How do Dublin bus justify a 30 cent increase on a fare

Dodge

Baron de Robeck wrote: »

As for walking rather than getting the bus you are missing my point, all it takes is a little effort to equip ones self with the appropriate commuter ticket or Leap card. Those who can't be bothered to put in a little effort to do this is in my books down to general laziness, they would rather pay more than actually get themselves organised.

I didn't argue agaisnt that.

Buying a sandwich and getting one made is a different product, and priced accordingly.

Going from A to B on Dublin Bus and paying a higher price than is neccessary is, of course, the same product...

And as I said earlier, for SOME customers, the cash fares work out best. If you only take 2/3 buses a year, then the cash fare is your best option. Bulk buying travel 90s is useless, and paying for a leap card doesn't make sense.

Of course, the majority of people who complain about bus prices are regular users, so they have little comeback there...

claire983

frag420 wrote: »

Out of pure curiousity and I am not condoning such asction but what is there to stop me saying 1.65 or similar for a 2.30 journey? I have never ever seen an inspector get on the bus and check the reciepts or ask where anyone boarded the bus?

My usual morning treck has gone up from 2.30 to 2.65. If tomorrow morning I say 1.90 or 2.15 would there be anyone there to challenge me? I know it would be a dick-ish thing to do but again people are strapped for cash in a recession so it would not surprise me if people do this.

Just wondering.....

frAg

I'v known drivers to ask ppl to leave because they did not pay the correct fare, its not just inspectors.

frag420

mikemac1 wrote: »

Wasn't scamming, I just didn't work out the stages and wasn't familiar with the area

Thanks for that, il use that if I get caught ha ha :cool:

RichieD

All the more reason to stuff the change machine with all 5's and 10's so they have no clue how much you put in.

LXFlyer

RichieD wrote: »

All the more reason to stuff the change machine with all 5's and 10's so they have no clue how much you put in.

Or you could be honest like the vast majority of people out there.

Niles

I was initially surprised to see the fares rise so significantly, but thinking about it I'd agree that it's a good way to get people to use the Leap Card - I only use DB once a week but I'll easily earn back the €5 the card costs over the course of a few months. Once you have such a card the increases aren't that bad, for instance the €1.65 fare going up to €1.70 is quite reasonable really.

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the cost of cycling hasn't

Gotta love the 'oul bike, no road tax, no fuel cost, if only the weather protection was a bit better it would be perfect!

D'Peoples Voice

Is there a Smartphone app that i can download
that will quickly tell me how many stages i will be travelling, so i know what to pay when i get on the bus!

For example, my journey on a wet day (i cycle on dry days) is from Morehampton Road Junction Bloomfield Avenue, Stop 777, and to Fleet Street Junction Westmoreland Street Stop 5192.
Now, when at home the previous night, i can go to http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Route-Planner/Route-Planner-Map/?planchoice=0 and count those little blue pin heads that indicate bus stops, but if I'm at the bus stop, and decide I want to stay on for another few stops, is there a quick way of working it out.(yeah i know, you're thinking its not rocket science to memorise the number of stages in my usual journey and then add on the additional stops, but if I don't know the number of stops between Westmoreland Street and Parnell Street because i'm not used to that part of the journey, how do i know how many stages between Morehampton Road Junction Bloomfield Avenue and Parnell Street? Would everyone ask the driver? I would think that i would check the timetable at the bus stop but not every bus stop has a timetable(or at least not one readable after it was vandalised).

Its difficult enough trying to work out the correct City Centre Fare!
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre/

City Centre Fare
To mark the introduction of the College Green Bus Corridor from the 27th of July, Dublin Bus will offer a new 50c City Centre Fare. This fare will apply all day, 7 days a week on all routes* within a special City Centre Zone as indicated on the diagram below.

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/

City Centre Fare
To mark the introduction of the College Green Bus Corridor from the 27th of July, Dublin Bus will offer a new 60c City Centre Fare. This fare will apply all day, 7 days a week on all routes* within a special City Centre Zone.

AlekSmart

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

Is there a Smartphone app that i can download
that will quickly tell me how many stages i will be travelling, so i know what to pay when i get on the bus!

