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Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread.

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Comments

  • #4562
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Indeed, but the problem is where we have depth we also tend to lose players to Irish duty.

    In second row and scrum half yeah but not in the centres or outside backs.


  • #4563
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    In second row and scrum half yeah but not in the centres or outside backs.

    But we don't have depth in the centres and outside backs...


  • #4564
    muscleshirt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭muscleshirt


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Not Munchins anyway. I've no idea where he went to school but, I remember hearing good stories about him from lads who played with him for Shannon.
    i think it was Flananns he went to school,came up through the under age in shannon


  • #4565
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Munster are, to a degree, still recovering from the complete lack of regard Kidney paid to the Academy system. From what I hear he left it in an absolute state. They're still several years behind Leinster and Ulster in that regard.


  • #4566
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    vinny chase wrote: »
    Who is Luke O'Dea? Any of the Munster fans able to say much about him?
    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Think I've only seen him play once but he's doing quite well for Shannon in the AIL. Seems to be getting a few tries for them this season. Think he's from Ennis RFC by way of Munchins (maybe?). Not sure if he's still u20, but he was until fairly recently.
    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Not Munchins anyway. I've no idea where he went to school but, I remember hearing good stories about him from lads who played with him for Shannon.
    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    While that's true, so much of that is beyond McGahan's control. All I'm saying is under his tenure, the Academy is getting better.
    Certainly wasnt in munchins, he is a munster youth and irish youth(1 of only 2 munster lads in the squad that year) from ennis but has been with shannon for a few years before he played on the youths which was 3 years ago
    Saw him when he was on the youths, good player, started AIL with shannon u19 ad has been starting since.
    Hes a 1990 so was overage for 20s this season,

    The academy is getting better but if some of the people involved in picking squads(not academy but the players in those squads are future acad players) were choosing players because of their talent and skills instead of who they are and where they come from it could be so much better. It would not be as good as leinsters at any stretch but a vast improvement on what is currently there though recently it has improved.


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  • #4567
    TomsOnTheRoof
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭TomsOnTheRoof


    It's true that Munster have a number of problems at the moment but imho the negativity of some on here would have you believing that the province was no longer capable of fielding side with potential. That is just not true. Fla and Wally are big losses but Wally should be back sometime around feb and hopefully Fla can get his injury woes sorted. Keatley looks good as a back up fly halve, Murray, although still wet behind the ears, looks to be our longterm national solution at 9 and POM already has the gritty determination and ball carrying ability necessary for high intensity matches. Sure they are not playing to the best of their abilities at the mo but that is to be expected with so many injuries. If history has taught us anything, it's a fool who writes off Munster, especially when it comes to Europe.


  • #4568
    Leroy Lita
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Leroy Lita


    ormond lad wrote: »
    Shannon didnt poach donnacha as he was in college in cork when he joined them.
    Donnacha started playing rugby at 17 as he wanted to play a sport over the winter to keep fit as he was aiming to be on the following years tipp minor panel
    Pat Whelan(super coach from nenagh) convinced him to play rugby and he immediately(with a bit of help from pat) made munster and irish youths then helped munchins win the senior cup in 2002. He didnt join shannon until 2004 having played in cork for a year

    Minor hurling or football? i presume its football as I doubt Donnacha was any where near county minor hurling standard.


  • #4569
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    I think it's one of those things you have to look at the standard of players.

    Which group do you think is better?

    Fogs, Holland, TOD, Williams, Gleeson, Hurley

    v.

    Sherry, Nagle, POM, Murray, Barnes, Zebo.

    Is it not striking how much better the second group is? Is that not evidence that better players are being produced?

    Of the above listed players, throw in 28 year old Donncadh Ryan & archer also, how many of these have started HC games? that's the issue people are trying to raise, Munster have for the last few seasons been reluctant to trust players to play more important games.

    Fortunately i think this season will see great change(for the good) and we'll see Sherry, POM & Murray start front line games.

    the other issue that needs addressing is that there are players at 24/25/26 who have not made the break through yet are still in the extended squad, Deasy, Gleeson, Holland, Nagle, Tommy O'Donnell these guys need to be cut adrift and the opportunities be given to the next generation coming through. (even though i think TOD is a quality player and time i've seen him play)


  • #4570
    ormond lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,632 ✭✭✭ormond lad


    Leroy Lita wrote: »
    Minor hurling or football? i presume its football as I doubt Donnacha was any where near county minor hurling standard.
    Both, he played tipp minor football but had aspirations to play with the hurlers(and played a small bit with them afaik). Dont think hed have made it as a hurler

    "I was playing senior for Nenagh and I was told to put on a bit of weight if I was going to be considered for the Tipp minors"
    http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/kfgbojmhaumh/rss2/#ixzz1dO4YIID4


  • #4571
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    bamboozle wrote: »
    Of the above listed players, throw in 28 year old Donncadh Ryan & archer also, how many of these have started HC games? that's the issue people are trying to raise, Munster have for the last few seasons been reluctant to trust players to play more important games.

