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Bicycle fines for running a red light?

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    mediwheel wrote: »
    What ever their called they dont work when you cycle over them.

    You have to cycle on the line (where the coil is) and it will only work with a steel bike, a modern carbon bike probably won't set it off. Hence why I gave the second bit of advice (advice not legal fact, you'd want to check this out with someone who has a definite yes/no on this).

    Stop, wait and if clear that the lights will not change proceed with caution as if it is a stalled light. Basically I was saying don't barrel through it just because you think it won't change based on previous experience. Stop, look, listen and if the light will not/does not change proceed with caution, if the Gardai are there you can ask them if it's OK to do this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    CramCycle wrote: »
    There are dedicated cycle lane lights on the road from Nutgrove shopping centre to Terenure, unfortunately, they are often actually off the road and cycle track and often in line with pavements, silly light planning people.
    I had to go to Nutgrove a few weeks ago, and I went along Grange Road and Nutgrove Avenue. Is the route with the dedicated lights a different route? I didn't notice any that day, but I got off the cycle lane promplty because it had parked cars on it and it wasn't very conducive to performing the final right turn into the shopping centre.

    If that's not the route with the lights, is the route you're talking about a good route? I might be playing guitar in the Food Hall there again, so it would be good to know the best route.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    mediwheel wrote: »
    What ever their called they dont work when you cycle over them.

    As I said we have a situation in this country where several generations of traffic engineers have been training several generations of cyclists to ignore traffic lights.

    Problem is how do we address this? I am personally sympathetic to the view that cyclists should be permitted to treat them as stop signs in certain circumstances.

    However there will be no pressure to change the law so long as the Guards look the other way. So it is in my interest to see the law enforced as this might then lead to a wider debate and diacussion by cyclists who will then be systematically inconvenienced. At the moment a proportion systematically break the law which plays right into the hands of our enemies in the media, civil service and other institutions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,735 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    CramCycle wrote: »
    You see them all over the place in Dublin, they are the black rectangles you see on the ground before a white line at a traffic lights.

    A steel bike will set them off if you cycle over the line and leave your bike along it.
    Yeah, they're all over the place, mostly where minor roads meet major roads. I have a steel bike and I can trigger all the ones on my regular routes.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I had to go to Nutgrove a few weeks ago, and I went along Grange Road and Nutgrove Avenue. Is the route with the dedicated lights a different route? I didn't notice any that day, but I got off the cycle lane promplty because it had parked cars on it and it wasn't very conducive to performing the final right turn into the shopping centre.

    If that's not the route with the lights, is the route you're talking about a good route? I might be playing guitar in the Food Hall there again, so it would be good to know the best route.

    They are actually where the two roads meet, but you have to not only come off the road but also the cycle track which randomly ends, they are in conjunction with the pedestrian lights.

    They do in fact invite people to break the law because they ask you to cross pedestrian crossings when they are green and are off the road and track giving the impression you should be on the pavement.

    Do not use them, when I said route I meant they are on that road section, its not a separate route, sorry for the confusion.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 31,001 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    There is a junction on the north quay in Dublin where the ped light on the far side of the junction goes green the instant the light goes red. Around Parliament St, not sure. Maybe all lights do that, but the junction is so wide that cycling in the wet at normal traffic speeds means it is unsafe to stop on amber (for fear of coming off or getting rear-ended) yet you don't get over the ped crossing until it's gone green.

    I know in theory that you should proceed at a speed at which you can stop if the light changes, but this would mean going slower than the rest of the traffic which is in itself dangerous as it invites crazy overtakes.

    I thought the law was that you have to get past the stop line on the near side of the junction before the light goes red, and that it was legal to go through the ped green in this circumstance.

    Can anyone clarify?


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 74,773 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Lumen wrote: »

    I thought the law was that you have to get past the stop line on the near side of the junction before the light goes red, and that it was legal to go through the ped green in this circumstance.

    Can anyone clarify?
    From the ROTR
    An amber light means that you must not go beyond the stop line or, if there is no stop line, beyond the light. However, you may go on if you are so close to the line or the light when the amber light first appears that stopping would be dangerous.