For example, my journey on a wet day (i cycle on dry days) is from Morehampton Road Junction Bloomfield Avenue, Stop 777, and to Fleet Street Junction Westmoreland Street Stop 5192.
Now, when at home the previous night, i can go to http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Route-Planner/Route-Planner-Map/?planchoice=0 and count those little blue pin heads that indicate bus stops, but if I'm at the bus stop, and decide I want to stay on for another few stops, is there a quick way of working it out.(yeah i know, you're thinking its not rocket science to memorise the number of stages in my usual journey and then add on the additional stops, but if I don't know the number of stops between Westmoreland Street and Parnell Street because i'm not used to that part of the journey, how do i know how many stages between Morehampton Road Junction Bloomfield Avenue and Parnell Street? Would everyone ask the driver? I would think that i would check the timetable at the bus stop but not every bus stop has a timetable(or at least not one readable after it was vandalised).

Its difficult enough trying to work out the correct City Centre Fare!
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/City-Centre/


http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Fare-Information/

At this stage ( ) it's gettin beyond a joke.

I am blue and yellow in the face trying to find a manager with enough interest to address these two simple issues which together conspire to cause arguement and frustration for Busdrivers and Passengers alike (NB: No manager has ever been worried by these items)

At it's simplest,Dublin Bus has by a series of clever strategic omissions ensured that....
A) It's Drivers are often uncertain of the exact location of a stage (Note a stage is an EXACT point,that's why it's not called a ZONE)
It's customers are largely equally uncertain of the Fare Stage location relevant to their journey.

C).The same issues apply to the City Centre Fare ZONE....The company up to now fail to erect a "Start of City Centre Fare Zone" plate on the relevant Stop.

For example the CCF Zone begins on St Stephens Green NORTH ( Which lies between stage 73 and 74),however the Ticket Machine's had to be tweaked to allow a CCF to be issued from 73,which led Drivers to assume it was a valid fare from Stage 73 (Leeson St/Pembroke St) it's NOT.

Equally the CCF ends on Parnell Square WEST (Between Stage 75 and 76) but the Bus Shelter on Dorset St (Synnot Place) has TWO "End of City Fare Zone" Plates affixed to it...which allows many people to opportunistically make a journey from Pembroke St to Gardiner St (Now €1.90) for 50c...Is it any wonder the company is concerned about it's finances.....:rolleyes:

The exact same situation exists on the Rock Road corridor,where the CCF Zone begins at Clare Street (outside the shop formerly known as Greens Bookshop),however plates have been erroneously placed at stops on Mount Street,leading to Mount St to Mountjoy Square journeys (€1.90) being made for 60c....Incredible stuff !!

Easy,simple and rapid fix,which I would gladly do for FREE in my own time given the go-ahead...Reaffix Stage Markings to ALL relevant Stops and affix a "Start of City Fare Zone" Plate to the relevant stops....this would,at a stroke,solve the problems which D'Peoples Voice and D'People in general have to endure.....Instead we appear to be awaiting a report from an InterDepartmental Task-Force before risking any such mould breaking stuff !!!

V_Moth

AlekSmart wrote: »

At this stage ( ) it's gettin beyond a joke.

I am blue and yellow in the face trying to find a manager with enough interest to address these two simple issues which together conspire to cause arguement and frustration for Busdrivers and Passengers alike (NB: No manager has ever been worried by these items)

At it's simplest,Dublin Bus has by a series of clever strategic omissions ensured that....
A) It's Drivers are often uncertain of the exact location of a stage (Note a stage is an EXACT point,that's why it's not called a ZONE)
It's customers are largely equally uncertain of the Fare Stage location relevant to their journey.

C).The same issues apply to the City Centre Fare ZONE....The company up to now fail to erect a "Start of City Centre Fare Zone" plate on the relevant Stop.

For example the CCF Zone begins on St Stephens Green NORTH ( Which lies between stage 73 and 74),however the Ticket Machine's had to be tweaked to allow a CCF to be issued from 73,which led Drivers to assume it was a valid fare from Stage 73 (Leeson St/Pembroke St) it's NOT.

Equally the CCF ends on Parnell Square WEST (Between Stage 75 and 76) but the Bus Shelter on Dorset St (Synnot Place) has TWO "End of City Fare Zone" Plates affixed to it...which allows many people to opportunistically make a journey from Pembroke St to Gardiner St (Now €1.90) for 50c...Is it any wonder the company is concerned about it's finances.....:rolleyes:

The exact same situation exists on the Rock Road corridor,where the CCF Zone begins at Clare Street (outside the shop formerly known as Greens Bookshop),however plates have been erroneously placed at stops on Mount Street,leading to Mount St to Mountjoy Square journeys (€1.90) being made for 60c....Incredible stuff !!

