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Bicycle fines for running a red light?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,024 shannon_tek


    looksee wrote: »
    I went across a road with the 'green man' yesterday and a cyclist went across the crossing in front of me, so I had to stop to let him pass. He did not appear to be aware of the crossing, the lights, or the fact that there were people approaching him.

    Ive noticed that cyclists dont give two craps. just cycle into a crowd of ppl specially o connell area


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,422 ✭✭✭ worded


    +1. Laws for the little man.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 1,227 rp


    irish-stew wrote: »
    Are you referring to cycling on ahead, or stopping at the advance stop line/cyclebox. I always do the later regardless if theres a box or not. Purly because i dont want some 3 axel truck crushing me as he turns left, or being caught up in accelerating traffic before I speed up again.
    Not to mention having to sit there behind those yokes, sucking in the fumes. bleugh!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭✭ Jawgap


    First, you were 41 minutes late for a proper Friday thread.

    Second, running red lights is pretty much one of those rules that need to be actually observed.

    Third, running red lights at this time of the year (just as the clocks go back) is a bit mental considering this is when the Guards launch their annual jihad against red light jumping, ninja, salmon cyclists using the foodpads. It's extra-mental to do it in the city centre where there are loads of Guards.

    Finally, my genuine sympathy for getting caught. I think all you can do at this stage is hope the Guard has better things to do than summons you and if you get summonsed wear a nice suit and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity - and hope you are not part of a long list of cyclists to come before a cranky district judge looking to make some examples.

    Good luck


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭ tomasrojo


    Kadongy wrote: »
    In some cases it seems anal to apply red light law to bicycles:
    • Lights at a junction where a bicycle is turning left.
    • Lights at a T-junction where a bicycle is going on and the connecting road is to the right.

    I can definitely see some merit in giving cyclists an exemption on the first point. On the second, I'd prefer if cyclists didn't proceed through. If another cyclist is coming through the green light and is off to the left of the main traffic stream (as most are), it can put the light-breaking cyclist and the cyclist with right of way on a collision course.

    I guess in either case, if they were to be legally allowed, cyclists going through the red light should have to behave as at a Stop sign. Red-light jumpers as things stand almost never behave in this way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,774 ✭✭✭ markpb


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I can definitely see some merit in giving cyclists an exemption on the first point. On the second, I'd prefer if cyclists didn't proceed through. If another cyclist is coming through the green light and is off to the left of the main traffic stream (as most are), it can put the light-breaking cyclist and the cyclist with right of way on a collision course.

    Flashing amber lights for the cycle lanes should/would solve that problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,589 ✭✭✭✭ tomasrojo


    markpb wrote: »
    Flashing amber lights for the cycle lanes should/would solve that problem.
    The only cycle lanes with dedicated lights, as far as I know, are on the new Grand Canal facility, which, again, as far as I know, hasn't opened yet.

    I don't see them investing in dedicated lights for all cycle lanes. And most roads (I think) still don't have cycle lanes of any kind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,892 Head The Wall


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    I can definitely see some merit in giving cyclists an exemption on the first point.

    They should only be allowed turn left at a red light only if there is no traffic coming from their right but this being Ireland they will pull out in front of oncoming traffic regardless. I think it's good that this law is in place.

    I have seen it in the states and it works well because of the amount of police on the roads and they do pick people up for the smallest things so people know not to take the piss too much, unlike here!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 psychward


    In the states at least in San Fran I seem to remember cars could turn a corner slowly even if there was a red light but always had to give right of way.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    ROK ON wrote: »
    As regards the ops original query re ROTR, I think he is correct. Many cyclists don't believe them. I was at an event last week where about 20-30 cyclists ignored every traffic light frOm Dublin City Centre to Nth Co Dublin. One of them was a mod here :-)

    If your on about the dying Light, were there other mods there? I remember stopping at lights as a few participants rolled on through, I did amber gamble on one as there were a few people right on my rear wheel and I had already crossed the white line. So stopping wasn't safe at the time.
    tomasrojo wrote: »
    The only cycle lanes with dedicated lights, as far as I know, are on the new Grand Canal facility, which, again, as far as I know, hasn't opened yet.

