Weight Training for GAA player

mectavba

Im going back playing GAA in a couple of weeks and have been getting back in the gym the last few weeks but im wondering what programme would be best suited to me.

Last season I was getting to the gym on a Mon, Wed, Fri on most weeks with training on tues and thurs and match at weekend (on a very good week that is)

I used to just do a full body workout as in 1 or 2 exercises per muscle category on my 3 visits each week. I found it worked well enough to a point, but I could have got better results. Now im thinking this year should I alternate the muscle groups each visits as in: Mon Back and Chest, wed Legs, Fri arms and shoulders...or something like that? Also how often should I be doing core workouts and what are the best programmes?

Lastly, regarding supplements etc. which would be most advisable for a GAA player. I want to bulk up but at the same time want to remain mobile and not too heavy. Last year I used maximuscle cyclone for a couple of months and found it very good, although it is quite expensive. I saw holland & barrett advertising a whey protein for 20 euro, but it is this more for people into just pure bodybuilding? Anyone tried this one?

Thanks for reading and any advice will be greatly appreciated.

beartooth

Lots of squats and other compound exercises (bench, chin ups,military press) is the way to go, that will increase your overall stability so you will be able to take tackles better.
With supplements i was taking similar stuff to cyclone from myprotein.co.uk i think it was called hurricane. It tasted horrible, but if its a cheap substitute to cyclone you are looking that is the one to go for.

mectavba

Cheers, that Hurricaine stuff does seem to be a good cheaper alternative for maximuscle...do u have to order it online or can u get it in any shops in DUblin?

Ye those are the kind of exercises I would do, but I what I want to know is am I better off doing the same ones each time I go to the gym or should I concentrate on different muscle groups on each of my 3 visits in the week?

beartooth

I'm by no means an expert on this but what works for me is concentrate on usually the same few major exercises, i do a heavy session, followed by a slightly lighter session with a few different things thrown in (jump squats, cleans, or snatches). The next heavy session i try to push thing on.
You have to buy from their website, its good with quick deliver, alot of posters on here have a discount code on the bottom of their posts.

Kinemove

hi mectavba,

It sounds like you are planning to train for strength/power and supplement yourself for volume at the same time?

I would first choose a goal: strength, volume or maintenance (i would surely recommend strength if you have enough weeks).

Split routines are definitely a good idea and just googling 'training program' you wil get loads of results on diferent options.

Br,

ceoexec2

stay away from supplements other than multi vits and protein drinks

trapsagenius

ceoexec2 wrote: »

stay away from supplements other than multi vits and protein drinks

Ignore that comment.

Like most people, I would say Bench, Squat and Deadlift are the most important.Make sure not to negate your triceps and especially your hamstrings(being a footballer and all).I would also recommend doing around 3-4 exercises for each muscle group of around 3 sets of 8-10 reps.

fullback4glin

ceoexec2 wrote: »

stay away from supplements other than multi vits and protein drinks

What do you consider to be a "supplement" and a "protein drink", and why should the OP stay away from the former??

ceoexec2

trapsagenius wrote: »

Ignore that comment.

Like most people, I would say Bench, Squat and Deadlift are the most important.Make sure not to negate your triceps and especially your hamstrings(being a footballer and all).I would also recommend doing around 3-4 exercises for each muscle group of around 3 sets of 8-10 reps.

total bull****. the above constitutes a bodybuilding routine and why triceps would be a priority for a footballer i dont know.

look up periodization for sports by tudor bompa and starting strength by mark rippetoe. they will give you a lot more insight into what you need

as regard supplements - you do not need to be bulky to play gaa. you need to be strong , fast and mobile. bulk for its own sake is pointless

forgot to mention this site is a good resource for gaa fitness
http://www.gaelicperformance.ie/coaching.asp

do not do split routines cos you will end up training everyday between weights and fitness sessions and become exhausted/burnt out. rest is as important as the session itself. learn to plan your training and read up on periodization as much as you can

mectavba

Thanks for the replies.

Just on the split sessions...I was in the gym last night, did back and chest exercises, about 4-5 on each at about 3 reps of 10.

If im just gonna be getting to the gym 3 times a week, am i correct that under the split session idea I would leave my back and chest til next week?
Sorry if this sounds stupid, I've never tried a split session routine. It just seems strange that it would be more beneficial working a muscle group once a week (albeit a lot harder) than 3 times a week.

