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Advantages/ Disadvantages of Joining The Reserves before Full Time AGS

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    #182
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Hang on for one second, Apply if that is all that is stopping you.

    It states: You can't be the owner of the licensed premises/license-holder but working in the bar/hotel in general is okay once you are not the license holder :)

    I kept reading your posts and thinking something is not right there. If that's all that was holding you back, then apply.

    also: you can't be a bouncer/security-guard either. You said you worked in a bar so that's why I didn't include it above. That's another no-no! :)


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    #183
    thelongwait
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭thelongwait


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Hang on for one second, Apply if that is all that is stopping you.

    It states: You can't be the owner of the licensed premises/license-holder but working in the bar/hotel in general is okay once you are not the license holder :)

    I kept reading your posts and thinking something is not right there. If that's all that was holding you back, then apply.

    I did, i was refused. Two of my mates applied and were refused too! reason being we worked in a pub!

    Maybe its to do with this condition
    Is employed in any occupation or holds any appointment or position which, in the opinion of the Garda Commissioner, may cause a conflict of interest with the proper discharge of the duties of a reserve member.
    Taken from Here
    If you do know any bar staff in the reserves please do let me know. Id apply again and see what happens.


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    #184
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    thelongwait wrote: »
    I did, i was refused. Two of my mates applied and were refused too! reason being we worked in a pub!

    Maybe its to do with this condition

    Taken from Here
    If you do know any bar staff in the reserves please do let me know. Id apply again and see what happens.

    Yes as I stated above it says: "Holds a designated certificate, licence or permit i.e. Taxi/PSV License, License to sell intoxicating liquor". That's exactly what I said above to you, well in my own Kerry-way, but it's still legible.

    Phone HQ in the morning and come back to me. Are you saying you are a bar-man? Not the license holder? Was your name ever on a licensed premises? Were you ever a 'bouncer/security-guard?


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    #185
    Me again!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Me again!


    Galway Elvis wrote: »
    This thread has really shown how many on here know so little about how AGS works.

    When recruitment statrs again there are only two certanties.
    1. Being a Reserve Member of AGS with a proven track record and positive reports from all ranks will be of enormous benifit to your recruitmant prospects.

    2. Being a Reserve Member of AGS with no track record and any negative reportsfrom any rank will end your recruitment prospects without getting past the PAS.

    A proven track record will include, but not be limited to, turning up for duty on a regular basis, being trusted by Regular mules of all ranks and willing to get stuck in when the need arises without having to be told to do so.

    As of a year ago this famous panel of approximatly 160, with ALL stages of the recruitment process completed, included 36 Reserves.
    Does it matter how any of those 160 got on that panel?

    The decision to keep or scrap this panel will only be made by the Minister of the day in conjunction with the Commissioner when they need to do so.
    They are also the only people that can decide and dictate the criteria for recruitment into AGS.

    The Reserve Garda Rank within AGS is far from perfect but it still very young and is improving every day.

    I have yet to meet a Reserve Garda that DID NOT have ANY of the following; dependents, work commitments (if they are lucky), financial commitments, family, friends, a social life,......I could go on.

    It would be wise for some people on this forum to educate themselves with the facts about AGS and how it opperates before they ever use the excuse "i am too busy" and/or "i dont have the time" again.

    I find it strange that these same people seem to have plenty of time to rubbish the whole Reserve concept without having any experience or actual knowledge of how it works.

    Why are reserves so afraid of having to compete with the general public in a recruitment campaign?
    It's not all that difficult at all to get into the reserve, there is little training and very little power as reserves on this forum keeping banging on about. Don't be trying to sneek in the back door without having to meet the required standard. Fair play to the 36 reserves on the panal of 160 who are waiting as they are there on merit with the other 124. If your good enough you'll get inl. Just cause your a reserve dosent make you an authority on AGS and it's working. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!!!


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    #186
    gardapa
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭gardapa


    Me again! wrote: »
    Why are reserves so afraid of having to compete with the general public in a recruitment campaign?