    I don't see them investing in dedicated lights for all cycle lanes. And most roads (I think) still don't have cycle lanes of any kind.

    There are dedicated cycle lane lights on the road from Nutgrove shopping centre to Terenure, unfortunately, they are often actually off the road and cycle track and often in line with pavements, silly light planning people.


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  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 62,191 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Beasty


    sheamo f wrote: »
    Do us a favour and don't post silly stuff that you know is wrong
    6 posts and you're already telling other posters what to do. As the Captain has already said, if you have a problem with a post, report it and leave it for the mods to deal with

    Thanks

    Beasty


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭✭ jin.ie


    Jawgap:
    First, you were 41 minutes late for a proper Friday thread.

    Second, running red lights is pretty much one of those rules that need to be actually observed.

    Third, running red lights at this time of the year (just as the clocks go back) is a bit mental considering this is when the Guards launch their annual jihad against red light jumping, ninja, salmon cyclists using the foodpads. It's extra-mental to do it in the city centre where there are loads of Guards.

    Finally, my genuine sympathy for getting caught. I think all you can do at this stage is hope the Guard has better things to do than summons you and if you get summonsed wear a nice suit and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity - and hope you are not part of a long list of cyclists to come before a cranky district judge looking to make some examples.

    Good luck

    Thanks for the advice, firstly just need to be more careful, stop at more red lights, and be safer ( I will still go on if there is absolutely no one around) ye this time of year the Gards seem to have nothing better to do.

    But I did notice a few more lights where I went by on green and the other side had already changed, so I'm not seeing things. Right so all I can do is wait and see, although of my friends have laughed at the idea of being summonsed.

    ps Thanks Beasty, let the mods decide
    6 posts and you're already telling other posters what to do. As the Captain has already said, if you have a problem with a post, report it and leave it for the mods to deal with

    Thanks
    Beasty

    pps I do stop for pedestrians at the crossings, I'm not that bad


  • Registered Users Posts: 716 ✭✭✭ Arthurdaly


    I was about to say lesson learned but obviosly not! When there is a red light you stop and adhere to the rules of the road not plough through when you think its safe.

    Cyclist deserve a bad rep in my opinion, as far as I can see there is a very small percentage adhere to the rules.

    Why would you think it is ok to move through a red light? Gonna start doing that in your car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,208 HivemindXX


    jin.ie wrote: »
    But I did notice a few more lights where I went by on green and the other side had already changed, so I'm not seeing things.

    Just to clarify, you claim to have seen multiple junctions recently where both directions have the green light at the same time is this correct?


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭✭ jin.ie


    I was about to say lesson learned but obviosly not! When there is a red light you stop and adhere to the rules of the road not plough through when you think its safe.

    Cyclist deserve a bad rep in my opinion, as far as I can see there is a very small percentage adhere to the rules.

    Why would you think it is ok to move through a red light? Gonna start doing that in your car?

    Well, Bicycles are cars are completely different, bikes are more manoeuver-able, you can hear everything that goes on around you, if I walked across the road with my bike would it make it any better?
    so for example if it was late at night and there was no one on the road, who not go ahead? who cares???
    and no I wouldn't do it in a car, because that is more dangerous and in a car I wouldn't act the same as on a bike.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 62,191 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Beasty


    The OP said he went through a yellow, which is permissible if it is not safe to stop before the lights

    He also admitted to breaking reds on other occasions, which is clearly illegal, but not what he said happened on this occasion

    So I see 3 scenarios -

    1. Fine for breaking a red light - Yes.
    2. Fine for breaking a yellow light when it is safe to stop - Yes
    3. Fine for breaking a yellow light when it is not safe to stop - No

    Given there is judgement involved in determining whether or not it is safe to stop on yellow, and it's usually a split second decision, I suspect it would be difficult to prove and therefore enforce a fine in situation 2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭✭✭ jin.ie


    HivemindXX
    Just to clarify, you claim to have seen multiple junctions recently where both directions have the green light at the same time is this correct?

