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The question of parents with young children in public

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    #32
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    later10 wrote: »
    But parents ought to realise that taking their young children certain places can be discomforting to other people who are there to engage in an adult pursuit, .
    That just sounds wrong, very wrong.


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    #33
    mattjack
    Registered Users Posts: 5,389 ✭✭✭mattjack


    later10 wrote: »
    Can I just say from the outset that I do not subscribe to the belief that children are better seen and not heard, and that I have no problem, distress, irritation or otherwise with those who bear children, nor with children themselves.

    However.

    What I really find irritating are parents who choose to bring their children to places which may be inappropriate for small children, and where adults are trying to engage in an adult environment.

    I was at an exhibition in the Irish Museum of Modern Art recently, when I counted three prams, and two of them with crying children, and one of them with a particularly distressed child who cries went completely ignored as the father stared curiously into the unibrow of a Frida Kahlo portrait.

    Other gallery users were clearly irritated, but the babys parent seemed similarly disinterested, and he carried on from room to room, occasionally cooing at the crying baby. Cooing. Why would you take your babies to see Frida Kahlo, and coo at it like you were in your own home?

    I have had similar experiences in other public places, most irritatingly in restaurants, coffee houses, bars, and once, irony of ironies, at a Quaker funeral. (Why do parents insist on taking their young children to church or worship?)

    Now obviously there are perfectly understandable situations whereby the parent must bring the children with them to an event or an occasion, usually of the last-minute-couldnt-manage-a-babysitter variety. No problem. And obviously when children get to a certain, more coherent age, this sort of socialisation is important. But parents ought to realise that taking their young children certain places can be discomforting to other people who are there to engage in an adult pursuit, or may themselves be there to get away from their kids for a couple of hours.

    I understand that there are many difficulties in raising young children, and any reasonable individual respects this. But it isnt everybody else' s responsibility to defer to parenthood and to accomodate your childrens' inappropriate behaviour, especially in adult environments.

    have you any children yourself..?...........


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    #34
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,757 ✭✭✭amacca


    later10 wrote: »
    Can I just say from the outset that I do not subscribe to the belief that children are better seen and not heard

    Finally! children should be herded and not seen.


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    #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Babies: none of us can stand them. Let's just admit it.

    Especially the ones on the bus. Oh my.

    Human adults have a built-in reaction to crying babies which causes discomfort. If you can't shut your kid up in a public place, then leave.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-7wnY0k0u78


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    #36
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Whats worse is those types of parents who bring them to a place like a gallery (where they bawl.....as children do) is they have a face on them like they are just daring you to try say something negative about their darling little angel.

    The problem is not the child.
    Yes children bawl.

    The problem is the adults who know their children bawl and bring them to places where they subject others to their bawling.

    Stupid parents :mad:


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    #37
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,774 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    I have 3 small kids who go almost eveywhere with me.
    Why shouldn't they?
    If i'm somewhere and i feel them kicking off - i leave - simples.
    I don't go to the pub with them to sit drinking while they run around the place high on fanta and crisps - if you do that then you shouldn't have kids cause they obviously interfere with your drinking.
    For the most my kids are well behaved and don't go mad when they are out.
    I like to take them to things like the trinity science museum, national history etc - sorry if there are adults in there who don't like kids but i want them to be interested in life and to ask questions and to learn new things.
    I won't take them to pubs/restaurants etc where adults are trying to get away fom kids - unfair on everyone.
    Some people don't deserve to have kids - it's like they are a hindrance to their lives - oh i can't go out drinking any more cause i've to get up to the kids in the morning - seriously if you wanted to keep being a party animal then tie a knot in it.


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    #38
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    mfceiling wrote: »
    I have 3 small kids who go almost eveywhere with me.
    Why shouldn't they?
    If i'm somewhere and i feel them kicking off - i leave - simples.
    ......
    For the most my kids are well behaved and don't go mad when they are out.
    I like to take them to things like the trinity science museum, national history etc - sorry if there are adults in there who don't like kids but i want them to be interested in life and to ask questions and to learn new things.
    t.

    I don't lnow why you are getting insulted :confused:

    From the op I thought it was clear that It is the noisy kids whose parents don't leave with them that are the issue.


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    #39
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,774 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    amdublin wrote: »
    I don't lnow why you are getting insulted :confused:

    From the op I thought it was clear that It is the noisy kids whose parents don't leave with them that are the issue.


    I'm not insulted at all....i agree with the OP

    Don't bring your kids to the pub, if you kids kick off somewhere then leave and don't think that you kids are the centre of the universe and that everyone thinks they are great (they aren't)...


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    #40
    brendanL
    Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭brendanL


    Agree with OP,

    Not a parent, but I know people with kids/mind them.