    Its not about being afraid its about being frustrated because people in the reserves actual have an interest in the job and then there are 'the general public' who have little or no interest and are probably more than likely only looking into AGS because they have no other career opportunities.

    I see people in AGS who love their job and commit more hours than they should, they would give anything to the job. I also see 'the general public' in it who have no interest and do as little as possible. I know who the Irish citizens and myself would choose.

    You say you can't join because you work long hours well who doesn't. So good luck coming off better explaining that in your interview. Also if you are busy busy how do you find the time to come on here? People on here are giving you advice you obviously don't appreciate it.

    Anyway a good way at looking at it is, if there are more people like you going to apply there will be less competition.


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    #187
    gardapa
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭gardapa


    thelongwait wrote: »
    I did, i was refused. Two of my mates applied and were refused too! reason being we worked in a pub!

    Maybe its to do with this condition

    Taken from Here
    If you do know any bar staff in the reserves please do let me know. Id apply again and see what happens.

    I know of a guy in limerick who runs his family owned business...Maybe he only took over after he applied... I'll find out.


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    #188
    Galway Elvis
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭Galway Elvis


    Me again! wrote: »
    Why are reserves so afraid of having to compete with the general public in a recruitment campaign?
    They are not afraid. How did you come to this conclusion?
    Me again! wrote: »
    It's not all that difficult at all to get into the reserve, there is little training and very little power
    Again, what are you basing your statement on?
    Me again! wrote: »
    Don't be trying to sneek in the back door without having to meet the required standard.
    The standards required is not the issue here. They remain the same for everyone that applys. No one is trying to sneek in any door.
    Me again! wrote: »
    Fair play to the 36 reserves on the panal of 160 who are waiting as they are there on merit with the other 124. If your good enough you'll get inl.
    Exactly. This thread is about the potential advantadges/disadvantages of being a Reserve when applying to become a Regular member of AGS. Not how to avoid standards that apply to everyone.
    Me again! wrote: »
    Just cause your a reserve dosent make you an authority on AGS and it's working.
    I have never made any claim to be an authority on AGS. I have only claimed that the bit I do know is based on first hand experience.
    Me again! wrote: »
    A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!!!
    There in nothing dangerous about knowledge or the pursuit of same. It is the total lack of knowledge that is dangerous.


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    #189
    Me again!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 72 ✭✭Me again!


    gardapa wrote: »
    Me again! wrote: »
    Why are reserves so afraid of having to compete with the general public in a recruitment campaign?

    Its not about being afraid its about being frustrated because people in the reserves actual have an interest in the job and then there are 'the general public' who have little or no interest and are probably more than likely only looking into AGS because they have no other career opportunities.

    I see people in AGS who love their job and commit more hours than they should, they would give anything to the job. I also see 'the general public' in it who have no interest and do as little as possible. I know who the Irish citizens and myself would choose.

    You say you can't join because you work long hours well who doesn't. So good luck coming off better explaining that in your interview. Also if you are busy busy how do you find the time to come on here? People on here are giving you advice you obviously don't appreciate it.

    Anyway a good way at looking at it is, if there are more people like you going to apply there will be less competition.

    Where do you think gardai were recuited from in the past? The general public. I find you post insulting to any applicant who is not a reserve and serving members who were recruited from the general public. I think some reserves have clearly lost the run of themselves and feel its their god given right to join full time and want to block others now in case they will be passed out in the recruitment campaign. Just because someone didnt join the reserve does not mean they cannot be an excellent member of Ags and likewise just because you are a reserve does not mean you will automatically meet thr requirement of a full time member when real powers and responsibilites come into play. Anyway I am busy and will leave it at that. Time will tell.


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    #190
    gardapa
    Registered Users Posts: 101 ✭✭gardapa


    Me again! wrote: »
    gardapa wrote: »

    Where do you think gardai were recuited from in the past? The general public. I find you post insulting to any applicant who is not a reserve and serving members who were recruited from the general public. I think some reserves have early lost the run of themselves and want to block others now in case they will be passed out in the recruitment campaign. Anyway I am busy and will leave it at that. Time will tell.


