M17/M18 scheme: should it be built?

invinciblePRSTV · 09-08-2011 1:08pm

mayo23 wrote: »

Motorways are meant primarily for long distance traffic. The M17/ M18 would need to serve this purpose as well as being a commuter route (especially the M17).

Let's be realistic here, most users of the M17/18 are commuters going from Galway to their rural one-off or small settlement many miles away from their place of employment.

mayo23 wrote: »

Building standalone bypasses on routes that are going to have motorways on them anyway doesn't make sense.

As has been explained repeatedly, building bypasses of the worst bottlenecks first and filling in the rural low AADT gaps later has worked successfully in this country for the past few decades.

mayo23 wrote: »

What should be done is cut the bureaucracy and split the motorway sections. Why can't the government legislate for that? That way more can be added to the motorway as more money is found, and the route will improve slowly but surely, instead of waiting 10 years then building it all in one go.

You seem to be agreeing with me here. Build the critical sections first, build the rest later once the money is there and other important projects are built.

mayo23 wrote: »

Castleisland didn't need a 2+2 dual carraigeway as a bypass. Thats just politics gone mad. I don't know about Tralee, I haven't been there in years. But these are the priorities imo, in no particular order:

Castleisland, like Tralee or Tuam or Claregalway are small Irish towns where functional WS2 bypasses would do the job perfectly. It's just we're used to being spoiled here in Ireland with regards over specification of new roads.

mayo23 wrote: »

-Newlands Cross upgrade
-M17 and Tuam bypass (more so than the M18, as a commuter route)
-M18
-M20
-Cork SRR

Nah, scrap or delay the AC plan, build a few bypasses of the worst spots - Buttevant, C-Ville, Claregalway, Tuam and focus the rest of the resources elsewhere.

Sponge Bob · 09-08-2011 2:38pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Castleisland, like Tralee or Tuam or Claregalway are small Irish towns where functional WS2 bypasses would do the job perfectly. It's just we're used to being spoiled here in Ireland with regards over specification of new roads.

Offline 2+2 is vastly superior to offline WS2 and for the same cost more or less ...whether built at grade or separated. Any alleged overspeccing in Castleisland has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with the choice of 2+2 over WS2 per se.

I trust that you will clarify your point somewhat next time!

CerebralCortex · 09-08-2011 2:45pm

mayo23 wrote: »

Motorways are meant primarily for long distance traffic. The M17/ M18 would need to serve this purpose as well as being a commuter route (especially the M17). Building standalone bypasses on routes that are going to have motorways on them anyway doesn't make sense. Enfield and Loughrea are prime examples - getting a bypass AND a bypass-of-a-bypass (motorway) within 5 years.

What should be done is cut the bureaucracy and split the motorway sections. Why can't the government legislate for that? That way more can be added to the motorway as more money is found, and the route will improve slowly but surely, instead of waiting 10 years then building it all in one go.

Castleisland didn't need a 2+2 dual carraigeway as a bypass. Thats just politics gone mad. I don't know about Tralee, I haven't been there in years. But these are the priorities imo, in no particular order:

-Newlands Cross upgrade
-M17 and Tuam bypass (more so than the M18, as a commuter route)
-M18
-M20
-Cork SRR

Ordered by priority:

Newlands Cross upgrade
M20
M18
Cork SRR
M17 and Tuam bypass

That would be my preference.

KevR · 09-08-2011 6:12pm

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Or how small the potential for trade is, afterall what exactly does Galway offer in terms of commerce beyond tourism and a few IDA estates & factories? It's not exactly the major economic hub on the island now is it?

Do you really think that about Galway?

Nobody here has ever even hinted that Galway is 'the' major economic hub in Ireland. Obviously Dublin is the major economic hub. That doesn't mean Cork, Galway and Limerick are not important economic hubs also.

Pete_Cavan · 09-08-2011 9:41pm

Built bypasses of Tuam and Claregalway
Finish M18 as far as M6
Scrap M17 altogether

/thread

galwayrush · 09-08-2011 10:59pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Built bypasses of Tuam and Claregalway

Finish M18 as far as M6

Scrap M17 altogether

/thread

With you there.
I think, finish the M17 from Gort to near Athenry, a proper Claregalway bypass starting near Loughgeorge to link up with the proposed Galway outer bypass, along with Tuam by pass would be sufficent for many years to come.
Wishful thinking i know.

veryangryman · 09-08-2011 11:06pm

galwayrush wrote: »

With you there.
I think, finish the M17 from Gort to near Athenry, a proper Claregalway bypass starting near Loughgeorge to link up with the proposed Galway outer bypass, along with Tuam by pass would be sufficent for many years to come.
Wishful thinking i know.

Galway bypass wont include an N17 junction so unless the scheme is changed...

D.L.R. · 09-08-2011 11:36pm

There's a case to complete the M18, but no real case for the M17 as a motorway.

Just bypass Claregalway and start saving up for the Galway Bypass.

antoobrien · 10-08-2011 9:02am

galwayrush wrote: »

a proper Claregalway bypass starting near Loughgeorge to link up with the proposed Galway outer bypass, along with Tuam by pass would be sufficent for many years to come.
Wishful thinking i know.

Not feasible, such a road would have to go north of claregalway, land which is prone to flooding and is very boggy (so difficult to do much heavy construction).

