Bicycle fines for running a red light?

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 1:41am #1

Sorry if this has come up before but I couldn't find it.

Ok so today was cycling back as normal and while going through Camden street, I got pulled over by a Garda because I went through a yellow light although he says red because the pedestrians lights had turned green already.

Anyway he took my details threatening to take my bike if they were false, and said I would receive a summons! Since when do you go to court for going through a red light?? He also mentioned a fine, being a poor student I can't afford to pay a fine.

Just to say I've gone through plenty of red lights since I do be in a hurry to get home in the rain and cold but a summons is a bit extreme.
If anyone has been in a previous situation I'd like to know what happened to them.
Thanks

galwaycyclist · 05-11-2011 1:49am

jin.ie wrote: »

Sorry if this has come up before but I couldn't find it.

Ok so today was cycling back as normal and while going through Camden street, I got pulled over by a Garda because I went through a yellow light although he says red because the pedestrians lights had turned green already.

Anyway he took my details threatening to take my bike if they were false, and said I would receive a summons! Since when do you go to court for going through a red light?? He also mentioned a fine, being a poor student I can't afford to pay a fine.

Just to say I've gone through plenty of red lights since I do be in a hurry to get home in the rain and cold but a summons is a bit extreme.
If anyone has been in a previous situation I'd like to know what happened to them.
Thanks

A summons is the standard method for getting you into court so you can be prosecuted. I would suspect that it has been illegal to run red lights since traffic lights were invented.

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 2:07am

Yes but since when do cyclists always follow the same rules as motorists? If the path is clear you go, do you stop for every single red light? I wish we had some proper form of transport in Dublin, I'm fed up of cycling

coolbeans · 05-11-2011 2:09am

If you don't want to get a fine stop at reds. If you don't like cycling get the bus. I'm fed up of whiners.

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 2:12am

Ha if I had the money to buy an €82 bus ticket every month I would, and the bus takes twice as long

coolbeans · 05-11-2011 2:14am

jin.ie wrote: »

Ha if I had the money to buy an €82 bus ticket every month I would, and the bus takes twice as long

Walk so...

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 2:19am

Two hours walk every day coming into Winter, sounds delightful...

Skatedude · 05-11-2011 2:27am

the rules of the road are just that, rules for road users,including pedestrians. it dosent say "except bikes" after it.
Anyone running a red light can cause an accident, I got let off with a caution for having my bike on a footpath, the fact that i mounted the footpath to avoid a car that pulled out in front of me didnt seem to mater to the guard, and it was the guard that was the driver.

Darkglasses · 05-11-2011 2:27am

Well, it IS the law. I do stop at all red lights, irritates me no end to see people flouting the rules.

coolbeans · 05-11-2011 2:39am

I think u should stop moaning and cycle according to the law so.

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 2:39am

It's illegal to cycle on footpaths too? well I always thought it was normal to just cycle on when the road was clear. who reads the rules of the road when you're a cyclist? I really miss the metro..

Cookie_Monster · 05-11-2011 4:12am

jin.ie wrote: »

It's illegal to cycle on footpaths too? well I always thought it was normal to just cycle on when the road was clear. who reads the rules of the road when you're a cyclist? I really miss the metro..

why wouldn't you? Ignorance is not an excuse by the way, neither is "being a poor student".

(and yes, it is illegal to cycle on the footpath)

You miss the metro, but can't afford to get the bus, me thinks you couldn't afford the metro either and would still whinge about being poor and having to cycle it whatever city that was.

IsThisIt??? · 05-11-2011 4:21am

I don't know if you're being a troll or just being ignorant now.

It's stuff like this that make people say cyclists are a danger on the road, you're obviously meant to stop at a red light like, the same way you're meant to indicate and what not. Never mind being against the law, it's just safe!!

yourpics · 05-11-2011 4:26am

Of course you can't run a red light on your bicyle, you are subject to pretty much the same rules as a car.
If you want to go through the red light, get off your bike and push it along the footpath. Then get back on your bike and cycle the road.