    Yes the past!! Times have changed..in the past they were taking on so many guards you could have had two heads and you would get in but now it won't be so easy with high numbers applying for very little places.

    You feel insulted by that well Im sorry but all I was just saying what I thought. When I read your reply about why you couldn't join the reserves I thought that was a poor excuse and I think a few others on here did too. Anyway like you said time will tell.

    When I first joined boards when I was 17 I took all advice whether I agreed with it or not because I was getting real info from people who are applicants and in the job...who was I to disagree with them?? I don't think you are on here to get information which is why I will not be communicating with you anymore.


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    #191
    thelongwait
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭thelongwait


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Yes as I stated above it says: "Holds a designated certificate, licence or permit i.e. Taxi/PSV License, License to sell intoxicating liquor". That's exactly what I said above to you, well in my own Kerry-way, but it's still legible.

    Phone HQ in the morning and come back to me. Are you saying you are a bar-man? Not the license holder? Was your name ever on a licensed premises? Were you ever a 'bouncer/security-guard?

    "For reward or personal gain, manages or conducts, or assists in the management or conducting of, a concern or premises which is required by law to be operated under a licence, permit or certificate, the grant of which may be opposed by An Garda Síochána"

    I must have missed that one last night. A pub operates under a licence which can be objected to ags.


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    #192
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    thelongwait wrote: »
    "For reward or personal gain, manages or conducts, or assists in the management or conducting of, a concern or premises which is required by law to be operated under a licence, permit or certificate, the grant of which may be opposed by An Garda Síochána"

    I must have missed that one last night. A pub operates under a licence which can be objected to ags.

    How far in to the process did you get?


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    #193
    thelongwait
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭thelongwait


    Passed interview and then heard nothing for ages, so i rang HQ about 20 times before someone finally said it was to do with the bar work. and that's literally all that was said- "its to do with the bar work". Never got anything in writing. neither did either of my friends. they were both told similar to what i was.

    its really annoying because at the interview i was talking about my experiences in bar work and they asked me questions about it and never said anything. I can only assume that they pulled my application at the background check stage.


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    #194
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    thelongwait wrote: »
    Passed interview and then heard nothing for ages, so i rang HQ about 20 times before someone finally said it was to do with the bar work. and that's literally all that was said- "its to do with the bar work". Never got anything in writing. neither did either of my friends. they were both told similar to what i was.

    its really annoying because at the interview i was talking about my experiences in bar work and they asked me questions about it and never said anything. I can only assume that they pulled my application at the background check stage.

    I won’t comment on your individual case as tbh I would trust what HQ return with but their was obviously something.

    What you should do however, is contact; explain the situation and try put your mind at ease while waiting for full-time. When that comes around would you be eligible to apply or would whatever stopped your chance at Reserves hinder your opportunity for full-time also. Try and get yourself some answers from those who have the information on your individual case.

    I thought, if unsuccessful you would receive a letter, it wouldn’t go into specifics, it would a standardised version of a Dear John but a letter stating you’d have been unsuccessful none-the-less.

    Was this recent?


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    #195
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    Were you ever a 'bouncer/security-guard?

    i wouldn't say it would matter if you were "ever" a bouncer/security guard, but you would have to give it up the same as if you worked in a pub in order to join.


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    #196
    kerry4sam
    Registered Users Posts: 15,127 ✭✭✭✭kerry4sam


    thekopend wrote: »
    i wouldn't say it would matter if you were "ever" a bouncer/security guard, but you would have to give it up the same as if you worked in a pub in order to join.

    It might be an issue for some though, if their was ever an incident of note on their file from working as a bouncer/security-guard. Just a thought.


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    #197
    thelongwait
    Closed Accounts Posts: 145 ✭✭thelongwait


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    I won’t comment on your individual case as tbh I would trust what HQ return with but their was obviously something.

