Anything bad to say about Austraila ?

jank · 11-02-2012 5:15pm

catbear wrote: »

To dislike the irish political culture is not self loathing. Ireland has serious accountability problems that i don't see being tackled anytime soon. There are many positives to ireland, but being told to belt up and not complain cause other places are worse is naive too.
Sometimes people complain about where they are because they really miss home but don't want to admit it, especially if home has nothing for them.

So disliking Ireland political culture makes Ireland a dump by default. As democracy in USA, Australia, NZ is a model of accountability and choice? Seriously!

catbear · 11-02-2012 5:35pm

It is possible to like a country but dislike its politics. However as much as you find joan naive, i find you to be a bore.
Please do rebut, i expect it.

supernova84 · 11-02-2012 10:49pm

Choose Canada instead

Zambia · 11-02-2012 11:13pm

MOD Catbear warning for name calling despite not exactly being the most offensive thing out there. Attack the post not the poster

Lads as heated as its been everyone has done a great job keeping it civil can we keep it like that

teepee · 11-02-2012 11:22pm

The thread is going off at a tangent , it will be locked in no time raving and waffling about bog all .

Zambia · 12-02-2012 12:05am

There is nothing wrong with threads going off on tangents as long as they are in the same vein.

catbear · 12-02-2012 2:58am

I know nothing about jank, his extrapulation of my post was pointless and i expressed my feeling about that as he expressed his feeling about joans posts as being naive. Where's janks warning?
Attacking posts for the sake of attack is a bore.

Xavi6 · 12-02-2012 3:07am

Martin Walker wrote: »

Ive been out here now for two years. Oz i a nice place but its far from perfect. Cost of living is too high. Thats my main gripe. If you think your gonna come here and become a high roller your dreaming. Unless you put in massive hours in the mines. But even then you pay massive rent because the people that own houses to let in the small "mining towns" just want to rip you off.

I disagree completely. The only thing I find quite expensive in Perth is the beer on a night out but you don't *have* to drink it.

Everything else is nicely relative to the good wages that can be obtained without going near a mine.

Father Damo · 12-02-2012 3:14am

hefferboi wrote: »

. Don't know how bad it is in Australia but your talking as if theres not much of it here. Travellers probably get it the worst and I wouldn't say there's "justification" in it.

.

You wouldnt say there is justification for prejudicial treatment against travellers?

Have you ever actually met any?

Would you trust them? Of course you wouldnt.

Jumpy · 12-02-2012 3:30am

puzzle factory wrote: »

man i seen an abroignal kid getting the absoutly fup gettin kicked outa him in palmerstown park because the ozzies said they were upsetting there australian day,and i was with the ozzies and when i when i went up to the law to taell them stop,i was told to fup off home potato eater,sydneys grand so is pert so is taz but the rest of the place is full of the lpwest type of reptiles,bar the odd few,dont tell me otherwise,i gave long enough dealen with em,dont get me wrong,theres sum dead nice people there,but theres 2 cnuts for every nice wan.

Yes. That didnt actually happen and you know it.

g5fd6ow0hseima · 12-02-2012 4:05am

Prior to coming to Australia last November I did perceive Australians to be racist, overtly racist. However, in my short time here I found that, with the exception of the Lebanese, Australians aren't racist considering the large number of immigrants the country plays host to. There are hundreds of thousands of Greeks, Italians, Chinese and Indians here and they all get on fine and are very well assimilated.

However as previously mentioned, the Lebanese are the exception, and to a lesser extent the Vietnamese. The most important factor that you have to consider about these two groups is the nature of their migration to Australian. Both populations are of refugee origin, and as is understandable, refugees tend to be less prepared or able to integrate successfully. Coming from the apocalyptic Beirut of the 1970s or the ravages of Vietnam in the same era weren't the greatest launching pads for a successful life in Australia. By the 1990s the Vietnamese community in Sydney became synonymous with heroin, while the Lebanese and the suburb of Lakemba became no go areas - drive by shootings became so bad that the local Police station was peppered by Lebanese gangs in the late 90s. As you can imagine the newspaper headlines the morning would have spread quite a lot of panic, with many fearing that the 'lebos' would do their suburbs what was done to Beirut. This lawlessness happened to tar the whole community with the one brush, all viewed as troublesome and violent. The level of understanding of the Lebanese community didnt really stretch beyond newspaper headlines of this kind, and an infamous Lebanese rape gang did their community awful damage too.

