Denver Broncos Thread

eagle eye · 14-11-2011 12:31AM

spiralism wrote: »

Much appreciated, certainly feel vindicated now alright, i was laughed at in this same thread for merely wanting tebow in and thinking he'd fare better than orton was doing... feels good being right so far!

Its still a bit early to be calling it to be fair but I'm delighted to see him winning games. I said all along that its those other qualities that I like in Tim Tebow, he is just finding a way to get it done. It mightn't look pretty but its working and long may it continue.

Chucky the tree · 14-11-2011 12:44AM

It was said all along Denver needed to get a run game going if they were to have a chanace to win games, and it's what they have done since Tebow has been in. Kind of funny that Orton being a quarterback who could actually throw the ball has ended up costing him his starting place.

eagle eye · 14-11-2011 01:10AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It was said all along Denver needed to get a run game going if they were to have a chanace to win games, and it's what they have done since Tebow has been in. Kind of funny that Orton being a quarterback who could actually throw the ball has ended up costing him his starting place.

No its not that he can throw the ball that got him benched, its the fact that he was rubbish this year. He panics when the pocket starts collapsing and thats nothing new with him, he is ok and can be very good when he has great protection but he is too much of a panicker to ever be anything other than average.

Chucky the tree · 14-11-2011 01:17AM

eagle eye wrote: »

No its not that he can throw the ball that got him benched, its the fact that he was rubbish this year. He panics when the pocket starts collapsing and thats nothing new with him, he is ok and can be very good when he has great protection but he is too much of a panicker to ever be anything other than average.

But all that stuff Tebow is equally as bad at if not worse, however the difference is Tebow doesn't have to experience a collasping pocket 30+ times a game because of the play calling.

eagle eye · 14-11-2011 01:49AM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

But all that stuff Tebow is equally as bad at if not worse, however the difference is Tebow doesn't have to experience a collasping pocket 30+ times a game because of the play calling.

But Orton can't run the ball so your post is pointless.

Chucky the tree · 14-11-2011 02:04AM

eagle eye wrote: »

But Orton can't run the ball so your post is pointless.

How?

spiralism · 14-11-2011 02:48AM

I would be inclined to think that this team got a bit too pass happy in the last couple of years and it's what set them back. The Broncos always succeeded running the ball, Elways two rings were with TD in the side fwiw.

Orton throwing 40 passes a game was getting us nowhere, he panicked like **** under any hint of pressure behind a struggling OL and the receivers were struggling. Since then Tebow has opened up the run game immensely, as run happy QBs often do and this success with the run (we're now second in the NFL) has got us winning. Now the offensive line has built momentum and is gaining confidence after churning out 250+ rushing performances in the last two games. the WRs are making the catches when really needed and Tebow's getting hit less and less. People say that with Tebow teams can just stack the box and defend the run but it isnt working. This also happened with Orton too, they'd shut down the run and make him go deep, which he couldnt do under any pressure at all because of a combination of bad pocket presence and a case of mark sanchez/joe flacco syndrome where pressuring him makes him **** himself. Factor in an offensive line playing badly and inconsistent receivers and you have why we were 1-4 right there.

kev9100 · 14-11-2011 11:49AM

spiralism wrote: »

Much appreciated, certainly feel vindicated now alright, i was laughed at in this same thread for merely wanting tebow in and thinking he'd fare better than orton was doing... feels good being right so far!

You say you feel vindicated and to be fair, Tebow is winning. But I just can't see how he can last in the NFL. He is just not good enough at throwing the football. He's a great motivator and apparenly a decent enough person too, but he's not a NFL quarterback that a team can rely on.

Syferus · 15-11-2011 12:27AM

It's more about how the Broncos handle him. If he continues to do decently then maybe the Broncos say, hey, let's put everything into trying to develop this guy as a passer and tailoring the offense to his strengths. Any QB can only get better at reading defenses the more game-time they get.

So really comes down to the same question everyone's had all year - will the Broncos be willing to suffer growing pains for the potential of a serious weapon in the future? If Tebow and the Broncos are able to put a wounded Jets team to the sword on Thursday I'd reckon the answer will be yes.

vetinari · 15-11-2011 06:12AM

You get the feeling from the "experts" that Tebow would want to lead the Broncos to the superbowl before he gets any respect. I heard again on the radio here in Boston tonight some pundit bashing him on his accuracy on his warmup throws before the Chiefs game??

Look at Newton, a rookie (I know, I know, Tebow is not a rookie) who's one of the best looking prospects, in fairness, most of their losses are not on him but they've still only won 2 games. Tebow has been amazing so far in terms of touchdowns to takeaways in games he has won. If you're going to stink out the joint, at least do it in a game you wouldn't have won anyways.

