Class Rep training junket?

Cargin · 11-10-2011 01:43AM

It intrigues me that people against off-site training can be accused of not understanding the function of the S.U. by posters who consistently cite the benefits and popularity of off-site with companies and corporations and a major theme in their counter-argument. Now, I'll admit I didn't Google this, but I had thought that the Student Union was a democratically elected representative body, whose mandate is to represent the student body in the manner of a national assembly on a small scale. It is not, to my knowledge (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) a company or corporation.

Eric Cartman · 11-10-2011 02:46AM

Cargin wrote: »

It intrigues me that people against off-site training can be accused of not understanding the function of the S.U. by posters who consistently cite the benefits and popularity of off-site with companies and corporations and a major theme in their counter-argument. Now, I'll admit I didn't Google this, but I had thought that the Student Union was a democratically elected representative body, whose mandate is to represent the student body in the manner of a national assembly on a small scale. It is not, to my knowledge (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) a company or corporation.

That is a function of the SU, and the class reps are an extension of that function, now there are very few people who could off the bat perform the full capacity of a class rep , I was elected a class rep in first year and told nothing, had no idea what the job was about. I would definitley have benefited from some training. Nobody is in doubt here about the need for training and I think we can all agree on that.

But the problem is , how to effectivley train a bunch of people who are coming from a mixed set of reasons for being a class rep, youll have the people who are dedicated but need to get to know more people in the position for a bit of peer help , the really outgoing people who find the training boring and need to have it bet into them , and the people who start out with good intentions but dont quite realise what the job entails.

To effectivley train those people you need somewhere that has
a) space
b) an enviroment that can be serious work when it needs to be and relaxing the rest of the time
c) a place without a load of distractions going on around you
d) a place where people who do skive off are easily found again
e) a place where trainers/SU Staff are easily accessible and close to the reps to answer any queries

maynooth currently doesnt posess that, the best we could hope for on campus is something equivalent to trying to study in the roost on a thursday night.

perhaps in future when the SU know how it all goes then it will be on campus , but if this training was on campus and failed miserably to get through to all the reps then it would be hard to assess the cause of it , off campus your isolating variables away from the training program so youd get a clearer picture of how it went.

People starting threads like this calling it a junket and handing out propoganda about it certainly doesnt help. This is the first year of the training, lets get a training program sorted in an isolated enviroment and consider how to scale it back from there before shooting it down

pennypocket · 11-10-2011 04:47AM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

To effectivley train those people you need somewhere that has
a) space
b) an enviroment that can be serious work when it needs to be and relaxing the rest of the time
c) a place without a load of distractions going on around you
d) a place where people who do skive off are easily found again
e) a place where trainers/SU Staff are easily accessible and close to the reps to answer any queries

maynooth currently doesnt posess that, the best we could hope for on campus is something equivalent to trying to study in the roost on a thursday night.

So basically you're saying NUI Maynooth has an entirely ineffective training environment. I'm starting to wonder how I ever managed to get a degree and a masters in such a place.

LeixlipRed · 11-10-2011 08:39AM

Guys, I present to you a world class training enironment, worth every penny of the €5,000 euro. It even has speed holes and one training guru comes free with every six purchased. I give you the SPA HOTEL LUCAN. Dun dun dun

http://static.whoseview.com/files/1240516696554IMG1706432741.png

LeixlipRed · 11-10-2011 08:45AM

Actually for a very long time it was just SPA HOTE. The L had fallen off

Liber8or · 11-10-2011 09:25AM

In a funny way I am kinda hoping this Off-campus 'training' festival does take place so that there will be no funding for the most awesomest show on earth... 'The Gathering'... :rolleyes:

Is it just me or when there is an outcry against a representative body doing something, the right thing to do is to have an open forum public debate about the issue? The responsible thing for Rob to do is to post-pone this while the S.U council (and others who want to partake) can have a discussion on the matter, followed by a vote? I know this is a kinda crazy 'lefty' ideologically driven idea, but we could give it a go... Democracy and all that.

Just to note: Student's are in college to have fun and get a qualification. If they help people along the way that is no harm, but they are here for a good time - not corporate training. Most representatives join up so they can A) Help and

Build on their CV. Put the 5000 euro into buying little certificates for Reps when they complete the year. Use the 5000 euro to verify they contributed to student life throughout the year and then award them with a certificate at the end. That will get students involved because it is then incentivised.

How so Joe · 11-10-2011 09:30AM

Not being funny here, but union council is mostly made up of the people who are supposed to be trained this weekend - probably a lot of them aren't entirely sure what union council is or does...

Seren_ · 11-10-2011 10:17AM

How so Joe wrote: »

Not being funny here, but union council is mostly made up of the people who are supposed to be trained this weekend - probably a lot of them aren't entirely sure what union council is or does...

It's not hard to find out what Union Council is for/does though. I've never been a class rep, I Just read how it worked in the constitution. Surely they could all do that too.