Just to the above poster...ive found strong triceps to be massively important playing GAA...you become much more effective putting your hands out getting the first tackle in

fullback4glin

ceoexec2 wrote: »

as regard supplements - you do not need to be bulky to play gaa. you need to be strong , fast and mobile. bulk for its own sake is pointless

Supplements don't have to make you bulky, can supplements not make you strong ,fast and mobile??

Roper

Where to start?

There's a lot of misconceptions here, probably too many to deal with in one post. Start here with the questions Will outlines here http://informedperformance.com/will/2009/12/gaa-strength-conditioning/
If you know the destination, it's much easier to make a map.

I don't think you really know what you want out of a programme

corkcomp

fullback4glin wrote: »

Supplements don't have to make you bulky, can supplements not make you strong ,fast and mobile??

so can a good diet man

FTA69

ceoexec2 wrote: »

total bull****. the above constitutes a bodybuilding routine

Not necessarily, you're talking about getting strong but squats, deadlifts and bench are the best exercises for gaining strength. Similarly bodybuilding etc generally concerns isolation exercises etc. Both the Cork senior footballers and Waterford senior hurlers incorporate those exercises into their training regimes, and rightly so.

Raging Bob

That's why they're called supplements. Supplementing a good diet.

Kinemove

for what i can deduct from he thread so far; you are also interested in volume gaining for whichever reasons. go for a first strength cycle, it will help both your performance and your volume. get a 4 weeks cycle for volume afterwards if thats the aim. if you dont have enough weeks just leave the strength cycle for the next gap; better to do it well than to do it anyhow.
supplementation can be both benefitial and detrimental, it all depends on the use you give it. you will need protein (or a free buffet at ur disposal) if you want some volume.

also, in my opinion two day split is much recommended for strength (when combined with training)/four day split for volume

podge57

Kinemove wrote: »

for what i can deduct from he thread so far; you are also interested in volume gaining for whichever reasons. go for a first strength cycle, it will help both your performance and your volume. get a 4 weeks cycle for volume afterwards if thats the aim. if you dont have enough weeks just leave the strength cycle for the next gap; better to do it well than to do it anyhow.
supplementation can be both benefitial and detrimental, it all depends on the use you give it. you will need protein (or a free buffet at ur disposal) if you want some volume.

also, in my opinion two day split is much recommended for strength (when combined with training)/four day split for volume

what exactly is "volume gaining"? Do you mean increasing work capacity or something?

I'm not really sure how you could qualify volume as a goal...

Kinemove

ok dude not meaning VOmax here; read volume=bulk

Hynesy

As a qualified fitness instructor and GAA player ill try to answer some of your questions. Im currently 3/4 way through my own gym program for the year and have gained about 1/2 stone in lean gains.

1) Don not exercise the same muscle groups more than once in 5 or 6 days. You need to allow time for muscles to heal and recover stronger! If you dont allow time to heal you may in fact put yourself at risk of damaging muscle and end up injuring yourself or breaking down existing muscle.

Try doing a session on legs one day and upper body the next. Or else do opposite exercises on alternate days. Eg triceps and pecs one day and biceps and back muscles the next.

2) core exercises should be done every session because these exercises are generally high reps and low strain. Make sure to do one back exercise for every two abdominal exercise you do. eg crunch, leg lift & back extension.

3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise.

8 sessions of low reps higher weights (8 reps) combined with decending sets. when you've lifted the heavy weight 8 times, drop to 2/3 of tha weight and work to exhaustion. Then drop to 1/2 original and work to exhaustion.

(Make sure to ask gym instructor for advice with this)

4) if you want to supplement your diet try a whey protein formula. whey is easily digested and should be taken in morning and after workouts. Combine this with slow relasing proteings found in eggs, red meat and fish and youll be gaining muscle and strength in no time.

gonnaplayrugby

bull**** starting strength u do squats 3 times a week

bubbleking

Hynesy wrote: »

As a qualified fitness instructor and GAA player ill try to answer some of your questions. Im currently 3/4 way through my own gym program for the year and have gained about 1/2 stone in lean gains.

1) Don not exercise the same muscle groups more than once in 5 or 6 days. You need to allow time for muscles to heal and recover stronger! If you dont allow time to heal you may in fact put yourself at risk of damaging muscle and end up injuring yourself or breaking down existing muscle.

Try doing a session on legs one day and upper body the next. Or else do opposite exercises on alternate days. Eg triceps and pecs one day and biceps and back muscles the next.