I mean the Chiefs game, at 10 to 7 on that third down, it was MADE for a Tebow interception / horrible pass and for the Chiefs to take over and get the go ahead score. And I mean MADE, most journalists were probably half way through their article. That's such a clutch throw. He'll never be Tom Brady but that level of composure in pressure situations isn't common.

vetinari · 15-11-2011 06:15AM

Syferus wrote: »

It's more about how the Broncos handle him. If he continues to do decently then maybe the Broncos say, hey, let's put everything into trying to develop this guy as a passer and tailoring the offense to his strengths. Any QB can only get better at reading defenses the more game-time they get.

So really comes down to the same question everyone's had all year - will the Broncos be willing to suffer growing pains for the potential of a serious weapon in the future? If Tebow and the Broncos are able to put a wounded Jets team to the sword on Thursday I'd reckon the answer will be yes.

Forgot to mention this post. The Broncos with Tebow or Orton should NOT be beating the Jets. This is classic strawman, Tebow will be the whipping boy if they do not beat a "wounded" Jets. The Jets are a significantly superior football team to the Broncos at the moment, no matter who plays quarterback.

bruschi · 15-11-2011 03:16PM

vetinari wrote: »

Forgot to mention this post. The Broncos with Tebow or Orton should NOT be beating the Jets. This is classic strawman, Tebow will be the whipping boy if they do not beat a "wounded" Jets. The Jets are a significantly superior football team to the Broncos at the moment, no matter who plays quarterback.

to be honest, the games Tebow won, I would have expected Orton to do the same. Miami, Oakland (with a new QB and the defence playing useless) and Kansas (who Denver do pretty well against anyway). I would not expect either of them to be beating the Jets. If Tebow does get a win playing well, then it will be more kudos to him. If he loses, no matter what way, I dont see it having much of a bearing on him.

The TD throw the other night was a great pass. But still, he does not look comfortable in the pocket, and at times you are just waiting for something wrong to happen. I just think he was rushed in too soon. But I suppose it was hard on everyone, ORton, Tebow, Denver etc when there was such a clamour for him to go in.

Syferus · 15-11-2011 04:18PM

vetinari wrote: »

Forgot to mention this post. The Broncos with Tebow or Orton should NOT be beating the Jets. This is classic strawman, Tebow will be the whipping boy if they do not beat a "wounded" Jets. The Jets are a significantly superior football team to the Broncos at the moment, no matter who plays quarterback.

That's not the point - if Tebow and the Broncos do beat them it means it'll be very hard for the Broncos front office not to roll with Tebow for the medium term.

Peyton Manning · 15-11-2011 04:24PM

bruschi wrote: »

to be honest, the games Tebow won, I would have expected Orton to do the same.

That's the thing though, Orton had 22 chances to win games against various levels of opposition, and he only won 4 of them. Tebow has managed the same feat in 7. Tebow hasn't done anything to prove he can be a franchise QB or anything like that yet, but what he has done is help get the results Orton wasn't getting, and that has them within 1 game of the AFC West leaders, and results are all that matter right now considering that. With Tebow at QB, a playoff run is possible. With Orton, you're already looking towards the draft. That much has been proven already.

Peyton Manning · 18-11-2011 07:05AM

What do Tim Tebow and Charlie Sheen have in common?

Winning.

Morrisseeee · 18-11-2011 08:09AM

Imagine if Teebow could actually throw the football how good would he be :eek:, better than Elway, but............he can't so he won't, but..........he is winning tho !!

bruschi · 18-11-2011 08:36AM

only saw highlights, but credit where it is due, he is getting results. I'm not sure how, but the broncos have wins on the board. the last drive was excellent from him.

Stev_o · 18-11-2011 12:29PM

Has Tebow won a game yet where Denver were holding the lead for the majority of the match? It's just interesting noting how low scoring these games are.

Peyton Manning · 18-11-2011 12:36PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Has Tebow won a game yet where Denver were holding the lead for the majority of the match?

Last week. They took the lead against the Chiefs in the 1st quarter and held onto it for the rest of the game.

Stev_o · 18-11-2011 01:17PM

Cam Newton wrote: »

Last week. They took the lead against the Chiefs in the 1st quarter and held onto it for the rest of the game.

Interesting how Denvers defence has jumped from last place this year to middle of the pack now this year (17th) and their rushing offence going from 26th last year to 4th this year.

