The question of parents with young children in public

later12

robbie7730 wrote: »

Babysitter for shopping so?

The poster clearly said:

I find this distressing, but not irritating - except that I want to tell the minder what the problem is. But you don't go into a supermarket for peace and relaxation, and people do have to take their children with them.

Nobody is criticising a parent (who has enough to be concerned about) for taking a child into Superquinn or Tesco for groceries. You expect to see families in there, you expect noise (to a certain degree) you generally get in and get out, not hang around for some deep thinking and relaxation.

Even when we go to the park or to the beach, we expect families and young children, and if we find it hard to relax, we generally move to a quieter area.

However galleries and museums and libraries are those quiet areas. Restaurants too are those quiet areas where we go to be with other adults, and stimulate our brains or simply relax with some food that somebody else has cooked - I'm sure parents appreciate this, and these rare moments of peace, more than anyone and are as upset as anyone when there are very small children making a racket.

Therefore, that makes the action of those inconsiderate parents all the more difficult to understand.

fedor.2.

All this is easy even for me to work out as the missus is a maternity nurse with decades of experience, but the more you know the more simple & / obvious it all becomes :eek:[/QUOTE]

How old is your wife??

later12

fedor.2. wrote: »

The people who go to art galleries are the ones that annoy me, different strokes i suppose

It doesn't have to be a gallery, the gallery was just an example of a quiet space for adults or children who understand the need to maintain a quietness (not necessariy silence of course)

stovelid

Are there really people that take young kids to art galleries?

Surely it's a tailor-made location to drive them batshit: the enforced quiet and amount of things not to touch for starters.

jayteecork

I used work in bars and parents who bring their small children, let them run around supervised, while they get pissed should be annihilated.

Zebra3

jayteecork wrote: »

I used work in bars and parents who bring their small children, let them run around supervised, while they get pissed should be annihilated.

Would the manager not ask them to leave if they are annoying other customers?

NomdePlume

Children are never as annoying as annoying adults.

The only time I ever felt annoyed by anyone in an art gallery was at an exhibition where some crone kept wandering the room making loud pretentious remarks on everything.
Give me a whingeing child over that any day.

later12

NomdePlume wrote: »

Children are never as annoying as annoying adults.

The only time I ever felt annoyed by anyone in an art gallery was at an exhibition where some crone kept wandering the room making loud pretentious remarks on everything.
Give me a whingeing child over that any day.

True but even if it is more annoying, there isn't a choice, and that doesn't make crying babies acceptable.

The ideal is neither, and that adult oriented spaces might be engaged with in a respectful way. I think a lot of this comes down to adults respecting other adults, nobody is blaming the babies.

OutlawPete

Certain complaints that have made here have been legitimate. Children running amok and going unsupervised in public places is not on. Screaming kids and the like should be removed if at all possible (cinemas, theaters, galleries etc) but sometimes it isn't of course possible to just removed yourself and a child from a situation (doctors or just queuing etc). Also, people bringing children to pubs and restaurants after 7pm should have a bit more cop on, or at the very least, be super aware and keep them on a far tighter leash than they would say if it were 2 or 3pm. As Snyper eluded to earlier, there is a big difference between complaining of children crying and making noise at the cinema at a 1pm screening, than there is of complaining of the same type of behavior at a late night screening. One is understandable, the other is not.

In saying all that, members of the public can be selfish, narcissistic, sour faced cunts, who just will complain at the smallest of things regarding children and what they perceive to be 'bad parenting'. They are everywhere and they are a boil on the arse of humanity. I have been the carer of someone with autism (my sister) for almost 25 years now, since I was a child myself in fact and the kind of stuff that has been leveled at me by so called adults, has been nothing short of disgusting. Rolled eyes would be a Christmas present compared to the crap that we've dealt with while out in public places trying to live our lives. When I was younger I used to snap back, but you eventually get thick skinned, otherwise you'd be fighting with morons all day everyday.

You may think that my situation is different to that which is being discussed here, but it isn't and the reason for that is because people do not know that my sister has autism, as she looks just looks just like anybody else (as many kids/adults with autism do in fact). Even today, as a 33 year old, you would just think she was just an average 12 year old and so, throughout all my years of being in public places together, what I experience is precisely what parents of normal kids experience when they have a bad day with their "normal" unruly children in public, when other people react badly to them. Only difference is, with most parents that might be 2 or 3% of the time they go out, with myself (and most other parents/siblings of someone with autism) it's almost every single day and every single time that they leave the house.

