Electronic bus stop timetables

LXFlyer · 18-08-2011 01:33PM

To be fair though when the network direct project is finished you will have a full outer ring with routes that will connect with one another:

17a (Kilbarrack-Blanchardstown)
76a (Blanchardstown-Tallaght)
75 or 175 (Tallaght-Dun Laoghaire)

There will also be other orbital services aside from that:

17 (Heuston (possibly) to Blackrock)
18 (Palmerstown to Docklands)
76 (Ballyfermot to Tallaght)
102 (Sutton to Airport)
104 (Clontarf to Beaumont)
166 (Liffey Valley to Tallaght)

Other local routes will include:

33b (Swords to Portrane)
41a (Swords to Airport)
59 (Dun Laoghaire to Killiney)
111 (Dun Laoghaire to Cherrywood)
184/185 (Bray Local routes)
236 / 238 / 270 (Blanchardstown local routes)

noelfirl · 18-08-2011 02:32PM

lxflyer wrote: »

The maps are somewhat useless for the city centre - a list would be far more helpful, but they do give a good indication of how widespread the displays will be.

The lists for DCC and DLR areas are linked to on this page - http://dublinobserver.com/2011/03/data-blog-real-time-bus-displays-locations/ - although they may be inaccurate or out of date, as just by glancing there are to spots on the map for displays in Chapelizod but none listed in the DCC spreadsheet.

Wild Bill · 18-08-2011 11:30PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Hillcrest Road was not suitable for buses and had numerous accidents with cars when they did operate along it (including my father's!). That's why the 44 was re-routed via Sandyford Village.

I would suggest sticking with the existing route and just cutting out the Ballyogan detour. People who want to connect with LUAS could do so at Balally or Dundrum.

I didn't say buses should go through Hillcrest Road. I said from Hiillcrest (after coming up from Sandyford village).

The section of Leopardstown Rd (brand new) leads to the New Murphystown Rd (even newer) past Glencairn Luas stop. Then back onto Kilgobbin at the Ballyogan/Kilgobbin junction.

Who, coming from Enniskerry, Kilternan, Stepaside wants to go anywhere near Dundrum to connect with the luas?

Wild Bill · 18-08-2011 11:42PM

lxflyer wrote: »

As for the reduction in frequency the reality is that going forward there will be:

City-Dundrum: 44 and 61
Dundrum-Sandyford: 44 and 44b (peak time) and 175 orbital (to Blackthorn Drive)
Sandyford Village: 44
Kilgobbin Road: 44 and 47
Stepaside-Enniskerry: 44

That level of service is more than appropriate. It should mean a half-hourly service between the city and Dundrum between the 44 and 61, Dundrum and Sandyford (at peak) between the 44 and 44b, and along Kilgobbin Road between the 44 and 47. A lot of work is being put into trying to integrate the schedules so that the frequency evens out.

South of Stepaside I really can't see a need for anything more than that.

I must remain somewhat parochial here but I couldn't give a fiddlers about the service north of Sandyford Village!

South of that, as you say, we are looking at half an hour at peak on the 44s.

That isn't going to entice anyone with options between Enniskerry and Stepaside to leave the car at home in order to play Russian roulette with the Dublin Bus timetable at their nearest lonely 44 bus stop.

LXFlyer · 19-08-2011 07:15AM

Wild Bill wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

As for the reduction in frequency the reality is that going forward there will be:

City-Dundrum: 44 and 61
Dundrum-Sandyford: 44 and 44b (peak time) and 175 orbital (to Blackthorn Drive)
Sandyford Village: 44
Kilgobbin Road: 44 and 47
Stepaside-Enniskerry: 44

That level of service is more than appropriate. It should mean a half-hourly service between the city and Dundrum between the 44 and 61, Dundrum and Sandyford (at peak) between the 44 and 44b, and along Kilgobbin Road between the 44 and 47. A lot of work is being put into trying to integrate the schedules so that the frequency evens out.

South of Stepaside I really can't see a need for anything more than that.

I must remain somewhat parochial here but I couldn't give a fiddlers about the service north of Sandyford Village!

South of that, as you say, we are looking at half an hour at peak on the 44s.

That isn't going to entice anyone with options between Enniskerry and Stepaside to leave the car at home in order to play Russian roulette with the Dublin Bus timetable at their nearest lonely 44 bus stop.

