LETS ALL LAUGH AT PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION!!

Princess Peach · 12-12-2011 11:18pm

Samich wrote: »

Hmm what's the difference? Cancer kills more people than depression.

War has killed more people than cancer, better shut down the cancer threads

Logical Fallacy · 12-12-2011 11:20pm

Samich wrote: »

Most likely moved or locked.

Like i said, give it a shot, then you have valid point.

Till then it's just negativity for the sake of it tbh.

Samich · 12-12-2011 11:21pm

stupidusername wrote: »

there's been a good few threads in AH on cancer.

Also been a thread on depression not too long ago, stickied and everything. Remember the offers of pms and all?

theg81der · 12-12-2011 11:22pm

Judging by the replies here I`d say depression is normal, no stigma here infact the complete opposite I`m sure I`ll be shot down now for not agreeing. I have experienced all these things people talk about at one time or another and some but I don`t believe it is healthy to define it or get too involved in it. It just feels arrogant and self indulgent to me.

The World is sad, horrific and brutal its not changing and I don`t want to forget that there are people out there suffering right this second, how can I care about mundain details when I know how fruitless it is and how inaffective any change I make can be - you can`t change nature.

There are people right now being raped, tortured, murdered - maybe even next door to you, their only need is to live, eat and have warmth they don`t get to climb Maslows pyramid* to even consider their next layer of need. We`re not complicated and you don`t have to be a genius to understand that we simply have too much and thats our problem.

*http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg/450px-Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg.png

Maybe depression is a natural state and not something wrong maybe anything else is just a break with reality. Yes you can choose to seek and find happiness and it will make you happy but I don`t think its real its just choosing to experience something in a particular way.

stupidusername · 12-12-2011 11:22pm

Samich wrote: »

Also been a thread on depression not too long ago, stickied and everything. Remember the offers of pms and all?

So is your problem that you're seeing depression threads too much here? or just not enough about cancer?

nesf · 12-12-2011 11:27pm

stupidusername wrote: »

got to a point in my CBT one where you've to make a list of things that you like about yourself, and couldn't come up with a single thing. so that's where I stopped.

A lot of people in this thread have been in that place. The only thing that I can say to you is that it stops eventually, might not seem that way now but you will come out of this.

nesf · 12-12-2011 11:28pm

theg81der wrote: »

Judging by the replies here I`d say depression is normal, no stigma here infact the complete opposite I`m sure I`ll be shot down now for not agreeing. I have experienced all these things people talk about at one time or another and some but I don`t believe it is healthy to define it or get too involved in it. It just feels arrogant and self indulgent to me.

The World is sad, horrific and brutal its not changing and I don`t want to forget that there are people out there suffering right this second, how can I care about mundain details when I know how fruitless it is and how inaffective any change I make can be - you can`t change nature.

There are people right now being raped, tortured, murdered - maybe even next door to you, their only need is to live, eat and have warmth they don`t get to climb Maslows pyramid* to even consider their next layer of need. We`re not complicated and you don`t have to be a genius to understand that we simply have too much and thats our problem.

*http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg/450px-Maslow%27s_Hierarchy_of_Needs.svg.png

Maybe depression is a natural state and not something wrong maybe anything else is just a break with reality. Yes you can choose to seek and find happiness and it will make you happy but I don`t think its real its just choosing to experience something in a particular way.

If you believe all that then I can tell you that you've probably never been depressed in a clinical sense.

stupidusername · 12-12-2011 11:30pm

nesf wrote: »

A lot of people in this thread have been in that place. The only thing that I can say to you is that it stops eventually, might not seem that way now but you will come out of this.

thanks but what i meant is that I couldn't proceed in the book without having gone through that part. and thinking now... I still don't have anything to write. I will, at some point, take a look at some books, but it's hard to have any hope for anything at this point.

nesf · 12-12-2011 11:32pm

stupidusername wrote: »

thanks but what i meant is that I couldn't proceed in the book without having gone through that part. and thinking now... I still don't have anything to write. I will, at some point, take a look at some books, but it's hard to have any hope for anything at this point.