Again, there are of course times when people have every right to expect some peace and quiet. They may very well have problems of their own to cope with and so when they go out, they should be entitled to expect to enjoy that time undisturbed by children screaming and acting up.

However, people who complain, throw dirty looks and make judgmental comments about other parents, just because they see a child scream or throw a tantrum in a shop, cinema etc, in my mind .. are just arseholes, get over yourselves. Okay, so your day has been interrupted by noise that you would prefer went away or hadn't happened, but that doesn't give you the right to be prissy or obnoxious about it. If an adult is clearly doing their best to take care of a kid, but that child is still being wild or unruly, bear in mind that there could very well be more to why that child is behaving that way, than meets the eye. That adult or sibling may have spent the last week stuck indoors, going through the same crap (sometimes literately) and this trip to the shop, cinema, cafe etc has been there only refuge in that time, their only chance to get outside the house and so the last thing that they need is someone making things harder for them, with their selfish, ignorant reactions and attitudes to those situations. Of course, a small dose of 'minding your own bloody business' would go a long way too.

stovelid

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I hate crying kids, little bastards should STFU. The parents are worse, continuing on with whatever they are doing not caring that their demon spawn is ruining everything for everyone else, whether thats a meal, or like what I experienced, peoples study in a bloody library. Leave the kids at home or in childcare if they can't stay quiet rather than making everyone else suffer.

Blowing them up is always an option too.

Zebra3

OutlawPete wrote: »

Certain complaints that have made here have been legitimate. Children running amach

Yeah, I hate children running out. :pac:

mattjack

later10 wrote: »

Because it is important that children develop strong reading skills. In most situations, children who are old enough to read are old enough to be socialised - I am talking about very young children, as I said in my OP, particularly those in prams and buggies. Except for when there are reading groups/ children's meetings, even children in libraries are asked to uphold quietness.

I have a problem with this question, to be honest.

Firstly, this is the internet, and ideally we ought to debate on a logical level. This isn't a children collecting competition, and I don't see how that can count for much anyway. You don't win a debate by having children. This is the same argument that says 'no vagina, no opinion' in relation to abortion.

No, mattjack, as I have already said, I do not have children. I said I do understand that being a parent is a difficult role. Nevertheless it is not everybody else's job to accomodate young children in places that were not designed for baby's enjoyment.

What do you want me to do, put my Mother on the telephone????

I'm sure I did. But my parents didn't take me out to dinner or to exhibitions until I was old enough to learn to behave myself, and I knew that if I was loud or obnoxious, there would be consequences.

No, but watching, understanding, and enjoying can demand a certain level of concentration to appreciate the technique or theme being employed.

The same goes for libraries and museums, and that is why these are usually rather quiet places, it's hard to concentrate when young children are agitated and crying, as of course they can so easily be when they do not feel stimulated.

I'm talking about babies at funerals. Particularly babies who don't know what's happening. Or, as another poster said, she would leave the funeral if her baby started crying, and obviously that sort of intervention would be welcomed by the other mourners, and it is a very considerate position to take.


No. My problem with small babies in restaurants is that it can be hard to have a conversation when the baby (or babies) are crying. Whatever about galleries, which are either cheap or free of charge, this is one I find particularly hard to understand. If you can afford to eat in a nice restaurant, can you not also afford a babysitter?

I would also find this annoying if I were a parent who did make the effort to get a babysitter and enjoy a night out, and then found myself near to a screaming child.
Nobody said anything about babies not being allowed in the park, or at the seaside, as far as I have read. You appear to be inventing this.
But I do like children. I want to be a Dad. It isn't a case of either believing that small children should be allowed anywhere 'or else you must hate children'. I just don't see what small babies need from galleries, restaurants and religious ceremonies.
No, it will be my pension doing that - for which I am already paying heavily in terms of social contributions voluntary deductions. And it is childless adult's taxes which indiscriminately goes towards things like infrastructure, education, and childrens' allowance.

