Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

Mr Alan · 18-10-2011 09:09AM

I didn't see any hard questions?

Ush1 · 18-10-2011 09:10AM

I think one thing beyond all the racism stuff, Evra and Suarez are two birds of a feather from what I've seen of them. They both deserve each other.

Evra has many times said inciting comments before or after a game, probably during also. Suarez is another wind up merchant, pulling Rafaels hair etc...

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 09:11AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I didn't see any hard questions?

you're choosing not to see them.

K-9 · 18-10-2011 09:11AM

The "what would Evra gain" type quotes are also accusing Suarez of lying, if we want to go down the hypocrisy route! "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" type stuff.

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 09:13AM

K-9 wrote: »

The "what would Evra gain" type quotes are also accusing Suarez of lying, if we want to go down the hypocrisy route! "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" type stuff.

What?

How can anyone be accusing Suarez of lying, as far as I know he hasn't said anything about the incident.

I never beat my wife.

K-9 · 18-10-2011 09:16AM

Des wrote: »

What?

How can anyone be accusing Suarez of lying, as far as I know he hasn't said anything about the incident.

I never beat my wife.

He has completely denied it on Twitter, officially.

So this "what would Evra again?" stuff is saying he's lying.

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 09:18AM

K-9 wrote: »

He has completely denied it on Twitter, officially.

So this "what would Evra again?" stuff is saying he's lying.

Ah fair enough, I don't use Twatter, andif I did I doubt I'd follow Little Louis.

I still don't get how it's mkaing him out to be aliar.

It's still one man's word against another, I've seen no proof that Suarez didn't do it.

MaceFace · 18-10-2011 09:18AM

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

The allegations may never be proven but that doesn't mean Evra is lying. Unless Evra comes out and says it or there is clear evidence that he made it up he shouldn't be banned, it would be a dangerous precedent.

Liverpool should have also commented on what would be done if found to be true.

Look back thru the thread re the tweets, easily found.

Have asked what Evra had to gain by saying this? He went to the ref after the match and complained.

I looked back at least 10 pages and can not a reference to who from Liverpool tweeted about this. Maybe I missed. Can you advise?

As for what he has to gain - how about trying to justify his silly antics on the pitch? Who knows though, but none of this should be in the papers - it should have been reported with quietly until the result was known. Instead he makes accusations that it doesn't look like he will be able to back up with proof and we are all okay with that?

rarnes1 wrote: »

I would say discrimination against skin colour and sexual orientation is wrong and should not be accepted.

However, English cúnt or Paddy Bástard imo, would be part and parcel. Or indeed French príck. Maybe the word was frog..

Why is one okay and the other not?

Didn't our own Roy Keane use some colourful words to describe Mick McCarthy which would be construed as racist? (he called him an English ****). That was supposedly okay but change English for black and then your scum of the earth?

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 09:20AM

MaceFace wrote: »

I looked back at least 10 pages and can not a reference to who from Liverpool tweeted about this. Maybe I missed. Can you advise?

Some one who works for the club tweeted lies about Evra, then tried to cover his tracks saying "Ah it was a trick, you all failed", childish stuff really.

Actually, speaking of lies, there has been only one proven liar in all of this so far, and he is not employed by Manchester United.

That says something to me.

K-9 · 18-10-2011 09:21AM

Des wrote: »

Ah fair enough, I don't use Twatter, andif I did I doubt I'd follow Little Louis.

I still don't get how it's mkaing him out to be aliar.

It's still one man's word against another, I've seen no proof that Suarez didn't do it.

Been posted here several times too.

Nobody knows what happened is exactly the point so I'm out!

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 09:23AM

Of course Suarez denied it, he's hardly going to come out and say "Yes everybody, it's true, I'm a big racist":D:D

amiable · 18-10-2011 09:30AM

Des wrote: »

I've seen no proof that Suarez didn't do it.