Yeah, been there. Used to buy books then never read them. Had to get a fair bit better before I was able to sit down and read a book on any topic.

Princess Peach · 12-12-2011 11:33pm

There have been a few threads about depression recently, and all of them have come to a point where people come on the thread who just don't understand it, don't want to understand, don't think its serious or real.

I'm afraid to tell people in real life about my illness, because you never know how they will react. I don't know what I would do if I confided in a friend and was met with one of those type of responses. I have been before by someone I was very close to. It caused me to just stop talking about it, hiding a big part of myself from someone important to me and is possibly one of the reasons the relationship deterioted, because I was afraid to talk about how I felt.

If people have opinions about how real and serious they think depression isn't, fair enough I guess. I assume these people have read through the entire threads before they start bashing it and their opinions have not been swayed otherwise. But I find it very inconsiderate to post it in a thread where people are suffering from this. I have seen so many of these threads descend into debates about the effectiveness on medication or psychiatry, but I really think if you have no first hand experience with anything like this, don't post then!

This thread has been going lovely all day, hope it continues as such

Logical Fallacy · 12-12-2011 11:33pm

theg81der wrote: »

Judging by the replies here I`d say depression is normal, no stigma here infact the complete opposite I`m sure I`ll be shot down now for not agreeing. I have experienced all these things people talk about at one time or another and some but I don`t believe it is healthy to define it or get too involved in it. It just feels arrogant and self indulgent to me.

Have you felt them nonstop, for months on end with no respite?

Or were you just a bit sad for a while and think you have a clue what your on about?

Wibbs · 12-12-2011 11:33pm

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think its very unfair to label depression an intelligent persons disease. Your social circle consists of mainly people you perceive as intelligent i guess.

There is certainly an established link between creativity and mental illness http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/exchange/node/1720 http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/2003/10.23/01-creativity.html While creativity is usually thought of in terms or artists and the like, engineers, physicists, mathematicians etc can also be creative. People who can think out of the box seem more prone to having a slightly dodgy box in the first place. Which makes sense. Otherwise odd, out of the norm associations or original thinking in the mind may turn out to be correct or innovative, compared to a more "ordered" mind that won't or can't make such associations. Other conditions like Aspergers appear to be higher than background with creative types in many fields. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3766697.stm

However O I'm not describing depression or other mental illnesses as an "intelligent persons disease". As you say that would be incorrect as it can affect anyone. Indeed some studies show a higher IQ helps in the treatment of such illnesses. Again this makes sense. More likely to be educated on the condition(s) and more likely to seek and most of all have access to professional help.

I was (badly)making the same point as Dev. IE a diagnosis of mental illness not a reflection on ones mental acuity.

Millicent · 12-12-2011 11:34pm

Samich wrote: »

Have to say these kinda threads remind me of the x factor and the likes where the guys come on and say they got bullied. Car crashes, murders, cancer affect everyone but there isn't any threads on it. sigh.

If you don't like it, don't read it. You're not obligated to, you know. There are plenty of threads on murders, car crashes and cancer. And you may be interested to know that Ireland had its highest year in the nation's history for suicide last year with 527 dead from suicide (not accounting for all those people whose deaths are written off as "accident"). Car crashes killed 212. So, given that depression killed more than car crashes did last year, is it okay with you that we talk about it here?

Further, you do know how a discussion site works, right? People discuss things they are interested in. Because it doesn't interest you, should we shut down every thread that causes you to "sigh" so dramatically?

nesf · 12-12-2011 11:34pm

Princess Peach wrote: »

There have been a few threads about depression recently, and all of them have come to a point where people come on the thread who just don't understand it, don't want to understand, don't think its serious or real.

You should see their reaction to psychosis.

"You believed what???"

Samich · 12-12-2011 11:36pm

stupidusername wrote: »

So is your problem that you're seeing depression threads too much here? or just not enough about cancer?

Don't see a need for them. Just people crying out for attention. IMO.

Logical Fallacy · 12-12-2011 11:37pm

nesf wrote: »

You should see their reaction to psychosis.