2) core exercises should be done every session because these exercises are generally high reps and low strain. Make sure to do one back exercise for every two abdominal exercise you do. eg crunch, leg lift & back extension.

3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise.

8 sessions of low reps higher weights (8 reps) combined with decending sets. when you've lifted the heavy weight 8 times, drop to 2/3 of tha weight and work to exhaustion. Then drop to 1/2 original and work to exhaustion.

(Make sure to ask gym instructor for advice with this)

4) if you want to supplement your diet try a whey protein formula. whey is easily digested and should be taken in morning and after workouts. Combine this with slow relasing proteings found in eggs, red meat and fish and youll be gaining muscle and strength in no time.

i disagree with the majority of this

brianthebard

what a cluster**** of a thread.

Barry.Oglesby

Agreed. This should actually be called "GAA Training- why most people get nothing from their training"

mushykeogh

Hynesy wrote: »

As a qualified fitness instructor and GAA player ill try to answer some of your questions. Im currently 3/4 way through my own gym program for the year and have gained about 1/2 stone in lean gains.

1) Don not exercise the same muscle groups more than once in 5 or 6 days. You need to allow time for muscles to heal and recover stronger! If you dont allow time to heal you may in fact put yourself at risk of damaging muscle and end up injuring yourself or breaking down existing muscle.

Try doing a session on legs one day and upper body the next. Or else do opposite exercises on alternate days. Eg triceps and pecs one day and biceps and back muscles the next.

2) core exercises should be done every session because these exercises are generally high reps and low strain. Make sure to do one back exercise for every two abdominal exercise you do. eg crunch, leg lift & back extension.

3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise.

8 sessions of low reps higher weights (8 reps) combined with decending sets. when you've lifted the heavy weight 8 times, drop to 2/3 of tha weight and work to exhaustion. Then drop to 1/2 original and work to exhaustion.

(Make sure to ask gym instructor for advice with this)

4) if you want to supplement your diet try a whey protein formula. whey is easily digested and should be taken in morning and after workouts. Combine this with slow relasing proteings found in eggs, red meat and fish and youll be gaining muscle and strength in no time.

Sweet baby jesus and the orphans, pecs, biceps and triceps, crunches? id recommend you watch a dvd of a gaa game and try and work out how relevant these muscles are to a gaa player (heres a hint, not very) this is just a build some muscles for the beach program. And 3 sets of 15 for big strength gains?? your winding me up.

Chet Zar

Hynesy wrote: »

As a qualified fitness instructor and GAA player ill try to answer some of your questions. Im currently 3/4 way through my own gym program for the year and have gained about 1/2 stone in lean gains.

1) Don not exercise the same muscle groups more than once in 5 or 6 days. You need to allow time for muscles to heal and recover stronger! If you dont allow time to heal you may in fact put yourself at risk of damaging muscle and end up injuring yourself or breaking down existing muscle.

Try doing a session on legs one day and upper body the next. Or else do opposite exercises on alternate days. Eg triceps and pecs one day and biceps and back muscles the next.

2) core exercises should be done every session because these exercises are generally high reps and low strain. Make sure to do one back exercise for every two abdominal exercise you do. eg crunch, leg lift & back extension.

3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise.

8 sessions of low reps higher weights (8 reps) combined with decending sets. when you've lifted the heavy weight 8 times, drop to 2/3 of tha weight and work to exhaustion. Then drop to 1/2 original and work to exhaustion.

(Make sure to ask gym instructor for advice with this)

4) if you want to supplement your diet try a whey protein formula. whey is easily digested and should be taken in morning and after workouts. Combine this with slow relasing proteings found in eggs, red meat and fish and youll be gaining muscle and strength in no time.

Genericus Maximus!

BlueIsland

I agree. some of the advice is actually beyond bad!!In gym twice outside training and matches. this my routines

5x5 weighted chin ups
5x5 barbell squat jumps
5x5 weighted dips
Dumbell Lunge walk 5x6
Bench press 3x5
3xmax horiszontal pull ups

J-Fit

Hynesy wrote: »

As a qualified fitness instructor and GAA player ill try to answer some of your questions. Im currently 3/4 way through my own gym program for the year and have gained about 1/2 stone in lean gains.

1) Don not exercise the same muscle groups more than once in 5 or 6 days. You need to allow time for muscles to heal and recover stronger! If you dont allow time to heal you may in fact put yourself at risk of damaging muscle and end up injuring yourself or breaking down existing muscle.

