Are We Spanish or at least cousins

Bannasidhe

fontanalis wrote: »

The Book of Invasions is pure myth and an attempt to link ruling families to biblical stories.
http://www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/originstories.shtml
Celtic is a linguistic term, some river names on the continent are meant ot be celtic in origin.

I would be hesitant to dismiss the Lebor Gabála as pure myth. It is a compilation of prose and poems which contain the origin stories of the Gaelic Irish - it was dismissed for a long time but now scientific advances in DNA support some of the information in it.
Like all origin tales it tends to 'romanticise' ancient origins while also containing some truths -the Old Testament is after all the origin 'myth' of the Jews but some of it has been verified by archaeology.

The story of Troy was also dismissed as pure myth - yet Schliemann found it!

nice_very

more recently than OP's link, I remember reading that we (Irish/Celts) share very similar genetic traits with the Basque people, who themselves, have distinct genes and blood grouping to the "Iberian" people

Pretty_Pistol

I remember Grainne Seoige interviewing someone about this and the guest pointed out that Grainne was an example of the dark haired/eyed Irish from the West that might have a basque connection.

It would be interesting to find out where your genes came from way back.

Isard

nice_very wrote: »

more recently than OP's link, I remember reading that we (Irish/Celts) share very similar genetic traits with the Basque people, who themselves, have distinct genes and blood grouping to the "Iberian" people

Here
Those Basques and their language are an enigma...

breadmonster

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

You described me and I'm Irish

You were adopted - shame you had to find out like this :pac:

enfant terrible

enfant terrible wrote: »

Is it unusual for an Irish person to have brown hair and brown eyes?

Found out it's very rare.

"less than 1 half of 1% have pure brown".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Irish#Hair.2C_skin_and_eye_colour_statistics_in_Ireland

nice_very

Isard wrote: »

Here
Those Basques and their language are an enigma...

thats it! thanks Isard, I lived there for many years, and while they "could" be described by some as spanish, the traditional Basque features are more like our own here than the "spanish"

as an aside, as an Irish person, I was instantly brought into their culture, and looked upon as "one of their own" Gora Euskadi

markesmith

nice_very wrote: »

thats it! thanks Isard, I lived there for many years, and while they "could" be described by some as spanish, the traditional Basque features are more like our own here than the "spanish"

as an aside, as an Irish person, I was instantly brought into their culture, and looked upon as "one of their own" Gora Euskadi

We definitely resemble the Basques in a few ways. Massive generalisation, but there you go. Eskerrik asko!

Ghost Buster

I grew up in a rural part of Mayo where several families were dark eyed, olive skinned with tight curly hair. Not remotely your stereo typed irish person by any means.

getz

how did they work that out,when you understand that all the spainsh are decended from the moors and arabic nations.

Davyhal

There is a common ancestor with the people of the Basque region, but also there is a bit history of interbreeding between the Irish in the west and the people of present day Spain right up through the centuries... In fact, many people in the west of Ireland about 600 years ago believed that we were geographically closer to Spain than to parts of Britain. If you look at some of the old maps from that time, north Spain is drawn as being relatively close to the south of Ireland, and there were trade links between the merchants of coastal regions such as Galway and north Spain.

Duke Leonal Felmet

solerina wrote: »

Yeah, of course we are....with our lovely tanned skin tone, brown hair ane eyes of course we are almost Spanish ?????

Buy a history book, for pitys sake.

Fratton Fred

Cossax wrote: »

There has, to the best of my knowledge, never been any evidence of neanderthals inhabiting Ireland. Would have been heavily glaciated when they were still extant.

You should take a look at a few of my co-workers. Some of them haven't evolved one bit.

Big Nasty

Pretty_Pistol wrote: »

I remember Grainne Seoige interviewing someone about this and the guest pointed out that Grainne was an example of the dark haired/eyed Irish from the West that might have a basque connection.

It would be interesting to find out where your genes came from way back.

