Are We Spanish or at least cousins

Gunnerkid

Came across this articale its a little outdated but fairly interesting what do you rekon are we more Spanish, Portuguese then Celtic:


The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?
DECEMBER 29, 2006 · 56 COMMENTS
Scientists have concluded that the Celts did not invade Ireland en masse, nor did they replace an earlier group.

Despite the widely held belief that the Irish are descended from Celts who invaded Ireland about 2,500 years ago, a 2004 genetic research study at Trinity College, Dublin (TCD) appears to argue against it.


The Celtic cultural heritage in Ireland is prolific and informs the common perceptions and beliefs about the national identity and its origins. From traditional cultural sources in language, legend and literature the Celtic influence is strong and can also be found in contemporary culture such as Enya and the Afro Celt Sound System. The research however suggests that our blood if not also some (at least) of our culture can or should be attributed to wider origins: Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia and North Africa.

The study, conducted by Dr. Dan Bradley and Brian McEvoy, a Ph.D student conducted this genetic study with the support of the Irish government to determine “whether there was a large incursion by Celtic people 2,500 years ago” as is widely believed.

The scientists compared the DNA samples of 200 volunteers from around Ireland with a genetic database of 8,500 individuals from around Europe. (The Celts came from Central Europe stretching as far as Hungary).

They found that the Irish samples matched those around Britain and the Pyrenees in Spain. There were some matches in Scandinavia and parts of North Africa.

The scientists concluded that ‘the Irish’ genetic makeup stems from the onset of an ice-age around 15,000 years ago that forced prehistoric man back into Spain, Italy and Greece, which were still fairly temperate. When the ice started melting again around 12,000 years ago, people followed the retreating ice northwards as areas became hospitable again.

The TCD study produced a map of Europe with contours linking places that are genetically similar. One contour goes around the edge of the Atlantic touching Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and includes Galicia in Spain as well as the Basque region.

Some archaeologists also doubt that there was a Celtic invasion because few of their artifacts have been found in Ireland.

“The primary genetic legacy of Ireland seems to have come from people from Spain and Portugal after the last ice age.†said McEvoy. “They seem to have come up along the coast through Western Europe and arrived in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It’s not due to something that happened 2,500 years ago with Celts.†We have a much older genetic legacy.

The findings are published in The American Journal of Human Genetics at the University of Chicago.

Does this finally help explain the ‘dark Irish’ phenomenon?



Link to the page:http://killarney-ireland.info/genealogy/dark-irish-celt-genealogy.html

Mr Benevolent

Buenos ding dong diddly dias.

Siuin

If we are the cousins of our Latino neighbours, I think it's fairly safe to say who got the good genes...!

solerina

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

woodoo

Gunnerkid wrote: »

Came across this articale its a little outdated but fairly interesting what do you rekon are we more Spanish, Portuguese then Celtic:


The Irish – more Spanish than Celtic?
DECEMBER 29, 2006 · 56 COMMENTS
Scientists have concluded that the Celts did not invade Ireland en masse, nor did they replace an earlier group.

Despite the widely held belief that the Irish are descended from Celts who invaded Ireland about 2,500 years ago, a 2004 genetic research study at Trinity College, Dublin (TCD) appears to argue against it.


The Celtic cultural heritage in Ireland is prolific and informs the common perceptions and beliefs about the national identity and its origins. From traditional cultural sources in language, legend and literature the Celtic influence is strong and can also be found in contemporary culture such as Enya and the Afro Celt Sound System. The research however suggests that our blood if not also some (at least) of our culture can or should be attributed to wider origins: Spain, Portugal, Scandinavia and North Africa.

The study, conducted by Dr. Dan Bradley and Brian McEvoy, a Ph.D student conducted this genetic study with the support of the Irish government to determine “whether there was a large incursion by Celtic people 2,500 years ago” as is widely believed.

The scientists compared the DNA samples of 200 volunteers from around Ireland with a genetic database of 8,500 individuals from around Europe. (The Celts came from Central Europe stretching as far as Hungary).

They found that the Irish samples matched those around Britain and the Pyrenees in Spain. There were some matches in Scandinavia and parts of North Africa.

The scientists concluded that ‘the Irish’ genetic makeup stems from the onset of an ice-age around 15,000 years ago that forced prehistoric man back into Spain, Italy and Greece, which were still fairly temperate. When the ice started melting again around 12,000 years ago, people followed the retreating ice northwards as areas became hospitable again.

The TCD study produced a map of Europe with contours linking places that are genetically similar. One contour goes around the edge of the Atlantic touching Wales, Scotland, Ireland, and includes Galicia in Spain as well as the Basque region.

Some archaeologists also doubt that there was a Celtic invasion because few of their artifacts have been found in Ireland.