    What you should do however, is contact; explain the situation and try put your mind at ease while waiting for full-time. When that comes around would you be eligible to apply or would whatever stopped your chance at Reserves hinder your opportunity for full-time also. Try and get yourself some answers from those who have the information on your individual case.

    I thought, if unsuccessful you would receive a letter, it wouldn’t go into specifics, it would a standardised version of a Dear John but a letter stating you’d have been unsuccessful none-the-less.

    Was this recent?

    Not recent, about 2/3 years ago. It didn't hinder my chances for full time yet as I'm on the panel with all stages complete.
    I will take your advice tho, and ring and try to find out something. Maybe apply again. What's the worst that could happen- they say no-again!


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    #198
    Dan1994
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Dan1994


    Galway Elvis wrote: »
    This thread has really shown how many on here know so little about how AGS works.

    When recruitment statrs again there are only two certanties.
    1. Being a Reserve Member of AGS with a proven track record and positive reports from all ranks will be of enormous benifit to your recruitmant prospects.

    2. Being a Reserve Member of AGS with no track record and any negative reportsfrom any rank will end your recruitment prospects without getting past the PAS.

    A proven track record will include, but not be limited to, turning up for duty on a regular basis, being trusted by Regular mules of all ranks and willing to get stuck in when the need arises without having to be told to do so.

    As of a year ago this famous panel of approximatly 160, with ALL stages of the recruitment process completed, included 36 Reserves.
    Does it matter how any of those 160 got on that panel?

    The decision to keep or scrap this panel will only be made by the Minister of the day in conjunction with the Commissioner when they need to do so.
    They are also the only people that can decide and dictate the criteria for recruitment into AGS.

    The Reserve Garda Rank within AGS is far from perfect but it still very young and is improving every day.

    I have yet to meet a Reserve Garda that DID NOT have ANY of the following; dependents, work commitments (if they are lucky), financial commitments, family, friends, a social life,......I could go on.

    It would be wise for some people on this forum to educate themselves with the facts about AGS and how it opperates before they ever use the excuse "i am too busy" and/or "i dont have the time" again.

    I find it strange that these same people seem to have plenty of time to rubbish the whole Reserve concept without having any experience or actual knowledge of how it works.

    Well said


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    #199
    Dan1994
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Dan1994


    Me again! wrote: »
    Why are reserves so afraid of having to compete with the general public in a recruitment campaign?
    It's not all that difficult at all to get into the reserve, there is little training and very little power as reserves on this forum keeping banging on about. Don't be trying to sneek in the back door without having to meet the required standard. Fair play to the 36 reserves on the panal of 160 who are waiting as they are there on merit with the other 124. If your good enough you'll get inl. Just cause your a reserve dosent make you an authority on AGS and it's working. A little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing!!!



    They are probably afraid of having to compete against highly qualified people like you.


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    #200
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    kerry4sam wrote: »
    It might be an issue for some though, if their was ever an incident of note on their file from working as a bouncer/security-guard. Just a thought.

    ya thats true, lucky for me the place i work is really quiet mostly older people dancing to country music, but there is always the few. another bonus is that the garda station is literally next door, side by side on main st, so any trouble they are usually right beside us talking or inside having a cuppa. its very strategic, they tend to stay around when you give them tea :D


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    #201
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    Just incase anyone was worrying about the current review of the Garda Síochána (Admission & Appointments) Regulations 1988 - 2005.

    Any changes to the current structure will not affect the current panel. As we have already been through the admissions process.
    This will only be enforced (if approved) for new recruitment campaigns.

    Although it will always be good to be a strong swimmer and a good first aider these will 100% not apply to us.

    Not much news but at least its something less to worry about. Just keep the heads down and get rid of that Christmas belly.

    Means diddly squat at the present time, and prob for the next few years, personally i can see the intakes coming from the Reserve pool, saves them time, uniform, and they can do in-house training as well so will also save them money on having the collage opened, times are hard and money scarce, so sacrifices will have to be made while saving money that's my opinion.