Then there was the fact that many of the Lebanese community are muslims - roughly half. The anti-islamic sentiment is no stronger or weaker in Australia than elsewhere in the white world, you just have to look at Holland, Sweden etc. But it was islam which was a dominant factor in the build-up to the Cronulla riots, an event which I recommend you should read up on. The Cronulla riots still linger in the minds of Australians, especially the younger generation, and some people will tell you that Australia Day has increased in importance since these riots.

Thankfully for the Vietnamese, their association with the heroin trade has become less and less over the years, and there was a good documentary about this called 'Once upon a time in Cabramatta', which was very interesting.

Every other race here is getting on grand, minding their own business, but for the Lebanese - specifically the Muslim population - I'm not sure if there is a bright future, but I feel the same way for muslims living everywhere in the western world. In secular, liberal Australia people most people have given up on religion, and naturally they would love if others did too.

So yeah, as has been said by previous posters, urban Australia isn't racist in my eyes at all, however im sure you'll find plenty of racist hicks outside of the cities, but they're everywhere. We have plenty of them back home.

jank · 12-02-2012 9:05am

catbear wrote: »

I know nothing about jank, his extrapulation of my post was pointless and i expressed my feeling about that as he expressed his feeling about joans posts as being naive. Where's janks warning?
Attacking posts for the sake of attack is a bore.

Perhaps you should read the charter first before posting any more. Then by all means if you actually have something to say then do rather then piggy backing other peoples comments.

Jumpy · 12-02-2012 12:08pm

Jazlyn Late Vocation wrote: »

But it was islam which was a dominant factor in the build-up to the Cronulla riots, an event which I recommend you should read up on. The Cronulla riots still linger in the minds of Australians, especially the younger generation, and some people will tell you that Australia Day has increased in importance since these riots.

What an utter load.

I grew up in Cronulla. It was an anti-violence march that got hijacked by westie rednecks via text message.
Islam had nothing and I repeat nothing to do with it.
A local was beaten up by non locals and locals came out to protest. Idiots swarmed in from the nethers of Sydney and turned it into a racist mob.

The retaliation that came afterwards from groups of Lebanese from further north unfortunately was aimed at Cronulla as opposed to the localities where the actual instigators were from.

g5fd6ow0hseima · 12-02-2012 1:19pm

Jumpy wrote: »

What an utter load.

I grew up in Cronulla. It was an anti-violence march that got hijacked by westie rednecks via text message.
Islam had nothing and I repeat nothing to do with it.
A local was beaten up by non locals and locals came out to protest. Idiots swarmed in from the nethers of Sydney and turned it into a racist mob.

The retaliation that came afterwards from groups of Lebanese from further north unfortunately was aimed at Cronulla as opposed to the localities where the actual instigators were from.

So the "Westie Redneck's" resentment of Lebanese folk for 'calling their women sluts' had nothing to do with it? Yes a fight involving lifeguards was the straw that broke the camels back, but wasnt this in the context that many Aussies felt that Lebanese males had gone too far with their incessant verbal harassment of beach-going Aussie girls? I've spoken to quite a number of Aussies about the riots in order to understand the social context as much as I can, and every time 'them calling our women sluts' was mentioned. And of course, oppression of women is dominant in Islam, therefore Islam did contribute to the rising animosity towards the Lebanese. Bottom line, if this group in question wasn't muslim, this sexism simply wouldnt be. There's nothing that makes one's blood boil more than cowardly oppression of women, so I feel it's fair to say that it was this factor which would have been a major catalyst in getting these 'westie rednecks' up off their couches.

