Racism - Mod Note on 1st Post - Read before posting.

nullzero

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Whether you think my analogy is more or less serious than the racist story is irrelevant, your sidesteppign by not answering.

Just to appease you, replace "woman crying rape " with "black guy accused you of calling him a ****** on the danceflorr 10 times" , do you still just laugh it off as your being chucked out on your face with your friends and family (and employers) watching?

For fvcks sake, it was a rhetorical question.
Everyone can underatand basic morality.

I'm not side stepping anything and you know it.

nullzero

rarnes1 wrote: »

Hmmm, I think you are missing the point.Badly.

No I'm not.

I keep having stupid rhetorical questions thrown at me by incensed Liverpool fans.

There is no point to be missed apart from "We support Liverpool so all arguments are invalid".

Guy:Incognito

nullzero wrote: »

For fvcks sake, it was a rhetorical question.
Everyone can underatand basic morality.

I'm not side stepping anything and you know it.

nullzero wrote: »

Christ on a bike.
I couldn't care less what you say to be honest.
.

So is it just Mr.Alan that can call you what he likes and you dont care or does the black guy in the nightclub calling you a racist without any proof get a pass too?

Does basic morality mean you will or wont follow up malicious allegations made against you? Just to clarify.

nullzero

nullzero wrote: »

No I'm not.

I keep having stupid rhetorical questions thrown at me by incensed Liverpool fans.

There is no point to be missed apart from "We support Liverpool so all arguments are invalid".

You're avoiding questions to suit your own agenda.

Nalz

cambo2008 wrote: »

Say I'm in a shop,I see someone I know stealing.
I report it and say "he definitely was,sure it will be on camera".
Turns out it was a blind spot and not picked up on camera.
Should I be charged for dragging the good name of a thief through the dirt.

What kind of shop?

Just kidding... I agree with this post. This is why I'd call Evra a gobshíte and not have the book thrown at him.

But I get its unfair at Suarez if he didnt say anything, the same way it would be unfair at Evra if there is no evidence and he did.

Such is life

Melion

nullzero wrote: »

No I'm not.

I keep having stupid rhetorical questions thrown at me by incensed Liverpool fans.

There is no point to be missed apart from "We support Liverpool so all arguments are invalid".

Nothing rhetorical about it and you know it. You dont want to answer because whatever you say will make you look even more ridiculous than you do now.

nullzero

Melion wrote: »

Answering is easier than avoiding.

Ok.

I would not be happy if somebody made accusations against me that were untrue.

If I was involved in a one to one discussion and accusations were later made I would deny them, but as there is no evidence to back either parties side of the story I would have to accpet that an element of doubt could remain over my character even though it would be undeserved.

nullzero

Melion wrote: »

Nothing rhetorical about it and you know it. You dont want to answer because whatever you say will make you look even more ridiculous than you do now.

It was a rhetorical question. I answered it anyway.

Melion

nullzero wrote: »

Ok.

I would not be happy if somebody made accusations against me that were untrue.

If I was involved in a one to one discussion and accusations were later made I would deny them, but as there is no evidence to back either parties side of the story I would have to accpet that an element of doubt could remain over my character even though it would be undeserved.

Jesus thats nice of you.

Forgive me if i dont believe you would be that calm about the situation in front of all your friends, family and work colleagues.

nullzero

rarnes1 wrote: »

You're avoiding questions to suit your own agenda.

Avioding answering qustions with obvious answers?
Do you need that much help filling in the balnks?

Here's a similar question for you... 2+2=?

Could you clarify what my agenda is?

Mr Alan

cambo2008 wrote:

Should I be charged for dragging the good name of a thief through the dirt.

First off, if he was found innocent, he's not a thief.

No, you shouldn't be charged by the police if you were simply mistaken.However, if prior to the investigation commencing you went to the media and told them your story, inclusive of the fact there was solid proof of guilt.

Yes, you would most likely be & should indeed be punished.
You would be guilty of libel against the accused.

Trilla, he would be a gob****e if he told the FA/PL that evidence existed & it didn't-I agree in that case he shouldn't be punished. Telling the worlds media this is the case is very different to that.

nullzero

Melion wrote: »

Jesus thats nice of you.

Forgive me if i dont believe you would be that calm about the situation in front of all your friends, family and work colleagues.

Your beliefs are none of my concern.
I asnwered the question by addressing the points that were put forward.
As for emotional response? Well anger is a given, are there any other statements of the obvious I should make?

astrofool

Mr Alan wrote: »

First off, if he was found innocent, he's not a thief.

No, you shouldn't be charged by the police if you were simply mistaken.However, if prior to the investigation commencing you went to the media and told them your story, inclusive of the fact there was solid proof of guilt.

Yes, you would most likely be & should indeed be punished.
You would be guilty of libel against the accused.

Trilla, he would be a gob****e if he told the FA/PL that evidence existed & it didn't-I agree in that case he shouldn't be punished. Telling the worlds media this is the case is very different to that.

You see someone steal a chocolate bar, and report it. Turns out that the camera didn't pick it up, and the evidence is gone (eaten).

He will be found innocent. Is he a thief or not?

Melion

nullzero wrote: »

Your beliefs are none of my concern.
I asnwered the question by addressing the points that were put forward.
As for emotional response? Well anger is a given, are there any other statements of the obvious I should make?

And how do you think your family etc would react when they found out there was never any proof?

Will I Amnt

Mr Alan wrote: »

First off, if he was found innocent, he's not a thief.

Thats where we're going to have to disagree,the world doesn't revolve around what's picked up on camera.

nullzero

Melion wrote: »

And how do you think your family etc would react when they found out there was never any proof?

