Are We Spanish or at least cousins

HavingCrack · 20-09-2011 10:23pm

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Really. I thought we came from Turks.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7009643.ece

That article appears slightly misleading to be honest. Is it suggesting people migrated directly from Turkey to Ireland? Seems a bit fanciful.

If it's s suggesting that the general human migration into Europe from Asia/Africa began via Turkey I would say that they're on more solid ground.

ejmaztec · 20-09-2011 10:24pm

So that's why some people call me a fucking basquard.

fontanalis · 20-09-2011 10:25pm

HavingCrack wrote: »

Since everyone keeps saying why don't we have tanned skin and brown eyes etc like Spanish people, have you ever been to northern Spain eg the Basque Region, Galicia etc? An awful lot of people there have fair skin and light brown/blonde hair, quite similar to a lot of Irish people. If you watch football Fernando Torres and Xabi Alonso are fairly good examples of what they look like.

To be honest though, it's unlikely we're as close as that (very out of date) study makes. The vast majority of Irish genes come from the original settlers of the island and despite successive invasions by Vikings, Normans, English etc. the gene pool has not been radically altered. We're genetically closer to Scottish, Welsh and to a slightly lesser extent English people than anyone else I would imagine.

There is a Y DNA Haplogroup called I2a2a (the name changed recently so I amy have it wrong) that is found in high numbers in men with the surnames
O'Driscoll and O'Grady and that is thought to be the oldest in Ireland. The R1b expansion in the Bronze Age is thought to be driven by the spread of farming.

steddyeddy · 20-09-2011 10:28pm

fontanalis wrote: »

There is a Y DNA Haplogroup called I2a2a (the name changed recently so I amy have it wrong) that is found in high numbers in men with the surnames
O'Driscoll and O'Grady and that is thought to be the oldest in Ireland. The R1b expansion in the Bronze Age is thought to be driven by the spread of farming.

Theres further evidence on the farming front. The irish have some of the lowest levels of lactose intolerance in the world suggesting we have been drinking milk longer than most cultures.

fontanalis · 20-09-2011 10:30pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

Theres further evidence on the farming front. The irish have some of the lowest levels of lactose intolerance in the world suggesting we have been drinking milk longer than most cultures.

Then of course you have the ceide fields which are about 5,500 years old.

SharpshooterTom · 20-09-2011 10:40pm

We are from the human race. Irishness is a concept not a race. We'll fail to live proper multiracial/multicultural society if we keep on thinking like this.

fontanalis · 20-09-2011 10:40pm

Gnobe wrote: »

We are just human.

But are we dancer?

Kidchameleon · 20-09-2011 10:42pm

In Spain this year I was watching a flamenco dancing show and I have to say there where more than a few similarities to Irish dancing

fontanalis · 20-09-2011 10:43pm

Gnobe wrote: »

We are from the human race. Irishness is a concept not a race. We'll fail to live proper multiracial/multicultural society if we keep on thinking like this.

Who said anythign about race; nationality and identity are seperate form race.

pragmatic1 · 20-09-2011 10:48pm

Gnobe wrote: »

We are from the human race. Irishness is a concept not a race. We'll fail to live proper multiracial/multicultural society if we keep on thinking like this.

Actually its an ethnicity and theres nothing wrong being proud of your culture.

pragmatic1 · 20-09-2011 10:50pm

HavingCrack wrote: »

That article appears slightly misleading to be honest. Is it suggesting people migrated directly from Turkey to Ireland? Seems a bit fanciful.

If it's s suggesting that the general human migration into Europe from Asia/Africa began via Turkey I would say that they're on more solid ground.

We must be reading different articles. There was nothing to suggest that Turkish people migrated directly from Turkey to Ireland in the one I read.

Spread · 20-09-2011 11:06pm

The Daily Mail

Spaniards originated in Ireland

The Daily Mail today learned the shock findings of a group of anthropoligists. The Spanish really do come from Ireland. Speaking, after having an agreable siesta Senor Don Quixote admitted that he always felt Irish "especial Irish womens when they come holiday in Espana. Zose milky white thighs, firm bumbums and the ripen melones. And zhey always speak no ....... until I puts some Spanish Fly in her Irish Coffee. Just two leetle drops and, how you say, ....... Roberto is your mother's brother. Continued page 3

Spread · 20-09-2011 11:08pm

Kidchameleon wrote: »

In Spain this year I was watching a flamenco dancing show and I have to say there where more than a few similarities to Irish dancing

Exactly how many drinks/pills had you taken?

revell · 20-09-2011 11:32pm

4leto wrote: »

No in comparison our food is dreadful.

You are what you eat!;)

enfant terrible · 20-09-2011 11:38pm

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Is it unusual for an Irish person to have brown hair and brown eyes?

LH Pathe · 20-09-2011 11:42pm

enfant terrible wrote: »

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Is it unusual for an Irish person to have brown hair and brown eyes?

and skin.. almost the same golden brown tone in general - I call it mono-chrome. it's the only thing I'm attracted to. very rare here you could argue colin Farrell had it, but I'll settle for his sis

Cossax · 20-09-2011 11:52pm

steddyeddy wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that neanderthals were the original inhabitants of the island.