Try doing a session on legs one day and upper body the next. Or else do opposite exercises on alternate days. Eg triceps and pecs one day and biceps and back muscles the next.

2) core exercises should be done every session because these exercises are generally high reps and low strain. Make sure to do one back exercise for every two abdominal exercise you do. eg crunch, leg lift & back extension.

3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise.

8 sessions of low reps higher weights (8 reps) combined with decending sets. when you've lifted the heavy weight 8 times, drop to 2/3 of tha weight and work to exhaustion. Then drop to 1/2 original and work to exhaustion.

(Make sure to ask gym instructor for advice with this)

4) if you want to supplement your diet try a whey protein formula. whey is easily digested and should be taken in morning and after workouts. Combine this with slow relasing proteings found in eggs, red meat and fish and youll be gaining muscle and strength in no time.

I honestly thought this was a troll?? Really.

BlueIsland wrote: »

I agree. some of the advice is actually beyond bad!!In gym twice outside training and matches. this my routines

5x5 weighted chin ups
5x5 barbell squat jumps
5x5 weighted dips
Dumbell Lunge walk 5x6
Bench press 3x5
3xmax horiszontal pull ups

This isn't the answer either. It's better than above but its likely too volumnous for in-season training and it's basically a hybrid powerlifting/'insert programme here' programme. Full marks for simplicity though, that's the key and I'd say you've seen some gains with this and would probably continue to.

Med Balls (if your gym allows them), heavy single leg squat and deadlift variations, standing bi and uni-lateral press variations, anti-rotational core work and Olympic lifting if and when you're ready for it would greatly enhance this.

God, none of that sounds "simple" but really it is!

solway

Jazus can someone step forward and make sense of this thread. Everyone seems to be contradicting everyone. Can anyone give a programme that 90% at least agree on :mad:

Chet Zar

mectavba wrote: »

Im going back playing GAA in a couple of weeks and have been getting back in the gym the last few weeks but im wondering what programme would be best suited to me.

Last season I was getting to the gym on a Mon, Wed, Fri on most weeks with training on tues and thurs and match at weekend (on a very good week that is)

I used to just do a full body workout as in 1 or 2 exercises per muscle category on my 3 visits each week. I found it worked well enough to a point, but I could have got better results. Now im thinking this year should I alternate the muscle groups each visits as in: Mon Back and Chest, wed Legs, Fri arms and shoulders...or something like that? Also how often should I be doing core workouts and what are the best programmes?

Lastly, regarding supplements etc. which would be most advisable for a GAA player. I want to bulk up but at the same time want to remain mobile and not too heavy. Last year I used maximuscle cyclone for a couple of months and found it very good, although it is quite expensive. I saw holland & barrett advertising a whey protein for 20 euro, but it is this more for people into just pure bodybuilding? Anyone tried this one?

Thanks for reading and any advice will be greatly appreciated.

solway wrote: »

Jazus can someone step forward and make sense of this thread. Everyone seems to be contradicting everyone. Can anyone give a programme that 90% at least agree on :mad:

The issue is that the OP isn't even telling us what he wants to achieve. All that I get from his post is that he wants to 'bulk up while remaining mobile' which is like saying 'I want to be bigger but not slower'. You've got to give us more than that.

What I would say broadly is - take 3 benchmarks of strength, aerobic and anaerobic fitness to start with.

1) Take 3 big bang exercises and give yourself x amount of time to get stronger at them

2) Take a distance and complete it more quickly after x amount of time

3) Row x distance faster than you did 3 weeks ago, 6 weeks ago

Point is, if you have a goal, lay it out. Be specific and a picture will start to come together. If you just want general results, then do general stuff.

JJayoo

Jesus Leave Hynesy alone, He clearly stated that he was about to talk random crap

As a qualified fitness instructor

No offence to the many good fitness instructors that post.

I think diet is key when tring to juggle weights and GAA.

If i had training at 8pm, which involves alot of running, i want nothing in my stomach, so your last meal might be at 6pm. By the time you have finished everything its coming close to 10pm, then you shower go home and it might be close to 10.30-11.00 before you eat.

So fasting from 6pm till 10.30, with a lot of cardio and sprints, 3 times a week plus a match. Its tough on the body.

Transform

gonnaplayrugby wrote: »

bull**** starting strength u do squats 3 times a week

totally agreed - that post from hynesy is full of holes

mectavba

OK didnt this post would bee so controversial!! Sorry if i wasnt clear.

