Weight Training for GAA player

cc87 · 20-02-2011 01:32AM

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Some of the stupidest **** i've seen done in gyms was by intercounty GAA players.

An intercounty player in the same gym as me insists on doing about 348 situps using one of those Ab King Mach Stealth Power Pro thingys every time hes in the gym

Remmy · 20-02-2011 01:35AM

cc87 wrote: »

An intercounty player in the same gym as me insists on doing about 348 situps using one of those Ab King Mach Stealth Power Pro thingys every time hes in the gym

An Intercounty goalie I know thinks weight training is bad because it makes your muscles heavy and slows you down.

deadlybuzzman · 20-02-2011 10:31AM

Remmy wrote: »

An Intercounty goalie I know thinks weight training is bad because it makes your muscles heavy and slows you down.

Ive had daft stuff like that said to me a few times and then I ask them have they ever seen a wide reciever in american football move?

deadlybuzzman · 20-02-2011 10:37AM

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Some of the stupidest **** i've seen done in gyms was by intercounty GAA players.

couple of years back I seen a few inter county hurlers sitting on swiss ball curling and over head pressing no more than the 7 1/2kg dumbells

Remmy · 20-02-2011 12:09PM

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

Ive had daft stuff like that said to me a few times and then I ask them have they ever seen a wide reciever in american football move?

Yeah thats a good way to explain it all I could conjure when he came out with that gem was one of these

deadlybuzzman · 20-02-2011 12:51PM

Remmy wrote: »

Yeah thats a good way to explain it all I could conjure when he came out with that gem was one of these

yep been there! Sometimes no matter what you say it doesnt sink in-talk sense to a fool and he'll call you foolish!

Frogdog · 20-02-2011 01:04PM

I've seen an intercounty footballer, of a very high standard, with some of his friends from his club, come into a gym down home quite often. All they do is bench press, sit ups and bicep curls and then a 15 minute jog on a treadmill.

No wonder footballers/hurlers are so far behind rugby players in terms of physical development if that's the attitude to strength training.

discus · 20-02-2011 01:33PM

Frogdog wrote: »

I've seen an intercounty footballer, of a very high standard, with some of his friends from his club, come into a gym down home quite often. All they do is bench press, sit ups and bicep curls and then a 15 minute jog on a treadmill.

No wonder footballers/hurlers are so far behind rugby players in terms of physical development if that's the attitude to strength training.

Lets be fair here, if they've never been exposed to proper training, how can they be expected to just know about proper strength and conditioning?

how many on this very forum knew what a squat or deadlift was before they started reading the Fitness Forum regularly?

deadlybuzzman · 20-02-2011 01:51PM

discus wrote: »

Lets be fair here, if they've never been exposed to proper training, how can they be expected to just know about proper strength and conditioning?

Lets face it, how many on this very forum knew what a squat or deadlift was before they started reading the Fitness Forum regularly?

thats the thing though when I seen the hurlers on the swiss balls that was after their entire squad had done what was basically a Curves circuit on machines.
I find it mad that when they push these players so hard(and at club level too) that the people that run the sessions are not more clued up. If the players are that commited and put in so much effort then the trainers should hold up their end of things and direct them in the right direction.
If they can pay managers then they can at least for pre season hire a real strength and conditioning coach.....oops did I say they pay managers?!! :rolleyes:

Hanley · 20-02-2011 01:58PM

discus wrote: »

Lets be fair here, if they've never been exposed to proper training, how can they be expected to just know about proper strength and conditioning?

how many on this very forum knew what a squat or deadlift was before they started reading the Fitness Forum regularly?

