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The question of parents with young children in public

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    #152
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    genericguy wrote: »
    Thanks.

    Yep, I meant children who are so young as to understand the idea that they can't act the bollocks in public - these are invariably the type that derive no more pleasure from a trip/holiday than they would at home, thus I see them as an unnecessary inconvenience to other who have paid a large amount of money to travel in comfort.

    After reading this thread, the next time I fly long-haul, I'm giving the kids amphetamines and I'll prod them with hat pins for the whole flight.

    And send them over with shitty nappies to any childless people hunched moodily against their chars with headphones on staring over or typing away angrily on a laptop or smartphone


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    #153
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    genericguy wrote: »
    Thanks.

    Yep, I meant children who are so young as to understand the idea that they can't act the bollocks in public - these are invariably the type that derive no more pleasure from a trip/holiday than they would at home, thus I see them as an unnecessary inconvenience to other who have paid a large amount of money to travel in comfort.

    wheres this ivory tower you,re living in.......? children cry,act the bollocks ,misbehave and do everything we dont want them to do...the vast majority of parents do their best to control them....we can all find examples of misbehaving children wherever we go.....planes ,restaurants..etc the list is endless ..its not going to impact seriously on your life in all honesty...


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    #154
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    stovelid wrote: »
    I must open my eyes more on long-haul flights. I never really notice all the 9-15 year kids on flights with running noses crying their eyes out while their parents blithely shoot up, watch TV and read magazines.
    I think you must have misread someobody, there's no need to deliberately exaggerate what is being said.


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    #155
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    stovelid wrote: »
    After reading this thread, the next time I fly long-haul, I'm giving the kids amphetamines and I'll prod them the whole with pin cushions the whole trips.

    And send them over with shitty nappies to any childless people hunched moodily against their chars with headphones on staring over or typing away angrily on a laptop or smartphone
    My, you sound perfectly charming.


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    #156
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    later10 wrote: »
    My, you sound perfectly charming.

    And furthermore, I'm breeding.

    And coming soon to an art gallery or transatlantic flight near you.


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    #157
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    stovelid wrote: »
    And furthermore, I'm breeding.
    Sorry for your troubles.


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    #158
    Salty
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭Salty


    mattjack wrote: »
    wheres this ivory tower you,re living in.......? children cry,act the bollocks ,misbehave and do everything we dont want them to do...the vast majority of parents do their best to control them....we can all find examples of misbehaving children wherever we go.....planes ,restaurants..etc the list is endless ..its not going to impact seriously on your life in all honesty...

    Indeed they do, I had a crying baby in front of me for an entire flight once. The parents couldn't find any way of consoling it at all. In fairness, though, the mother was very apologetic.

    I can't stand it when kids who are old enough to know better, act the maggot on flights, or in restaurants or whatever. Complete and utter headwrecks!!

    The one exception I've heard, however, is my cousin. A few years ago, my uncles family went on holiday to Cyprus. They're very well-behaved children. Mannerly and all that. However, the small fella dived into the pool one day and somehow, the pressure perphorated(sp?) his eardrum. Needless to say, he wailed with the pain for the duration of the 4 hour flight home. There was nothing they could do to relieve it, the pressure in the cabin drove the child crazy. I'm sure they had plenty of people pass disapproving looks at them during that flight, but sometimes, there's just nothing you can do.


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    #159
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    Ive travelled alot with my little guy for a number of reasons, but that shouldn't really matter. He is a terrific traveller and he gets complimented alot on it and so have I. I have had to publically reprimand him once and that was for his own safety and running away during security check.

    Now, it might be because of how I rear him or it could be because of his nature or a bit of both, but I will never really know why he is such a good traveller.

    Its all easy to say 'parents should discipline their kids on planes and travelling.' But discipline is not overnight or once off thing, it comes through repetition because kids have short memories and cant retain things in isolationn, and very few people travel with kids so frequently that they can instill this.

    So I would like to ask the complainers here, exactly what these parents should do? Tell them to stop it? What if they dont stop it?

    What exactly?


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    #160
    Turpentine
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Turpentine


    snyper wrote: »
    This problem is something caused by our celtic tigerness that wont fcuk off.

    The "sex and the city" life that many people want .

    Ok so you're at an art gallery what the fcuk do you need your ears to look at a painting?