I'm 24, I would consider myself too young for children, and again I don't hate children, I actually enjoy their energy and curiosity.

plain ol, curiosity

mattjack

mattjack wrote: »

plain ol, curiosity

sorry...plain ol curiosity has me asking had you children...

si_guru

asshole wrote:

I just don't see what small babies need from.. ..restaurants and religious ceremonies.

To eat (to survive) and how exactly were YOU baptised?

purplepanda

fedor.2. wrote: »

All this is easy even for me to work out as the missus is a maternity nurse with decades of experience, but the more you know the more simple & / obvious it all becomes :eek:

How old is your wife??[/QUOTE]

You should never mention a womans age

Suffice to say that she has 25+ years of professional experience in that field & has cared for the offspring of prominent royality, & even some well known media types amongst her clients.

Any more information & the tabliods will be parked up outside looking for her, she left for the far east today however

stovelid

OutlawPete wrote: »

In saying all that, members of the public can be selfish, narcissistic, sour faced cunts, who can complain at the smallest of things regarding children and what they perceive to be 'bad parenting'..

Paradoxically, the people that are so vituperative about the mere presence of kids in public space are probably the most likely to be wholly inconsiderate of childless people when/if they become parents themselves.

Basically, if you're the sort of the person that thinks about society purely in terms of your own convenience/needs, that will hardly magically change just because you do or don't have kids.

Summed up in the oft-mentioned paradox of sitting around your fry-up expecting the world and their kids to creep around on tiptoe because you have a self-inflicted hangover.

later12

si_guru wrote: »

Originally Posted by asshole
I just don't see what small babies need from.. ..restaurants and religious ceremonies.

To eat (to survive) and how exactly were YOU baptised?

Babies don't need to attend restaurants to eat, I don't think they're particularly interested. And I wasn't baptised, I did perfectly OK. Nevertheless I was talking about religious ceremonies that babies don't need to attend, not baptisms where they are The Big Cheese.

Zebra3

purplepanda wrote: »

You should never mention a womans age

Suffice to say that she has 25+ years of professional experience in that field

21 so.

genericguy

in most places i can understand parents saying "fook it, i'll bring little johnnie, it'll save me some hassle". I don't approve, cos I couldn't give a fook about little johnny and his desire for a chocolate bar. however, i draw the line when inconsiderate fucks insist on bringing their crying snotty bastard on a plane. i can't understand how people can get thick when you ask them to shut ther child up on a flight - how can they be ignorant as to how annoying this is for other passengers?

actually - i also remember a time when some oul hag started a row with me in the pub on a saturday because myself and my friends were laughing about santa claus and we were at risk of spoiling her child's christmas. at 7pm. in a pub. she said her child had as much right to enjoy the pub as had anyone else - even though the poor little shite had been sat in the corner crying for attention for 3 hours. bint.

mattjack

genericguy wrote: »

in most places i can understand parents saying "fook it, i'll bring little johnnie, it'll save me some hassle". I don't approve, cos I couldn't give a fook about little johnny and his desire for a chocolate bar. however, i draw the line when inconsiderate ****s insist on bringing their crying snotty bastard on a plane. i can't understand how people can get thick when you ask them to shut ther child up on a flight - how can they be ignorant as to how annoying this is for other passengers?

maybe they have a reason for having their child on a flight...other than annoying passengers

Toby Take a Bow

The King of Moo wrote: »

Also: the cinema? That's the worst place to bring kids!! It's based entirely on people being silent to enjoy it properly.

My heart just sinks when you've bought your (overpriced) ticket, your (overpriced) popcorn and drink and sit down to watch a film and someone walks in with their young family. I have no problem if it's a film for kids, and you've gone for the morning showing, but last time it happened was at (I think) Thor, which must be at least 12s (or, I suppose, PG). Anyway, a guy walks in with a 5 year old and one a little older, and a 2 or 3 year old. As soon as the film started, the toddler started shouting WHO'S HE? WHAT'S HAPPENING? all the way until the film ended.

stovelid

genericguy wrote: »

however, i draw the line when inconsiderate ****s insist on bringing their crying snotty bastard on a plane. i can't understand how people can get thick when you ask them to shut ther child up on a flight - how can they be ignorant as to how annoying this is for other passengers?

How do you suggest they take their kids to far destinations - for example, to see their grandparents if they're ex-pats? - ship them in a parcel ahead of them?

later12

stovelid wrote: »

How do you suggest they take their kids to far destinations - for example, to see their grandparents if they're ex-pats? - ship them in a parcel ahead of them?