    Ye I seen one for certain, around Ranelagh, went through on green and passing the junction on my left the lights had already turned, luckily the cars didn't go out
    3. Fine for breaking a yellow light when it is not safe to stop - No
    No one will believe that anyway right? so I guess it would be always number 2, and how much would that be? he said a small fine


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 62,191 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭ Beasty


    jin.ie wrote: »
    Well, Bicycles are cars are completely different,
    Not so far as the law is concerned in the situation you described in the OP.

    There are plenty of laws which could be ignored on the basis that the perpetrator considers no harm is done - AFAIK that is not a valid defence under Irish law


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 psychward


    Beasty wrote: »
    There are plenty of laws which could be ignored on the basis that the perpetrator considers no harm is done - AFAIK that is not a valid defence under Irish law

    Theres also plenty of scumbag politicians and developers walking around who the law doesn't seem to cover or apply to either even though serious harm was done. I worry that people quoting laws which affect only the small guy like it was the word of God are leading us further along the road to a nanny state.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    psychward wrote: »
    Theres also plenty of scumbag politicians and developers walking around who the law doesn't seem to cover or apply to either even though serious harm was done. I worry that people quoting laws which affect only the small guy like it was the word of God are leading us further along the road to a nanny state.

    MOD VOICE: STAY ON TOPIC, PLEASE. THESE LAWS AFFECT EVERYONE WHO RIDES A BIKE, LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG PEOPLE AND AVERAGE PEOPLE PLEASE DO NOT DRAG THIS THREAD OFF TOPIC.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭ galwaycyclist


    jin.ie wrote: »

    Ye I seen one for certain, around Ranelagh, went through on green and passing the junction on my left the lights had already turned, luckily the cars didn't go out

    Yes that is entirely possible. While I cannot support people breaking red lights to cycle through pedestrian crossings it is the case that for years Irish traffic engineers have been ignoring the presence of cyclists in traffic. (So Irish traffic engineers have been training cyclists to ignore red lights)

    In the case you describe, it is possible that the engineers responsible neglected to give cyclists enough "intergreen" time to clear the junction before the lights changed on the crossing arm.

    The moral for cyclists being don't ever assume green lights are any protection either.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,187 psychward


    Sorry to have given you more work. I will learn to stay on topic. My comment about little people arose from a perception that a lot of those people who throw the book at cyclists never actually ride a bike themselves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,298 ✭✭✭✭ Jawgap


    CramCycle wrote: »
    MOD VOICE......

    Need to work on it - get it to sound more like this from Captain Havoc Scarlet......



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭✭ mediwheel


    Anyone that breaks a red light is looking for trouble ! Even though i am guilty of it myself !
    As i work shift work including early morning starts at weekends and bank holidays etc. i come across many sets of traffic lights that do not change to green unless a car approaches and i am left with no choice but to break the lights or wait until a car comes along ! So really sometimes cyclists are forced to break the rules of the roads ?????


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,815 ✭✭✭ doozerie


    jin.ie wrote: »
    Well, Bicycles are cars are completely different, bikes are more manoeuver-able, you can hear everything that goes on around you, if I walked across the road with my bike would it make it any better?

    Yes, bikes are more manoeuverable, but that doesn't mean that the person riding the bike is capable of manoeuvering the bike well, quickly, and/or safely. And yes, on a bike you can hear everything that goes on around you, but that doesn't mean you'll pay any attention to it. You might believe that every traffic accident that occurs is because one party simply didn't see the other, but in my experience many of the near accidents I've had have been because the other party saw me but chose to ignore the fact as it was far more convenient for them to not acknowledge my presence.
    jin.ie wrote:
    so for example if it was late at night and there was no one on the road, who not go ahead? who cares???
    and no I wouldn't do it in a car, because that is more dangerous and in a car I wouldn't act the same as on a bike.