Here's a quote from the Sydney Morning Herald, with another dimension in the last paragraph:

"She is from the district. She has seen many menacing incidents in Cronulla, and knows what girls at her school have had to endure for years from groups of young Lebanese men - the attempted pick-ups, the expletives, the comments about "virgins" and "Aussie sluts". "Every girl I know has either been harassed or knows someone who's been harassed," she told me. Because she's blonde and in her 20s and goes to the beach, she's been given the treatment. "I've been followed on numerous occasions. It's just constant harassment. The word "slut" gets used all the time."

It has been routine from a sub-group who regard non-Muslim women in skimpy clothing as provocateurs and fair game. I have page after page of testimony from witnesses - mothers, teachers and girls - about this phenomenon in Cronulla.

The same teacher is also certain that the spark that lit the Cronulla riot on December 11 was not the one broadcast around the world the next day. "People just didn't decide to bash someone who looked Lebanese. It all started when this guy outside Northies shouted, 'I'm going to blow youse all up.' That's what started the pack attacking him. It wasn't racial hatred. After September 11, people are much more sensitive about that kind of threat."

irishh_bob · 12-02-2012 3:56pm

Father Damo wrote: »

You wouldnt say there is justification for prejudicial treatment against travellers?

Have you ever actually met any?

Would you trust them? Of course you wouldnt.

travellers are bit like guards , the only people who think thier a great bunch of lads are those who never had any dealings with them

hussey · 12-02-2012 11:36pm

Jazlyn Late Vocation wrote: »

.....

This implies that Islam was an underlying factor rather than the dominate factor you have suggested.
*************
Mod
This thread is now the 2nd highest reply rate on the Australia/NZ forum !

So the OP asks any bad points about Australia and we eventually get to Irish travellers, home and away & Cronulla riots, go figure.
This has been a mostly civil thread, despite the touchy nature of a few points, cheers guys

If you do have a problem with any posts, please use the

report post button rather than complaining on thread.

mandrake04 · 13-02-2012 12:00am

hussey wrote: »

This implies that Islam was an underlying factor rather than the dominate factor you have suggested.
*************
Mod
This thread is now the 2nd highest reply rate on the Australia/NZ forum !

So the OP asks any bad points about Australia and we eventually get to Irish travellers, home and away & Cronulla riots, go figure.
This has been a mostly civil thread, despite the touchy nature of a few points, cheers guys

In fairness those could be considered bad points. :rolleyes:

mandrake04 · 13-02-2012 12:28am

irishh_bob wrote: »

embarrasing for you perhaps , most irish people have enough sense to know that travellers in ireland are thier own worst enemy and in truth are treated with kid gloves , especially by our liberal pc media

irishh_bob wrote: »

be carefull not to fall off that very high horse while your rightfully :rolleyes: and piously lecturing us about our shortcomings when it comes to those deeply misunderstood ethnics :rolleyes: who go around doing tarmac and paintjobs for half price

irishh_bob wrote: »

travellers are bit like guards , the only people who think thier a great bunch of lads are those who never had any dealings with them

To be honest I am no Traveller lover and have no intention to be, but to say that there has been no Ethnic (which is classed by the UN as Racial) discrimination in Ireland is a bit idiotic as everyone knows the story there.

I was just using the point because when people like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory are very quick to pull out the old all (or most) Aussies are racist argument...... they are sort of shooting themselves in the foot.

Maybe 10 years ago I would have have agreed with them, but now I am a bit more world wise to look back and say sure us Irish are no better in that respects. I was just using the Travellers as a pretty good example because any Irish person could relate to it.

Its an excellent case of Glass houses & stones.

I accept and agree that sometimes Travellers are their own worst enemy, but really who here would agree that Racism is justified on one group and not another.

Irish_bob I have seen plenty of posts your post on Travellers before, and really they go along the same line as Father Damo. Fair enough you don't like Travellers because they do dodgy paint jobs and tarmacing.

But if that's the justification then its likely you would you also say that Racial discrimination against Nigerians/Africans is justified because some have been involved in the old email scams?