    I guess it means that you consider the "danger" when the light first turns amber - if you are unable to safely stop before it then changes to red you are allowed to proceed


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,001 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Beasty wrote: »
    I guess it means that you consider the "danger" when the light first turns amber - if you are unable to safely stop before it then changes to red you are allowed to proceed

    Thanks, that's what I thought. So presumably it's not illegal in itself to go through a ped crossing on green, although obviously that doesn't remove duty of care and if you hit someone you'd have some explaining to do.

    edit: at the junction I'm thinking of a slower cyclist could enter the junction on a green light and still intersect the ped crossing on a green man.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,462 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    psychward wrote: »
    In the states at least in San Fran I seem to remember cars could turn a corner slowly even if there was a red light but always had to give right of way.

    turn right on red is the best rule ever. America's only worthwhile contribution to the automotive world as Clarkson put it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    turn right on red is the best rule ever. America's only worthwhile contribution to the automotive world as Clarkson put it.

    I agree it's a good rule and along the same practical principles I see no harm in cyclists not behaving like unthinking robots when they encounter a red light in Dublin. Many times theres no difference between a cyclist rounding a corner carefully and walking the corner and then disembarking again on the other side of the corner. Unfortunately like in the rest of life the idiots and the careless ruin it for everyone else.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 570 ✭✭✭Oldlegs


    turn right on red is the best rule ever. America's only worthwhile contribution to the automotive world as Clarkson put it.

    "Right Turn on Red" is great. But I wonder would the "4-way stop" ever have a chance here in Ireland. It would be great to try it for a few weeks just to see the antics of competing drivers :D

    For anyone not familiar with the concept. It is basically a crossroad junction where ALL have to stop. If multiple drivers are at the junction you take it in turns to pass through. Works if every one plays by the rules. Chaos otherwise.

    Also gives rise to the concept of a "rolling stop" where if traffic is light you may not want to come to a complete stop, so you slow down, have a quick look and continue on. Great place to pick up a few traffic tickets :o


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,462 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Oldlegs wrote: »
    "Right Turn on Red" is great. But I wonder would the "4-way stop" ever have a chance here in Ireland.

    there is one on Killiney hill road behind Ballybrack village (south Dublin) that's been in place just over a year. It sorta works but not very well as people are just not familiar enough with it.

    I'm sure there are others around too...
    Also gives rise to the concept of a "rolling stop" where if traffic is light you may not want to come to a complete stop, so you slow down, have a quick look and continue on. Great place to pick up a few traffic tickets

    Flashing amber in all directions should be used at night at junctions, again that's what the US do in places and it means you're not needlessly sitting there for 1 minute or two in the middle of the night.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭peteb2


    eh does no one recall the case that was in the paper a few months ago where the cyclist broke the lights, and i think he ended up going over the bonnet of a car. But the cyclist ended up losing his drivers licence as a result!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    peteb2 wrote: »
    eh does no one recall the case that was in the paper a few months ago where the cyclist broke the lights, and i think he ended up going over the bonnet of a car. But the cyclist ended up losing his drivers licence as a result!!

    cyclist_i_609006t.jpg

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/injured-cyclist-gets-driving-ban-for-breaking-red-light-2228117.html

    I think you're talking about this fellow.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭Head The Wall


    The "cheaper than sleeping pills" comment is funny in that article


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭dvntie


    jin.ie wrote: »
    It's illegal to cycle on footpaths too? well I always thought it was normal to just cycle on when the road was clear. who reads the rules of the road when you're a cyclist? I really miss the metro..
    Having cycled in Dublin for years and knocked off many a time by daft drivers, I'd happily drive on if this muppet ran a red light in front of me
    Gives cyclists a bad name.


  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Hope you get fined i'm fed up like a lot of people are with cyclists doing what they like.Good to see a Guard doing his job and the fact you can't afford to pay well.... think about it next time.Good on you Guard.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward



    In the article he says he was talking to a ''barrister friend''

    More legal aid bills for the taxpayer ?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,339 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    dvntie wrote: »
    Having cycled in Dublin for years and knocked off many a time by daft drivers, I'd happily drive on if this muppet ran a red light in front of me
    Gives cyclists a bad name.