    I've had this discussion with people before. They argue that they'd go through a pedestrian crossing on red, while cycling, if there were no pedestrians around because "it's safe". When asked if they'd do the same in a car they reply that no, because that would be dangerous to the pedestrians. But there are no pedestrians present, I say, you say this yourself in the scenario you described. "But there might be", they say. Yeah, but you said they weren't there at all and that's why it's safe to go through on a bike. "But they might turn up while going through in a car", they say. Then I cry.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    mediwheel wrote: »
    Anyone that breaks a red light is looking for trouble ! Even though i am guilty of it myself !
    As i work shift work including early morning starts at weekends and bank holidays etc. i come across many sets of traffic lights that do not change to green unless a car approaches and i am left with no choice but to break the lights or wait until a car comes along ! So really sometimes cyclists are forced to break the rules of the roads ?????

    I work nights as well, 2 solutions to the non changing lights are as follows:

    1. Get a steel bike and ride over the induction coil to trigger the lights, it will take no longer than a car.

    2. Wait, for a reasonable degree of time (I am not sure what this degree should be), when there is no sign of change (ie a cycle of lights without yours turning), you can call this a stalled traffic light and proceed with caution as if it were a stop sign (told to me by a Garda and someone on boards). Write then to your local council to complain that the light system does not recognise bicycles, maybe suggest a button for those with bikes to expensive to set off the induction coil.

    Apologies if I am wrong, I'm sure someone here knows for certain if this is OK/legal?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭✭ mediwheel


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I work nights as well, 2 solutions to the non changing lights are as follows:

    1. Get a steel bike and ride over the induction coil to trigger the lights, it will take no longer than a car.

    2. Wait, for a reasonable degree of time (I am not sure what this degree should be), when there is no sign of change (ie a cycle of lights without yours turning), you can call this a stalled traffic light and proceed with caution as if it were a stop sign (told to me by a Garda and someone on boards). Write then to your local council to complain that the light system does not recognise bicycles, maybe suggest a button for those with bikes to expensive to set off the induction coil.

    Apologies if I am wrong, I'm sure someone here knows for certain if this is OK/legal?
    I am 6"2" and not skinny ! Pressure mats dont trigger the lights when i cycle over them ! Have never seen a induction coil ?? Well not in Dublin anyhow !! Might start towing my car behind me ??!!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭ Doom


    jin.ie wrote: »
    Sorry if this has come up before but I couldn't find it.

    Ok so today was cycling back as normal and while going through Camden street, I got pulled over by a Garda because I went through a yellow light although he says red because the pedestrians lights had turned green already.

    Anyway he took my details threatening to take my bike if they were false, and said I would receive a summons! Since when do you go to court for going through a red light?? He also mentioned a fine, being a poor student I can't afford to pay a fine.

    Just to say I've gone through plenty of red lights since I do be in a hurry to get home in the rain and cold but a summons is a bit extreme.
    If anyone has been in a previous situation I'd like to know what happened to them.
    Thanks


    You're going to be a organ doner soon


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,070 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CramCycle


    mediwheel wrote: »
    I am 6"2" and not skinny ! Pressure mats dont trigger the lights when i cycle over them ! Have never seen a induction coil ?? Well not in Dublin anyhow !! Might start towing my car behind me ??!!

    Pressure mats? Never seen them on the road.

    See here for what I was on about.

    You see them all over the place in Dublin, they are the black rectangles you see on the ground before a white line at a traffic lights.

    A steel bike will set them off if you cycle over the line and leave your bike along it. If you have heavy hubs and the coil is very near the surface it may also work.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 55 ✭✭✭ mediwheel


    CramCycle wrote: »
    Pressure mats? Never seen them on the road.

    See here for what I was on about.

    You see them all over the place in Dublin, they are the black rectangles you see on the ground before a white line at a traffic lights.

    A steel bike will set them off if you cycle over the line and leave your bike along it. If you have heavy hubs and the coil is very near the surface it may also work.
    What ever their called they dont work when you cycle over them.


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