I know some Denver fans will completely tear me a new one but the difference in this team between this year and last year is night and day if you ignore the QB.

Chucky the tree · 18-11-2011 01:24PM

Stev_o wrote: »

Interesting how Denvers defence has jumped from last place this year to middle of the pack now this year (17th) and their rushing offence going from 26th last year to 4th this year.

I know some Denver fans will completely tear me a new one but the difference in this team between this year and last year is night and day if you ignore the QB.

Fox has been an excellent hire. If they can get themselves a decent QB and running back they will be very tough to beat. AFC West could be a very tough division with the Raiders, chiefs and Broncos all having some excellent young talent.

Morrisseeee · 18-11-2011 01:33PM

Stev_o wrote: »

the difference in this team between this year and last year is the QB.

FYP

ie. he's been the spark that ignited the fire, the catalyst, the glue that bonds the team together, they now believe they can win, & with results comes confidence.

Morrisseeee · 18-11-2011 01:56PM

Intetesting listening to Elway last night before the game, he says that Teebow will be there next year, he also stated that he hasn't worked/groomed him yet, he is waiting until the season is over. The interviewers then put up a comparisson between Elway & Teebow, and the joke was: imagine what Teebow can achieve then :pac:

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68DA285C279C4CBE9065324CCD1F4311-0000318644-0002633864-00640L-E9CB7004E99344A094D5735D8D999AD7.jpg

Syferus · 18-11-2011 02:06PM

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Intetesting listening to Elway last night before the game, he says that Teebow will be there next year, he also stated that he hasn't worked/groomed him yet, he is waiting until the season is over. The interviewers then put up a comparisson between Elway & Teebow, and the joke was: imagine what Teebow can achieve then :pac:

Elway particularly has to realize now that Tebow's talent extends way beyond prototypical stats, the kind Elway's career was predicated on. He remains a project QB but if the Broncos haven't seen enough to give him time - and a full off-season as the designated starter - then they never will.

Stev_o · 18-11-2011 03:38PM

While obviously Tebows record has ensured he will start next year I *think* that we can agree that the offence will have to change with him. This year the Option Offence is working fine but given a whole off season teams will counter it.

tallaghtoutlaws · 18-11-2011 04:34PM

Stev_o wrote: »

While obviously Tebows record has ensured he will start next year I *think* that we can agree that the offence will have to change with him. This year the Option Offence is working fine but given a whole off season teams will counter it.

Yup just like how college teams adjust to it and how the wildcat was stamped out. It will look amazing against poor defensive coordinators and ****e against the better ones.

Stev_o · 18-11-2011 04:51PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Yup just like how college teams adjust to it and how the wildcat was stamped out. It will look amazing against poor defensive coordinators and ****e against the better ones.

*Points at the Eagles*. Certain offences can be found out and things become easier to manage.

Syferus · 18-11-2011 05:26PM

Stev_o wrote: »

*Points at the Eagles*. Certain offences can be found out and things become easier to manage.

It's off-topic, but the Eagles offense isn't the main problem this year by a long, long shot - they've not performed as well as last year, but they've had plenty of fourth quarter leads that their defense should have been able to convert into wins but instead leaked match-losing points.

The one thing the Eagles offense is not is one-dimensional.

tallaghtoutlaws · 18-11-2011 05:30PM

Syferus wrote: »

The one thing the Eagles offense is not is one-dimensional.

Again and off topic but this year yes it is. Another example of an offense adjusted to a QB and when the QB fails to perform the Offense becomes so one dimensional they fail to make anything happen. Pats, Colts, Saints and Packers would all have the same problem if their QBs fail to perform as their offenses are built around their QB. This generally happens with Pass first think about running second teams.

Syferus · 18-11-2011 05:40PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Again and off topic but this year yes it is. Another example of an offense adjusted to a QB and when the QB fails to perform the Offense becomes so one dimensional they fail to make anything happen. Pats, Colts, Saints and Packers would all have the same problem if their QBs fail to perform as their offenses are built around their QB. This generally happens with Pass first think about running second teams.

I'd venture to say the Eagles are still the most balanced and all-round talented offense in the league, if not currently the best performing. They can run on you, pass you to death and their QB is both a run and deep threat. LeSean McCoy in particular is a huge step up in the run game over the best performing offenses in the league like the Patriots, Packers or Saints.

Vick's throwing more interceptions this year but he's still manged to put them in very winnable positions in alot of games they lost - some of those interceptions came on desperate drives after their defence surrendered a 4th quarter lead or were simply the fault of his blockers or receivers. I don't rest a huge amount of Phily's troubles this year on his shoulders.

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