Or is that different?

sudzs · 13-02-2012 12:53am

Xavi6 wrote: »

I disagree completely. The only thing I find quite expensive in Perth is the beer on a night out but you don't *have* to drink it.

Everything else is nicely relative to the good wages that can be obtained without going near a mine.

When I got here first I was aghast at the cost of things! But after a while you realise that it is relative to your income. Once you stop doing the direct currency conversion then it doesn't seem so bad!

Still good to shop around though! And I do think clothes are way more expensive here. Stock up on Penny's undies before you leave!!

The Aussie · 13-02-2012 1:28am

mandrake04 wrote: »

people like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory are very quick to pull out the old all (or most) Aussies are racist argument......

People like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory obviously don't have many/any foreign friends in Ireland (might claim they do but...) because if they did they would hear the same stories from their "friends" I do, I actually talk to forigners in Ireland, you should try it sometime, it might open your mind a wee bit.

Pisco Sour · 13-02-2012 3:33am

More of a pet peeve than anything else, but what is the deal with Aussies not filling things up to the top? Pints, coke in McDonalds, and worst of all, and something I have not seen in any of the other 26 countries I have been to, is the fact that in McDonalds in Australia they don't fill the chips up to the top. They generally fill it up about 80%, so if you order large you are effectively getting a medium fries. This has happened on so many occasions that it has gotten to the stage where I just go back to them and ask them to fill it up to the top.

Yes I have sampled McDonalds in all those countries

hussey · 13-02-2012 3:37am

The Aussie wrote: »

People like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory obviously don't have many/any foreign friends in Ireland (might claim they do but...) because if they did they would hear the same stories from their "friends" I do, I actually talk to forigners in Ireland, you should try it sometime, it might open your mind a wee bit.

Mod I can see through this thinly veiled insult - Please don't assume you know users & their friends. Cut this nonsense out please

jackbhoy · 13-02-2012 3:49am

mandrake04 wrote:

To be honest I am no Traveller lover and have no intention to be, but to say that there has been no Ethnic (which is classed by the UN as Racial) discrimination in Ireland is a bit idiotic as everyone knows the story there.

I was just using the point because when people like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory are very quick to pull out the old all (or most) Aussies are racist argument...... they are sort of shooting themselves in the foot.

Maybe 10 years ago I would have have agreed with them, but now I am a bit more world wise to look back and say sure us Irish are no better in that respects. I was just using the Travellers as a pretty good example because any Irish person could relate to it.

Its an excellent case of Glass houses & stones.

I agree with your general point mandrake, I've seen lots of racism at home and plenty here in Oz too, also a lot of slagging and piss taking with terms like "wog" thrown around here which some people take as racist but where there is no real malice involved.

The one thing I would say is I think it's fair enough for people to say they have encountered racism here and to hightlight that as one of the negatives of Aus (given the thread topic) without this being dismissed as "sure theres racism everywhere". It's like saying the buses in sydney are crap but being dismissed because Dublin bus is worse. It's not really relevant as racism or sh1te public transport is still a negative in it's own right, regardless of what it's like at home.

Btw, I just used Sydney buses as example, I've no idea how good/bad they are...

mandrake04 · 13-02-2012 3:59am

jackbhoy wrote: »

I agree with your general point mandrake, I've seen lots of racism at home and plenty here in Oz too, also a lot of slagging and piss taking with terms like "wog" thrown around here which some people take as racist but where there is no real malice involved.

The one thing I would say is I think it's fair enough for people to say they have encountered racism here and to hightlight that as one of the negatives of Aus (given the thread topic) without this being dismissed as "sure theres racism everywhere". It's like saying the buses in sydney are crap but being dismissed because Dublin bus is worse. It's not really relevant as racism or sh1te public transport is still a negative in it's own right, regardless of what it's like at home.

Btw, I just used Sydney buses as example, I've no idea how good/bad they are...

