The Demise of the Empire

KeithAFC wrote: »

Would have been great to just be involved in it and being a general, even better. If you die, it was for King and country. Duke of Wellington, one of my heroes. The greatest general.

Bit of topic, keith Have you ever seen his monument in Dublin's phoenix park ?

pmcmahon wrote: »

To a certain extent,The anti british sentiment amongst some Irish people is heavily parallel to monty pythons "what have the romans ever done for us" attitude.

The soldiers sent over here were mainly from the fúcked up regiments and the marines,paras etc etc after WW1 or onwards..Mismanagement of Ireland by Britain is to blame for most atrocities,i.e a nationalist man in londonderry could either sit around all day unemployed or join the I.R.A thus creating their own enemy,If the british were to promote support in emplyoing these people to put food on the table (by which i mean not withdraw jobs on terms of background) the events between both countries would've been far more humble in the long run.Can't change the past but both sides have a black shadow on the whether they nationalist or british.

Mainly from "fcuked up regiments"? Is that some sort of excuse, sure its not Britains fault cause the lads they sent over were headcases?

Mismanagement? Eh, thats an 'interesting' way to describe centuries of oppression, discrimination and just generally all round being treated like sh!t. The Brits pursued policies aimed at destroying the Irish people, most obvious of course is An Gorta Mór. In my book it was something very close to genocide, but at the very least Britains policies displayed a complete lack of empathy or concern, continuing to export vast amounts of food while the Irish starved or emigrated, approximately halving the population by some estimates. (8-9 million at the start of the century, 4 after the famine). On top of that you had the Gregory clause, Penal laws etc. These things were not "mismanagement". But sure, the famine was sent by God to punish the Irish. :rolleyes: How much money would it have taken? Surely the Great British Empire could have afforded to save people who were its own subjects?

Sure if starving wasn't bad enough, hundreds of thousands were evicted from what meager properties they had by the "Lords" (they are of course responsible, the aristocrats of Britain, not of course the average British person, who generally, are very, very nice people) who owned the land.

Its ridiculous to say that Irelands suffering is down to "mismanagement". Its down to a racist, uncaring, discriminating attitude towards the Irish, always has been throughout history. (recent enough example, its OK to use plastic bullets in the north, but those things were deemed to dangerous to use in Britain, sure the Irish don't count, thats just one example of thousands).

Its very rare I delve into my "Bad things the Brits did" book, I tend to stick to living memory, but really, if you think the actions of the British and their atrocities are down to "mismanagement" you are deluded. The brutal crushing of rebellions, terrible , punitive laws, the centuries of suffering Ireland has endured, are not down to "mismanagement". The entire British empire was won and kept through brutal means, massacres and oppression. Its not just the Irish who suffered. The Brits never liked the natives.

The British Empire was a nasty, oppressive regime which inflicted suffering on natives the world over, thank fcuk its gone I say!

Also, thankfully, we seem to be getting on better than ever now. Yeah, things will have to be let slide in the name of progress, but revisionism to the degree of labeling what happened as "mismanagement" shouldn't be allowed, its simply insulting to all those who died.

While I'm in a ranting mood, you know what really pisses me off? People who spout sh!te about us "being better off under the Brits" or "we don't deserve to rule ourselves". Those people must be thick, as bad as FF have been, or the rapidly diminishing RCC has been, they both pale in comparison to the centuries of British rule, and its not as if the brutality is all that long ago.

I truly cannot understand how some Irish men wish the war of independence failed and we never won some semblance of freedom. (Looking at you Lordsuch! Were your ancestors part of elite?)

I think when the book is finally closed on Anglo Irish relations, and they are viewed as an entirety, the "black shadow" the Brits have will be vastly larger and darker than that of the Irish. (before the usual suspects, no that does not mean I think xyz was ok cause the Brits did abc)

KeithAFC wrote: »

Nope. Rarely ever visit the Republic.

You should come down for a pint, seriously. We can go out to oldbridge and laugh at the ridiculousness of the life sized posters of Paisley and Bertie they have.

Show Time wrote: »

I was taking the piss at the Keith.:rolleyes:

And so was i :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

..........This thread isn't about Star Wars at all.