There has, to the best of my knowledge, never been any evidence of neanderthals inhabiting Ireland. Would have been heavily glaciated when they were still extant.

Mickeroo · 20-09-2011 11:56pm

I have dark auburn hair and brown eyes, I tan reasonably well, my brother tans better and has jet black hair. All my uncles on mum's have black hair and tan very dark.

I was in a shop in temple bar a couple of years ago browsing when one of the employees came over to me and just started talking spainish to me, I told him I don't speak spainish, he apologised and said he was sure I was spanish from the way I looked so there must me some truth to it! Can't say I think I look all that exotc myself though

It's generally accepted Ireland's supposed celtic heritage is a myth afaik.

markesmith · 21-09-2011 12:56am

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origins-British-Genetic-Detective-Story/dp/1845294823/ref=pd_sim_b1

Reading this at the moment...definitely a Spanish connection with us, and I think you can see it even more on the west coast...

fontanalis · 21-09-2011 1:00am

markesmith wrote: »

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origins-British-Genetic-Detective-Story/dp/1845294823/ref=pd_sim_b1

Reading this at the moment...definitely a Spanish connection with us, and I think you can see it even more on the west coast...

I read that aswell but it's way out of date (the dating of Rib is now considered younger), it's more or less ignored in the field. Very few books are being written on the topic as the science is progressing, if you're interested on the topic blogs would be the best place.
A more up to date book would be this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Scots-Genetic-Journey-Alistair-Moffat/dp/1841589411/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316563160&sr=8-1

fontanalis · 21-09-2011 1:00am

Mickeroo wrote: »

I have dark auburn hair and brown eyes, I tan reasonably well, my brother tans better and has jet black hair. All my uncles on mum's have black hair and tan very dark.

I was in a shop in temple bar a couple of years ago browsing when one of the employees came over to me and just started talking spainish to me, I told him I don't speak spainish, he apologised and said he was sure I was spanish from the way I looked so there must me some truth to it! Can't say I think I look all that exotc myself though

It's generally accepted Ireland's supposed celtic heritage is a myth afaik.

Celtic was only ever a linguistic label.

Bannasidhe · 21-09-2011 1:19am

According to the 9th century Historia Brittonum Ireland was settled by at least 3 differnt groups from Spain or more properly Iberia. It claims we are descended from the sons of Mil Espáine (aka Milesius/Miled/\Miledh) who defeated the De Danann.

The 11th century Lebor Gabála Érenn or Book of Invasions also says the Gaels came to Ireland from Spain.

In the 12th century Gerald of Wales went to pains to make the link between Iberia and Hibernia.

Many 16th century Elizabethan commentators wrote about the origins of the Irish being in Spain - including Edmund Spenser.

All claim this happened around 4,000 BCE.

The idea of the Irish being Celts (who were of central European origin) really only became popular in the early 19th century.

The blonde/Red hair is a legacy of the Vikings.
There were not enough survivors of the Armada to make a significant impact on our DNA.

Modern Spanish are descended from the various tribal groups who migrated there after the fall of the western Roman empire c 5th century.

So technically the Gaelic Irish are descended from Iberians - not Spaniards.

Chuck Stone · 21-09-2011 1:29am

I probably have nordic genes because I'm fair haired, blue eyed, and am partial to a bit of ol' rape and pillage.

Cossax · 21-09-2011 1:37am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

According to the 9th century Historia Brittonum Ireland was settled by at least 3 differnt groups from Spain or more properly Iberia. It claims we are descended from the sons of Mil Espáine (aka Milesius/Miled/\Miledh) who defeated the De Danann.

The 11th century Lebor Gabála Érenn or Book of Invasions also says the Gaels came to Ireland from Spain.

In the 12th century Gerald of Wales went to pains to make the link between Iberia and Hibernia.

Many 16th century Elizabethan commentators wrote about the origins of the Irish being in Spain - including Edmund Spenser.

All claim this happened around 4,000 BCE.

The idea of the Irish being Celts (who were of central European origin) really only became popular in the early 19th century.

The blonde/Red hair is a legacy of the Vikings.
There were not enough survivors of the Armada to make a significant impact on our DNA.

Modern Spanish are descended from the various tribal groups who migrated there after the fall of the western Roman empire c 5th century.

So technically the Gaelic Irish are descended from Iberians - not Spaniards.

Gaels = Milesians.

Red hair is most common in the world in Ireland and Scotland AFAIK, not sure there's any Nordic link there.

Bannasidhe · 21-09-2011 1:51am

Cossax wrote: »

Gaels = Milesians.

Red hair is most common in the world in Ireland and Scotland AFAIK, not sure there's any Nordic link there.

Huge connections.

The Western Scots - Highlands and Islands - are descended from Gaelic Irish from Ulster (the Dál Riada) who colonised it in the confusion after the fall of Rome (Ireland at the time was called Scotia after the daughter of Mil and its inhabitants 'Scots') and first Norse then Danish Vikings - so huge Nordic link there.