“The primary genetic legacy of Ireland seems to have come from people from Spain and Portugal after the last ice age.†said McEvoy. “They seem to have come up along the coast through Western Europe and arrived in Ireland, Scotland and Wales. It’s not due to something that happened 2,500 years ago with Celts.†We have a much older genetic legacy.

The findings are published in The American Journal of Human Genetics at the University of Chicago.

Does this finally help explain the ‘dark Irish’ phenomenon?



Link to the page:http://killarney-ireland.info/genealogy/dark-irish-celt-genealogy.html

Yeah there was a program on that about 2 years ago. They went to Connemara and took DNA of some locals. It seems to be true particularly in the west of Ireland.

The_Kew_Tour

If we were any bit Spanish we but fecking great at Soccer

Gunnerkid

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

I have brown hair, brown eyes and a good tan, than again I was born in Puerto Rico :D

Computer Sci

Not really, we don't look anything like the Spanish.

Shanotheslayer

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

You described me and I'm Irish

woodoo

Its less Spanish and more Basque they found.

MagicMarker

Me casa suck assa.

lcrcboy

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Im Irish and thats exactly how I look, although I have often been asked if I'm foreign maybe my parents have some explaining haha

Computer Sci

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Well put, most Irish people have pale skin with light (blue or green) eyes and usually brown hair with a few people having black/ red and blonde hair.

westendgirlie

I am dark skinned, brown hair but blue eyes and parents are from the west. But always put skin tone down to the Spanish Armada invading

Cossax

I think it's commonly accepted that we are closely related to the Basques and that we are probably the original inhabitants of the island. Seems that we just look on an Indo-European language/culture through trade/contact with Britain and mainland Europe - people today see the sea as some sort of barrier to communication when thousands of years ago it was the sea that was the highway along which goods travelled most quickly, cheaply and safely.

fontanalis

The article is 5 years old and way out of date. The DNA claim was that we shraed the same male lineage as people from the Basque region who have a seperate identity and a very different language (unrelated to any other language in the world).
The study relied on the DNA marker being about 18,000 years old but advances since then has put it much younger, about 9 months after the Blood of the Irish tv show a new discovery this new discovery made where it showed that the bulk of the population arrived in the Bronze Age.
Genetically Irish peope are closest to the British.

BlackRoom

We do look somewhat basque. Think Xabi Alonso, he's basque.

woodoo

fontanalis wrote: »

Showed that the bulk of the population arrived in the Bronze Age.
Genetically Irish peope are closest to the British.

Don't let poor KeithAFC see this or he will be crying into his sash.

lcrcboy

fontanalis wrote: »

The article is 5 years old and way out of date. The DNA claim was that we shraed the same male lineage as people from the Basque region who have a seperate identity and a very different language (unrelated to any other language in the world).
The study relied on the DNA marker being about 18,000 years old but advances since then has put it much younger, about 9 months after the Blood of the Irish tv show a new discovery this new discovery made where it showed that the bulk of the population arrived in the Bronze Age.
Genetically Irish peope are closest to the British.

I think in the scientific community there is still some belief that people from the Basque region crossed over during or before the last Ice age:
Some studies of Basque genetic markers have also suggested the possibility of a connection with Celtic peoples of England, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland.[6][7] The shared markers are suggestive of having passed through a genetic bottleneck during the peak of the last ice age, which would mean the two peoples were in Europe by at least about 17,000 years ago, and probably 45,000 to 50,000 years ago.

Taken from Wikipedia above quote. provided link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Basques

jonnyfingers

I'm dark skinned, brown eyed, and have dark hair. I also went out with a half Spanish girl and sometimes drink San Miguel. Are my genes from Spain?

fontanalis

lcrcboy wrote: »

I think in the scientific community there is still some belief that people from the Basque region crossed over during or before the last Ice age:
Some studies of Basque genetic markers have also suggested the possibility of a connection with Celtic peoples of England, Cornwall, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland.[6][7] The shared markers are suggestive of having passed through a genetic bottleneck during the peak of the last ice age, which would mean the two peoples were in Europe by at least about 17,000 years ago, and probably 45,000 to 50,000 years ago.

Taken from Wikipedia above quote. provided link:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_Basques

About 80% of Irish males share a recent common ancestor with Basque males in the last 6,000 or 10,000 years or so, the only thing is Irish are closer to other populations (the Basques are a further branch on the family tree if you will). The diagram below gives a better idea of the R1b family; P312 is found mainly in Ireland, Britain and the North Sea area but not in the Basque region. Note this is only looking at direct male lines.
The ice age idea has fallen by the way side as it was forst thought R1b was 18,000 years old now it's looking to be less than 10,000. It's now thought that R1b came from the Caspian Sea region, through Turkey and up central Europe.

It's also found in very high levels here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkortostan

DEFTLEFTHAND

Tanned with brown hair and eyes aswell. The aul Spanish Armada boys must of did a bit of damage back in the day eh.