You cannot be serious. Being frank there are not thousands of people to entice between Enniskerry and Stepaside - most of the route is open countryside. The planned service levels would be sufficient to meet the demand that exists/might exist. The reality is that the 44 is a PSO route - and that is not going to change.

I think you underestimate people's intelligence. Again given the 44 will be clockface hourly (that means at the same time past each hour) people will be able to predict (give or take a few minutes) what time the bus will arrive.

Being parochial is not a good way to engage in transport planning.

listermint · 19-08-2011 03:53PM

lxflyer wrote: »

From www.transportforireland.ie

Thats all lip service at the moment, I am involved with Android Developers one of which designed and released a very popular dublin bus app with stops routes planners etc. Great piece of code.

However the Arrival information is a disgrace. I mean it works on a handful of stops which is useless.

The Smartphone revolution has already begun, Its young people you want to entice onto the bus they are the ones who would migrate to it, if it was a good service and you could get accurate information. You wont find grannys or grandads giving up their cars, Its just not going to happen regardless if there are on street displays.

The displays will take months / years to roll out. Efforts should be darn well made in the fore front of pouring the available Live GPS data of the vehicles to developers. Thats how you will grab market share its plain to see and far from rocket science.

I know about 2 people that dont have an internet accessible phone. But most have App phones. Pushing live data right now would be a huge boost to Dublin Bus and im at a loss as to why it was not the first step in their plan for this system.....

LXFlyer · 19-08-2011 04:46PM

listermint wrote: »

Thats all lip service at the moment, I am involved with Android Developers one of which designed and released a very popular dublin bus app with stops routes planners etc. Great piece of code.

However the Arrival information is a disgrace. I mean it works on a handful of stops which is useless.

The Smartphone revolution has already begun, Its young people you want to entice onto the bus they are the ones who would migrate to it, if it was a good service and you could get accurate information. You wont find grannys or grandads giving up their cars, Its just not going to happen regardless if there are on street displays.

The displays will take months / years to roll out. Efforts should be darn well made in the fore front of pouring the available Live GPS data of the vehicles to developers. Thats how you will grab market share its plain to see and far from rocket science.

I know about 2 people that dont have an internet accessible phone. But most have App phones. Pushing live data right now would be a huge boost to Dublin Bus and im at a loss as to why it was not the first step in their plan for this system.....

The displays are due for completion by year end. Just because there isn't a display at a stop does not mean that they can not set the stop live - they use that for internal purposes right now. But they may still be testing the veracity of the information, particularly given the entire network is changing at the moment.

Patience!

etchyed · 19-08-2011 06:35PM

listermint wrote: »

However the Arrival information is a disgrace. I mean it works on a handful of stops which is useless.

Look, I know this is all long overdue, but the fact is it's not ready yet. Calling an incomplete system a disgrace is a bit over the top. Of course it's useless. Nobody is claiming otherwise. It hasn't been launched yet.

Chris_5339762 · 19-08-2011 07:04PM

Why am I so chuffed that they are being good and using Openstreetmap data for their PDF and RTPI website

Jayuu · 20-08-2011 07:43PM

Personally while I'm not opposed to a dedicated app for this I'm quite happy to use the text version of the RTPI website. I have around a three minute walk to bus stop on the Malahide Road and I always check the text version of the website on my way down in the morning. I even have my stop bookmarked so its just one touch to get the information (assuming the site has it!).

Given that this stop has a info sign that was errected months ago and now can't be connected because there's no electricity the website is a godsend.

Wild Bill · 21-08-2011 11:23AM

lxflyer wrote: »

You cannot be serious.

The reality is that the 44 is a PSO route - and that is not going to change.

I think you underestimate people's intelligence.

Being parochial is not a good way to engage in transport planning.

You sound like someone from Dublin Bus customer complaints! ("The customer is a nuisance" is their motto) Do you work for Dublin Bus?

Again given the 44 will be clockface hourly (that means at the same time past each hour) people will be able to predict (give or take a few minutes) what time the bus will arrive.

Give or take a few minutes! Yeah - on a good day; when there aren't missing buses, breakdowns, missing drivers or when some guy rushing home goes the direct route and never leaves the Enniskerry road!

Remember, I was, and my neighbours around here are, customers of the ineptly run 44 "service". If it's a PSO I'd suggest we sack Dublin Bus and get a private company to run the 44.