Wheely GR8 · 05-11-2011 5:53am

Do us all a favour and never drive a bus.

tuxy · 05-11-2011 6:04am

Obvious troll

Captain Havoc · 05-11-2011 7:57am

tuxy wrote: »

Obvious troll

If you think someone is trolling, report it, don't do it in thread.

Captain Havoc · 05-11-2011 7:59am

OP, I think you're version of events are somewhat incorrect, I cannot think of one pedestrian light that turns green before traffic light turns red. Also, amber means stop unless it's unsafe to do so, not squeeze through as quick as you can.

Joekers · 05-11-2011 8:08am

Op it's for your own good I can remember constantly breaking a certain red light when I would be cycling to school till I was caught by a garda who told me if he caught me again I would be getting a fine, few months later as I was approaching the light it just turned amber so I slowed down but the chap behind didn't then BOOM he was hit by a car, such a horrible sight to see but those few months definitely got me to learn my lesson of not cutting lights and if you have learned something than its a fine well served

shannon_tek · 05-11-2011 8:23am

Do it Mr Bean style. Dismount and walk across. No laws broken and you also became a pedestrian and then went back to being a road user.

:pac:

Oldlegs · 05-11-2011 8:24am

Even as "Friday" posts go, this one is not great.
... went through an "amber" light, but Pedestrian light was already green

Might be best to IGNORE this sort of thread - (so why am I responding

)

psychward · 05-11-2011 8:37am

I can see Jins point if he was merely wheeling the bike while sat on it at less than walking speed along the edge of the kerb past an amber light with no dangers in sight. Theres a huge difference between that sort of thing and ploughing into a busy zone when you are on a bicycle especially since pedestrians have no problem walking through red lights where some people expect a bicycle to stop and there is no laws against jaywalking in Ireland. Manys the time I cycled through college green past the Bank of Ireland with a green light on and about 40 pedestrians obstructing my right of way as they cross from Trinity.
The Guards might try fining some bankers and politicians instead of wasting courtroom, judge and citizens' time on trivial matters. However I'm not ruling out that Jin might have been cycling like a lunatic as it seems very rare for cyclists to get into trouble with the Guards.

Cookie_Monster · 05-11-2011 9:14am

Captain Havoc wrote: »

OP, I think you're version of events are somewhat incorrect, I cannot think of one pedestrian light that turns green before traffic light turns red. Also, amber means stop unless it's unsafe to do so, not squeeze through as quick as you can.

Plenty of junctions that turn red from orange in the time it takes to cycle across them at a moderate pace. I can think of a few times where I was past the line on green, yet still red by the time I got to the other end of the junction, so entirely possible that the pedestrian lights could go green in that time.

Wheely GR8 · 05-11-2011 9:18am

How could a guard not stop someone who breaks a light in front of them. What next ,banks give out free money ?

Mint Sauce · 05-11-2011 9:28am

Wheely GR8 wrote: »

Do us all a favour and never drive a bus.

Or atleast read the rules of the road before heading out again. They apply to everyone using the road, including cyclists.

Kadongy · 05-11-2011 9:38am

In some cases it seems anal to apply red light law to bicycles:

Lights at a junction where a bicycle is turning left.
Lights at a T-junction where a bicycle is going on and the connecting road is to the right.

And cycling up a line of traffic stopped at a light and leisurely proceeding on in front of them baits motorists a bit. This is good because motorists cause pollution, car crashes and obesity.

dazberry · 05-11-2011 9:43am

There was a motor cycle garda perched outside the bull and castle yesterday evening with notebook in hand catching cyclists breaking the pedestrian lights on Lord Edward St/Christchurch place. I suspect we'll see a lot more of these threads is weeks to come...

While it is really one of my pet hates having to avoid cyclists on pedestrian crossings and that one in no exception, there are - in my mind - a lot better places where a little encouragement by the gardai would be far more effective, rather then shooting a few fish in a barrel as they struggle uphill from Lord Edward St.

D.

Mint Sauce · 05-11-2011 9:48am

Kadongy wrote: »

In some cases it seems anal to apply red light law to bicycles:
Lights at a junction where a bicycle is turning left.