    Ok, so from this thread and others ive read in AH ive established the following list of places you cannot bring a child

    Art gallery - you cant hear the paintings

    Cinema - disturbance

    Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

    The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

    The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

    The doctors - They make noise there too.. and im sick , somone please cry me a river

    School - Yup cant bring them there either

    Holidays - Parents are not allowed holidays - they have children to look after

    Shopping - Pretty much the same reason as all of the above.


    So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step. The second step is to come to the realisation that the world does not revolve around you. It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it.. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them

    What a moronic post.

    The whole point of the thread is not that children should be locked away from society, it is that parents should have the common courtesy to bring their child outside to calm them down should they become distressed.

    Are you one of those people that lets their children run riot everywhere?
    I hated that behaviour before I was a parent and swore I would never be like those rude asshats when I became a parent.

    The "Celtic Tigerness" and selfishness is on the part of the parents who willingly piss off everyone else and don't give a toss because "their kids are the best".


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    #161
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    metrovelvet wrote: »

    So I would like to ask the complainers here, exactly what these parents should do? Tell them to stop it? What if they dont stop it?

    What exactly?

    Are you simple or something?

    Fashion yourself, your child and indeed the entire universe to perfectly chime with their given needs and convenience at any given time.


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    #162
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    stovelid wrote: »
    Are you simple or something?

    Fashion yourself, your child and indeed the entire universe to perfectly chime with their given needs and convenience at any given time.

    Ah right.... it can get confusing as to who exactly is the infant.


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    #163
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    So I would like to ask the complainers here, exactly what these parents should do? Tell them to stop it? What if they dont stop it?

    What exactly?
    At a public event or in a place like a gallery, the obvious thing to do would be to leave.

    As a parent, on an aeroplane, the obvious thing to do would be to respond to the situation effectively, in terms that you know your child, for whom you have decided to take responsibility, will respond positively.

    If there is a situation where the child is obviously sick, that must be understood and dealt with sympathetically. Kids do not cry simply because of bad manners, all of the time. But really we are talking about bad manners here, and people who do not respond in an effective manner to their children causing discomfort, perhaps because like another user, they don't really care about other adults who have to share the space.


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    #164
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    later10 wrote: »
    At a public event or in a place like a gallery, the obvious thing to do would be to leave.

    As a parent, on an aeroplane, the obvious thing to do would be to respond to the situation effectively, in terms that you know your child, for whom you have decided to take responsibility, will respond positively.

    If there is a situation where the child is obviously sick, that must be understood and dealt with sympathetically. Kids do not cry simply because of bad manners, all of the time. But really we are talking about bad manners here, and people who do not respond in an effective manner to their children causing discomfort, perhaps because like another user, they don't really care about other adults who have to share the space.

    I'd like you to be more specific, re the airplane.

    Give me an example of what you think is bad manners and what you think the parent should do about it?

    I don't go to art galleries and I dont know many parents who do, but a lot of families travel together.

    Ive travelled a lot and ive never seen a child be deliberately bad mannnered.


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    #165
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    later10 wrote: »
    As a parent, on an aeroplane, the obvious thing to do would be to respond to the situation effectively, in terms that you know your child, for whom you have decided to take responsibility, will respond positively.

    http://cwgala.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/parachute.jpg


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    #166
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    Give me an example of what you think is bad manners and what you think the parent should do about it?
    Children respond differently to different situations; I would suggest the parent responds to bad behaviour on an aeroplane in any reasonable way that is likely to quieten the child, be that a reprimand or an appeasement (if he wants your car keys, give him your cark keys, this is not an appropriate time to hand down life lessons on saying please or thank you).

    Some parents will find, depending on how they discipline their child, that being firm works better than engaging the child with promises of an adventure or asking if he can see x, y, or z from the aeroplane. Or vice versa. Yet we do see lazier examples, such as stovelid, who really don't give much of a toss either way.


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    #167
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    What is bad behavior? You have yet to define what you think is bad behavior.


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    #168
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    later10 wrote: »
    Children respond differently to different situations; I would suggest the parent responds to bad behaviour on an aeroplane in any reasonable way that is likely to quieten the child, be that a reprimand or an appeasement (if he wants your car keys, give him your cark keys, this is not an appropriate time to hand down life lessons on saying please or thank you).

    Some parents will find, depending on how they discipline their child, that being firm works better than engaging the child with promises of an adventure or asking if he can see x, y, or z from the aeroplane. Or vice versa.