They would be unhappy. Thier emotions would run high. Yes definitely unhappy.

Ush1

nullzero wrote: »

Christ on a bike.
I couldn't care less what you say to be honest.
You're a fantasist as far as I can tell, anything you say is immendiately invalid.
The answer to the questions you asked is obvious and it has no relevance to this discussion.

No, it's actually a perfectly reasonable apt simile he described.

Mr Alan

astrofool wrote: »

You see someone steal a chocolate bar, and report it. Turns out that the camera didn't pick it up, and the evidence is gone (eaten).

He will be found innocent. Is he a thief or not?

Perhaps he paid for said chocolate bar prior to eating it?
Perhaps he paid on the way out?
Perhaps he had it in his pocket & brought it into the shop?

There could be many reasons I thought he was but he wasn't.

This is why if I run to the media, label him a thief & say solid evidence exists, that doesn't. I am guilty of libel & subject to punishment under the british legal system.

Melion

nullzero wrote: »

They would be unhappy. Thier emotions would run high. Yes definitely unhappy.

Yet you have no problem with Evra saying Luis Suarez is a racist so his family, friends, team-mates and supporters see/hear it and still hasnt been able to show any proof?

nullzero

Ush1 wrote: »

No, it's actually a perfectly reasonable apt simile he described.

The question answered itself, it was an exercise in trying to make me contradict myself.

Ush1

nullzero wrote: »

The question answered itself, it was an exercise in trying to make me contradict myself.

The point is one mans reputation is tainted by what may or may not be flippant remarks.

I would say this, if these comments were indeed true then this all should have been done privately rather than publicly and that would come down to Man. united and Evra I presume.

If he is saying that unequivocally I have evidence, not just saying it happened but claiming he can prove it then he damn well better have that evidence is all I'm saying. What if Suarez gets attacked in the streets by people?

nullzero

Melion wrote: »

Yet you have no problem with Evra saying Luis Suarez is a racist so his family, friends, team-mates and supporters see/hear it and still hasnt been able to show any proof?

Yes, I have no problem with it at all.
I understand that evidence is not going to appear for either party.
Both could be right or wrong.
My opinion is that Evra is a possible liar and Suarez is a possible racist.
I don't spend much time worrying about the reputations of millionaire footballers who wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire even if I support the cub they play for.

nullzero

Ush1 wrote: »

The point is one mans reputation is tainted by what may or may not be flippant remarks.

I would say this, if these comments were indeed true then this all should have been done privately rather than publicly and that would come down to Man. united and Evra I presume.

If he is saying that unequivocally I have evidence, not just saying it happened but claiming he can prove it then he damn well better have that evidence is all I'm saying. What if Suarez gets attacked in the streets by people?

What if Suarez gets attacked on the streets?
What if he got hit by a bus?

If a black Liverpool player accused a white United player of racist remarks you'd be screaming fro their blood.
The morality of this topic has nothing to do with the main body of responses, only loyalty to a football club.

Melion

nullzero wrote: »

Yes, I have no problem with it at all.
I understand that evidence is not going to appear for either party.
Both could be right or wrong.
My opinion is that Evra is a possible liar and Suarez is a possible racist.
I don't spend much time worrying about the reputations of millionaire footballers who wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire even if I support the cub they play for.

Well that just nullifies any statement you've made in this thread.

Mr Alan

Ush1 wrote: »

If he is saying that unequivocally I have evidence, not just saying it happened but claiming he can prove it then he damn well better have that evidence is all I'm saying. What if Suarez gets attacked in the streets by people?

This is the crux of it for me.

I'd even go as far as to say if he said he had evidence, that it turned out he didn't have behind the closed doors of a regulatory commission investigating the incident that there should be no punishment, just a warning.

However to run to the worlds media protesting of this cast iron evidence that does not exist is beyond the pale.

newballsplease

Mr Alan wrote: »

What about if someone was squaring up to Steve Sidwell & said, "get out of my face you ginger fool"......that's the same tbh.

However, that's a different conversation, more around the politically correct nature of the society we live in.

FFS abuseing someone on the colour of their hair ISNT racist.

AAAAAGGGHHHHHHH

nullzero

Melion wrote: »

Well that just nullifies any statement you've made in this thread.

No it doesn't.
It's me being consistent.

Ush1

nullzero wrote: »

What if Suarez gets attacked on the streets?
What if he got hit by a bus?

If a black Liverpool player accused a white United player of racist remarks you'd be screaming fro their blood.
The morality of this topic has nothing to do with the main body of responses, only loyalty to a football club.

I don't support either club thanks which is why we can detach that by bringing it away from football and into general life.

Accountability is everything I'm afraid in the vindictive world we live in, you can't just live in bubble gum drop land where everyone should be taken at face value and nobody would use the system to their advantage to be vindictive to someone.

astrofool

Mr Alan wrote: »

Perhaps he paid for said chocolate bar prior to eating it?
Perhaps he paid on the way out?
Perhaps he had it in his pocket & brought it into the shop?

There could be many reasons I thought he was but he wasn't.

This is why if I run to the media, label him a thief & say solid evidence exists, that doesn't. I am guilty of libel & subject to punishment under the british legal system.

I said, you see him steal the bar. Hypothetically, he walks in, stands beside you, puts the bar in his pocket, and walks out, drives away, and never comes back.

Camera doesn't catch him. Is he a thief or not?

_blank_

astrofool wrote: »

I said, you see him steal the bar. Hypothetically, he walks in, stands beside you, puts the bar in his pocket, and walks out, drives away, and never comes back.

Camera doesn't catch him. Is he a thief or not?

It ain't a crime if ya don't get caught, that's how it is homie, like or not.