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    #202
    P.C.Plod
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭P.C.Plod


    You're dillusional. No recruitment will come from the reserves unless those reserves are already on the panel. No money will be saved if anything it will cost money as there are strict rules and regulations for public recruitment.
    Competitions will have to be re-run and recruitment and training for the reserves will be needed to replace all those that left.
    Your living in dream land if you think you'll walk straight into AGS full time because your a reserve.


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    #203
    C-J
    Closed Accounts Posts: 934 ✭✭✭C-J


    Oh god more reserve talk in the wrong place! And I have to disagree about swimming cert, first aid talk etc not being relevant to the panel. The government are capable of ANYTHING at the moment, and if its a case that the requirements are changed last minute to include full drivers license, swimming qualifications etc then I think that this is VERY relevant to the panel. We haven't waited this long to be suddenly turned away, and although the likelihood of these being introduced for us are minute I still think that panel members should consider ticking as many boxes as possible


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    #204
    kojack
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭kojack


    My opinion is that if intakes were to come from the reserves as suggested it would make a mockery of the public service recruitment procedure. This type of recruitment has served AGS rather succesfully over the years, and I can only wonder on the number of current serving members who had to go through this recruitment campaign. However, in the future, I can see serving reserves being exempt maybe from the interview section of the process.

    Also, I think that if in-house training were to occur it would cost more in the long run. For example you may have 4 recruits being based in a station in say Cork having to be trained and another 4 in Dublin training and this would be ongoing throughout the country. The cost would spiral out of control as I don't believe members would be willing to train recruits for free while also going about their own business.

    Thats just my opinion, so please don't go attacking me for it.


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    #205
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    You're dillusional. No recruitment will come from the reserves unless those reserves are already on the panel. No money will be saved if anything it will cost money as there are strict rules and regulations for public recruitment.
    Competitions will have to be re-run and recruitment and training for the reserves will be needed to replace all those that left.
    Your living in dream land if you think you'll walk straight into AGS full time because your a reserve.

    And you know this for fact do you?, who said anything about walking straight in, not in my post, what i did say is that i can see them been recruited from the reserve pool nothing about not having to do extra training etc, at the present time there are just over 1000 reserves, and more in training, so there is actually nothing to stop an intake of 100 at a time is there, as they are still recruiting reserves.
    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    Fully agree about the reserve talk, should not have responded but the nonsense that people bring up here when they want to believe so much that their thoughts are facts is getting boring.

    So condescending that comment suppose what else could anyone expect, i can just imagine what way you would be towards a reserve member, if you ever get in, if this is the sort of reply you give here, god help them.

    Unlike most people on here I am not presuming. I am telling you 100% that any changes made to the recruitment process will not apply to the current panel.
    The panel has been put through the public jobs recruitment process and is now finished with public jobs. All changes will be made at application level for the obvious reason that you cant apply unless you have the minimal requirements. We are at the latter end of recruitment and have completed this process. I assure you that the goalposts will not be moved.
    This is from a friend in the Dept of Justice Garda office. Also no talks have taken place nor has it even been mentioned to scrap the panel.

    So now you and the person in the Justice dept can see into the future as well, can i have next week's lotto numbers?.

    Nobody knows what is happening from day to day, ever day is different, nobody seen the closures of the Garda Stations did they?, goalposts can be moved at any time, and i doubt your friend, you or anyone else would have any say in the matter, so until you are actually in the door dont count your chickens as they say


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    #206
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    kojack wrote: »
    My opinion is that if intakes were to come from the reserves as suggested it would make a mockery of the public service recruitment procedure. This type of recruitment has served AGS rather succesfully over the years, and I can only wonder on the number of current serving members who had to go through this recruitment campaign. However, in the future, I can see serving reserves being exempt maybe from the interview section of the process.

    Also, I think that if in-house training were to occur it would cost more in the long run. For example you may have 4 recruits being based in a station in say Cork having to be trained and another 4 in Dublin training and this would be ongoing throughout the country. The cost would spiral out of control as I don't believe members would be willing to train recruits for free while also going about their own business.