Eve_Dublin

Living in Spain with blonde hair and blue eyes, I blend right in. I am among my people at last! A bit like Steve Martin in The Jerk.

lcrcboy

fontanalis wrote: »

About 80% of Irish males share a recent common ancestor with Basque males in the last 6,000 or 10,000 years or so, the only thing is Irish are closer to other populations (the Basques are a further branch on the family tree if you will). The diagram below gives a better idea of the R1b family; P312 is found mainly in Ireland, Britain and the North Sea area but not in the Basque region. Note this is only looking at direct male lines.
The ice age idea has fallen by the way side as it was forst thought R1b was 18,000 years old now it's looking to be less than 10,000. It's now thought that R1b came from the Caspian Sea region, through Turkey and up central Europe.

It's also found in very high levels here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkortostan

Interesting stuff didn't know about the above more recent findings until now, Ill have to do some more reading into it. For me though Im mixed anyways with my great grandmother originating from spain so luck enough to get a good tan haha

fontanalis

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Tanned with brown hair and eyes aswell. The aul Spanish Armada boys must of did a bit of damage back in the day eh.

They were mostly captured or killed, the Armada story is normally associated with Galway. An anthrphological study was done by Harvard professors back in the 30's where they discovered dark features were more common in Cork and Kerry, bhoiy.

fontanalis

lcrcboy wrote: »

Interesting stuff didn't know about the above more recent findings until now, Ill have to do some more reading into it. For me though Im mixed anyways with my great grandmother originating from spain so luck enough to get a good tan haha

The science snowballed since the first studies. One thing that made big headlines was the discovery of a marker for Niall of the Nine Hostages as it was associated with surnames from the Northwest like Doherty, Gallagher, Boyle, Cannon, Kane etc it's now known to be associated with the Ui Brien dynasty and may be carried by up to 25% of Irish males. Recent discoveries suggest it may have originated in Southern Scotland/Northern England about 1,500 or 2,000 years ago.

The Basques language gives them that bit of mystery, there's a bit more on them here.
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/basques.shtml

pragmatic1

Really. I thought we came from Turks.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7009643.ece

steddyeddy

Cossax wrote: »

I think it's commonly accepted that we are closely related to the Basques and that we are probably the original inhabitants of the island. Seems that we just look on an Indo-European language/culture through trade/contact with Britain and mainland Europe - people today see the sea as some sort of barrier to communication when thousands of years ago it was the sea that was the highway along which goods travelled most quickly, cheaply and safely.

I would hazard a guess that neanderthals were the original inhabitants of the island.

HavingCrack

Since everyone keeps saying why don't we have tanned skin and brown eyes etc like Spanish people, have you ever been to northern Spain eg the Basque Region, Galicia etc? An awful lot of people there have fair skin and light brown/blonde hair, quite similar to a lot of Irish people. If you watch football Fernando Torres and Xabi Alonso are fairly good examples of what they look like.

To be honest though, it's unlikely we're as close as that (very out of date) study makes. The vast majority of Irish genes come from the original settlers of the island and despite successive invasions by Vikings, Normans, English etc. the gene pool has not been radically altered. We're genetically closer to Scottish, Welsh and to a slightly lesser extent English people than anyone else I would imagine.

4leto

No in comparison our food is dreadful.

fontanalis

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Really. I thought we came from Turks.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7009643.ece

Tukey seems to be the entry point into mainland Europe, see the bit beneath the headline Y DNA Haplogroup R1b1b2 below.
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/indoeuropeangenetics.shtml

HavingCrack

pragmatic1 wrote: »

Really. I thought we came from Turks.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article7009643.ece

That article appears slightly misleading to be honest. Is it suggesting people migrated directly from Turkey to Ireland? Seems a bit fanciful.

If it's s suggesting that the general human migration into Europe from Asia/Africa began via Turkey I would say that they're on more solid ground.

ejmaztec

So that's why some people call me a fucking basquard.

fontanalis

HavingCrack wrote: »

Since everyone keeps saying why don't we have tanned skin and brown eyes etc like Spanish people, have you ever been to northern Spain eg the Basque Region, Galicia etc? An awful lot of people there have fair skin and light brown/blonde hair, quite similar to a lot of Irish people. If you watch football Fernando Torres and Xabi Alonso are fairly good examples of what they look like.

To be honest though, it's unlikely we're as close as that (very out of date) study makes. The vast majority of Irish genes come from the original settlers of the island and despite successive invasions by Vikings, Normans, English etc. the gene pool has not been radically altered. We're genetically closer to Scottish, Welsh and to a slightly lesser extent English people than anyone else I would imagine.