"You believed what???"

Yeah, it's almost funny in a way. My parents, while being incredibly understanding about what i have been dealing with, were having a very hard time wrapping their head around some of the **** that has been going through my head the last year.

People's reactions to hearing the word "Schizophrenia" is even better. Thanks Hollywood.

12-12-2011 11:38pm

Great post Dev.

Mr Trade In · 12-12-2011 11:38pm

nesf wrote: »

You should see their reaction to psychosis.

"You believed what???"

People fear what they don't understand and the usual reaction is either slag it off or ignore it completely.

stupidusername · 12-12-2011 11:39pm

Samich wrote: »

Don't see a need for them. Just people crying out for attention. IMO.

you've no idea how hard it is to get to a point where you can talk about it, and now you've just gone and said that, which will no doubt have an effect on many people reading this, already feeling they shouldn't or can't. read what princess peach said above, heck if you look back on my posts in all the many depression threads you'll see exactly what i've faced when telling people about my depression.

don't get involved in something like this if you don't know anything about it AND don't care to.

dr.bollocko · 12-12-2011 11:41pm

mod note:

OK folks. Excellent to read so much input so far on the whole.

Samich. Please do not post in this thread again. Folks please do not feel the need to reply to him further.

Let's not go down that route.

Report posts which cross the line and lets try and keep this thing on topic.

PM for clarification. Fair warning.

theg81der · 12-12-2011 11:41pm

nesf wrote: »

If you believe all that then I can tell you that you've probably never been depressed in a clinical sense.

I have been and I believe that everything I have said makes sense. Depression is not an issue when you are scraping to meet you most basic of need thats what the evidence points to. What exactly have I said thats wrong?

DeVore · 12-12-2011 11:43pm

My problem isnt my depression. Thats not why I wrote this. I have my depression under something resembling control. I still get it but I'm able to handle it myself.

My problem for the last 20 years has been people like you not having an understanding of it. The problem of most of the people on this thread is that you (ye) are poorly informed.

Most of my first post wasn't about me, I dont need or want your pity mate.I'm doing great! What I need is to get this message out there. Mostly to the non-affected. Mostly for the other people with depression.

This isnt my problem I'm solving. Its yours.

DeV.

nesf · 12-12-2011 11:43pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Yeah, it's almost funny in a way. My parents, while being incredibly understanding about what i have been dealing with, were having a very hard time wrapping their head around some of the **** that has been going through my head the last year.

People's reactions to hearing the word "Schizophrenia" is even better. Thanks Hollywood.

Yeah I've got to explain Schizotypal to people now, that's fun.

nesf · 12-12-2011 11:45pm

theg81der wrote: »

I have been and I believe that everything I have said makes sense. Depression is not an issue when you are scraping to meet you most basic of need thats what the evidence points to. What exactly have I said thats wrong?

You've no idea what clinical depression is or what it looks like.

dr.bollocko · 12-12-2011 11:46pm

Hi folks.
Samich banned. Some posts have been removed relating to that little dalliance. Please PM for clarification and carry on.

DeVore · 12-12-2011 11:48pm

dr.bollocko wrote: »

mod note:

OK folks. Excellent to read so much input so far on the whole.

Samich. Please do not post in this thread again. Folks please do not feel the need to reply to him further.

Let's not go down that route please.

Please report posts which cross the line and lets try and keep this thing on topic.

PM for clarification. Fair warning.

Oops. D'Oh.

Ok, but my point stands. I contend that the problem ISNT entirely with people who have this, they could deal with it if it werent for the misunderstandings of the gen.pop.
In that sense Samwich is "on topic", oddly enough

As for explaining other mental illnesses... oh man, I dont think even I have the clarity of wordsmithing to do that. Sorry Nesf!

I cant imagine what that must be like, but I'd say there is a black humour in it all the same

DeV.

Lady Chatterton · 12-12-2011 11:49pm

Samich wrote: »

I'm not on about depression, depression is bad.

I'm on about people posting here!