I've seen no proof that Evra did receive any kind of racism

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 09:31AM

amiable wrote: »

I've seen no proof that Evra did receive any kind of racism

...and here we are.

amiable · 18-10-2011 09:32AM

Des wrote: »

Of course Suarez denied it, he's hardly going to come out and say "Yes everybody, it's true, I'm a big racist":D:D

Well he's hardly going to admit it if he hasn't done it.
''Yes i'll take the heat and admit it because i'd hate to see Evra get in trouble'':D:D

amiable · 18-10-2011 09:33AM

Des wrote: »

...and here we are.

Indeed Des. Here we are

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 09:33AM

amiable wrote: »

Well he's hardly going to admit it if he hasn't done it.
''Yes i'll take the heat and admit it because i'd hate to see Evra get in trouble'':D:D

You don't understand my point, or are deliberately misinterpreting it. You people do that a lot. Alan was at the same craic before he wussed out.

amiable · 18-10-2011 09:46AM

Des wrote: »

You don't understand my point, or are deliberately misinterpreting it. You people do that a lot. Alan was at the same craic before he wussed out.

Maybe it's time you acknowledged(because we know you realise) that until Liverpool fans see evidence of this alleged racism that in general we just don't believe it.

Mr Alan · 18-10-2011 09:46AM

Des wrote: »

Actually, speaking of lies, there has been only one proven liar in all of this so far, and he is not employed by Manchester United.

That says something to me.

If thats the route you want to go down, Manchester United employees have form for inventing racist allegations & were found to have lied in order to land that label onto an employee of a rival club.

Here we go again eh :rolleyes:

amiable wrote: »

I've seen no proof that Evra did receive any kind of racism

And this is the crux of it.

No proof exists, despite the accuser stating catagorically that there is solid proof of the racist abuse in existence. Hence my calling him a liar. If proof materialises, I'll be first to hold my hands up, say I rushed to judgement based on the the Utd/Liverpool thing & apologise to Evra. However, that's not going to happen, because in my view, he is lying.

If I go to the police & say, "I was assaulted & have solid undeniable proof that I was", and then it turns out there was no proof in existence, I'll be laughed out of the station.

Same thing should happen with Evra & the fact that he ran to the worlds media & said this proof existed thereby forever tarnishing Suarez's reputation should mean that he faces serious consequences for his allegations which were at best frivilous & at worst, an intentional attempt to label a rival player a racist.

I agree that me rushing to judgement could be deemed "hypocrisy", but there is a couple of things on my side.

1) The burden of proof lies with the accuser.
2) I am not a professional athlete who is bound by FA rules etc.

If Dirk Kuyt had been on twitter saying the things I've been saying, I agree that he should face a ban if the allegations were indeed shown to be true.

Des wrote: »

Alan was at the same craic before he wussed out.

I wussed nowhere, I was walking up to work.

Nalz · 18-10-2011 10:15AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

If thats the route you want to go down, Manchester United employees have form for inventing racist allegations & were found to have lied in order to land that label onto an employee of a rival club.

Here we go again eh :rolleyes:

And this is the crux of it.

No proof exists, despite the accuser stating catagorically that there is solid proof of the racist abuse in existence. Hence my calling him a liar. If proof materialises, I'll be first to hold my hands up, say I rushed to judgement based on the the Utd/Liverpool thing & apologise to Evra. However, that's not going to happen, because in my view, he is lying.

If I go to the police & say, "I was assaulted & have solid undeniable proof that I was", and then it turns out there was no proof in existence, I'll be laughed out of the station.

Same thing should happen with Evra & the fact that he ran to the worlds media & said this proof existed thereby forever tarnishing Suarez's reputation should mean that he faces serious consequences for his allegations which were at best frivilous & at worst, an intentional attempt to label a rival player a racist.

I agree that me rushing to judgement could be deemed "hypocrisy", but there is a couple of things on my side.

1) The burden of proof lies with the accuser.
2) I am not a professional athlete who is bound by FA rules etc.

If Dirk Kuyt had been on twitter saying the things I've been saying, I agree that he should face a ban if the allegations were indeed shown to be true.

I wussed nowhere, I was walking up to work.

