an argument with men who have been with prostitutes because it is too much for them to accept that they have contributed to severely emotionally damaging already damaged women. They need to keep up the fantasy that these are happy women who enjoy sex. When deep down they know that's complete fantasy.

    Wow. How do you even respond to that? I've already made myself clear that I'm not for the legalisation of prostitution never mind being someone who's ever availed of it as a service! Many people advocate legalisation and regulation; both men and women. Are they all punters and prostitutes themselves? Of course not.

    As I've mentioned, just because I don't give any credibility whatsoever to this bizarre blog, which is quite clearly fake, doesn't mean that you can tar me with the 'punter' brush. That's just childish. As I said earlier, it would be good to have an honest and open debate about the subject but it doesn't seem like many people in this country will be capable of that.


  • #55
    Babybuff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Babybuff


    BarackPyjama wrote: »
    Wow. How do you even respond to that? I've already made myself clear that I'm not for the legalisation of prostitution never mind being someone who's ever availed of it as a service! Many people advocate legalisation and regulation; both men and women. Are they all punters and prostitutes themselves? Of course not.

    As I've mentioned, just because I don't give any credibility whatsoever to this bizarre blog, which is quite clearly fake, doesn't mean that you can tar me with the 'punter' brush. That's just childish. As I said earlier, it would be good to have an honest and open debate about the subject but it doesn't seem like many people in this country will be capable of that.
    how could any kind of meaningful debate occur when you consider the evidence presented to you as "fake"? I can guarantee you it is an account of someone who has suffered a great deal of sexual abuse.
    And even if it were you have already been offered various viewpoints by women, ordinary women who haven't had to sell themselves but can never imagine wanting to be in the position where they would need to. Does that not give you some insight into how difficult an act it really is to comprehend for us?

    I would like to see laws which protect and educate and offer exit strategy's to these women way before any law which comfortably accommodates mens sexual needs is introduced.
    As for it being just a job, I've raised a child in Ireland single handedly and I managed without having to sell myself. I lived abroad without shelter with her for a time too and I'm still alive to tell the tale. The complexity's one persons experience versus the others is what seems to be frustrating you and you would be happier to see a consensus from all which would somehow neatly tie up your concerns and make you feel a little more comfortable about prostitution. that's not going to happen.


  • #56
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    28064212 wrote: »
    You can either take both of them at face value or neither of them. Picking one over the other is just reinforcing what you already believe and a very blinkered way of approaching it
    Nonsense; you don't know what I 'already believe'.


  • #57
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Nonsense; you don't know what I 'already believe'.
    So you took two anonymous, unverified anecdote-based accounts with opposing slants on an issue, and choose to believe solely the one which doesn't fit with your the side you were already on?

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  • #58
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    28064212 wrote: »
    So you took two anonymous, unverified anecdote-based accounts with opposing slants on an issue, and choose to believe solely the one which doesn't fit with your the side you were already on?

    Nope. That isn't what I did at all. Off you go now.


  • #59
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Nope. That isn't what I did at all. Off you go now.
    So you're not going to explain your reasons for believing the unverified account of DCG over the unverified account of Scarlett O'Kelly?

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  • #60
    fatmammycat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭fatmammycat


    28064212 wrote: »
    So you're not going to explain your reasons for believing the unverified account of DCG over the unverified account of Scarlett O'Kelly?

    Exactly, I don't need to explain anything to you, at all.


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  • #61
    28064212
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,000 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    fatmammycat wrote: »
    Exactly, I don't need to explain anything to you, at all.
    Not really sure where the hostility is coming from :confused: This is a discussion board, I assumed if you were posting here you were interested in a discussion

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