Yo, right here

WHIP IT! · 20-02-2011 02:08PM

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

thats the thing though when I seen the hurlers on the swiss balls that was after their entire squad had done what was basically a Curves circuit on machines.
I find it mad that when they push these players so hard(and at club level too) that the people that run the sessions are not more clued up. If the players are that commited and put in so much effort then the trainers should hold up their end of things and direct them in the right direction.
If they can pay managers then they can at least for pre season hire a real strength and conditioning coach.....oops did I say they pay managers?!! :rolleyes:

That's exactly it, first time I ever joined a gym was with my GAA club. The programme we were put on (by the gym manager) involved cardio first - interval running on a threadmill, some bike/cross-trainer work, followed by what I too would describe as a "Curves Circuit". I'm not sure we were even shown where the free weight section was.

We didn't know any better, I'd never seen the inside of a gym in my life and it took about six months of lurking and asking ridiculous questions here for me to figure out any kinda half-effective strength programme suitable for GAA. I still know very little - but alot more than I did then.

nice_guy80 · 20-02-2011 10:23PM

WHIP IT! wrote: »

That's exactly it, first time I ever joined a gym was with my GAA club. The programme we were put on (by the gym manager) involved cardio first - interval running on a threadmill, some bike/cross-trainer work, followed by what I too would describe as a "Curves Circuit". I'm not sure we were even shown where the free weight section was.

We didn't know any better, I'd never seen the inside of a gym in my life and it took about six months of lurking and asking ridiculous questions here for me to figure out any kinda half-effective strength programme suitable for GAA. I still know very little - but alot more than I did then.

Are those players from a county that actually wins things?? Probably not.

Strength and conditioning costs a good bit of money for a team.
Most county boards are trying to reduce costs at the moment.
Most inter county players have jobs to work in as well - unlike pro rugby players.
Most rural county boards do not have high performance well kitted out gyms like professional rugby teams do.

But, aside from all that... GAA managers are often reluctant to ask in outside help for fear that they will be shown up for their lack of knowledge or that their approach is not the correct one.

deadlybuzzman · 20-02-2011 11:11PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Are those players from a county that actually wins things?? Probably not.

Strength and conditioning costs a good bit of money for a team.
Most county boards are trying to reduce costs at the moment.
Most inter county players have jobs to work in as well - unlike pro rugby players.
Most rural county boards do not have high performance well kitted out gyms like professional rugby teams do.

But, aside from all that... GAA managers are often reluctant to ask in outside help for fear that they will be shown up for their lack of knowledge or that their approach is not the correct one.

a couple of sessions pre season couldnt cost much, and high preformance gym? all you need is a few barbells/hills/prowlers/oglesbys.
so what ends up happening is people that dont have expertise to do a big part of the job end up taking money that could be paid to someone that could help alot IF the boss was man enough to admit he doesnt know it all.

Poccington · 20-02-2011 11:20PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

But, aside from all that... GAA managers are often reluctant to ask in outside help for fear that they will be shown up for their lack of knowledge or that their approach is not the correct one.

I've noticed that quite a bit while playing. With some managers it's very much a case of "My way is right, I don't want to hear otherwise."

It's a shame really, as it holds back the team's development as a whole. As has been pointed out, it doesn't take much to get lads in for a few S&C sessions with someone who knows what they're doing.

WHIP IT! · 21-02-2011 11:04AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Are those players from a county that actually wins things?? Probably not.

Strength and conditioning costs a good bit of money for a team.
Most county boards are trying to reduce costs at the moment.
Most inter county players have jobs to work in as well - unlike pro rugby players.
Most rural county boards do not have high performance well kitted out gyms like professional rugby teams do.

But, aside from all that... GAA managers are often reluctant to ask in outside help for fear that they will be shown up for their lack of knowledge or that their approach is not the correct one.

I'm not sure if you quoted the correct post there but anyhoo - my point was, we, as players, didn't have any knowledge of S&C training for GAA and neither did our then manager... so he sent us somewhere where he thought we'd be properly directed, ie - the local gym with supposedly well-qualified instructors - as it turns out, not so well qualified!

stellios · 21-02-2011 11:08AM

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I'm not sure if you quoted the correct post there but anyhoo - my point was, we, as players, didn't have any knowledge of S&C training for GAA and neither did our then manager... so he sent us somewhere where he thought we'd be properly directed, ie - the local gym with supposedly well-qualified instructors - as it turns out, not so well qualified!