In fairness if I was a member of an Australian forum and Aussies started bagging Irish I would soon tell them pull their neck in as well.

markymark21 · 13-02-2012 6:32am

This thread has been a good read... but some of you guys get waaay to upset over something some random stranger says about/to you over the Internet

CatchLight · 13-02-2012 7:15am

I don't really know why I was singled out here at all. I said I experienced racism in Australia. I worked with mostly Indian and Afghan people who told me the stories. I also was friends with plenty of Slovaks at home in Ireland.

I never said most or all Aussies are racist. In fact a lot of Australians I have met have been lovely people. The thread title was 'Anything bad to say about Australia' after all. I'd be happy to list all the great things about Australia in another thread.

Quoting: I was just using the point because when people like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory are very quick to pull out the old all (or most) Aussies are racist argument...... they are sort of shooting themselves in the foot.

Also: People like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory obviously don't have many/any foreign friends in Ireland (might claim they do but...)

hussey · 13-02-2012 7:23am

CatchLight wrote: »

I don't really know why I was singled out here at all. ......

Mod I have warned the user about that - let's move on please

Father Damo · 13-02-2012 8:40am

mandrake04 wrote: »

To be honest I am no Traveller lover and have no intention to be, but to say that there has been no Ethnic (which is classed by the UN as Racial) discrimination in Ireland is a bit idiotic as everyone knows the story there.

I was just using the point because when people like Joaneire, Catchlight & Puzzlefactory are very quick to pull out the old all (or most) Aussies are racist argument...... they are sort of shooting themselves in the foot.

But the point is that most people see many Aussies as having racist views for no other reason than the person is non Australian, dark skinned or has a different accent. We dont like travellers because most of them are work shy and a massive amount are involved in some of the lowest dirt level types of crime imagineable (regularly targeting the elderly, for example)

I accept and agree that sometimes Travellers are their own worst enemy, but really who here would agree that Racism is justified on one group and not another.

Because statistically speaking travellers deserve their reputation for being work shy education dodging criminals. Indians or Chinese in Australia dont really.

Irish_bob I have seen plenty of posts your post on Travellers before, and really they go along the same line as Father Damo. Fair enough you don't like Travellers because they do dodgy paint jobs and tarmacing.

But if that's the justification then its likely you would you also say that Racial discrimination against Nigerians/Africans is justified because some have been involved in the old email scams?

Or is that different?

Well, of 100 million plus Nigerians in the world not one of them has managed to send me a dodgy email in 12 years online for me. I nearly feel left out :pac:

Wish I could say I had never had a negative interaction with any of our much smaller traveller community but like everyone in Ireland, of course I have. Even a few Aussies have had run ins with them over here.

Father Damo · 13-02-2012 8:43am

04072511 wrote: »

More of a pet peeve than anything else, but what is the deal with Aussies not filling things up to the top? Pints, coke in McDonalds, and worst of all, and something I have not seen in any of the other 26 countries I have been to, is the fact that in McDonalds in Australia they don't fill the chips up to the top. They generally fill it up about 80%, so if you order large you are effectively getting a medium fries. This has happened on so many occasions that it has gotten to the stage where I just go back to them and ask them to fill it up to the top.

Yes I have sampled McDonalds in all those countries

Too fcuking right. Aussie American chain takeaways (McDonalds, KFC, BK/ Jacks) never put on enough sauce unless you ask, and McDonalds have the cheek to charge you an extra 50 odd cent for what should be stanbdard on it!

And the chicken fillet burgers in KFC are child size compared to home.

And the mayo is a bit sh1te.

God I could go on :pac: Dominos seem to have improved from the utter rubbish they used to be here, though they are still nothing like home (alot cheaper mind)

sudzs · 13-02-2012 8:54am

Father Damo wrote: »

And the mayo is a bit sh1te.

What is it with the mayo??? Not only does it seem to be a major hassle when you ask for some (to go with the chips or whatever) but 9 times out of 10 some awful gunk is brought out to the table. There have been times when I haven't touched it as it resembles something that must have got lost on the way to the sperm bank!! *shudder*

Anything bad to say about Austraila ?

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