My woman is from the wesht and has a big family. Most of them have dark hair and brown eyes and I've noticed from spending time down that direction that there seems to be more people like this than in the east.

Eve_Dublin

I've a photo of me and my best female friends and showed it to my Spanish friends here in Spain and they all commented on how Spanish they all looked...all with brown eyes and brown hair...except me :-( I wish I looked more Basque...more exotic than Danish...

jugger0

I always thought it was the basque people not the Spanish we were related to, black hair with blue eyes and fair skin or black Irish as they say...

Computer Sci

While we are not likely genetically linked with them, people in this country share in common many characteristics with nations like Spain and other Southern European nations - at least when it comes to politics, and more to the point, tolerance of corruption.

Much of latin/ southern european politics (e.g. Italy) is rife with sleazy corruption, much as we have here with Fianna Fail and to a lesser extent some other politicians.

We seem to be different from other Northern Europeans in this sense, and have more in common in that regard with Southern European nations in the political sense with our laid back attitude to political corruption. Many Northern Europeans (Germans, Dutch, Swedish, Danish etc.) are very intolerant of corruption, and value honesty and integrity - sadly lacking in Irish polics.

There would be zero tolerance for the likes of Fianna Fail in the political/ cultural sense in most of Northern Europe, whereas they find a comfortable home in Ireland. However, I could well picture FF been a player in Spanish or Italian politics for instance.

markesmith

Surely DNA will start to give us some solid answers in the coming years?

Read somewhere that the Fir Bolg were actually a Belgian tribe on the run from the Romans, they were exiled to the Aran Islands (I think), and those islanders look different from us 'mainlanders'.

Also read that the Fomorians came from Sweden or somewhere, and were banished to Tory Island.

Finally, there's a theory that our ancestors came from Scythia (around the Crimea/Georgia/Caucasus), travelled onto Spain, and from Galicia in Spain to Ireland.

In all likelihood, ancestors crossed over from Scotland and were joined by settling Spaniards/Basques who came by boat, possibly on the run from a rival tribe that was invading the Iberian peninsula.

fontanalis

markesmith wrote: »

Surely DNA will start to give us some solid answers in the coming years?

Read somewhere that the Fir Bolg were actually a Belgian tribe on the run from the Romans, they were exiled to the Aran Islands (I think), and those islanders look different from us 'mainlanders'.

Also read that the Fomorians came from Sweden or somewhere, and were banished to Tory Island.

Finally, there's a theory that our ancestors came from Scythia (around the Crimea/Georgia/Caucasus), travelled onto Spain, and from Galicia in Spain to Ireland.

In all likelihood, ancestors crossed over from Scotland and were joined by settling Spaniards/Basques who came by boat, possibly on the run from a rival tribe that was invading the Iberian peninsula.

It already has; the early studies never claimed we were descended form Basques just that we shared the same direct male ancestry (a haplogroup called R1b).
Those studies were when DNA testing was new and was based on a sample of 3,000 irish maless. It was also estimated that R1b pre dated the ice age so it was easy to make the conclusion that it arrived in Ireland directly after the ice age via the basue region.
The testing was based on what they call bikini haplotypes; just 6 genetic markers. To put that in context personal tests you can order online now cover up to 111 genetic markers (37 at a minimum). So it was very easy to group the Irish and the Basques together.
When the science advanced it was found the R1b Irish grouped more with British males and those from the North Sea area and Basques were on a diffeent branch. A subgroup of R1b called L21 was the big discovery that more or less put an end to the Basque idea.
The dating for R1b is now thought to be around 10,000 and originated in the Caucus/caspian Sea area which has done away with the ice age refuge idea.
About 80% of irish males do have common male ancestry with Basques, but more closer to others. So Basque males and irish males have common direct male ancestry which goes back to the Caspian Sea area.
It's as accuarte to say the irish descended form people from Bashkorostan than it is to say they are descended from Basques as R1b is found at almost the same levels there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashkortostan

Even the term Basque is meant to come from the word Gascon which is a region further inland from where the Basque region is now, so Basques may actually have moved to the basque region around 2,000 years ago. The language is what seems to give the Basques their air of mystery.