    Thats just my opinion, so please don't go attacking me for it.

    Most areas have training sgt based in them so would not be a major problem, i know lots of people that have attended cpd sessions at their stations, so no biggie, who said anything about free, this could be done during normal working hours.


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    #207
    ghost86
    Registered Users Posts: 50 ✭✭ghost86


    C-J wrote: »
    Oh god more reserve talk in the wrong place! And I have to disagree about swimming cert, first aid talk etc not being relevant to the panel. The government are capable of ANYTHING at the moment, and if its a case that the requirements are changed last minute to include full drivers license, swimming qualifications etc then I think that this is VERY relevant to the panel. We haven't waited this long to be suddenly turned away, and although the likelihood of these being introduced for us are minute I still think that panel members should consider ticking as many boxes as possible

    You are right CJ. The government are capable of anything. I am not on the panel but if I was then I would have joined the reserves while waiting since 2008 in order to, as you put it, tick every box possible.
    Thus, I do not understand why the people on the panel who are going into their fourth year of waiting have not joined the reserves. Surely if the panel were called to join tomorrow then would their not be questions asked as to why they did not join the reserves?


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    #208
    kojack
    Registered Users Posts: 292 ✭✭kojack


    ghost86 wrote: »
    You are right CJ. The government are capable of anything. I am not on the panel but if I was then I would have joined the reserves while waiting since 2008 in order to, as you put it, tick every box possible.
    Thus, I do not understand why the people on the panel who are going into their fourth year of waiting have not joined the reserves. Surely if the panel were called to join tomorrow then would their not be questions asked as to why they did not join the reserves?

    There are certain restrictions to joining the reserves that do not apply to joining full time. I myself would not have been allowed join the reserves because of the nature of the business I was involved in, but during my interviews for the full time campaign they were extremely interested in what I was doing, and it was all that was talked about during my competency interview.


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    #209
    ZoneAlarm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭ZoneAlarm


    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    As I stated before I should not have responded to Zonealarm, clearly he/she is offended at the thoughts of someone getting recruited before him/her.
    I have nothing but respect for the reserves that volunteer there spare time to helping the gardai, those that joined for the real reason and not disillusioned ones.

    Last thread was ruined by people jealous of the panel so lets not let them ruin this one.

    My apologise to all for reacting.

    I also never said i wanted to go full time did i ? also who is to say if i was on the panel or not, if you where that interested in joining full time, why did yourself and others on the panel not join the reserve force, that way you would have got a look on the inside to see if this is really what you want to do, lots of joined the full time only to discover on a Friday or Saturday night, when a fight breaks out and you are stuck in the middle of it, or worse people spitting blood in your face, getting needle stuck, stabbed, look at the Garda that had a pot of boiling oil poured over him you then discover that this was not for you.

    That way you wont be wasting your time and the governments money training you for it then to leave, personally the reserves is the way to go first, then you can decide if its for you or not, i am no way jealous of anyone getting into the full time force, best of luck to anyone that does, just hope its what you want to do.

    As for making assumptions on who will get in first, nobody can say for sure what the government will do, they change their minds at the tip of a hat, only they know what is going on and even then do they really !!


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    #210
    Canyon86
    Registered Users Posts: 1,223 ✭✭✭Canyon86


    I d like to add that it is not just as easy as 'joining the reserves' like some people are making it out to be..


    I applied for the reserves back in 2009 and i havent heard a single thing back from public jobs..

    I am from Cork myself and applied for this region

    If im asked why didnt i join the reserves in an interview i will have an answer ready!!

    :0


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    #211
    WilcoOut
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭WilcoOut


    Canyon86 wrote: »
    I d like to add that it is not just as easy as 'joining the reserves' like some people are making it out to be..


    I applied for the reserves back in 2009 and i havent heard a single thing back from public jobs..

    I am from Cork myself and applied for this region

    If im asked why didnt i join the reserves in an interview i will have an answer ready!!

    :0

    the answer is in your post.......


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