Easy,simple and rapid fix,which I would gladly do for FREE in my own time given the go-ahead...Reaffix Stage Markings to ALL relevant Stops and affix a "Start of City Fare Zone" Plate to the relevant stops....this would,at a stroke,solve the problems which D'Peoples Voice and D'People in general have to endure.....Instead we appear to be awaiting a report from an InterDepartmental Task-Force before risking any such mould breaking stuff !!!

Wow. Talk about rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. I wish for once those responsible would start to think (Impossible I know in Ireland) about putting together a proper public transport system rather than announcing fare increases every year for a shiite service. IT IS NOT THAT DIFFICULT.

Merge Luas, Dart and Dublin Bus into one company, call it something like Dublin Transport or DubTrans. Put together a zonal ticketing system like every other developed country uses. Also get rid of Bus Eireann and use that money to fund a proper rail network combined with local authority run bus services (to local destinations).

AlekSmart

Seems as if we are'nt the only ones havin a bit of Public Transport jiggery-pokery either....from the Land of the Free n' Home of the Brave...

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/01/01/expiring-charliecards-causing-confusion-and-frustration/aCFuYJF2erbu5072enGKFI/story.html?s_campaign=8315

The Charlie Card...I love it......there's just gotta be an Irish-American story behind that....I mean we have our own one of those since the late 1960's

But I supose the best answer to this threads title can be found in the small reference to the expected rise in Boston's Fares....

State (Massachusetts) tunveils potential MBTA fare increases, service cuts

Under one scenario proposed by the state, fares would increase by 43 percent, while under another, they would increase by 35 percent.

So there ye have it......:eek:

Amirani

I've started a boycott, 100% cycling rather than my previous combination of cycling and bus. I've no problem with high cash fares to encourage use of the LEAP card but the system is a sham. The lack of a flat fare and the generally high fares render it rather useless.

dublinman1990

superscouse wrote: »

They are not justifying it.

The subsidies for Dublin Bus and being chopped and loss making routes are pulling them down.

They tried cutting and reducing routes with limited success so now the prices are going up. They wanted a lot more than 30c but they have no control over this. They were allowed a 30c increase.

They are now taking their instructions from the NTA.

The new leap card you mention is cheaper but its a carrot and stick approach, prices went up but you can minimise the increase by getting a leap card.

I got on DART ticket today in Blackrock going from there to Dun Laoghaire, and it cost me 20c cheaper to actually get on the 7 bus. The saving won't last that long because the DART/Commuter fares are going up tomorrow. However, their fares are only increasing by 10 cent, So, it is still cheaper to use the DART then the bus by paying CASH Fares.

I am still going to the leap card though beacuse I do not have the option to travel around on buses within 90 minutes using Travel 90's. The leap card is still attractive for me because I still can use the small savings on DART & Luas whenever I can get on them.

Carawaystick

AlekSmart wrote: »

At this stage ( ) it's gettin beyond a joke.


C).The same issues apply to the City Centre Fare ZONE....The company up to now fail to erect a "Start of City Centre Fare Zone" plate on the relevant Stop.

For example the CCF Zone begins on St Stephens Green NORTH ( Which lies between stage 73 and 74),however the Ticket Machine's had to be tweaked to allow a CCF to be issued from 73,which led Drivers to assume it was a valid fare from Stage 73 (Leeson St/Pembroke St) it's NOT.

Equally the CCF ends on Parnell Square WEST (Between Stage 75 and 76)!

I thought I'd heard it all,
Why oh why would the stage boundaries and "zone boundaries" not be aligned.

Regarding the fare increases, it might be asked why the newly disintegrated ticketing system has fare increases? is that to encourage use too??

the groutch

frag420 wrote: »

Out of pure curiousity and I am not condoning such asction but what is there to stop me saying 1.65 or similar for a 2.30 journey? I have never ever seen an inspector get on the bus and check the reciepts or ask where anyone boarded the bus?

My usual morning treck has gone up from 2.30 to 2.65. If tomorrow morning I say 1.90 or 2.15 would there be anyone there to challenge me? I know it would be a dick-ish thing to do but again people are strapped for cash in a recession so it would not surprise me if people do this.

Just wondering.....

frAg

there lies your problem, you're paying €2.30 cash per journey when you could be paying €1.90 per journey or €3.67 per day with the right prepaid ticket, without having to chance your arm and risk getting caught by inspectors.

antoinolachtnai

The reason for the fare increases is that

(1) customers are deserting Dublin Bus in droves - numbers are back at 2001, pre-boom levels

(2) Dublin Bus has extremely high operating costs per vehicle kilometer. The cost is at least double the typical rate in Scotland. It appears to be one of the highest operating costs (and perhaps the highest operating cost) per vehicle-kilometre in the world.