And I'd further suggest the reason it's a PSO is because nobody uses it because of inept management and an attitude to would-be customers that is well reflected in you reply. :cool:

Wild Bill · 21-08-2011 11:47AM

lxflyer wrote: »

You cannot be serious. Being frank there are not thousands of people to entice between Enniskerry and Stepaside - most of the route is open countryside. The planned service levels would be sufficient to meet the demand that exists/might exist. The reality is that the 44 is a PSO route - and that is not going to change.

I've done some quick research and I've come to the conclusion that you really should get out of Dundrum a bit more

The Enniskerry - Stepaside corridor contains about 15,000 people, most of whom are car-owners and use their cars along the corridor to commute to work/school/college.

In part because of the crap incompetent unreliable anti-customer "service" provided by CIE.

As Dublin Bus (by a quick calculation) has one bus route for approx. every 5,000 people inside the County Dublin boundary it seems your assertion that Enniskerry-Stepaside is "empty" begs the question where all the other routes are serving.

Jayuu · 21-08-2011 01:21PM

Mod Question
Is it possible to take the 44 Bus Route debate to another thread? Maybe we can create a generic Dublin Bus Route thread for it and similar discussions.

LXFlyer · 21-08-2011 03:42PM

Wild Bill wrote: »

lxflyer wrote: »

You cannot be serious.

The reality is that the 44 is a PSO route - and that is not going to change.

I think you underestimate people's intelligence.

Being parochial is not a good way to engage in transport planning.

You sound like someone from Dublin Bus customer complaints! ("The customer is a nuisance" is their motto) Do you work for Dublin Bus?

Again given the 44 will be clockface hourly (that means at the same time past each hour) people will be able to predict (give or take a few minutes) what time the bus will arrive.

Give or take a few minutes! Yeah - on a good day; when there aren't missing buses, breakdowns, missing drivers or when some guy rushing home goes the direct route and never leaves the Enniskerry road!

Remember, I was, and my neighbours around here are, customers of the ineptly run 44 "service". If it's a PSO I'd suggest we sack Dublin Bus and get a private company to run the 44.

And I'd further suggest the reason it's a PSO is because nobody uses it because of inept management and an attitude to would-be customers that is well reflected in you reply. :cool:

Nothing to do with DB except a daily customer.

Wild Bill · 21-08-2011 11:01PM

Jayuu wrote: »

Mod Question
Is it possible to take the 44 Bus Route debate to another thread? Maybe we can create a generic Dublin Bus Route thread for it and similar discussions.

The 44 is just a symptom of a much wider incompetence.

The 46A would be the exception that proves the rule; the 44 would be the rule.

LXFlyer · 22-08-2011 10:36AM

Wild Bill wrote: »

The 44 is just a symptom of a much wider incompetence.

The 46A would be the exception that proves the rule; the 44 would be the rule.

My view on this is that all of the reforms currently happening have to be seen as a package.

RTPI is one part of that, but others such as the rollout of the AVLC control system, the network redesign, the recast of timetables into a consistent frequency pattern, and the integration of routes into a corridor based timetable are all equally important.

All of them need to be implemented fully for the bus network to be improved.

You have your view on DB, which you are entitled to. I personally think you are exaggerating things somewhat as I doubt the 44 is as unreliable as you suggest it is - reading your posts you would believe this happens every single day with virtually every departure. I seriously doubt this given I would have seen the 44 every day at the same times on my own commute at the same place over the past year (from the 48a), but then my eyes may have been deceiving me.

My own view is that the network review is going the right way and with the full implementation of the Deloitte report recommendations, along with the RTPI rollout on street and text/online will deliver a better and more reliable service to the city as a whole.

I think we will have to agree to disagree as you seem to have very pre-conceived opinions and don't appear to accept that things are changing which they most certainly are.

However to get back on thread - the RTPI is an absolutely critical element towards making the service more attractive. The online version is particularly useful.

etchyed · 04-09-2011 05:13PM

Across the water, TfL have only just now launched their real time bus information website, countdown.tfl.gov.uk, despite having had the on-street signs for a lot longer than Dublin. At the moment it's also just a trial. Seems to use OSM maps like the DB one.

teol · 04-09-2011 06:00PM

etchyed wrote: »

Across the water, TfL have only just now launched their real time bus information website, countdown.tfl.gov.uk, despite having had the on-street signs for a lot longer than Dublin. At the moment it's also just a trial. Seems to use OSM maps like the DB one.

Why can't we have a nice website like Transport for London? Transport for Dublin is absolute pants.