    You should publish all this for other parents. It seems wasted on a forum thread somehow.


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    #169
    metrovelvet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭metrovelvet


    stovelid wrote: »
    You should publish all this for other parents. It seems wasted on a forum thread somehow.

    I know I'm enlightened.


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    #170
    Tayla
    Registered Users Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭Tayla


    Op it can go the other way too you know........

    A couple of years ago I brought my son to see Santa in Dundrum.

    Who comes in after us except this group of around 5-6 people in their late 50's/60's pissed off their heads who just thought it would be hilarious :rolleyes: to go and sit on Santy's knee and get a pressie, they drove us all mad with their drunken behaviour, cackling and laughing and singing, it was only about 6pm aswell!

    It took us around 2 hours to get in to see Santy and they were well sobered up at that stage which was pretty funny :)

    For every child being brought to an art gallery, there's a loony granny pissed off her head going in for a visit to Santa's grotto so I think it evens itself out in the end!


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    #171
    B_Fanatic
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭B_Fanatic


    I agree with the OP to the extent of galleries and restaurants. I see no reason to bring a child (An infant, I mean) to a gallery or museum of any sort. If you can't get a babysitter in time why not go another day? Surely it'll still be there in a weeks time. And if it's not, I'm not really sure how to respond to that. Just bring them I guess.

    If the child is actually able to comprehend or look at something like a painting, go ahead : P


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    #172
    spinandscribble
    Registered Users Posts: 3,000 ✭✭✭spinandscribble


    funnily enough, the mums with prams barridge are actually the most likely to go see exhibitions regularly during the day mid week at least at my art college anyway and this is taken into consideration by some so certain things are out of little ones reach and doors are wide enough....

    I personally see no problem with taking well behaved children to "adult places" but if parents let their children run wild then they should really reconsider. My mom never brought me to galleries ect but I do remember between 3-5 I was NOT allowed into the shopping centres due to my behaviour except if it was a one parent/one child thing, as i was a twin (we caused a lot of drama before the "ban", hiding under boxes, running away). It was clearly explained to me my behaviour was the cause of this so I did manage to turn things around and was desperate to prove myself.

    I'm not a fan of children at pubs unless its say for a few after a family event. I was a bit shocked last year to see a couple bring roughly 4 kids under 6 into a beer festival in a galway pub. It was clear they were there for fun but the kids were bored senseless.


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    #173
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    later10 wrote: »
    Children respond differently to different situations; I would suggest the parent responds to bad behaviour on an aeroplane in any reasonable way that is likely to quieten the child, be that a reprimand or an appeasement (if he wants your car keys, give him your cark keys, this is not an appropriate time to hand down life lessons on saying please or thank you).

    Some parents will find, depending on how they discipline their child, that being firm works better than engaging the child with promises of an adventure or asking if he can see x, y, or z from the aeroplane. Or vice versa. Yet we do see lazier examples, such as stovelid, who really don't give much of a toss either way.

    you missed your vocation in life.................you should be educating parents everywhere...................24yrs of age and this talented..............


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    #174
    Turpentine
    Registered Users Posts: 702 ✭✭✭Turpentine


    Tayla wrote: »
    Op it can go the other way too you know........

    A couple of years ago I brought my son to see Santa in Dundrum.

    Who comes in after us except this group of around 5-6 people in their late 50's/60's pissed off their heads who just thought it would be hilarious :rolleyes: to go and sit on Santy's knee and get a pressie, they drove us all mad with their drunken behaviour, cackling and laughing and singing, it was only about 6pm aswell!

    It took us around 2 hours to get in to see Santy and they were well sobered up at that stage which was pretty funny :)

    For every child being brought to an art gallery, there's a loony granny pissed off her head going in for a visit to Santa's grotto so I think it evens itself out in the end!

    Well those people were clearly cretins.

    But they are responsible for their own behaviour, a child is not. That is why children should not just be left to their own devices in public. If they are distraught or bored or kicking up a fuss they should be brought outside and soothed until they are calm enough to come back in.

    Surely it's not that difficult to grasp.


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    #175
    HazDanz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,300 ✭✭✭HazDanz


    Just sieved through this thread... My heads melted now! Some passionate views. Are people suggesting something along the lines of the no dog sign?

    Maybe a no kids sign at adult appropriate events?