The removal of the diesel duty rebate happened years ago, in 2008.

Conor J

I wish Dublin bus would sort out a few things before they considered increasing the fares. They are a shambolic service, and now we source of our frustration has just got more expensive!

1. I get the 145 quite often, rarely would a single bus arrive. Instead we are greeted by 2x145's or even 3, plus a 45 or an 84. So split the buses up so that only one arrives at a bus stop at a given time. Have 5mins or so between each bus, so we don't miss 3 in a row then wait a half hour for the next!
2. Do almost all buses have to go in the direction of the city?
3. Can't we have a 3 day bus ticket? Some of us work shift and purchasing for 5 or 7 days just isn't suitable.
4. Why oh why are we constantly kicked off a bus and told to get on another?
5. Punctuality could definitely be improved.
6. Today the bus driver parked at a bus stop for 15mins 3/4 way through the journey as he had to wait for the next driver to arrive. His excuse: "with no school kids, we got here too early!" (could this not be anticipated in advance? Is this the first day the kids were not at school?...no)
7. Buses tear out of the traps, Every day i see old people thrown into their seats by reckless drivers. The city isn't a go kart track!
8. Is Dublin Bus prudent enough to purchase huge quantities of fuel cheaply in advance like Ryanair? or do they pay as they go? Do Dublin Bus buy the fuel? or CIE? CIE should bear this responsibility, as they could command lower prices.
9. Even though the buses rarely run on time, a huge number of timetables are out of date, often by a few years
10. How much money do they spend on replacing glass on bus shelters? I know its not their fault they are broken, that's the fault of stupid idiots. However, would it not be prudent to use a tough plastic partition instead?


So sort out the above, and i'd be satisfied to pay whats needed to keep the bus service operational. But right now, it's in many ways a farce!


#Rant over

Michael Collins

lxflyer wrote: »

Or you can get a Travel 90 10 Journey ticket for EUR 19 at any Dublin Bus ticket agent and pay EUR 1.90 per journey (including transfers started within 90 minutes of you boarding your first bus)...

Will the Travel 90 card not increase in price too, though? From memory, the Travel 90 card (and other cards) have increased in accordance with the cash fares, just lagging behind by a few months.

AngryLips wrote: »

It still amazes me the number of people who pay cash fares above the per-journey cost of a Travel90 ticket the whole time this ticket option has been available...

Well up until now it was not good value for a lot of people. I would have paid €1.85 into town on the old fares, the Travel 90 was €19 for ten journeys, i.e. €1.90 per journey* - that's actually 5c dearer than cash! A lot of people would have been on the €1.65 fare too...Dublin Bus were not encoraging migration from cash fares very much with that one exactly. (*Yes, if you got two buses within 90mins, go over 13 stages, or got an Xpresso bus etc. it would be cheaper, but I'd guess this is not most people - I am, of course, open to correction on this if anyone has the fare stats.)

AlekSmart wrote: »

...Easy,simple and rapid fix,which I would gladly do for FREE in my own time given the go-ahead...Reaffix Stage Markings to ALL relevant Stops and affix a "Start of City Fare Zone" Plate to the relevant stops....this would,at a stroke,solve the problems which D'Peoples Voice and D'People in general have to endure.....Instead we appear to be awaiting a report from an InterDepartmental Task-Force before risking any such mould breaking stuff !!!

I'd help you!

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

...
(2) Dublin Bus has extremely high operating costs per vehicle kilometer. The cost is at least double the typical rate in Scotland. It appears to be one of the highest operating costs (and perhaps the highest operating cost) per vehicle-kilometre in the world...

Any idea why this is?

nfs

2.65 a journey for me now, devastating

Michael Collins

D'Peoples Voice wrote: »

...Its difficult enough trying to work out the correct City Centre Fare!

Interestingly, if you use a Leap Card, the city Centre Fare remains at 50c, but it is 60c using cash. How does this work, and how do the other 'stages' work, considering you don't tag/touch-off?

From leapcard.ie...
When travelling on a bus, there is no requirement to Touch-Off.

It seems there's no way for the system to tell you've alighted the bus before the next chargeable stage? Or can you touch-off if you choose?

EDIT: Ah, you have to give the card to the driver! Then state where you're going...

samina

If the fare was cheaper wouldn't more people use the buses. For myself, the partner and the kids return to town it's 13 euro. And that a short run. We can park for 2 euro an hour

howiya

Reduce the quality of the service and then make it more expensive. Good to know the customer is king. Well done Dublin Bus....