To be fair, almost everyone who has posted has had depression or has an interest in learning more about the condition. I believe that this is an excellent thread, anything that helps remove the stigma/fear associated with depression is to be welcomed in my opinion. It would be wonderful if it prompted even one person to seek help instead of suffering in silence.

flutterflye · 12-12-2011 11:50pm

stupidusername wrote: »

i'll look into them so. i got a couple of books before too. got to a point in my CBT one where you've to make a list of things that you like about yourself, and couldn't come up with a single thing. so that's where I stopped.

I like your genuineness (if that is a word?!)

theg81der · 12-12-2011 11:50pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Have you felt them nonstop, for months on end with no respite?

Or were you just a bit sad for a while and think you have a clue what your on about?

Since I was a child, 2 suicide attempts as a teen, treated and medicated. It all seems like a black cloud now like I was asleep. I got sick and believe it or not it saved me woke me up - when your fighting for your life (your basic needs) it changes your life.

DeVore · 12-12-2011 11:51pm

ps: I've been swamped by people twittering, booking face and PMing me. Its all good. Its really been a blast. I didnt sleep last night so soon I will crash but its been an awesome (if tiring) day.

I'm gonna play some Defence Grid before bed. GlaDOS calls

DeV.

Logical Fallacy · 12-12-2011 11:53pm

theg81der wrote: »

Since I was a child, 2 suicide attempts as a teen, treated and medicated. It all seems like a black cloud now like I was asleep. I got sick and believe it or not it saved me woke me up - when your fighting for your life (your basic needs) it changes your life.

Well you'll need to forgive for not buying into your Tyler Durden school of thought on it. You went through the ****, no doubt, but that doesn't mean whatever caused it for you and helped you out of it will work for everyone.

TaxationTheft · 12-12-2011 11:54pm

Samich wrote: »

Have to say these kinda threads remind me of the x factor and the likes where the guys come on and say they got bullied. Car crashes, murders, cancer affect everyone but there isn't any threads on it. sigh.

Point is, this thread is for people who have experienced Depression. The context dictates the topic of discussion, do you understand this?

FWIW - The poor research into the causes of Depression leads to ignorant comments like the above. At least I hope so. People associate mental illness with "crazy" and "drugs" and Psychiatrists etc. The most rational person I knew was actually very severely depressed.

Was he crazy? God no. This guy was probably the most rational logical thinker I have come across. Those that do not understand Depression, are condemed to write it off. Ignorance is bliss.

cloud493 · 12-12-2011 11:54pm

I just have.... really bad self injuring instincts. It does me no good, I know, I just do.

stupidusername · 12-12-2011 11:57pm

flutterflye wrote: »

I like your genuineness (if that is a word?!)

thanks

theg81der wrote: »

Since I was a child, 2 suicide attempts as a teen, treated and medicated. It all seems like a black cloud now like I was asleep. I got sick and believe it or not it saved me woke me up - when your fighting for your life (your basic needs) it changes your life.

I get what you're saying, but what others are saying in response is that clinical depression is not something like that. of course if you're starving and homeless then your concerns are feeding yourself and protecting yourself, getting enough to survive, and so on as you move up through the chain. we can understand that. and what you're saying, i think, is that humans are so well off our minds don't have anything 'real' to worry about, and hence comes on the depression. it's not a real illness. and to a point I may agree. but
1) it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist-ie it's a real problem as is. what's the solution, make everyone homeless so they can appreciate their real needs?
2) the theory goes that clinical depression is the form that is chemical and has to be treated-ie can't be ignored away no matter how much people say it can.

starlings · 13-12-2011 12:02am

Earthhorse wrote: »

Aware have a lot of literature on their website addressing just what you're talking about: http://www.aware.ie/help/literature/

There is also more info here: http://www.aware.ie/help/information/supporting_a_loved_one/

I think it has to be acknowledged that helping a loved one through depression can be frustrating and draining at times. This isn't to move the focus off the person suffering with depression but I think it's important to acknowledge it.

Thanks, Earthhorse. In some ways the "you don't understand!" attitude is as unhelpful as "pull yourself together!" from the opposite side, and we'll never get anywhere like that, particularly when most efforts - and those spent by people fighting the illness itself - seem like trying to play chess with a ninja.