    I'm not into art but i'd probable venture into an art gallery to look at that piece of beauty! :D


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    #176
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    metrovelvet wrote: »
    What is bad behavior? You have yet to define what you think is bad behavior.
    In terms of the child, Im talking specifically about loud, or disruptive behaviour which is unrelated to the child's health, and particularly so when this behaviour is coming from a child who is old enough to know the difference between what is appropriate and inappropriate behaviour around adults.

    More serious, though, is bad behaviour on the behalf of parents who fail to repremand their children, or respond to their children, for exhibiting loud and disruptive behaviour. As I said earlier, this thread is not really about children. It is about adults respecting other adults.


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    #177
    later12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭✭later12


    HazDanz wrote: »
    Just sieved through this thread... My heads melted now! Some passionate views. Are people suggesting something along the lines of the no dog sign?

    Maybe a no kids sign at adult appropriate events?
    Not at all. It's funny because most of the posts, apart from some of the more recent ones have actually been very reasonable - including those from parents. Like I said there will always be the more militant minority who presume the right of their children to disrupt everybody else's comfort.
    B_fanatic wrote:
    I agree with the OP to the extent of galleries and restaurants. I see no reason to bring a child (An infant, I mean) to a gallery or museum of any sort. If you can't get a babysitter in time why not go another day? Surely it'll still be there in a weeks time. And if it's not, I'm not really sure how to respond to that. Just bring them I guess.

    If the child is actually able to comprehend or look at something like a painting, go ahead : P
    I agree entirely with this example of a reasonable position. Children should be encouraged to engage with art, and childrens workshops in places like The National Gallery are fantastic - although - quite appropriately - are not placed in front of a Yeats or the Caravaggio.


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    #178
    Whippersnapper
    Registered Users Posts: 598 ✭✭✭Whippersnapper


    When we were kids our parents told us to be quiet, we were not allowed shout or cry or be bold when we were in public places or in the company of adults. We behaved ourselves. There is no reason for parents to allow disruptive behaviour.

    This happened about 2 years ago. There were kids standing on the seats in a pub where we were watching a match. We couldn't see the telly because the were standing on seats directly in front of us. My dad asked them to sit down and their father turned to us and asked if we had a problem. My dad said, "yeah, we can't see the game" and the father just said they were kids and what did he expect. The kids then began to tear up beermats and throw them on to our table, into our food and glasses etc. At this point my dad asked the father to control his kids and the guy stood up walked over to my dad and put his hand on his shoulder and asked him if he had ever been their age. Only I was there I think my dad would have lost his cool, instead he told a member of staff that if something wasn't done we would have to leave. Staff spoke with the family, the advice wasn't taken because we had to leave about ten minutes later as we couldn't see the game.


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    #179
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    later10 wrote: »
    In terms of the child, Im talking specifically about loud, or disruptive behaviour which is unrelated to the child's health, and particularly so when this behaviour is coming from a child who is old enough to know the difference between what is appropriate and inappropriate behaviour around adults.

    More serious, though, is bad behaviour on the behalf of parents who fail to repremand their children, or respond to their children, for exhibiting loud and disruptive behaviour. As I said earlier, this thread is not really about children. It is about adults respecting other adults.

    you started off in your OP talking about babies and young children..now you,re talking about older children knowing the difference between appropriate and inappropriate behaviour........


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    #180
    The Princess Bride
    Registered Users Posts: 18,581 ✭✭✭✭The Princess Bride


    Don't blame the children, blame the parents.
    Nothing as annoying as parents giving out to young children who are obviously too young to understand difference between right and wrong.
    (Different with older children, but again, depends on the sensibility of jackass parent who rears them.)
    You see it all the time, parent pushing the buggy and very young toddler running alongside before it falls and then waaaaaaaaaah........Put child in buggy,you fool,that's what it's for!!!
    I agree with OP.Seriously,what fun would youngsters have in Art Gallery, most adults would have to be in mood,at best of times, to enjoy,let alone kids who have the attention span of a gnat.


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    #181
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 23,339 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    later10 wrote: »

    I have had similar experiences in other public places, most irritatingly in restaurants, coffee houses, bars, and once, irony of ironies, at a Quaker funeral. (Why do parents insist on taking their young children to church or worship?).


    In a thread about places that do nice carvery lunches in Cork someone recommended some spot on the basis of the grub being nice but also how you can let your kids run amock like they are at home :rolleyes:


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