And for those of you advocating LEAP cards and prepaid tickets, once the majority of people switch away from cash these will then be the main source of fare income for DB and these will increase in price whenever the company needs a dig out

noelfirl

nfs wrote: »

2.65 a journey for me now, devastating

Buy Travel 90s!

mikemac1

Conor J wrote: »

10. How much money do they spend on replacing glass on bus shelters? I know its not their fault they are broken, that's the fault of stupid idiots. However, would it not be prudent to use a tough plastic partition instead?

I was told that the advertising company pays for the bus stop and in return they get the right to sell the spaces for advertising

I'm happy to be corrected

Aard

samina wrote: »

If the fare was cheaper wouldn't more people use the buses. For myself, the partner and the kids return to town it's 13 euro. And that a short run. We can park for 2 euro an hour

Or you could buy a Family Rambler for €10.50

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Tickets/Family-Tickets/

dermo88

if I gave my opinions on C.I.E and Dublin Bus, I would be banned from this forum very quick. Consider the potential use of the following words "Cattleprods, Alsatians, Strike, Lockout, and Detention without trial".

I just love being right wing at night.

I have a pathological hatred of C.I.E and all its works, and all its empty promises......Whatever the world does, do not make me Irish Transport minister. I would be crazier than Margaret Thatcher on acid.

noelfirl

Conor J wrote: »

I wish Dublin bus would sort out a few things before they considered increasing the fares. They are a shambolic service, and now we source of our frustration has just got more expensive!

1. I get the 145 quite often, rarely would a single bus arrive. Instead we are greeted by 2x145's or even 3, plus a 45 or an 84. So split the buses up so that only one arrives at a bus stop at a given time. Have 5mins or so between each bus, so we don't miss 3 in a row then wait a half hour for the next!

Dwell times. All those 145s tend to bunch up very easily because the one in front picks up passengers repeatedly and the others catch up from not doing so. The alternate is pure timetabled services where drivers wait at stops if running too quickly, or more regulation in some other way to keep headways even.

2. Do almost all buses have to go in the direction of the city?

That's generally still where most people will be going. In peak times more buses run with the flow.

3. Can't we have a 3 day bus ticket? Some of us work shift and purchasing for 5 or 7 days just isn't suitable.

That shouldn't really make any difference, the rambler tickets allow non consecutive days. Additionally the greater the number of days on the ticket the more economical it works out on a per day basis so you would probably end up paying slightly more per day for a ticket with fewer days.

4. Why oh why are we constantly kicked off a bus and told to get on another?

That one is annoying. There's a repeat offender 145 like this at about 1945 most evenings inbound on the N11 before (but not AT) Donnybrook garage. I guess it may be due to fuel or other maintenance.

5. Punctuality could definitely be improved.

At some point though, for this to seriously happen (and leaving aside insufficient running times) serious effort will have to be put into offboard ticketing and real bus priority measures.

6. Today the bus driver parked at a bus stop for 15mins 3/4 way through the journey as he had to wait for the next driver to arrive. His excuse: "with no school kids, we got here too early!" (could this not be anticipated in advance? Is this the first day the kids were not at school?...no)

lxflyer has written extensively on this elsewhere. The jist being that they're running weekday timetables and rosters where the traffic and passenger levels are too low such that many buses are operating too quickly on their routes and having to stop to take account at driver changeover, etc. Again the solution would involve either specific timetables for days like these and/or stop specific running with smaller waits at most stops.

10. How much money do they spend on replacing glass on bus shelters? I know its not their fault they are broken, that's the fault of stupid idiots. However, would it not be prudent to use a tough plastic partition instead?

Stuff like that was used frequently years ago. It tended to burn very nicely.

psychward

It's back to the Bicycle for me.

psychward

noelfirl wrote: »

Stuff like that was used frequently years ago. It tended to burn very nicely.

How about brick or steel sheeting ? They can even leave perforation holes in it so people can see who or what is on the other side.

dfx-

I was all ready to pay the new cash fare whilst I organise a ticket tonight...

Then AV187 turns up on a 13 and it was free for everyone! Wayfarer, ticket reader and Rambler/Leap reader not working. At last a 13 was giving something back to its put-upon customers :pac:

Carlos Orange

the groutch wrote: »

there lies your problem, you're paying €2.30 cash per journey when you could be paying €1.90 per journey or €3.67 per day with the right prepaid ticket, without having to chance your arm and risk getting caught by inspectors.

I'm always confused as to why regular bus users do not have an annual bus ticket. I got mine mainly to avoid the hassle with cash but I understand they save employee and employer cash.