    Fortunately i think this season will see great change(for the good) and we'll see Sherry, POM & Murray start front line games.

    the other issue that needs addressing is that there are players at 24/25/26 who have not made the break through yet are still in the extended squad, Deasy, Gleeson, Holland, Nagle, Tommy O'Donnell these guys need to be cut adrift and the opportunities be given to the next generation coming through. (even though i think TOD is a quality player and time i've seen him play)

    Cut Nagle? And TOD? I'd agree with the first 3...they've shown what level they're at and it's not HC standard. Definitely wouldn't get rid of Nagle, lots of second rows don't come into their own till they get on a bit and I'd at least give him a proper chance first. And similar with TOD...I mean Coughlan was 27/28 before he cemented his place in the first team, which is not ideal but if TOD has the quality, I'd keep him around for a while longer.


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  • #4572
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    Cut Nagle? And TOD? I'd agree with the first 3...they've shown what level they're at and it's not HC standard. Definitely wouldn't get rid of Nagle, lots of second rows don't come into their own till they get on a bit and I'd at least give him a proper chance first. And similar with TOD...I mean Coughlan was 27/28 before he cemented his place in the first team, which is not ideal but if TOD has the quality, I'd keep him around for a while longer.

    true enough, perhaps then Nagle & TOD would benefit from a season or two out west to get game time, the odd magners league game, Munster A game or run out for Con or UL Bohs is not going to get the most out of their ability. Look at Donncadh Ryan, 28 and 1 HC start, had he gone somewhere else for 2-3 seasons he'd be a far better player now


  • #4573
    Fireball07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    bamboozle wrote: »
    true enough, perhaps then Nagle & TOD would benefit from a season or two out west to get game time, the odd magners league game, Munster A game or run out for Con or UL Bohs is not going to get the most out of their ability. Look at Donncadh Ryan, 28 and 1 HC start, had he gone somewhere else for 2-3 seasons he'd be a far better player now

    Possibly should. But I also dislike using Connacht as a feeder club...send out our young players who aren't good enough to start, get them to play for 2 years and then take them back if they're any good?? Obviously I care more about Munster, but that can't really be good for Connacht's development. With Connacht having stronger underage teams recently, I'd hope a time like that is coming to an end.


  • #4574
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,595 ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    TOD wouldn't get into the Connacht back row imo


  • #4575
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Fireball07 wrote: »
    But we don't have depth in the centres and outside backs...

    That was the point I was trying to make. When POC, DOC, Murray and TOL are called up to Ireland there is still MOD, Nagle, Holland, Stringer, and Williams to cover.

    Munster have only 1 outside back in the Ireland squad, Earls, yet they they still have alot of players in these positions which are all second string.


  • #4576
    NikNak8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 172 ✭✭NikNak8


    Munster: J Murphy; D Howlett, D Barnes, L Mafi, D Hurley; R O'Gara, C Murray; W du Preez, D Varley, BJ Botha; D Ryan, P O'Connell capt; P O'Mahony, N Ronan, J Coughlan.

    Replacements: D Fogarty, J Ryan, J Hayes, D O'Callaghan, D Leamy, T O'Leary, I Keatley, W Chambers.

    Some big calls made by McG hope they pay off!


  • #4577
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭touts


    In order to fill out the bench we're reduced to more or less calling John Hayes out of retirement, parachuting an AIL player (John Ryan) straight into the HEC and getting a temporary signing from the Queensland Reds C team (Chambers). Holy ****! That's a damning result from McGahan's inability to properly build a squad.


  • #4578
    leakyboots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,550 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    James Coughlan came from AIL along with a few other Munster stalwarts. Horan is ill.


  • #4579
    MaryKing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 278 ✭✭MaryKing


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    That was the point I was trying to make. When POC, DOC, Murray and TOL are called up to Ireland there is still MOD, Nagle, Holland, Stringer, and Williams to cover.

    Munster have only 1 outside back in the Ireland squad, Earls, yet they they still have alot of players in these positions which are all second string.

    Leinster have only one player in the Ireland outside backs (Rob Kearney) so are no different really. Felix Jones might change that as well if he ever gets fit.


  • #4580
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    MaryKing wrote: »
    Leinster have only one player in the Ireland outside backs (Rob Kearney) so are no different really. Felix Jones might change that as well if he ever gets fit.

    I was including the centres in the outside backs.

    I was just trying to highlight the lopsidedness of the Munster squad from my post:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75406575&postcount=4560


  • #4581
    vinny chase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 816 ✭✭✭vinny chase


    MaryKing wrote: »
    Leinster have only one player in the Ireland outside backs (Rob Kearney) so are no different really. Felix Jones might change that as well if he ever gets fit.

    Eh, Mary did you know that the centres are routinely considered the outside backs as well? And have you heard of guys like Shane Horgan, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden?