First towns in Ireland (Dublin, Cork, Waterford, Limerick) were of Norse foundation - they intermarried with Gaelic Irish. So huge Nordic connection again. The name McAuliffe for example means son of Olav.

The galloglasses who moved to Ireland in the 13th/14th centuries were Scots from the western isles (Scot Gaelic + Norse/Danish) - they in turn married Gaelic Irish women. Another connection to Nordic countries. Names like MacSweeney are galloglass.

Plus - the Normans were Norsemen who settled in France, intermarried with Gauls. The first wave of Normans who came to Ireland had intermarried with the Welsh (all the Fitz's, D'Arcys, de Lacys etc) - so another Nordic connection.
The 2nd wave of Normans had intermarried with Saxons and married Gaelic Irish when they came over with Prince John (all the Burkes, Butlers etc). Another connection.

The red hair is from the 2nd wave of Danish viking attacks - them what Brian Boru defeated at Clontarf.
The Danes took over northern England - the area becoming known as the Danelaw.

Cossax · 21-09-2011 2:18am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Huge connections.

The Western Scots - Highlands and Islands - are descended from Gaelic Irish from Ulster (the Dál Riada) who colonised it in the confusion after the fall of Rome (Ireland at the time was called Scotia after the daughter of Mil and its inhabitants 'Scots') and first Norse then Danish Vikings - so huge Nordic link there.

First towns in Ireland (Dublin, Cork, Waterford, Limerick) were of Norse foundation - they intermarried with Gaelic Irish. So huge Nordic connection again. The name McAuliffe for example means son of Olav.

The galloglasses who moved to Ireland in the 13th/14th centuries were Scots from the western isles (Scot Gaelic + Norse/Danish) - they in turn married Gaelic Irish women. Another connection to Nordic countries. Names like MacSweeney are galloglass.

Plus - the Normans were Norsemen who settled in France, intermarried with Gauls. The first wave of Normans who came to Ireland had intermarried with the Welsh (all the Fitz's, D'Arcys, de Lacys etc) - so another Nordic connection.
The 2nd wave of Normans had intermarried with Saxons and married Gaelic Irish when they came over with Prince John (all the Burkes, Butlers etc). Another connection.

The red hair is from the 2nd wave of Danish viking attacks - them what Brian Boru defeated at Clontarf.
The Danes took over northern England - the area becoming known as the Danelaw.

I'm aware of Ireland's Nordic links, I've never seen anything to suggest these links are responsible for red hair in Ireland - in fact a quick wiki seems to suggest the Romans saw plenty of red hair in Scotland.

Bannasidhe · 21-09-2011 2:22am

Cossax wrote: »

I'm aware of Ireland's Nordic links, I've never seen anything to suggest these links are responsible for red hair in Ireland - in fact a quick wiki seems to suggest the Romans saw plenty of red hair in Scotland.

Romans never occupied Scotland and really would only have encountered the Lowland Picts about whom little is known- and to be honest Wiki is not the most reliable source.

Sorry - I though you meant no Nordic link with Ireland and Scotland.

Cossax · 21-09-2011 2:28am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Romans never occupied Scotland and really would only have encountered the Lowland Picts about whom little is known- and to be honest Wiki is not the most reliable source.

Sorry - I though you meant no Nordic link with Ireland and Scotland.

Well it references Tacitus' The Life of Agricula - I ain't reading it to confirm but seems reasonable to me.

Being from Limerick, it's hard not to know about those links!

fontanalis · 21-09-2011 2:35am

Bannasidhe wrote: »

According to the 9th century Historia Brittonum Ireland was settled by at least 3 differnt groups from Spain or more properly Iberia. It claims we are descended from the sons of Mil Espáine (aka Milesius/Miled/\Miledh) who defeated the De Danann.

The 11th century Lebor Gabála Érenn or Book of Invasions also says the Gaels came to Ireland from Spain.

In the 12th century Gerald of Wales went to pains to make the link between Iberia and Hibernia.

Many 16th century Elizabethan commentators wrote about the origins of the Irish being in Spain - including Edmund Spenser.

All claim this happened around 4,000 BCE.

The idea of the Irish being Celts (who were of central European origin) really only became popular in the early 19th century.

The blonde/Red hair is a legacy of the Vikings.
There were not enough survivors of the Armada to make a significant impact on our DNA.

Modern Spanish are descended from the various tribal groups who migrated there after the fall of the western Roman empire c 5th century.

So technically the Gaelic Irish are descended from Iberians - not Spaniards.

The Book of Invasions is pure myth and an attempt to link ruling families to biblical stories.
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/originstories.shtml
Celtic is a linguistic term, some river names on the continent are meant ot be celtic in origin.

Bannasidhe · 21-09-2011 2:37am

Cossax wrote: »

Well it references Tacitus' The Life of Agricula - I ain't reading it to confirm but seems reasonable to me.

Being from Limerick, it's hard not to know about those links!

Ah Tacitus - he also claimed Agricola invaded Ireland and reckoned he could conquer the island with one legion and a few auxiliaries so...

Anyhoo, all this is a red herring (boom boom!) and nothing to do with whether the Irish originated on the Iberian peninsula.

Are We Spanish or at least cousins

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