Im basically looking to do a weight programme 3 times a week to improve my general upperbody and core strength. Im not looking to become a weight-lifting champ, but by developing upperbodt and core strength there is bound to be some bulking up.

I dont agree that some muscle groups are unnecessary for GAA, the stronger you are the better. I also know a lot of club and county senior players that use supplements and they are regarded very importantly by some.

I guess the main bit of advice that im looking for is whether i should be doing split sessions or full body sessions, given that i will make the gym 2/3 times a week. Targets would be, I suppose, being able to lift approx 30% heavier than what i am now in 6-8 weeks.

Also, im a bit uneasy about doing weights for my legs, any time i've tried them before, i've gotten injuries, particularly my knees. I figure im training my legs heavily in football sessions and matches so they dont need the workout as much as core and upperbody. Anyone any views on this???

J-Fit

mectavba wrote: »

OK didnt this post would bee so controversial!! Sorry if i wasnt clear.

Im basically looking to do a weight programme 3 times a week to improve my general upperbody and core strength. Im not looking to become a weight-lifting champ, but by developing upperbodt and core strength there is bound to be some bulking up.

I dont agree that some muscle groups are unnecessary for GAA, the stronger you are the better. I also know a lot of club and county senior players that use supplements and they are regarded very importantly by some.

I guess the main bit of advice that im looking for is whether i should be doing split sessions or full body sessions, given that i will make the gym 2/3 times a week. Targets would be, I suppose, being able to lift approx 30% heavier than what i am now in 6-8 weeks.

Also, im a bit uneasy about doing weights for my legs, any time i've tried them before, i've gotten injuries, particularly my knees. I figure im training my legs heavily in football sessions and matches so they dont need the workout as much as core and upperbody. Anyone any views on this???

Yeah, you need to train your legs.

Chet Zar

mectavba wrote: »

OK didnt this post would bee so controversial!! Sorry if i wasnt clear.

Im basically looking to do a weight programme 3 times a week to improve my general upperbody and core strength. Im not looking to become a weight-lifting champ, but by developing upperbodt and core strength there is bound to be some bulking up.

I dont agree that some muscle groups are unnecessary for GAA, the stronger you are the better. I also know a lot of club and county senior players that use supplements and they are regarded very importantly by some.

I guess the main bit of advice that im looking for is whether i should be doing split sessions or full body sessions, given that i will make the gym 2/3 times a week. Targets would be, I suppose, being able to lift approx 30% heavier than what i am now in 6-8 weeks.

Also, im a bit uneasy about doing weights for my legs, any time i've tried them before, i've gotten injuries, particularly my knees. I figure im training my legs heavily in football sessions and matches so they dont need the workout as much as core and upperbody. Anyone any views on this???

As regards your legs, find what works for you. Common sense would say that it probably isn't the best idea to deadlift or squat heavy the day before or two days before a big important match. But if you have a match on a Saturday, then why not train your legs in the gym on a Monday or Tuesday.

If you want to get stronger, train the big movements. Big movements = exercises that train the biggest muscles of the body. Bigger muscles stronger = overall stronger body. You could look at two heavy sessions and one lighter session each week:

A)

Squat
Bench/Dips
Pullups/Chinups
Some isolation work



Deadlift
Shoulder Press
Ab work (reverse curls/plank etc)
Bodyweight exercises - push-ups etc


Workout C could then be a combo of some of the above, some other exercises and some pre-hab (injury prevention work).

Keep reps generally low on heavy days.

Hynesy

mushykeogh wrote: »

Sweet baby jesus and the orphans, pecs, biceps and triceps, crunches? id recommend you watch a dvd of a gaa game and try and work out how relevant these muscles are to a gaa player (heres a hint, not very) this is just a build some muscles for the beach program. And 3 sets of 15 for big strength gains?? your winding me up.

Honestly you have no concept of the GAA game at all. Upperbody strength is hugely important in gaelic footballl. In case you didnt notice its a pretty rough game, an adequate layer of muscle is required to protect the rib cage and shoulders from injury. Breaking a tackle or holding off another player requires tricep and deltoid strength does it not?

And to suggest core strength isnt important for GAA? Are you insane? Weak core muscles are linked to higher risk of hamstring tears, groin injuries and hernias, all of which are very common among players of games requiring a lot of running and changes of direction. I suggest researcing before you make stupid statements like this.