If they're old enough to derive a benefit from the trip, surely they're old enough to understand their parents' warnings and respond accordingly.

The poster referred to crying children, and those who are beyond reproach by other passengers in the eyes of the parents; not children generally.

Salty

RachaelVO wrote: »

But yes, these things will still happen in public, it's just a matter of knowing how to deal with it!

stovelid wrote: »

And by bad behaviour I don't mean toddlers making a bit of noise or crying.

There is a huge difference between small children making noise and crying, and badly behaved children. The latter can be highly annoying as often, they tend to be bratty as well as loud.

However, when it comes to small kids making noise just because they don't understand public etiquette, it's a different matter. And sometimes, parents don't deal with it properly.

In some cases, it can be upsetting, tbh. Just last week, I was on break (I'm in 6th year), and my boyfriend came down to a shopping centre with me for a cup of tea. We were sitting in a cafe, having a chat and whatever, when we heard this child screaming hysterically from outside the cafe. He couldn't have been more than 2 years old, but he wasn't misbehaving or anything from what I could see; he actually seemed frightened. His mother was after walking away and leaving him screaming the place down, I could see her in front of a shop a few metres away. The child seemed to nearly begging for her to come back, and then she proceeded to make her way out of the main shopping centre into the hall where the elevators are (there's a multistorey carpark attached to the centre) leaving him there, screaming and terrified. :eek: I know that some parents use the whole "oh I'm leaving now" to spur their children into following them or whatever, but this was ridiculous. I don't know what the child could have done at that age to warrant being left alone like that. I was annoyed at the mother for leaving him in such a state, and felt upset about it. I was on the verge of tears listening to him. Eventually, he ran after her towards the elevators, but I could still hear him screaming.

I'm aware that this is different to what the OP was talking about, and I agree that there are certain places that aren't child-friendly, and that parents should be more firm with there kids about their conduct in public. But this situation is just crazy. Obviously, children are welcome in shopping centres, but this mother took "teaching a lesson" way over the line!!

metrovelvet

stovelid wrote: »

How do you suggest they take their kids to far destinations - for example, to see their grandparents if they're ex-pats? - ship them in a parcel ahead of them?

Why do you bother responding? Its so not worth it.

mattjack

later10 wrote: »

If they're old enough to derive a benefit from the trip, surely they're old enough to understand their parents' warnings and respond accordingly.

The poster referred to crying children, and those who are beyond reproach by other passengers in the eyes of the parents; not children generally.

and if they were emigrating or travelling for a medical procedure.....

genericguy

later10 wrote: »

If they're old enough to derive a benefit from the trip, surely they're old enough to understand their parents' warnings and respond accordingly.

The poster referred to crying children, and those who are beyond reproach by other passengers in the eyes of the parents; not children generally.

Thanks.

Yep, I meant children who are so young as to understand the idea that they can't act the bollocks in public - these are invariably the type that derive no more pleasure from a trip/holiday than they would at home, thus I see them as an unnecessary inconvenience to other who have paid a large amount of money to travel in comfort.

stovelid

later10 wrote: »

The poster referred to crying children, and those who are beyond reproach by other passengers in the eyes of the parents; not children generally.

I must open my eyes more on long-haul flights. I never really notice all the 9-15 year kids on flights with running noses crying their eyes out while their parents blithely shoot up, watch TV and read magazines.

BengaLover

Blame the parents not the kids!
I dont have a problem with crying babies, thats what they do, cant be helped, but parents who dont discipline or control their children in public are what get up my nose.
some parents should make more of an effort to control their children so that they dont disturb others whilst travelling, in cinema etc, but lets not rememeber we were all kids once..

later12

mattjack wrote: »

and if they were emigrating or travelling for a medical procedure.....

I don't have a particular problem with children going on holidays or boarding aircraft, I was just clarifying what another poster seemed to be saying. Also I'm not quite sure it would be reasonable that passengers should presume that a child on a flight is emigrating or going to say, Majorca, for medical reasons.

In the case of aeroplanes, however, sometimes babies do need to be somewhere. And I would be far more concerned with parents who do not discipline their older and loud children on board aircrafts, it being an already tight and uncomfortable space and crying children who go ignored just make it unnecessarily uncomfortable.