The Fomor thing is interesting; I think it refers to vikings. They are sometimes referred to as Lochlann or men from the lakes. The surname McLochlann was used for vikings as Lochlann more or less means land of lakes.

fontanalis

Bannasidhe wrote: »

I would be hesitant to dismiss the Lebor Gabála as pure myth. It is a compilation of prose and poems which contain the origin stories of the Gaelic Irish - it was dismissed for a long time but now scientific advances in DNA support some of the information in it.
Like all origin tales it tends to 'romanticise' ancient origins while also containing some truths -the Old Testament is after all the origin 'myth' of the Jews but some of it has been verified by archaeology.

The story of Troy was also dismissed as pure myth - yet Schliemann found it!

Well how do we seperate what's fact from fiction; were the tuath de danann really have gods from Scythia who are now living underground, or were there one eyed giants living on Tory Island.
The DNA originally supported the ideas but with the popularity of personal testing where we can get larger databases and advances in looking in more detail the Milesian idea has more or less been destroyed. Great epic mythology though.

fontanalis

MCMLXXV wrote: »

My woman is from the wesht and has a big family. Most of them have dark hair and brown eyes and I've noticed from spending time down that direction that there seems to be more people like this than in the east.

Centuries of working outdoors fishing and farming may have something to do with it.

getz

lets over look the 800 years of the english invaders bonking irish women,

Wattle

I wish I were Enrique Inglesias. Sigh.

kylith

Mickeroo wrote: »

I have dark auburn hair and brown eyes, I tan reasonably well, my brother tans better and has jet black hair. All my uncles on mum's have black hair and tan very dark.

I was in a shop in temple bar a couple of years ago browsing when one of the employees came over to me and just started talking spainish to me, I told him I don't speak spainish, he apologised and said he was sure I was spanish from the way I looked so there must me some truth to it! Can't say I think I look all that exotc myself though

A guy I went out with in college who was always getting that. He had black hair, dark eyes, and reletively tan skin. Both his parent came from the west cost.

Duke Leonal Felmet

Spanish people have dark hair and skin because of the invasion of the Moors. This occured long after the supposed migration of people from the Iberian peninsula. We are talking many thousands of years difference here. So I'm not sure what the dark skin and hair is supposed to point to, perhaps a 17th century Spaniard banged a woman in Galway and passed on his Moorish roots. But Spanish people from the North tend to be paler skinned than the Moorish south, even produce gingers.

fontanalis

Duke Leonal Felmet wrote: »

Spanish people have dark hair and skin because of the invasion of the Moors. This occured long after the supposed migration of people from the Iberian peninsula. We are talking many thousands of years difference here. So I'm not sure what the dark skin and hair is supposed to point to, perhaps a 17th century Spaniard banged a woman in Galway and passed on his Moorish roots. But Spanish people from the North tend to be paler skinned than the Moorish south, even produce gingers.

Didn't the Goths (not the ones who hang around in front of the central bank) invade Spain at one point aswell?
Spain is a very regional country anyway.

Big Nasty

fontanalis wrote: »

Centuries of working outdoors fishing and farming may have something to do with it.

Then we should all be like that!

When did the indutrial revolution hit Ireland?

Bannasidhe

Wattle wrote: »

I wish I were Enrique Inglesias. Sigh.

Or Henrí Eaglais as he's known in the Whest.

Bannasidhe

MCMLXXV wrote: »

When did the indutrial revolution hit Ireland?

1968

Bannasidhe

kylith wrote: »

A guy I went out with in college who was always getting that. He had black hair, dark eyes, and reletively tan skin. Both his parent came from the west cost.

Sure I'm Cork born, bred and reared and I have dark hair, hazel/brown eyes and sallow skin as do both of my parents and 3 of my grandparents.
Mind...my sister has blonde hair and blue eyes and my brother has reddish brown hair and brown eyes....