Man you're loving this thread... I bet you're hopping off the F5 button every nano second!

Racism is bad, falsely accusing someone of racism is bad, Evra and Suarez are disliked by a good few people so they're bad, FA won't do anything to Evra if there is no evidence so that would be bad, FA might go easy on Suarez if he is found guilty which would be bad... all and all i think this is bad!

Mr Alan · 18-10-2011 10:18AM

Can you not bring yourself to go as far as saying that telling the worlds media solid evidence exists to support his claims of racism exist when in actual fact it doesn't, is bad?

18-10-2011 10:19AM

MaceFace wrote: »

Why is one okay and the other not?

Didn't our own Roy Keane use some colourful words to describe Mick McCarthy which would be construed as racist? (he called him an English ****). That was supposedly okay but change English for black and then your scum of the earth?

I'd say if it was found out that Suarez called Evra a French cúnt there would be a far different reaction to if it was found out he called him a black cúnt for example.

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 10:19AM

All racists should be named and shamed, imo.

nullzero · 18-10-2011 10:20AM

This was never going to be a debate based on the facts.
All we have is Liverpool fans defending Suarez and demanding Evra have " the book thrown at him".

In a discussion between two individuals that is not recorded (only audio would be conclusive) anything can be said and each individual can say anything was said neither party can be proven right or wrong.

The simple fact is that in light of their being no evidence to defend or condem either player no punishment can be handed down to either of them, even if fans of oppossing clubs would like to see something happen to one of their rival players out of some childish notion of "justice".

Suarez could be a massive racist, Evra could be making it all up. No one here knows what happened which leaves us only with opinions which should be taken at face value.

Mr Alan · 18-10-2011 10:22AM

Des wrote: »

All racists should be named and shamed, imo.

I agree.

_blank_ · 18-10-2011 10:23AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

I agree.

FINALLY!!!!

nullzero · 18-10-2011 10:23AM

Des wrote: »

All racists should be named and shamed, imo.

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K-9 · 18-10-2011 10:23AM

Des wrote: »

You don't understand my point, or are deliberately misinterpreting it. You people do that a lot. Alan was at the same craic before he wussed out.

What point? Evra has made a statement, Suarez has categorically denied it, that's it. Anything else is just opinion, why would Evra lie and well, he would say that, wouldn't he? is the same as saying Evra is lying, as it implies Suarez is lying. Or something!

You people ( some United fans) are guilty of the first, them people (some Liverpool fans) guilty of the other.

Then you have eagle eye who sees nothing wrong with anything.

nullzero · 18-10-2011 10:25AM

K-9 wrote: »

What point? Evra has made a statement, Suarez has categorically denied it, that's it. Anything else is just opinion, why would Evra lie and well, he would say that, wouldn't he? is the same as saying Evra is lying, as it implies Suarez is lying. Or something!

You people ( some United fans) are guilty of the first, them people (some Liverpool fans) guilty of the other.

Then you have eagle eye who sees nothing wrong with anything.

Your sig voids any point you try to make here I'm afraid.

Melion · 18-10-2011 10:26AM

Im annoyed i started this thread. On a momentous day for the families of the Hillsborough victims and Liverpool fans all people can post about is Suarez and Evra.

Mr Alan · 18-10-2011 10:28AM

nullzero wrote: »

In a discussion between two individuals that is not recorded (only audio would be conclusive) anything can be said and each individual can say anything was said neither party can be proven right or wrong.

If Evra had just said "he racially abused me & I am going to take the nescessary steps", I would tend to agree with you (while at the same time thinking running to the media was the wrong course of action).

However, Evra told the worlds media that solid evidence exists of this abuse, that is what is being reported in papers & on websites around the world at this minute.

If no such evidence exists, he should be banned.

What he said is enough for Suarez to sue him for libel & the onus would then be on Evra to prove his accusations were true, ie that he was racially abused & it can all be clearly see on camera.

If he is unable to back these claims up, under the British legal system, he is guilty of libel. If its good enough for the British legal system, it should be good enough for the PL/FA.

Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

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