That is why this site is so useful. I think we are all agreed of the lack of knowledge. can some please point us in the right direction?

BlueIsland · 21-02-2011 11:41AM

Frogdog wrote: »

I've seen an intercounty footballer, of a very high standard, with some of his friends from his club, come into a gym down home quite often. All they do is bench press, sit ups and bicep curls and then a 15 minute jog on a treadmill.

No wonder footballers/hurlers are so far behind rugby players in terms of physical development if that's the attitude to strength training.

Hold on a second. this is a ridiculous statement. Are you comparing an amateur sportsperson who gets up for work on a monday morning the same as the rest of us to a guy who has a big fat IRFU contract??? because amateur rugby players are nowhere near as well conditioned as amateur g.a.a player comparing like with like! there are obviously midguided intercounty players who have poor programmes and ideas on conditioning. Like there are amateur rugby players who have poor programmes and ideas on conditioning. you cannot add pro rugby players to the equation who are getting world class training, programmes, technique sessions and most importantly the adequate rest and rehab to be brilliantly conditioned.

Frogdog · 21-02-2011 02:55PM

BlueIsland wrote: »

Hold on a second. this is a ridiculous statement. Are you comparing an amateur sportsperson who gets up for work on a monday morning the same as the rest of us to a guy who has a big fat IRFU contract??? because amateur rugby players are nowhere near as well conditioned as amateur g.a.a player comparing like with like! there are obviously midguided intercounty players who have poor programmes and ideas on conditioning. Like there are amateur rugby players who have poor programmes and ideas on conditioning. you cannot add pro rugby players to the equation who are getting world class training, programmes, technique sessions and most importantly the adequate rest and rehab to be brilliantly conditioned.

Hold on a second yourself. I never mentioned professional rugby players. Don't be putting words into my mouth.

Let's compare like with like for a second shall we? Do you know what - I'll even skew this in your favour.

Regarding the GAA, I'm from Kerry and I know a few intercounty players personally. I presume we'll both agree on the statement/assumption that Kerry would have a decent level of training for a GAA team, due to the number of games they play a year etc.?

Regarding rugby, I know a guy who plays with Shannon's third team. Not the first team, the third team.

They're all amateurs, agreed? However you might say that Kerry players would be of a higher standard in Gaelic football than a guy playing on the third team for Shannon is in amateur rugby.

In every way possible - fitness, strength, balance, mobility etc, the rugby guy is hands down in a better condition than any of the Kerry lads I know.

Now that's only one example, based on my experience. And I'm sure you might know some GAA players that are a lot better conditioned than some rugby players. But, and I don't have any statistics or studies to back this up, rugby players, comparing like for like, are far superior to GAA players when it comes to diet & nutrition, strength and conditioning, fitness........etc etc. That's my opinion.

stellios · 21-02-2011 04:48PM

Come on now, we are getting off topic...

Orando Broom · 21-02-2011 04:49PM

GAA management and training techniques is famous for fad witchcraft when it comes to training. A few years ago you didn't know how to kick a football unless you were on the Neutron diet. It is a hotbed of half truths and conjured 'fitness programmes'.

SanoVitae · 21-02-2011 05:03PM

Frogdog wrote: »

Rugby players, comparing like for like, are far superior to GAA players when it comes to diet & nutrition, strength and conditioning, fitness........etc etc.

When it comes to strength, I'd agree but not when it comes to conditioning. We have a couple of guys from the Cork team at SanoVitae and they are unbelievably fit. As for hurling players, they are incredibly fit at GAA level, way fitter than Rugby Union players.

If we're talking Rugby League, however, that's a totally different story - their Concept II rowing workouts are legendary....

Vorenus · 21-02-2011 06:52PM

Top level Gaa players are incredibly fit. One only has to look at the International rules series where they more than hold their own with full time professional athletes.