Lights at a T-junction where a bicycle is going on and the connecting road is to the right.

Totally agree, feel like a right kn0b sitting there sometimes.

Kadongy wrote: »

And cycling up a line of traffic stopped at a light and leisurely proceeding on in front of them baits motorists a bit. This is good because motorists cause pollution, car crashes and obesity.

Are you referring to cycling on ahead, or stopping at the advance stop line/cyclebox. I always do the later regardless if theres a box or not. Purly because i dont want some 3 axel truck crushing me as he turns left, or being caught up in accelerating traffic before I speed up again.

Scrappychimow · 05-11-2011 9:58am

jin.ie wrote: »

Sorry if this has come up before but I couldn't find it.

Ok so today was cycling back as normal and while going through Camden street, I got pulled over by a Garda because I went through a yellow light although he says red because the pedestrians lights had turned green already.

Anyway he took my details threatening to take my bike if they were false, and said I would receive a summons! Since when do you go to court for going through a red light?? He also mentioned a fine, being a poor student I can't afford to pay a fine.

Just to say I've gone through plenty of red lights since I do be in a hurry to get home in the rain and cold but a summons is a bit extreme.
If anyone has been in a previous situation I'd like to know what happened to them.
Thanks

You were caught at westmoreland street last night at around 6:30? I saw the guard with you just past the lights!

ROK ON · 05-11-2011 10:07am

Captain Havoc wrote: »

OP, I think you're version of events are somewhat incorrect, I cannot think of one pedestrian light that turns green before traffic light turns red. Also, amber means stop unless it's unsafe to do so, not squeeze through as quick as you can.

I disagree Capt. I am aware of several lights where the Amber traffic light & the green man are linked. They are the ones where the Amber starts flashing before it turns green for traffic (not red for stop). I was at one a few days ago.

It would be easy in this case for a ped (cop in this case) to believe that the cyclist is in the wrong.
IIRC how such flashing Amber lights are supposed to operate is that the traffic can proceed with caution when there are no peds present.

As regards the ops original query re ROTR, I think he is correct. Many cyclists don't believe them. I was at an event last week where about 20-30 cyclists ignored every traffic light frOm Dublin City Centre to Nth Co Dublin. One of them was a mod here :-)

looksee · 05-11-2011 10:11am

I went across a road with the 'green man' yesterday and a cyclist went across the crossing in front of me, so I had to stop to let him pass. He did not appear to be aware of the crossing, the lights, or the fact that there were people approaching him.

shannon_tek · 05-11-2011 10:26am

looksee wrote: »

I went across a road with the 'green man' yesterday and a cyclist went across the crossing in front of me, so I had to stop to let him pass. He did not appear to be aware of the crossing, the lights, or the fact that there were people approaching him.

Ive noticed that cyclists dont give two craps. just cycle into a crowd of ppl specially o connell area

worded · 05-11-2011 10:34am

+1. Laws for the little man.

rp · 05-11-2011 11:30am

irish-stew wrote: »

Are you referring to cycling on ahead, or stopping at the advance stop line/cyclebox. I always do the later regardless if theres a box or not. Purly because i dont want some 3 axel truck crushing me as he turns left, or being caught up in accelerating traffic before I speed up again.

Not to mention having to sit there behind those yokes, sucking in the fumes. bleugh!

Jawgap · 05-11-2011 11:50am

First, you were 41 minutes late for a proper Friday thread.

Second, running red lights is pretty much one of those rules that need to be actually observed.

Third, running red lights at this time of the year (just as the clocks go back) is a bit mental considering this is when the Guards launch their annual jihad against red light jumping, ninja, salmon cyclists using the foodpads. It's extra-mental to do it in the city centre where there are loads of Guards.

Finally, my genuine sympathy for getting caught. I think all you can do at this stage is hope the Guard has better things to do than summons you and if you get summonsed wear a nice suit and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity - and hope you are not part of a long list of cyclists to come before a cranky district judge looking to make some examples.

Good luck

tomasrojo · 05-11-2011 12:19pm

Kadongy wrote: »

In some cases it seems anal to apply red light law to bicycles:
Lights at a junction where a bicycle is turning left.