Kadongy wrote: »

Irish soldiers weren't that highly rated by the British either. We weren't included in their list of martial races - foreign peoples considered to be the best soldiers. They mainly preferred various Asian tribes - especially the Gurkhas.

Well, there's an issue here!

Recruitment into the BA goes via their 2 channels. One route is the overseas cell, for commonwealth and protectorates, the other is for Scottish, English, Welsh, Northern Irish and Republic of Ireland. We're not one of their overseas races.

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Mainly from "fcuked up regiments"? Is that some sort of excuse, sure its not Britains fault cause the lads they sent over were headcases?

Mismanagement? Eh, thats an 'interesting' way to describe centuries of oppression, discrimination and just generally all round being treated like sh!t. The Brits pursued policies aimed at destroying the Irish people, most obvious of course is An Gorta Mór. In my book it was something very close to genocide, but at the very least Britains policies displayed a complete lack of empathy or concern, continuing to export vast amounts of food while the Irish starved or emigrated, approximately halving the population by some estimates. (8-9 million at the start of the century, 4 after the famine). On top of that you had the Gregory clause, Penal laws etc. These things were not "mismanagement". But sure, the famine was sent by God to punish the Irish. :rolleyes: How much money would it have taken? Surely the Great British Empire could have afforded to save people who were its own subjects?

Sure if starving wasn't bad enough, hundreds of thousands were evicted from what meager properties they had by the "Lords" (they are of course responsible, the aristocrats of Britain, not of course the average British person, who generally, are very, very nice people) who owned the land.

Its ridiculous to say that Irelands suffering is down to "mismanagement". Its down to a racist, uncaring, discriminating attitude towards the Irish, always has been throughout history. (recent enough example, its OK to use plastic bullets in the north, but those things were deemed to dangerous to use in Britain, sure the Irish don't count, thats just one example of thousands).

Its very rare I delve into my "Bad things the Brits did" book, I tend to stick to living memory, but really, if you think the actions of the British and their atrocities are down to "mismanagement" you are deluded. The brutal crushing of rebellions, terrible , punitive laws, the centuries of suffering Ireland has endured, are not down to "mismanagement". The entire British empire was won and kept through brutal means, massacres and oppression. Its not just the Irish who suffered. The Brits never liked the natives.

The British Empire was a nasty, oppressive regime which inflicted suffering on natives the world over, thank fcuk its gone I say!

Also, thankfully, we seem to be getting on better than ever now. Yeah, things will have to be let slide in the name of progress, but revisionism to the degree of labeling what happened as "mismanagement" shouldn't be allowed, its simply insulting to all those who died.

I truly cannot understand how some Irish men wish the war of independence failed and we never won some semblance of freedom. (Looking at you Lordsuch! Were your ancestors part of elite?)

I think when the book is finally closed on Anglo Irish relations, and they are viewed as an entirety, the "black shadow" the Brits have will be vastly larger and darker than that of the Irish. (before the usual suspects, no that does not mean I think xyz was ok cause the Brits did abc)

I would actually agree with a lot of this. Certainly what you say about the famine and certain regiments sent over

While I'm in a ranting mood, you know what really pisses me off? People who spout sh!te about us "being better off under the Brits" or "we don't deserve to rule ourselves". Those people must be thick, as bad as FF have been, or the rapidly diminishing RCC has been, they both pale in comparison to the centuries of British rule, and its not as if the brutality is all that long ago

There is some merit to that argument. Ireland became a more oppressive place after it got independence due to letting Catholicism have such power. Divorce and contraception only recently legalised. Abortion still illegal.

Then you had the state facilitating the magdalene prisons and other so called state care.

Unlikely this would have happened under British rule if it continued.

In modern times look at your fee system for university. The UK one is much fairer. Students take responsibility for their education in the form of loans whereas in Ireland its down to what your parents earn. Everyone has to cough up 2K for fees with universities such as DCU punishing people who pay late with extra fees(170euro I believe)

Your health care is also a joke. You shouldn't have to pay a doctor 50euro to diagnose a chest infection then another 30euro for prescriptions. The same infection would cost you less than 10quid were you still in the UK

So the "better off under the Brits" is not a baseless claim. Had it remained that way its likely you would be more like Wales or Scotland - I doubt Ireland would be treated with contempt like in the 19th century. Remember how the 1916 rebels were hated by the people of Dublin at first.