    MOD VOICE: No threats of violence towards anyone in this thread, next one to threaten or hint at such behaviour is out of here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭superrdave


    psychward wrote: »
    In the article he says he was talking to a ''barrister friend''

    More legal aid bills for the taxpayer ?


    His appeal was on 17th February this year (http://courts.ie/legaldiary.nsf/c5ab88e8abed0b7f80256e54003e4f4e/9d4f5f925d1fc15f802578390044a400?OpenDocument) but I don't know how he got on....


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  • Site Banned Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭paddyandy


    Put Plenty of Law and Order on the streets and i'll get a bike myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭wannabe7a


    I got stopped this morning as well. Was going through a red pedestrian crossing light after the pedestrians had gone. Cycled slowly through the red light (in my defense). I got away with a warning but next time it will be the court.

    Does anybody know what the fine will be for going through red light?

    ps. my opinion is that there should be different degrees of fines for going through red.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    wannabe7a wrote: »
    my opinion is that there should be different degrees of fines for going through red.
    Depending on the shade of red or some other criteria?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,261 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    Believe it's usually around €200


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    We'll get nowhere with this issue until Gardai have the power to issue on-the-spot fines for a variety of offences, including a pile of things that peds do as well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    seamus wrote: »
    We'll get nowhere with this issue until Gardai have the power to issue on-the-spot fines for a variety of offences, including a pile of things that peds do as well.

    Especially for littering. I hate people who don't take responsibility for their own mess and they seem to be fearless because nothing seems to happen to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,237 ✭✭✭mcmoustache


    Do collected fines go to the State's coffers or are the takings ring-fenced in some way?

    If they go to the State, it could be a bit of a money spinner if they ramped up enforcement but the fines would need to imposed on the spot for it to be worthwhile. I don't think that the fines would cover the costs of the legal procedings in the current setup.

    A proper clampdown wouldn't be long changing people's behaviour. I'd say that most people on bikes believe that they don't need to stop at red and can ride on footpaths. A high-profile clampdown would wake them up, at least for a while.

    I yearn for the day when I can be the smug bastard who stopped at red while seeing some gob****e getting a stern talking to by a gárda.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭psychward


    I'd say that most people on bikes believe that they don't need to stop at red and can ride on footpaths.

    Well the question is do we want to encourage people to use bikes or not. in Germany and many other countries you can often ride on the footpath and they will paint a cycle lane onto even a narrow path and people just learn to get out of the way or stay on their side of the path. The one way traffic system makes bikes even harder to use in Dublin City Centre. I don't see why people can't cycle across Grafton Street for example to cut across one way systems. I think pedestrians and cyclists should learn how to share the same space and that the fines should go towards the reckless idiots but not to everyone as some people do take care and adjust their speed appropriately. I often cycle across Grafton Street and if I see a baby buggy, a crowd of people or someone old I slow down to a stop and push the bicycle gently with my feet while sitting on it. The last thing I want is some drama or a guilty conscience. I don't want to see laws and fines go against common sense and hit someone who is pushing along with his feet at a snails pace but yes hit the idiots hard.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭galwaycyclist


    Do collected fines go to the State's coffers or are the takings ring-fenced in some way?

    If they go to the State, it could be a bit of a money spinner if they ramped up enforcement but the fines would need to imposed on the spot for it to be worthwhile. I don't think that the fines would cover the costs of the legal procedings in the current setup.

    This is part of the problem in Ireland. In the US the traffic fines go to the local county so the county police are paying their own wages by collecting traffic infringements.

    Here the Guards have jobs for life either way and the fines go to central government.

    Different sets of motivations


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    I'd like to thank the OP for this thread, some of it is comedy gold. :D
    jin.ie wrote: »
    Since when do you go to court for going through a red light??
    jin.ie wrote: »
    Yes but since when do cyclists always follow the same rules as motorists?
    jin.ie wrote: »
    If the path is clear you go, do you stop for every single red light?
    jin.ie wrote: »
    who reads the rules of the road when you're a cyclist?


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