    Why in the name of God do you feel the need to try and spin every single comment about Munster into something about Leinster? Do you ever feel that Munster can be simply objectively scrutinised without the comparison being necessary?

    *especially as it's a comparison that isn't doing Munster any favours of late.


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  • #4582
    MaryKing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 278 ✭✭MaryKing


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    I was including the centres in the outside backs.

    I was just trying to highlight the lopsidedness of the Munster squad from my post:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=75406575&postcount=4560


    Fair enough then. You might include the half-backs then? It would make Munster look a bit better!


  • #4583
    MaryKing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 278 ✭✭MaryKing


    vinny chase wrote: »
    Eh, Mary did you know that the centres are routinely considered the outside backs as well? And have you heard of guys like Shane Horgan, Luke Fitzgerald, Fergus McFadden?

    Why in the name of God do you feel the need to try and spin every single comment about Munster into something about Leinster? Do you ever feel that Munster can be simply objectively scrutinised without the comparison being necessary?

    *especially as it's a comparison that isn't doing Munster any favours of late.

    Well I would always think of halfbacks, centres and back three.

    And I have indeed, all fine players, but hardly starters for Ireland now.

    As for the comparison - its a convenient example to use. I'll also include Ulster if you like. They supply 1 player (Tommy Bowe is really an Ulster player). So - its fairly even supply at the moment from the Big 3.


  • #4584
    vinny chase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 816 ✭✭✭vinny chase


    MaryKing wrote: »
    Well I would always think of halfbacks, centres and back three.

    And I have indeed, all fine players, but hardly starters for Ireland now.

    As for the comparison - its a convenient example to use. I'll also include Ulster if you like. They supply 1 player (Tommy Bowe is really an Ulster player). So - its fairly even supply at the moment from the Big 3.

    Well then you'd be including the whole back line, and there would be absolutely no need whatsoever for the distinction of the phrase "outside" backs, would there?!

    You genuinely do not believe, for whatever reason, that Munster should ever be criticised on anything.


  • #4585
    profitius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,976 ✭✭✭profitius


    Anybody know anything about Darren Moroney who is sub on the Munster B&I cup squad? All I know is he is a winger for UL Bohs.


  • #4586
    MaryKing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 278 ✭✭MaryKing


    vinny chase wrote: »
    Well then you'd be including the whole back line, and there would be absolutely no need whatsoever for the distinction of the phrase "outside" backs, would there?!

    You genuinely do not believe, for whatever reason, that Munster should ever be criticised on anything.

    Sorry, if it makes you happy I won't comment again.


  • #4587
    CatFromHue
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,464 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    MaryKing wrote: »
    Fair enough then. You might include the half-backs then? It would make Munster look a bit better!

    But Munster have a problem in having 48 players, 47 when when Chambers leaves, on their books. It's a problem that needs to be addressed big time.

    To put it in perspective Toulon have a squad of 47, Racing Metro have 40, Clermont have 38, and Stade Francais have 45.

    Toulon and Racing Metro are funded by a Sugar Daddy while Stade Francais nearly went bust last season. Financially having such a big squad and also two training bases like Munster is financially draining. I'm speculating here of course.

    Playing wise there is a problem too as a lot of the squad will not get any serious game time this season. Some of the squad may not get any yet are on senior contracts and have been for a few years.


  • #4588
    vinny chase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 816 ✭✭✭vinny chase


    MaryKing wrote: »
    Sorry, if it makes you happy I won't comment again.

    I'm not saying that; I'm just saying that not every time someone says something about Munster that isn't positive are they having a dig at them. Sometimes it's actual constructive criticism, and that this constant provincial sniping by comparing everything back to Leinster and attempting to drag every single issue like this into a provincial argument doesn't help anyone.

    It's an almost indisputable fact that Munster have struggled of late in producing outside backs; evidenced by the sheer number of imports who've played there for them; including Mafi, Tipoki, Cullen, Warwick, Payne, Chambers, de Villiers etc etc.


  • #4589
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    CatFromHue wrote: »
    But Munster have a problem in having 48 players, 47 when when Chambers leaves, on their books. It's a problem that needs to be addressed big time.

    To put it in perspective Toulon have a squad of 47, Racing Metro have 40, Clermont have 38, and Stade Francais have 45.

    Toulon and Racing Metro are funded by a Sugar Daddy while Stade Francais nearly went bust last season. Financially having such a big squad and also two training bases like Munster is financially draining. I'm speculating here of course.

    Playing wise there is a problem too as a lot of the squad will not get any serious game time this season. Some of the squad may not get any yet are on senior contracts and have been for a few years.


    I'd go along with that, we do need to cull the squad, as much as anything else, it has to be a serious wage bill for guys who mostly play AIL.


  • #4590
    theKramer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭theKramer


    How does the Munster squad size compare to the other provinces?


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  • #4591
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    theKramer wrote: »
    How does the Munster squad size compare to the other provinces?

    It's a good bit bigger than the others, Cat from Hue did a breakdown of it a few pages back.


This discussion has been closed.
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