LeixlipRed · 11-10-2011 11:02AM

Petitioning underway for next couple of hours in Arts Block, anyone who can help is welcome or pop along and sign if you support the cause!

LeixlipRed · 11-10-2011 12:25PM

In one hour we collected another 150 signatures, I had to leave but we were closing on 300 signatures.

The SU Constitution states that we can hold a Union General Meeting which can over-ride any decisions made by the SU if we can get the signatures of 10% of the student body.
Does anyone know what that 10% is? How many signatures would we have to get?

the_observer · 11-10-2011 12:33PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

In one hour we collected another 150 signatures, I had to leave but we were closing on 300 signatures.

The SU Constitution states that we can hold a Union General Meeting which can over-ride any decisions made by the SU if we can get the signatures of 10% of the student body.
Does anyone know what that 10% is? How many signatures would we have to get?

I think there's somewhere in the neighbourhood of 8500 students, so 850.

LeixlipRed · 11-10-2011 12:36PM

Achievable. I've sent Rob a mail to ask anyone, will post up his response.

LeixlipRed · 11-10-2011 12:47PM

We need 800 signatures to force a vote on this thing, confirmed by Rob! Anyone who has some spare time to help out or who wants to sign the petition just let me know. I can email people the petition and they can print and distribute the petitions. Even if you don't agree wholeheartedly with us, this campaign can at least whole the SU democratically accountable. And if people vote against us that's completely fair!

How so Joe · 11-10-2011 02:52PM

Your Text Here wrote: »

It's not hard to find out what Union Council is for/does though. I've never been a class rep, I Just read how it worked in the constitution. Surely they could all do that too.

Yeah, but if they do that, do they get their free hoodie?

Eric Cartman · 11-10-2011 03:44PM

pennypocket wrote: »

So basically you're saying NUI Maynooth has an entirely ineffective training environment. I'm starting to wonder how I ever managed to get a degree and a masters in such a place.

Your being selective with how your reading my post , Maynooth does not have a training enviroment in which 100+ people can be isolated from everyone else in the college without outside distractions.

This training is not like normal lectures, theres no penalty for not showing up , theres no incentive to show up , your not going to fail an exam if you skive off all day...

and Id love to believe students were all well and good and the best people for the job will be elected and everyone would attend, but the uptake in people wanting to be class rep after hearing about this training off site would suggest that the worst case scenario of some people just doing it for the drinks etc.. is true. Even if the SU only spent 500 euro on training on site and some of these people did skive off youd all be the very people to protest about 'where did our money go, these reps dont know anything'

Kinski · 11-10-2011 03:47PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This training is not like normal lectures, theres no penalty for not showing up , theres no incentive to show up , your not going to fail an exam if you skive off all day...

There's a penalty for not showing up at lectures? Half of my English undergrad class went all the way through their degrees without discovering that...

Eric Cartman · 11-10-2011 03:53PM

Kinski wrote: »

There's a penalty for not showing up at lectures? Half of my English undergrad class went all the way through their degrees without discovering that...

in general not showing up to lectures will yield lower results, the penalty is your future and possibly failing exams

Kinski · 11-10-2011 03:57PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

in general not showing up to lectures will yield lower results, the penalty is your future and possibly failing exams

Doesn't change the fact that half of them were never there.

Eric Cartman · 11-10-2011 04:07PM

Kinski wrote: »

Doesn't change the fact that half of them were never there.

All that says is that students will definitley skive off if kept on campus , and apparantly it doesnt take a lot to pass undergrad english

Kinski · 11-10-2011 04:11PM

It doesn't take a lot to pass it, no. This is why pass degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on.

I don't actually have strong feelings either way about the hotel issue; I was just making that one point!

Eric Cartman · 11-10-2011 04:16PM

Kinski wrote: »

It doesn't take a lot to pass it, no. This is why pass degrees aren't worth the paper they're written on.

I don't actually have strong feelings either way about the hotel issue; I was just making that one point!

fair enough , well i would equate the training of reps more to material science than undergrad english whoch is why its to the detriment of the students if a rep skives off, they cant just pull it off the top of their head

Kinski · 11-10-2011 04:31PM

Tbh I wonder if we need class reps at all.

K4t · 11-10-2011 05:01PM

Kinski wrote: »

Tbh I wonder if we need class reps at all.

Answer = We don't.

Kinski · 11-10-2011 06:29PM

Actually, since there are going to be class reps, if this training is as information intensive as is being made out, then I wonder how much anyone will absorb over the course of a couple of days. Couldn't you just skip the training and supply them all with a well-laid out and clear printed handbook, telling them to study it in their own time? Then they could consult the relevant information as issues are brought to them.