I think the days of inter county or even top club gaa players messing around with bicep curls and the like are on the way out. Armagh, Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Tyrone have brought the level of fitness in the gaa to professional levels. Take Armagh as an example.

Mike McGurn former S&C coach to the Ireland Rugby team and The All blacks is over fitness for all Armagh inter county teams. I would be of the belief that no amateur rugby team s fitness would match up to that of a serious inter county gaa teams. Just my opinion.

Frogdog · 21-02-2011 07:15PM

Vorenus, you're mixing up fitness and strength&conditioning in my opinion. If you're comparing an intercounty team with an AIL Division 1 club for fitness, maybe the GAA county would be fitter. As for strength & conditioning, I think rugby would be the clear winner. And I'm talking about similar body types/ weights, as in comparing any of the footballers to the backs of a rugby team. Like I said before, I know intercounty players still doing only bicep curls, sit ups and bench pressing every time I see them in the gym.

nice_guy80 · 21-02-2011 09:23PM

Football, hurling and rugby are not the same game

Players have different needs for all three sports.
You cannot really compare.

Hanley · 21-02-2011 11:38PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Football, hurling and rugby are not the same game

Players have different needs for all three sports.
You cannot really compare.

Bing-f*cking-go.

Even by the fitness forum's standards, this is ridiculous.

nice_guy80 · 22-02-2011 06:18PM

Hanley wrote: »

Bing-f*cking-go.

Even by the fitness forum's standards, this is ridiculous.

oops.
Have I pissed off someone?

SanoVitae · 22-02-2011 07:15PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

oops.
Have I pissed off someone?

Hanley is actually agreeing with you!

Imagine criticising bodybuilders for not knowing what they're doing and saying they should check out what powerlifters to find out what "proper" training is all about.

Just as the needs of bodybuilding and powerlifting are totally different, so are the needs to those involved in soccer, rugby and GAA. Therefore, the training for each is totally different too.

domino123 · 27-07-2011 10:09PM

mushykeogh wrote: »

Hard to say but i think it may have been here "3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise"

I suggest core isnt important? No, i was dismissive of ab crunches, core is crucial, ab crunches are not, id be recoomending planks, side planks, bridge, roll outs, med ball work, and anti rotation work as mentioned earlier. Crunches wont be worth a damn if you have a typical lower cross syndrome host of imbalances present.

Shoulders and triceps may be used to push a player off but not if there isnt a stable core present, and single leg stability and strength. Im sure youve heard the saying "you cant fire a canon from a canoe"!

As for researching before making statements, i have, im a past student of pat flanagan, involved in the fitness prep of kerry football in there last two all irelands wins, iv also attended workshops with him, they focussed alot more leg stability and strength work than upper body outdated workouts. As ian Mckeown tthe former lead strength and conditioning lead at sini recommended in a presentation for gaa, work on single leg stability then strength, core strength and endurance, general kinetic chain function,and then upper body function. I can email it to any one who would like it.

hi could you email this programme...only reading this forum now so i know its a bit old ...thanks.....il pm u my email

nice_guy80 · 28-07-2011 12:08AM

I'll give you an example of why you shouldn't use someone else's program and why a one size fits all doesn't work

Recently myself and 5 team-mates (all very sporty and gym goers) decided to get ourselves assessed by a professional trainer who has indepth knowledge of strength and conditioning for playing sport (we got a good group rate)

It was amazing the difference in:

What each of us was capable of doing in the tests eg my hamstrings are not flexible and my hips are not firing correctly. however, compared to my pals, my shoulders, and core strength are much better.
the programs each of us got vary quite a bit - in terms of warm ups, stretches and weighted exercises. only for we got tested we'd all be doing the same thing

Pace2008 · 28-07-2011 12:59AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Football, hurling and rugby are not the same game

Players have different needs for all three sports.
You cannot really compare.

Lionel Messi's a pretty nifty soccer player, but imagine what he could do packing an extra 5 stone of RAW MUSCLE.

Weight Training for GAA player

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