Kierjan · 13-12-2011 12:03am

I have skipped all bar the OP. Thanks so much for sharing. I have a friend and a sibling who suffer from depression. I really appreciate how candid you have been. I think this is the very best thing you can do and I just wish more people, whether they have depression or know somebody who has or not could just be open and discuss it like you just have. Thanks again

theg81der · 13-12-2011 12:07am

Please don`t put words in my mouth I don`t agree with Tyler Durden`s philosophy.

I don`t think it`s healthy thou to be supporting the notion that happiness or even contentment is a natural state. I think thats a dangerous idea and leads to unrealistic expectation maybe thats part of the problem. I also think its a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature.

I should have added I absolutely believe in very real chemical imbalances that alter people sense of reality particularly in women eg. pcos and pms and I see them as a very physical problem.

Logical Fallacy · 13-12-2011 12:11am

theg81der wrote: »

Please don`t put words in my mouth I don`t agree with Tyler Durden`s philosophy.

I don`t think it`s healthy thou to be supporting the notion that happiness or even contentment is a natural state. I think thats a dangerous idea and leads to unrealistic expectation maybe thats part of the problem. I also think its a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature.

Reread what i posted.

nesf · 13-12-2011 12:14am

theg81der wrote: »

I don`t think it`s healthy thou to be supporting the notion that happiness or even contentment is a natural state. I think thats a dangerous idea and leads to unrealistic expectation maybe thats part of the problem. I also think its a fundamental misunderstanding of human nature..

There are normal highs and normal lows. You're right it isn't normal to be happy or content all the time. That doesn't mean depression, and mania, don't exist though. Depression is normal unhappiness taken to an extreme beyond normal bounds of human behaviour and experience. It's a fundamentally different thing to something normal like grieving after the death of a loved one.

theg81der · 13-12-2011 12:15am

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Reread what i posted.

Sorry I have dyslexia reading is not my strong suit

nesf · 13-12-2011 12:20am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOAgplgTxfc

This by the way is a good explanation of what depression and what it isn't. Long but well worth watching.

Logical Fallacy · 13-12-2011 12:21am

theg81der wrote: »

Sorry I have dyslexia reading is not my strong suit

No worries.

Eoin · 13-12-2011 12:29am

DeVore wrote: »

So, Wtf have you got to be depressed about??
I have absolutely nothing to be depressed about. By anyone's standards I have lived a life less ordinary. With thanks to everyone on boards, I will probably never have to do a ****ty menial job again. My family are all thankfully healthy and I'm at the top of my game.
If only depression worked that way. It doesn't, it's not rational, it's insidious, it's illogical. Rather bizarrely I'm much more susceptible to it when things are going really well for me. When everything is in chaos and banjaxed I'm like a pig in ****e! Don't think that because someone's life looks great that they can't suffer from this. Don't think that only losers or people down on their luck can be depressed.

Forgive my ignorance on this question - there might not be any one answer.

On the the slip side, I've heard a good few incidences of people being diagnosed with depression after a certain event in their lives, where things were clearly not going well. Maybe they were let go from work, separated from their partner, lost their house etc.

Is this usually an underlying / previously undiagnosed condition being triggered by the event, or can it just develop that suddenly from scratch?

If it can develop that quickly, can a change of circumstances for the better make the condition go away?

The stigma in Ireland is unreal. I was quite shocked to (eventually) find out that various people close to me had depression. If they had cancer, I'd have been told about it.

Murdstone · 13-12-2011 12:31am

Hi folks,

I posted earlier in the thread regarding IQ and depression, I wasn't intending to have a go at anyone, so apologies if it came across that way.

I've read through the thread, and I can identify with a lot of what has been said. In my own case I have found that I don't really have extreme ups and downs, but just have a persistent low mood which interfers with everything in my life. I have no friends, don't get on very well with family, and I've gotten to the point were on a typical day I come straight home from work, have dinner and then go straight to bed and stay there until the next morning.