Lights at a T-junction where a bicycle is going on and the connecting road is to the right.

I can definitely see some merit in giving cyclists an exemption on the first point. On the second, I'd prefer if cyclists didn't proceed through. If another cyclist is coming through the green light and is off to the left of the main traffic stream (as most are), it can put the light-breaking cyclist and the cyclist with right of way on a collision course.

I guess in either case, if they were to be legally allowed, cyclists going through the red light should have to behave as at a Stop sign. Red-light jumpers as things stand almost never behave in this way.

markpb · 05-11-2011 12:35pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

I can definitely see some merit in giving cyclists an exemption on the first point. On the second, I'd prefer if cyclists didn't proceed through. If another cyclist is coming through the green light and is off to the left of the main traffic stream (as most are), it can put the light-breaking cyclist and the cyclist with right of way on a collision course.

Flashing amber lights for the cycle lanes should/would solve that problem.

tomasrojo · 05-11-2011 1:19pm

markpb wrote: »

Flashing amber lights for the cycle lanes should/would solve that problem.

The only cycle lanes with dedicated lights, as far as I know, are on the new Grand Canal facility, which, again, as far as I know, hasn't opened yet.

I don't see them investing in dedicated lights for all cycle lanes. And most roads (I think) still don't have cycle lanes of any kind.

Head The Wall · 05-11-2011 3:29pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

I can definitely see some merit in giving cyclists an exemption on the first point.

They should only be allowed turn left at a red light only if there is no traffic coming from their right but this being Ireland they will pull out in front of oncoming traffic regardless. I think it's good that this law is in place.

I have seen it in the states and it works well because of the amount of police on the roads and they do pick people up for the smallest things so people know not to take the piss too much, unlike here!

psychward · 05-11-2011 6:08pm

In the states at least in San Fran I seem to remember cars could turn a corner slowly even if there was a red light but always had to give right of way.

CramCycle · 05-11-2011 6:15pm

ROK ON wrote: »

As regards the ops original query re ROTR, I think he is correct. Many cyclists don't believe them. I was at an event last week where about 20-30 cyclists ignored every traffic light frOm Dublin City Centre to Nth Co Dublin. One of them was a mod here :-)

If your on about the dying Light, were there other mods there? I remember stopping at lights as a few participants rolled on through, I did amber gamble on one as there were a few people right on my rear wheel and I had already crossed the white line. So stopping wasn't safe at the time.

tomasrojo wrote: »

The only cycle lanes with dedicated lights, as far as I know, are on the new Grand Canal facility, which, again, as far as I know, hasn't opened yet.

I don't see them investing in dedicated lights for all cycle lanes. And most roads (I think) still don't have cycle lanes of any kind.

There are dedicated cycle lane lights on the road from Nutgrove shopping centre to Terenure, unfortunately, they are often actually off the road and cycle track and often in line with pavements, silly light planning people.

Beasty · 05-11-2011 6:19pm

sheamo f wrote: »

Do us a favour and don't post silly stuff that you know is wrong

6 posts and you're already telling other posters what to do. As the Captain has already said, if you have a problem with a post, report it and leave it for the mods to deal with

Thanks

Beasty

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 6:35pm

Jawgap:
First, you were 41 minutes late for a proper Friday thread.

Second, running red lights is pretty much one of those rules that need to be actually observed.

Third, running red lights at this time of the year (just as the clocks go back) is a bit mental considering this is when the Guards launch their annual jihad against red light jumping, ninja, salmon cyclists using the foodpads. It's extra-mental to do it in the city centre where there are loads of Guards.

Finally, my genuine sympathy for getting caught. I think all you can do at this stage is hope the Guard has better things to do than summons you and if you get summonsed wear a nice suit and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity - and hope you are not part of a long list of cyclists to come before a cranky district judge looking to make some examples.

Good luck

Thanks for the advice, firstly just need to be more careful, stop at more red lights, and be safer ( I will still go on if there is absolutely no one around) ye this time of year the Gards seem to have nothing better to do.