And where did i suggest reps of 15 were for strength and bulk gains? The original poster commented that he was preparing for the GAA season with a some gym training. This would indicate that he only weight trains sporadically during the year. Up to 60% of strength gains are made by adaptations in the nervous sytems in the muscles. Hence if the person is starting out and does not have at least 6 sessions of preparotary training involving high reps and low strain they will find it extremely slow in gaining strength and bulk if they start straight into low rep heavy load training because they will spend 5 or 6 days recovering after each session as the muscles havent prepared for heavy training.

it is very easy to knock someones methods without actually giving anything constructive in return. I only responded to this after seeing the level of ignorance out there.

Transform

Hynesy wrote: »

Honestly you have no concept of the GAA game at all. Upperbody strength is hugely important in gaelic footballl. In case you didnt notice its a pretty rough game, an adequate layer of muscle is required to protect the rib cage and shoulders from injury. Breaking a tackle or holding off another player requires tricep and deltoid strength does it not?

And to suggest core strength isnt important for GAA? Are you insane? Weak core muscles are linked to higher risk of hamstring tears, groin injuries and hernias, all of which are very common among players of games requiring a lot of running and changes of direction. I suggest researcing before you make stupid statements like this.

And where did i suggest reps of 15 were for strength and bulk gains? The original poster commented that he was preparing for the GAA season with a some gym training. This would indicate that he only weight trains sporadically during the year. Up to 60% of strength gains are made by adaptations in the nervous sytems in the muscles. Hence if the person is starting out and does not have at least 6 sessions of preparotary training involving high reps and low strain they will find it extremely slow in gaining strength and bulk if they start straight into low rep heavy load training because they will spend 5 or 6 days recovering after each session as the muscles havent prepared for heavy training.

it is very easy to knock someones methods without actually giving anything constructive in return. I only responded to this after seeing the level of ignorance out there.

the level of ignorance may be out there to some degree but the majority of the replies have been helpful for the info given.

Yes work your legs please - if you are getting injuries you are just not doing them correctly.

mushykeogh

Hynesy wrote: »

And where did i suggest reps of 15 were for strength and bulk gains?

Hard to say but i think it may have been here "3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise"

I suggest core isnt important? No, i was dismissive of ab crunches, core is crucial, ab crunches are not, id be recoomending planks, side planks, bridge, roll outs, med ball work, and anti rotation work as mentioned earlier. Crunches wont be worth a damn if you have a typical lower cross syndrome host of imbalances present.

Shoulders and triceps may be used to push a player off but not if there isnt a stable core present, and single leg stability and strength. Im sure youve heard the saying "you cant fire a canon from a canoe"!

As for researching before making statements, i have, im a past student of pat flanagan, involved in the fitness prep of kerry football in there last two all irelands wins, iv also attended workshops with him, they focussed alot more leg stability and strength work than upper body outdated workouts. As ian Mckeown tthe former lead strength and conditioning lead at sini recommended in a presentation for gaa, work on single leg stability then strength, core strength and endurance, general kinetic chain function,and then upper body function. I can email it to any one who would like it.

Hanley

Hynesy wrote: »

I only responded to this after seeing the level of ignorance out there.

The irony is delicious.

Hanley

mushykeogh wrote: »

Hard to say but i think it may have been here "3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise"

I suggest core isnt important? No, i was dismissive of ab crunches, core is crucial, ab crunches are not, id be recoomending planks, side planks, bridge, roll outs, med ball work, and anti rotation work as mentioned earlier. Crunches wont be worth a damn if you have a typical lower cross syndrome host of imbalances present.

Shoulders and triceps may be used to push a player off but not if there isnt a stable core present, and single leg stability and strength. Im sure youve heard the saying "you cant fire a canon from a canoe"!

As for researching before making statements, i have, im a past student of pat flanagan, involved in the fitness prep of kerry football in there last two all irelands wins, iv also attended workshops with him, they focussed alot more leg stability and strength work than upper body outdated workouts. As ian Mckeown tthe former lead strength and conditioning lead at sini recommended in a presentation for gaa, work on single leg stability then strength, core strength and endurance, general kinetic chain function,and then upper body function. I can email it to any one who would like it.

Nice post!

Hynesy

mushykeogh wrote: »

Hard to say but i think it may have been here "3) If you want big strength gains and muscle gain you should use roughly the following plan. 6 sessions of high reps (15 reps) and 3 sets of each exercise"
.

You are taking this quote out of context. The first 6 sessions are merely preparatory work which im sure with all your expertese you would reccomend to anyone starting out on a weights program.