If you're going south of Claregalway, you'd be too close to i.e. within 2km, the tuam rd is 3km from the proposed site of, the the M6 interchange at Glennascaul (one of the citicisms of the port tunnel is that it opens onto the M1 far too close to the m50). Also the land in one of the villages you'd have to go through is prone to flooding (at certain times in the winter the existing road is totally cut by the turlough).

At that rate of going you'd be better off, redesigning the junction at the N63 north of Loughgeorge, widening the N63 to Annach Hill and building that section of the M17 south to Rathmorrissy to link with the M6.

Irish and Proud · 10-08-2011 1:32pm

D.L.R. wrote: »

There's a case to complete the M18, but no real case for the M17 as a motorway.

Just bypass Claregalway and start saving up for the Galway Bypass.

Firstly, I'm sorry for jumping down your throat in the thread relating to the shelving of road projects...

...should have read your post properly before replying!

Now, the above concept is something I've been thinking as well - do we really need the M17 right now - can it not be put on standby as a shovel ready project for when the economy picks up again. Indeed, it seems that the road that's needed right now is the N6 Galway Outer Bypass. The M18 should also be completed as well as the M11 Arklow to Rathnew and N7 NLX. The next priorities should then be the M20, Dunkettle and the N22 CNRR (North Section).

Regards!

KevR · 10-08-2011 5:32pm

I would gladly take the M18 as far as Rathmorrissey now, with the M17 being postponed for a few years. I'm not against a toll between Galway and Limerick either (i.e. - a toll somewhere between Gort and Rathmorrissey)

Chris_5339762 · 10-08-2011 8:32pm

Arguably though, Claregalway is far worse of a bottleneck than Clarinbridge is.

What needs to happen is that Claregalway Inner Relief Road. More important than the M18 gap or the M17. I CANNOT believe that such a comparatively small project has taken so many decades.

D.L.R. · 11-08-2011 12:06pm

Irish and Proud wrote: »

Firstly, I'm sorry for jumping down your throat in the thread relating to the shelving of road projects...

...should have read your post properly before replying!

Now, the above concept is something I've been thinking as well - do we really need the M17 right now - can it not be put on standby as a shovel ready project for when the economy picks up again. Indeed, it seems that the road that's needed right now is the N6 Galway Outer Bypass. The M18 should also be completed as well as the M11 Arklow to Rathnew and N7 NLX. The next priorities should then be the M20, Dunkettle and the N22 CNRR (North Section).

Regards!

No worries mate, all in a day's heated debate. Yeah I'd go along with the M11 gap, NLX and Dunkettle as far more important than this project. But we haven't been great with priorities in this country the last 10 years, building white elephant after white elephant while major problems are ignored. Hopefully that attitude has now shifted, with a severe lack of resources focussing minds.

Aidan1 · 11-08-2011 1:54pm

The next priorities should then be the M20, Dunkettle and the N22 CNRR (North Section).

To which I'd add the N28 (or whatever road ends up servicing The Port of Cork expansion).

17-08-2011 6:14pm

http://apps.galwaycoco.ie/planningenquiry/MainFrames.aspx - you might need to be in IE to see this.
I was having a poke around Galway county council's planning tool and saw the above.

Possible routes for the relief road / bypass?

Don't know about the others but the orange route can be quite damp at times.

There is more detail if you zoom in including roundabout locations.

dubhthach · 18-08-2011 7:42am

Deleted User wrote: »

http://apps.galwaycoco.ie/planningenquiry/MainFrames.aspx - you might need to be in IE to see this.
I was having a poke around Galway county council's planning tool and saw the above.

Possible routes for the relief road / bypass?

Don't know about the others but the orange route can be quite damp at times.

There is more detail if you zoom in including roundabout locations.

The Blue/red route was the one that was finally chosen, nice find though. Of course back in the late 1990's they had an exhibition of possible routes in the Library in Augustine street. Just shows how long this has been going on

CerebralCortex · 18-08-2011 9:10am

dubhthach wrote: »

The Blue/red route was the one that was finally chosen, nice find though. Of course back in the late 1990's they had an exhibition of possible routes in the Library in Augustine street. Just shows how long this has been going on

That's an awful sharp turn on the north there, why's that?

18-08-2011 12:06pm

When I zoomed in further I could see that the blue/red route had the least impact on existing houses.

So the red route has three roundabouts (North of C'Galway, N18, South of C'Galway)

Is there any reason why a roundabout is being used on the N18 rather than traffic lights as in the village and at Carnmore cross? Is there not a risk of congestion in the evenings for traffic arriving from Galway having to give way to traffic arriving down from the N18?

CerebralCortex wrote: »

That's an awful sharp turn on the north there, why's that?

It looks like it is to avoid cutting off about 8 one off houses at the end of a lane. The trade off is that it seems to be pushing the road into lower land that is marked as liable to floods.

dubhthach · 18-08-2011 12:54pm

Deleted User wrote: »

When I zoomed in further I could see that the blue/red route had the least impact on existing houses.

So the red route has three roundabouts (North of C'Galway, N18, South of C'Galway)

I'm assuming it's so they don't run into the McMansions in Cinniska, there's been more built since the aerial photo form 2005
http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,537906,733804,6,0

Chris_5339762 · 18-08-2011 8:25pm

Yeah blue was the route chosen - but N17 traffic is mainline at the southern end (ie: no roundabout).

M17/M18 scheme: should it be built?

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