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The Geniuses' Thread

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Can anyone help with this? :o

    2 + Square Root3 is a root of the equation x^2 - 4x + c = 0, where c is a real number.
    Find the value of c and write down the other root.

    Ok so, I get it down to c=1, which means that the root must be 2 - Square Root3, so what I'm wondering is, if that were to come up in an exam, but the answer was c=3, how would I find the other root? :confused:


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Let c=3 and re-write the equation to suit that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Let c=3 and re-write the equation to suit that?

    Oh I see, thanks. :)

    It's just all to do with the minus b formula so. :) I don't think they'd ever put it up on ordinary level, but better to be safe than sorry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    How odd, I was just coming here for maths help myself.

    I've a note scribbled in my maths notebook, in a little faraway corner, that the exponential (e) raised to the power of a natural log, say of x (ln x) is equal to x.

    i.e e^lnx = x

    or, to use a constant

    e^ln5 = 5

    I've obviously forgotten this, as this was news to me (it's not in any of the T&T books, as far as I know). My calculator is unwilling to verify it too, helpfully letting me know "SYNTAX ERROR". So what I'm wondering is, is this true or is this some mistaken note I scribbled down eons ago?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    If anyone has a casual interest in Philosophy I'd recommend watching this series. It deals with Nietzsche, Martin Heidegger, and Jean-Paul Sarte and explains their lives and opinions in a very accessible way (Which suits me because I wouldn't have a notion what they were on about otherwise!).



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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,161 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Nietzsche is a fascinating philosopher.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    jumpguy wrote: »
    How odd, I was just coming here for maths help myself.

    I've a note scribbled in my maths notebook, in a little faraway corner, that the exponential (e) raised to the power of a natural log, say of x (ln x) is equal to x.

    i.e e^lnx = x

    or, to use a constant

    e^ln5 = 5

    I've obviously forgotten this, as this was news to me (it's not in any of the T&T books, as far as I know). My calculator is unwilling to verify it too, helpfully letting me know "SYNTAX ERROR". So what I'm wondering is, is this true or is this some mistaken note I scribbled down eons ago?

    Yup, e^lnx = x. Also works the opposite way: ln(e^x) = x.

    This is a property of logs: for any constants a and x,

    [latex]
    \displaystyle
    {log_a a^x = x}
    [/latex]

    and

    [latex]
    \displaystyle
    {a^{log_a x} = x}
    [/latex]

    In your case, a is Euler's number. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Me again.. :( haha

    f(x) = x - 5 over x, ie: x -5/x not x-5/x

    Find F'(x), the derivative of f(x).

    So I get that down to x-5x^-1

    But then I was looking at the answer, and when they differentiate it, it goes to:

    f'(x) = 1+5x^-2 :confused:

    Where does the ^-2 come from?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    suspect knifey's interpeted the question wrong, this is why brackets are the best!

    if it's x-(5/x) then the answer given is correct and there's no need for the quotient rule, just the standard rule for differentiating powers. -1 -1 = -2, gives us -1*x^-2, but it was -1/x so we get +5*x^-2

    the one is the derivative of x.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,148 ✭✭✭✭KnifeWRENCH


    Ah, I kept reading it as (x-5)/x instead of x - (5/x). Oops. :o

    Noel, in future remember that brackets are your friend!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    Use the quotient rule:

    [latex]
    \displaystyle
    \frac{dy}{dx} = \frac{v\frac{du}{dx} - u\frac{dv}{dx}}{v^2}
    [/latex]

    So put u = x -5 and v = x.
    Then du/dx and dv/dx both equal to 1.
    Now apply the quotient rule and you should end up with 5x^-2. (Unless I missed something, the 1 in the answer you quoted is a typo and shouldn't be there.)

    Remember: for any number a, [latex]\frac{1}{x^a} = x^{-a}[/latex]

    Btw you could also use the product rule to solve this, by rewriting it as [latex]x^{-1}(x - 5)[/latex]
    Or you could just rewrite [latex]\frac{x-5}{x}[/latex] as [latex]1 - \frac{5}{x}[/latex] and differentiate it then. :)

    Sorry I worded my original post terribly, I forgot to put the brackets in to make it seem how it should've been, so it should've been x-(5/x) as cocoa says! :( Thanks btw. :)
    cocoa wrote: »
    suspect knifey's interpeted the question wrong, this is why brackets are the best!

    if it's x-(5/x) then the answer given is correct and there's no need for the quotient rule, just the standard rule for differentiating powers. -1 -1 = -2, gives us -1*x^-2, but it was -1/x so we get +5*x^-2

    the one is the derivative of x.

    Thanks also. :) I'm confused though. I get how the x in x-5x^-1 turns to 1, but how do you differentiate the -5x^-1? It's the one bit that's really confusing me!