No mention of RTPI - Why is that on a seperate site?
No mention of other Bus operators
No integrated journey planner
Just external links - no information given on the page

-WTF???

Cathaoirleach · 04-09-2011 08:59PM

Haven't seen Clipart since the 90s - LOL!

monument · 04-09-2011 10:25PM

teol wrote: »

Why can't we have a nice website like Transport for London? Transport for Dublin is absolute pants.

The short answer is authority over Dublin's transport is highly disjointed. We have:

NTA (which has consolidated some things like taxis, funding for projects, some planning, bus licencing, etc), NRA, four Dublin councils, Department of Transport, RPA, CIE, Dublin Bus, Irish Rail, Bus Eireann, Waterways Ireland, etc. There's nobody in charge overall -- it's often a game of pass the parcel -- and the people like TDs and councillors who are elected are far removed from power overall but at the same time can do damage by objecting to things like 24 hour bus lanes. Attempts to make a Dublin Transport Authority are first scraped and then years later tried again only to be changed to a National Transport Authority.

It's the same reason for a lot of our transport problems (including the lack of better integrated ticketing, the delays in getting an integrated smartcard, parking on main routes which should be 24 hour 7 day a week clear ways and problems just solved or getting there like years waiting for real time info for buses and a taxi regulator who would not even talk to elected councillors). The NTA has helped things , but it should be more powerful, have wider powers, and, for Dublin matters, be backed by a directly elected mayor.

In London, Transport for London is the authority over: London Bus, London Underground, London Overground, Barclays Cycle Hire, trams, Docklands Light Railway, Victoria Coach Station and some other coach parking, taxis, river services. They also manage 580km of their road network called red routes, transport planning, and fund and oversees some cycling, walking and other road projects... among other things.

Even places like LA have this kind of localised, joint up thinking that we can't manage in Ireland.

Dublin is the size of a city and county which could be far better under one council but with a remit over 30% of the country's population, a workforce large than that, and 50% of the tax take scares the living daylight out of national government. A directly elected mayor does the same. They were scarred of the Corpo before the county grow stronger and that's why they split them rather than fixing the problems and the councils we ended with were so fractured.

04-09-2011 10:35PM

I went away for a week, when I came back, not only was there a display installed at stop 2697 (Fairview park/footbridge inbound) but it was active too. The one at stop 4413 outside Heuston Station's St John's Road West entrance has also been activated. So now, all the stops I use have RTPI installed and enabled.

LXFlyer · 05-09-2011 12:06PM

It is intended that www.transportforireland.ie will become the single portal for all public transport information - I think you will need to just give them time - there is an awful lot going on in terms of public transport right now. They are working on a single journey planner as part of this site.

etchyed · 05-09-2011 03:34PM

lxflyer wrote: »

It is intended that www.transportforireland.ie will become the single portal for all public transport information - I think you will need to just give them time - there is an awful lot going on in terms of public transport right now. They are working on a single journey planner as part of this site.

The NTA have had a lot of bloody time to work on that website. It was one of their functions when they were established to provide unified information and branding for transport in the Greater Dublin Area. Nearly two years later and all we have is a website where people can provide feedback on one tiny part of the overall picture - RTPI.

They're moving at an absolute snail's pace; no mention has been made of the website or the journey planner since they were discussed at an Oireachtas Transport Committee meeting months and months ago.

BrianD · 06-09-2011 09:48AM

lxflyer wrote: »

It is intended that www.transportforireland.ie will become the single portal for all public transport information - I think you will need to just give them time - there is an awful lot going on in terms of public transport right now. They are working on a single journey planner as part of this site.

This site provides absolutely no utility for the public. There's not even a link to any public transit operator.

we need something like this:

http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/

Which also offers a phone service. You ring up and they tell you a route.

Plus it should be www.transportfordublin.ie for Dublin and so on.

LXFlyer · 06-09-2011 02:37PM

BrianD wrote: »

This site provides absolutely no utility for the public. There's not even a link to any public transit operator.

we need something like this:

http://www.metlinkmelbourne.com.au/

Which also offers a phone service. You ring up and they tell you a route.

Plus it should be www.transportfordublin.ie for Dublin and so on.

Re-read my post.

I said that "it is intended" that www.transportforireland.ie will be the single portal.

It has not been rolled out yet. I would hope that it would be like that site - basically a single portal for all public transport in Ireland.