You ignored that it was followed by a series of sessions using higher weights and lower reps with decending sets to promote muscle growth and strength gains. Again feel free to constructively criticise this.

I would then reccommend a phase of concentric strength training coupled with explosive power work.

And i agree with you that crunches are of limited value to overall core strength, i merely gave the example of a crunch, leg raise and back extenson as an abdominal and lower back exercise combination.

J-Fit

Stop the penis measuring lads it serves no purpose. Hynesy, your theory is all spot on but your application is not. You strike me as a guy who has done all his homework but has not had the oppurtunity to apply any of your knowledge. Much of your info seems to come from core texts (Essentials of Strength and Conditioning?) and much of the time these sources are so far behind the curve I'm surprised they are still in print. You'll soon learn that bicep curls and crunches will keep a guy in the gym for a good deal longer than he needs to be when there are alternative exercises that can exercise several areas in one. Crunches are a redundant exercise that are fast being proven to be a source of vertebral disc rupture. There are a lot of good books out there and I'd recommend anything by Alwyn Cosgrove, Eric Cressey or Mike Boyle.

Transform

J-Fit wrote: »

Stop the penis measuring lads it serves no purpose. Hynesy, your theory is all spot on but your application is not. You strike me as a guy who has done all his homework but has not had the oppurtunity to apply any of your knowledge. Much of your info seems to come from core texts (Essentials of Strength and Conditioning?) and much of the time these sources are so far behind the curve I'm surprised they are still in print. You'll soon learn that bicep curls and crunches will keep a guy in the gym for a good deal longer than he needs to be when there are alternative exercises that can exercise several areas in one. Crunches are a redundant exercise that are fast being proven to be a source of vertebral disc rupture. There are a lot of good books out there and I'd recommend anything by Alwyn Cosgrove, Eric Cressey or Mike Boyle.

best post ever .... well in a while

Colm_OReilly

Yep, agree. Hynesy the lads here aren't trying to knock you down, just they/we have first hand experience with personal training and strength & conditioning. It does trump book knowledge.

bubbleking

Colm_OReilly wrote: »

Yep, agree. Hynesy the lads here aren't trying to knock you down, just they/we have first hand experience with personal training and strength & conditioning. It does trump book knowledge.

+ 1 i have the CSCS (certified strength and conditioning specialist) qualification - but some of the theory is so dated its ridiculous. not brown nosing but iv leaned more about the application of the knowledge from this forum. In saying that the books do give you a firm base for understanding the science of it all.

Hynesy

J-Fit wrote: »

You'll soon learn that bicep curls and crunches will keep a guy in the gym for a good deal longer than he needs to be when there are alternative exercises that can exercise several areas in one. Crunches are a redundant exercise that are fast being proven to be a source of vertebral disc rupture. There are a lot of good books out there and I'd recommend anything by Alwyn Cosgrove, Eric Cressey or Mike Boyle.

Again i never mentioned bicep curls, so please dont insinuate that i advocated them as a worthwhile exercise for a GAA player!:rolleyes:

In fact the only exercise i mentioned was a crunch, leg raise and back extension which i only gave as an example! I generally dont reccommend isolation exercises for team sports players.

My main advice was not to do with specific exercises. From what i see the majority of team sports players do the same type of exercises, squats, dead lift, lunges, bench, pull ups, dips, seated row, upright rows, shoulder press, supine and prone flyes as well as core stability work and countless variations of the above.

I was trying to get across its how you do these exercises that will stimulate gains in strength and bulk. Nothing else. I see guys all the time complaining they they are not making progress etc.

I am not going to offer advanced or specific advice to anyone because i dont know them personally or their area of weakness etc.

And any person genuinely interested in the field knows not to limit their learning to one or two sources. I would be interested in learning a lot more about plyometrics so if any of you have some good info sources on these let me know.:)

Transform

Hynesy wrote: »

Again i never mentioned bicep curls, so please dont insinuate that i advocated them as a worthwhile exercise for a GAA player!:rolleyes:

In fact the only exercise i mentioned was a crunch, leg raise and back extension which i only gave as an example! I generally dont reccommend isolation exercises for team sports players.

My main advice was not to do with specific exercises. From what i see the majority of team sports players do the same type of exercises, squats, dead lift, lunges, bench, pull ups, dips, seated row, upright rows, shoulder press, supine and prone flyes as well as core stability work and countless variations of the above.