In the past I tried counselling, was diagnosed by a GP and prescribed anti-depressants, and for about four years I made a serious effort to make friends, and although I learned how to talk to people and sociable I never enjoyed it and wasn't able to maintain friendships. I feel like I did everything I could to improve my situation: I stopped drinking, took exercise, had a good diet, was more sociable and so on, and nothing seemed to make things any better.

I feel like I've become emotionally dead over the past few years. When good or bad things happen I don't feel any different. For example, my grandmother, who basically raised me for the first nine years of my life, and who I continued to be very close with, died last year and I just didn't really have any strong feelings about it at all.

I could go on, but I'm sure yis get the picture. I was thinking of going back on the anti-depressants and seeing if that helps, I also started doing a distance learning course recently, so we'll see how that goes. But the whole situation seems very grim, I feel like I've missed out on a lot of life already and things are unlikely to improve.

Tallon · 13-12-2011 12:33am

Only seeing this now, great post DeV

Well done

Johro · 13-12-2011 12:35am

Kierjan wrote: »

I have skipped all bar the OP. Thanks so much for sharing. I have a friend and a sibling who suffer from depression. I really appreciate how candid you have been. I think this is the very best thing you can do and I just wish more people, whether they have depression or know somebody who has or not could just be open and discuss it like you just have. Thanks again

Maybe you should read some of the other posts too.;)

Yahew · 13-12-2011 12:37am

The OP has 501 thanks. Best ever. Boards.ie should celebrate that by giving him control of the company.

Princess Peach · 13-12-2011 12:37am

Eoin wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on this question - there might not be any one answer.

On the the slip side, I've heard a good few incidences of people being diagnosed with depression after a certain event in their lives, where things were clearly not going well. Maybe they were let go from work, separated from their partner, lost their house etc.

Is this usually an underlying / previously undiagnosed condition being triggered by the event, or can it just develop that suddenly from scratch?

If it can develop that quickly, can a change of circumstances for the better make the condition go away?

The stigma in Ireland is unreal. I was quite shocked to (eventually) find out that various people close to me had depression. If they had cancer, I'd have been told about it.

My last counselor told me a major trigger of my depression is my current life situation. I don't like living with my parents, need more independence. I don't like my job here, I don't have good friends, I live far from my boyfriend, there isn't enough things in my town to interest and motivate me. I do believe her and I think that moving away next year will do me the world of good.

I remember at the time I was seeing this counselor I spent about 2 weeks housesitting for my brother. And everyday I got out of bed earlyish, did all my housework, made good food for myself, did things in the evening.

Whereas today I came home from work, got straight into bed in my messy room, have been pissing about online doing nothing really of interest. Just didn't really care much to do anything else.

I do have a lot of worries for my future about how I will cope and how I can take care of myself, but I'm trying to remember what my counselor said and hope it will all turn out for the best.

nesf · 13-12-2011 12:38am

Eoin wrote: »

Forgive my ignorance on this question - there might not be any one answer.

On the the slip side, I've heard a good few incidences of people being diagnosed with depression after a certain event in their lives, where things were clearly not going well. Maybe they were let go from work, separated from their partner, lost their house etc.

Is this usually an underlying / previously undiagnosed condition being triggered by the event, or can it just develop that suddenly from scratch?

If it can develop that quickly, can a change of circumstances for the better make the condition go away?

The stigma in Ireland is unreal. I was quite shocked to (eventually) find out that various people close to me had depression. If they had cancer, I'd have been told about it.

Well, you shouldn't be diagnosed with depression (normally) unless the low "depressed" mood persists for far longer than it should. Any of those events can trigger a Depression but it's quite normal to feel depressed for a couple of weeks after such an event without it being diagnosable as Depression. The video I posted above goes into the distinction better than I am able to.

Eoin · 13-12-2011 12:42am

Thanks, I will watch it later. And without wanting to sound patronising, fair play to everyone who has posted so honestly.

@Princess Peach, hope you get to move away and get back on the saddle

LETS ALL LAUGH AT PEOPLE WITH DEPRESSION!!

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