People need to be a bit more patient - between the Dublin Bus Network Direct rollout, the ITS rollout, the RTPI rollout, the backlog (inherited) of bus route licence applications, ongoing Bus Eireann changes and various other projects, everything is not going to happen instantly. There is an immense amount of change happening at the moment.

markpb · 06-09-2011 02:49PM

lxflyer wrote: »

There is an immense amount of change happening at the moment.

The problem with semi state organisations is that they're spending our money so people expect to have some visibility over what they're spending it on. It wouldn't cost much to put up a simple site explaining all the stuff that they're doing and the stuff that they hope to do in the future. Nobody expects them to do everything instantly but they do expect to know what's going on.

Edit: to be fair, the TfI website has at least made a start on this. Their section on RTIS is quite good.

LXFlyer · 06-09-2011 04:07PM

markpb wrote: »

The problem with semi state organisations is that they're spending our money so people expect to have some visibility over what they're spending it on. It wouldn't cost much to put up a simple site explaining all the stuff that they're doing and the stuff that they hope to do in the future. Nobody expects them to do everything instantly but they do expect to know what's going on.

Edit: to be fair, the TfI website has at least made a start on this. Their section on RTIS is quite good.

To be honest Mark I wonder sometimes - all of the above are time consuming projects and certainly some people do seem to think that they can just be magicked out of thin air.

markpb · 06-09-2011 04:55PM

lxflyer wrote: »

To be honest Mark I wonder sometimes - all of the above are time consuming projects and certainly some people do seem to think that they can just be magicked out of thin air.

I didn't comment on their work or achievements at all, I just said that they should tell us what's going on. If you work in the public sector (and to a different extent in the private sector), you must expect to communicate your work. You can't work under a mushroom and expect people to be content.

etchyed · 06-09-2011 07:46PM

lxflyer wrote: »

People need to be a bit more patient

Really? You think it's OK that the NTA has been in existence for over a year and a half and hasn't yet managed to produce a unified public transport information website? Providing integrated transport information is one one of the NTA's stated reasons for existence and so far we have absolutely nothing besides the registration of the transportforireland.ie domain and its use for a project that should eventually be a small part of the full site.

lxflyer wrote: »

between the Dublin Bus Network Direct rollout

Timetable and route changes that would be easily modified in a well-designed CMS

the ITS rollout

This is no reason for the website not to exist now. When the ITS rollout eventually does occur, the fare structures could be modified in the system and a new section added explaining the Leap Card

the RTPI rollout

Something that could be added to the website when RTPI is rolled out

the backlog (inherited) of bus route licence applications

in all likelihood being dealt with by staff who have transferred from the DoT that have nothing to do with the integrated information project

ongoing Bus Eireann changes

don't really know what you're talking about here

and various other projects

or here

everything is not going to happen instantly.

It's been nearly two years. It's just a bloody website!

lxflyer, I've agreed with you before in this very thread about people's unrealistic expectations and I'm generally not one to go bashing state agencies for the sake of it, but really and truly, why are we still waiting for this website to launch?

LXFlyer · 06-09-2011 07:59PM

Well etchyed why don't you ask the NTA?

What I do know is that they have made good progress in other areas such as licensing, finally implementing public service contracts, and forcing changing attitudes within the transport companies - viz. various Bus Eireann network changes with more services operating via Kent Station in Cork, revised networks in Cavan and Wexford. There is only so much one body can do at any given time, and I happen to think that this whole process will take time, particularly given that the body is having to get a totally different focus from the various operating companies as well.

Any website of this nature is going to have to have the full range of information on all ticketing, timetables etc. As it stands not all of the individual operating companies have that information! Getting them to do that is half the battle - finally in recent months Dublin Bus now show the outer suburban fares charts - something that was before the third secret of Fatima! Irish Rail are going to be launching a significantly improved website in the coming months - with far clearer information apparently which would help.

Something like this website is not that straightforward given the complexity of different operators, fare structures, different timetabling methods etc, etc. Developing an integrated journey planner I would suggest is a bloody nightmare.

I'm pointing out that there is an awful lot of change going on, and I suspect that they may well have decided that it would be better waiting until the RTPI and ITS are rolled out and the Network Direct and ongoing Bus Eireann changes are fully implemented before launching this - I don't know but that's my guess.

My memory certainly of TfL was that it took some considerable time for them to get fully up and running as well.

Electronic bus stop timetables

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