You can corral people together in a hotel, or you can hold training sessions on campus, but even if you make attendance compulsory, you can't force info into their heads. Comparisons with lectures or professional training just don't work. If someone doesn't do their coursework, they fail. If someone doesn't take job training seriously, they get fired. But if someone doesn't adequately fulfil their role as class rep, what happens? Er, maybe someone might complain, or they might not get the position again if they choose to run in subsequent years. But so few students vote in these things I'd argue that noone really cares.

Eric Cartman · 11-10-2011 06:37PM

Kinski wrote: »

Actually, since there are going to be class reps, if this training is as information intensive as is being made out, then I wonder how much anyone will absorb over the course of a couple of days. Couldn't you just skip the training and supply them all with a well-laid out and clear printed handbook, telling them to study it in their own time? Then they could consult the relevant information as issues are brought to them.

You can corral people together in a hotel, or you can hold training sessions on campus, but even if you make attendance compulsory, you can't force info into their heads. Comparisons with lectures or professional training just don't work. If someone doesn't do their coursework, they fail. If someone doesn't take job training seriously, they get fired. But if someone doesn't adequately fulfil their role as class rep, what happens? Er, maybe someone might complain, or they might not get the position again if they choose to run in subsequent years. But so few students vote in these things I'd argue that noone really cares.

im sure a manual/guidebook is part of the training , but helping to develop these reps skills at dealing with problems, working with people and connecting with SU staff aswell as having examples played out in person or doing hypothetical situation roleplay would definitley be beneficial to the reps

Kiwi_knock · 11-10-2011 06:51PM

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Your being selective with how your reading my post , Maynooth does not have a training enviroment in which 100+ people can be isolated from everyone else in the college without outside distractions.

This training is not like normal lectures, theres no penalty for not showing up , theres no incentive to show up , your not going to fail an exam if you skive off all day...

and Id love to believe students were all well and good and the best people for the job will be elected and everyone would attend, but the uptake in people wanting to be class rep after hearing about this training off site would suggest that the worst case scenario of some people just doing it for the drinks etc.. is true. Even if the SU only spent 500 euro on training on site and some of these people did skive off youd all be the very people to protest about 'where did our money go, these reps dont know anything'

If the training is held on the weekend on the campus will this not cut down on the distractions, from my experience the campus will be pretty dead at this time of the year.

If you can not trust people to turn up for a training weekend due to other distractions how can you expect them to turn up to Union Council during the week when there will be so many other distractions.

declan06 · 11-10-2011 08:23PM

LeixlipRed "And the other stuff was me implying that you lot are nothing better than politicians"
Because all politicians are bad, obviously, we don't need them, let's just run the country based on the communal manifesto

So do we have a few interested class reps or a lot of uninterested ones? I'm leaning to the first

If I was doing it, I would have held training in the evening, free pizza and a free drink in the SU, Like the one which was held 5 years ago(yes I'm old)

The Junket might work

Wasn't Nision Banquo's campaign manager?

MaynoothParty "an extortionate amount of money to sit around their offices having tea before they go into politics" They are paid minimum wage and do a large amount of work, you don't know what your talking about!

Being called naive by a member of the SWP is perhaps the funniest thing I've heard all week

Here's my political compass: http://www.politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-8.62&soc=-5.74

But yes, I'm a member of Labour Youth and proud to support MDH for president.

And turns out I won't be going on this junket because I don't have the time.

After reading these 18 pages of hot air and circular arguments, I truly don't care any more.

LeixlipRed · 11-10-2011 09:47PM

Well it's good some people still care, 400 and counting is the latest tally

I'm trying to find out if we can have an online petition that students could sign in addition to the physical petition so I'll let you know on here.

Tomorrow we're starting in the Arts Block at 11am, if anyone could come down and help that'd be fantastic. We just don't have the numbers of people collecting signatures to make it a formality quite yet! And please come and sign if you haven't already.

Also, if anyone wants to distribute the petition themselves PM me and I can email it to you, you can collect the signatures and I can pick them up off you! Thanks!

eogriffin · 11-10-2011 10:17PM

That's 11am, I know Leixlip Red is a boards sluh but that doesn't mean he's always right

.

@Declan06; A member of Labour Youth laughing at anyone's political leanings is beyond hilarious. "Gilmore for Taoiseach" anyone? Unbelievable hunger to be in government no matter who was on offer to make up the numbers.

Amazed by the response from your average Joe student!

Kinski · 11-10-2011 10:30PM

eogriffin wrote: »

@Declan06; A member of Labour Youth laughing at anyone's political leanings is beyond hilarious. "Gilmore for Taoiseach" anyone? Unbelievable hunger to be in government no matter who was on offer to make up the numbers.

O/T: Labour Youth spoke out against the formation of a coalition with FG. And yet there they are. Maybe Labour Youth are all out protesting about the govt's policies now. But I doubt it. Maybe the youth wing is like some kind of decontamination chamber - you remain in it until you're purged of impurities, then you can enter the real party. You know, the one for grown-ups.

Class Rep training junket?

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