But I did notice a few more lights where I went by on green and the other side had already changed, so I'm not seeing things. Right so all I can do is wait and see, although of my friends have laughed at the idea of being summonsed.

ps Thanks Beasty, let the mods decide

6 posts and you're already telling other posters what to do. As the Captain has already said, if you have a problem with a post, report it and leave it for the mods to deal with

Thanks
Beasty

pps I do stop for pedestrians at the crossings, I'm not that bad

Arthurdaly · 05-11-2011 6:43pm

I was about to say lesson learned but obviosly not! When there is a red light you stop and adhere to the rules of the road not plough through when you think its safe.

Cyclist deserve a bad rep in my opinion, as far as I can see there is a very small percentage adhere to the rules.

Why would you think it is ok to move through a red light? Gonna start doing that in your car?

HivemindXX · 05-11-2011 6:49pm

jin.ie wrote: »

But I did notice a few more lights where I went by on green and the other side had already changed, so I'm not seeing things.

Just to clarify, you claim to have seen multiple junctions recently where both directions have the green light at the same time is this correct?

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 6:51pm

I was about to say lesson learned but obviosly not! When there is a red light you stop and adhere to the rules of the road not plough through when you think its safe.

Cyclist deserve a bad rep in my opinion, as far as I can see there is a very small percentage adhere to the rules.

Why would you think it is ok to move through a red light? Gonna start doing that in your car?

Well, Bicycles are cars are completely different, bikes are more manoeuver-able, you can hear everything that goes on around you, if I walked across the road with my bike would it make it any better?
so for example if it was late at night and there was no one on the road, who not go ahead? who cares???
and no I wouldn't do it in a car, because that is more dangerous and in a car I wouldn't act the same as on a bike.

Beasty · 05-11-2011 6:52pm

The OP said he went through a yellow, which is permissible if it is not safe to stop before the lights

He also admitted to breaking reds on other occasions, which is clearly illegal, but not what he said happened on this occasion

So I see 3 scenarios -

1. Fine for breaking a red light - Yes.
2. Fine for breaking a yellow light when it is safe to stop - Yes
3. Fine for breaking a yellow light when it is not safe to stop - No

Given there is judgement involved in determining whether or not it is safe to stop on yellow, and it's usually a split second decision, I suspect it would be difficult to prove and therefore enforce a fine in situation 2.

jin.ie · 05-11-2011 6:54pm

HivemindXX

Just to clarify, you claim to have seen multiple junctions recently where both directions have the green light at the same time is this correct?

Ye I seen one for certain, around Ranelagh, went through on green and passing the junction on my left the lights had already turned, luckily the cars didn't go out

3. Fine for breaking a yellow light when it is not safe to stop - No

No one will believe that anyway right? so I guess it would be always number 2, and how much would that be? he said a small fine

Beasty · 05-11-2011 6:56pm

jin.ie wrote: »

Well, Bicycles are cars are completely different,

Not so far as the law is concerned in the situation you described in the OP.

There are plenty of laws which could be ignored on the basis that the perpetrator considers no harm is done - AFAIK that is not a valid defence under Irish law

psychward · 05-11-2011 7:00pm

Beasty wrote: »

There are plenty of laws which could be ignored on the basis that the perpetrator considers no harm is done - AFAIK that is not a valid defence under Irish law

Theres also plenty of scumbag politicians and developers walking around who the law doesn't seem to cover or apply to either even though serious harm was done. I worry that people quoting laws which affect only the small guy like it was the word of God are leading us further along the road to a nanny state.

CramCycle · 05-11-2011 7:06pm

psychward wrote: »

Theres also plenty of scumbag politicians and developers walking around who the law doesn't seem to cover or apply to either even though serious harm was done. I worry that people quoting laws which affect only the small guy like it was the word of God are leading us further along the road to a nanny state.

MOD VOICE: STAY ON TOPIC, PLEASE. THESE LAWS AFFECT EVERYONE WHO RIDES A BIKE, LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG PEOPLE AND AVERAGE PEOPLE PLEASE DO NOT DRAG THIS THREAD OFF TOPIC.

Bicycle fines for running a red light?

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