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 7,854 Mod ✭✭✭✭suitcasepink


    Omg lads I know it was wrong and whatever but I had to use the quotient rule in my TY maths test yesterday!!
    Like Im nearly certain I did it wrong, but like, I feel so old just about understanding these leaving cert sums...
    Crazy!

    /pointless contribution


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    Thanks also. :) I'm confused though. I get how the x in x-5x^-1 turns to 1, but how do you differentiate the -5x^-1? It's the one bit that's really confusing me!

    sorry, I actually explained it really poorly =(

    so the rule involved is x^a (differentiates to) -> a*x^(a-1)

    in this case we have - 5*x^-1, the -5 is just a constant so can be ignored throughout the differentiation, a is -1, so a-1 = -2 so we get...


    -5 * -1 * x^-2 = +5 * x^-2

    hopefully that makes sense


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    cocoa wrote: »
    sorry, I actually explained it really poorly =(

    so the rule involved is x^a (differentiates to) -> a*x^(a-1)

    in this case we have - 5*x^-1, the -5 is just a constant so can be ignored throughout the differentiation, a is -1, so a-1 = -2 so we get...


    -5 * -1 * x^-2 = +5 * x^-2

    hopefully that makes sense

    Thanks a million! :D

    When differentiating powers is it always (a-1) yeah? :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    Thanks a million! :D

    When differentiating powers is it always (a-1) yeah? :)

    yep, that's the rule, it's in the tables on the differentiation page. I know the tables have changed, but it's still in there, it just seems all weird to me (old) =P

    Basically, if you can learn to read and then apply the rules from the tables, you've got a pass at the very least =)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    cocoa wrote: »
    yep, that's the rule, it's in the tables on the differentiation page. I know the tables have changed, but it's still in there, it just seems all weird to me (old) =P

    Basically, if you can learn to read and then apply the rules from the tables, you've got a pass at the very least =)

    I got an A in my mocks but I didn't do question 6 then, I'm just preparing it now in case a bad question comes up on anything else! Thanks a million for all your help. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭cocoa


    Noel2k9 wrote: »
    I got an A in my mocks but I didn't do question 6 then, I'm just preparing it now in case a bad question comes up on anything else! Thanks a million for all your help. :)

    good job! sounds like you'll do fine. When I said pass I meant at the very very least and it's 4 years since I did my leaving so I don't know stuff any more anyway ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    The... GENIUS THREAD??
    HTF did I miss this :eek:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    The... GENIUS THREAD??
    HTF did I miss this :eek:

    FarSide--gifted_school.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭SarahBeep!


    Im giving maths grinds to an LC and before me she had never heard of BOMDAS before me..WTF like! That's the foundation of everything i know about maths...


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    What I don't like about Bomdas is that apart from brackets and fractions its not realistic to put the rest in order.


    I presume the grinds were for OL, right?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Bottleopener


    SarahBeep! wrote: »
    Im giving maths grinds to an LC and before me she had never heard of BOMDAS before me..WTF like! That's the foundation of everything i know about maths...

    Wow, that's pretty impressive o_o. I'm surprised you can go that long without at least encountering it once.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭Davidius


    What I don't like about Bomdas is that apart from brackets and fractions its not realistic to put the rest in order.
    I'm not sure what you mean by this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,919 ✭✭✭Grindylow


    I've never heard of BOMDAS :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭SarahBeep!


    Davidius wrote: »
    I'm not sure what you mean by this.
    The order in which you take different parts of a sum.

    Brackets.
    anything to the power Of.
    Multiplication.
    Division.
    Addition.
    Subtraction.

    BOMDAS :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,761 ✭✭✭Lawliet


    SarahBeep! wrote: »
    Im giving maths grinds to an LC and before me she had never heard of BOMDAS before me..WTF like! That's the foundation of everything i know about maths...
    I could never work out what the O stood for


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,384 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Isn't there also BIRDMAS?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,383 ✭✭✭Aoibheann


    I always knew it (as in I knew the order of priority!), but never as an acronym!

    Noel, have a look here, it's an acronym for the order in which operations (like addition, multiplication etc) should take place.

    EDIT: Also, a lot of people seem to have issues with the acronym as it seems to imply that Multiplication and Division are of a different priority (they're equally important, you just go left to right across whatever you're working out. Addition/Subtraction are similar, but of lower priority than M/D).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,893 ✭✭✭Davidius


    SarahBeep! wrote: »
    The order in which you take different parts of a sum.
    I know what BOMDAS is, I just don't understand what they mean by it being unrealistic to put them in order.
    Lawliet wrote: »
    I could never work out what the O stood for
    Order.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,654 ✭✭✭shadowninty


    Aoibheann wrote: »
    EDIT: Also, a lot of people seem to have issues with the acronym as it seems to imply that Multiplication and Division are of a different priority (they're equally important, you just go left to right across whatever you're working out. Addition/Subtraction are similar, but of lower priority than M/D).
    What I meant :)


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