There is a Y DNA Haplogroup called I2a2a (the name changed recently so I amy have it wrong) that is found in high numbers in men with the surnames
O'Driscoll and O'Grady and that is thought to be the oldest in Ireland. The R1b expansion in the Bronze Age is thought to be driven by the spread of farming.

steddyeddy

fontanalis wrote: »

There is a Y DNA Haplogroup called I2a2a (the name changed recently so I amy have it wrong) that is found in high numbers in men with the surnames
O'Driscoll and O'Grady and that is thought to be the oldest in Ireland. The R1b expansion in the Bronze Age is thought to be driven by the spread of farming.

Theres further evidence on the farming front. The irish have some of the lowest levels of lactose intolerance in the world suggesting we have been drinking milk longer than most cultures.

fontanalis

steddyeddy wrote: »

Theres further evidence on the farming front. The irish have some of the lowest levels of lactose intolerance in the world suggesting we have been drinking milk longer than most cultures.

Then of course you have the ceide fields which are about 5,500 years old.

SharpshooterTom

We are from the human race. Irishness is a concept not a race. We'll fail to live proper multiracial/multicultural society if we keep on thinking like this.

fontanalis

Gnobe wrote: »

We are just human.

But are we dancer?

Kidchameleon

In Spain this year I was watching a flamenco dancing show and I have to say there where more than a few similarities to Irish dancing

fontanalis

Gnobe wrote: »

We are from the human race. Irishness is a concept not a race. We'll fail to live proper multiracial/multicultural society if we keep on thinking like this.

Who said anythign about race; nationality and identity are seperate form race.

pragmatic1

Gnobe wrote: »

We are from the human race. Irishness is a concept not a race. We'll fail to live proper multiracial/multicultural society if we keep on thinking like this.

Actually its an ethnicity and theres nothing wrong being proud of your culture.

pragmatic1

HavingCrack wrote: »

That article appears slightly misleading to be honest. Is it suggesting people migrated directly from Turkey to Ireland? Seems a bit fanciful.

If it's s suggesting that the general human migration into Europe from Asia/Africa began via Turkey I would say that they're on more solid ground.

We must be reading different articles. There was nothing to suggest that Turkish people migrated directly from Turkey to Ireland in the one I read.

Spread

The Daily Mail

Spaniards originated in Ireland

The Daily Mail today learned the shock findings of a group of anthropoligists. The Spanish really do come from Ireland. Speaking, after having an agreable siesta Senor Don Quixote admitted that he always felt Irish "especial Irish womens when they come holiday in Espana. Zose milky white thighs, firm bumbums and the ripen melones. And zhey always speak no ....... until I puts some Spanish Fly in her Irish Coffee. Just two leetle drops and, how you say, ....... Roberto is your mother's brother. Continued page 3

Spread

Kidchameleon wrote: »

In Spain this year I was watching a flamenco dancing show and I have to say there where more than a few similarities to Irish dancing

Exactly how many drinks/pills had you taken?

revell

4leto wrote: »

No in comparison our food is dreadful.

You are what you eat!;)

enfant terrible

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Is it unusual for an Irish person to have brown hair and brown eyes?

LH Pathe

enfant terrible wrote: »

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Is it unusual for an Irish person to have brown hair and brown eyes?

and skin.. almost the same golden brown tone in general - I call it mono-chrome. it's the only thing I'm attracted to. very rare here you could argue colin Farrell had it, but I'll settle for his sis

Cossax

steddyeddy wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that neanderthals were the original inhabitants of the island.

There has, to the best of my knowledge, never been any evidence of neanderthals inhabiting Ireland. Would have been heavily glaciated when they were still extant.

Mickeroo

I have dark auburn hair and brown eyes, I tan reasonably well, my brother tans better and has jet black hair. All my uncles on mum's have black hair and tan very dark.

I was in a shop in temple bar a couple of years ago browsing when one of the employees came over to me and just started talking spainish to me, I told him I don't speak spainish, he apologised and said he was sure I was spanish from the way I looked so there must me some truth to it! Can't say I think I look all that exotc myself though

It's generally accepted Ireland's supposed celtic heritage is a myth afaik.

markesmith

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origins-British-Genetic-Detective-Story/dp/1845294823/ref=pd_sim_b1

Reading this at the moment...definitely a Spanish connection with us, and I think you can see it even more on the west coast...

fontanalis

markesmith wrote: »

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Origins-British-Genetic-Detective-Story/dp/1845294823/ref=pd_sim_b1

Reading this at the moment...definitely a Spanish connection with us, and I think you can see it even more on the west coast...

I read that aswell but it's way out of date (the dating of Rib is now considered younger), it's more or less ignored in the field. Very few books are being written on the topic as the science is progressing, if you're interested on the topic blogs would be the best place.
A more up to date book would be this one.
http://www.amazon.com/Scots-Genetic-Journey-Alistair-Moffat/dp/1841589411/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316563160&sr=8-1