I was trying to get across its how you do these exercises that will stimulate gains in strength and bulk. Nothing else. I see guys all the time complaining they they are not making progress etc.

I am not going to offer advanced or specific advice to anyone because i dont know them personally or their area of weakness etc.

And any person genuinely interested in the field knows not to limit their learning to one or two sources. I would be interested in learning a lot more about plyometrics so if any of you have some good info sources on these let me know.:)

to be honest GAA guys would get more from doing some olympic lifting than plyos IMO.

Welcome to the wonderful world of training clients or watching people train in general - they do not always make the progress they want, they at times want to train how they want and avoid working eyeballs out on the basics so they end up doing bloody plank position for a minute and talk of training the 'core'

Finally, there is no need to say things like 'I would then reccommend a phase of concentric strength training coupled with explosive power work.
as the people who train clients regularly would normally never (in my experience) use those terms so we can keep it simple for the client/team.

Any of the gaa, soccer etc players i have worked with ALL could do with getting much stronger, wayyy more flexible and improving their ability to recover from short bursts of activity.

Barry.Oglesby

This really is a train wreck of a thread.

OP and Hynesy,
You're welcome to pop down to our gym for a visit anytime to see what GAA players are actually doing with an actual S&C programme and actual S&C coaching. I agree with Jfit, far too much willy waving and not enough discussion going on here.

BobbyOLeary

mushykeogh wrote: »

I can email it to any one who would like it.

Hey, can you send that on to me please? I'll PM you my email in a minute. Cheers.

solway

Transform wrote: »

to be honest GAA guys would get more from doing some olympic lifting than plyos IMO.

Welcome to the wonderful world of training clients or watching people train in general - they do not always make the progress they want, they at times want to train how they want and avoid working eyeballs out on the basics so they end up doing bloody plank position for a minute and talk of training the 'core'

Finally, there is no need to say things like 'I would then reccommend a phase of concentric strength training coupled with explosive power work.
as the people who train clients regularly would normally never (in my experience) use those terms so we can keep it simple for the client/team.

Any of the gaa, soccer etc players i have worked with ALL could do with getting much stronger, wayyy more flexible and improving their ability to recover from short bursts of activity.

Could you give a few other pointers towards training the core if your not convinced with the plank and also reccommend a phase of concentric strength training and explosive power work.

I work the core most days with 10kg weight on my back while doing the plank. I hold plank position for 60 seconds
Raise right hand 15 sec
Raise lefft hand 15 sec
" " right leg 15 sec
" " left leg 15 sec
" " right leg left hand 15 sec
" " left leg right hand 15 sec
and a further 30 seconds plank to finish off.
Am i wasting my time with this

Transform

not a wast of time but where is the progression?

A 40kg weight?? would be better to have a double body weight deadlift.

imo if you cant do hanging leg raises you really need to do some proper exercise and I am not talking about just isolating the core.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-wZCuSFSrs

my videos should help also -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOhyofgPh-4

hanging knees to elbows done in a 4 exercise work complex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-cUBizG5Bw

Plenty of work there

slingerz

As a fellow GAA player and one who is studying the fitness routines and programs that the inter county sides are into these days i hope i can provide a little insight.

Firstly, working all muscle groups and generally becoming stronger overall is a good idea. Doing countless bicep curls isnt going to win you an All-Star however.

Exercises such as the olympic lift, squats etc are important to a GAA player for overall strenght and stability.

In recent years the obsession that the northern counties have adopted is one of heavy contact and needing the abilty to take and receive big hits. I recall Paul Galvin highlighting a hit he received in the 1st half against Armagh in 2004 i think which left him unable to use his left arm for the rest of the first half. The following winter after being bullied by Armagh, Kerry focused on core strenght and stability.

This is an area that you should focus on for your pre-season GAA training. By all means keep training the shoulders, arms, chest etc but Core exercises need to be part of your routine every time you hit the gym in the off season. A number of GAA teams are using Pilates in the winter as the beginning prepartion for the coming season.

Also, Gaelic football is becoming more about mobilty and speed. You will need to improve your aerobic and anerobic fitness. These two will go hand in hand however. You should try googling Speed, Agility, Quickness(SAQ) training and adopt that into your routine. The beach weights wont do you any harm and can help but you shouldnt get hung up about these areas if GAA is your goal.

I believe this thread is most likely a moot conversation at his point as your side has most likely returned to the field. As other posters have indicated, rest is as important to your performance as training. Burn out is not the goal and you should remember that.