    I think it's perfectly fine if a parent brings a kid to a funeral or art exhibit, whatever, as long as they leave if the child gets upset. Or atleast move off somewhere quiet until things are ok again.

    I was at a funeral with my sister recently, most of her kids were sitting up with her, and the youngest was with her husband, at the back sitting near the door, and when the baby started crying he carried her outside swiftly so things weren't interrupted.

    Basically, if you have kids you should be able to think ahead. Handle the problem before it becomes a situation and if they do start crying/making noise. Step outside.

    My auntie once pushed around my cousin in Roches stores in Blanchardstown a long time ago now ;D for so long while she was crying that the security actually came over to see if the kid was ok and talked to her.

    Needless to say, ever since then, she's slagged to high heaven over it.
    So there are too approachs.. and I can understand why a parent would try to carry on as normal.. as they may be trying to teach some 'you don't always get your way' valuable lesson malarkey.. but there is a time and a place.

    If you can't tell the difference between a place where it's ok to let them continue or not.. well then just take a look at the faces of the people around you. Shouldn't be too hard to figure out whether you need to pull a legger to the door until they calm down.


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    #41
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    mfceiling wrote: »
    I'm not insulted at all....i agree with the OP

    Don't bring your kids to the pub, if you kids kick off somewhere then leave and don't think that you kids are the centre of the universe and that everyone thinks they are great (they aren't)...

    There is a balance, I see nothing wrong with if you're out for a walk or whatever bringing kids to a quiet pub for 1/2 an hour for a glass of water or fanta or whatever if it is during the day and they sit down quietly and drink it and then leave. Bringing them to a pub in the evening or if it's crowded with people or bringing a small child who acts up or a baby who bawls it's lungs out is a different matter entirely. Or worse, bringing small kids and skulling pints yourself while the kids run riot - that's child abuse. As with most things in life there are shades of grey, very few things are black and white - but legally we seem to be very bad at that here.

    The "no under 18s in a pub after 9 PM" rule is a typical example. I think this has destroyed tourism here as many families with older teenagers cannot have a meal or a quiet drink listening to a trad session anymore.


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    #42
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Rachiee wrote: »
    I absolutely adore children but it is precisely that reason why I agree with the op, it is unfair to bring children places where they cannot be stimulated the only reason parents do it is pure selfishness, they want to do such and such and cant get a baby sitter so they just do it anyway, either that or pure ignorance as to what activities are beneficial for children.. parenting unfortunately does not come with a manual.

    No doubt you dont need the manual yourself. Kids can be annoying alright, but not every single place they are brought will be for the purpose of being intentionally stimulating for them.


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    #43
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    This problem is something caused by our celtic tigerness that wont fcuk off.

    The "sex and the city" life that many people want .

    Ok so you're at an art gallery what the fcuk do you need your ears to look at a painting?

    Ok, so from this thread and others ive read in AH ive established the following list of places you cannot bring a child

    Art gallery - you cant hear the paintings

    Cinema - disturbance

    Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

    The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

    The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

    The doctors - They make noise there too.. and im sick , somone please cry me a river

    School - Yup cant bring them there either

    Holidays - Parents are not allowed holidays - they have children to look after

    Shopping - Pretty much the same reason as all of the above.


    So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step. The second step is to come to the realisation that the world does not revolve around you. It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it.. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them


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    #44
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    I don't get it either. I don't understand why parents bring their children to places they have no interest in, only to have them cry or constantly complain that they're bored.


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    #45
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    snyper wrote: »
    This problem is something caused by our celtic tigerness that wont fcuk off.

    The "sex and the city" life that many people want .

    Ok so you're at an art gallery what the fcuk do you need your ears to look at a painting?

    Ok, so from this thread and others ive read in AH ive established the following list of places you cannot bring a child

    Art gallery - you cant hear the paintings

    Cinema - disturbance

    Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

    The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

    The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

    The doctors - They make noise there too.. and im sick , somone please cry me a river

    School - Yup cant bring them there either

    Holidays - Parents are not allowed holidays - they have children to look after

    Shopping - Pretty much the same reason as all of the above.


    So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step. The second step is to come to the realisation that the world does not revolve around you. It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it.. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them

    I'll admit that I'm not that fond of children, but I don't HATE them (that's a bit strong), and it's not because I'm too old to have any. I'm more than young enough (still in college), but I'll admit that, yes, I'd much rather enjoy an art gallery or a restaurant without babies who don't want to be there screaming their heads off.


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    #46
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    I don't get it either. I don't understand why parents bring their children to places they have no interest in, only to have them cry or constantly complain that they're bored.

    Because if they lock them under the stairs and go, the cruelty man comes.

    Get a baby sitter? Sure, they're free.

    Dont have children if you cant afford them?!!! You dont buy a house or a car or a bike if you cannot afford it. Having a child is not an fiscal; asset, its a human thing. You certainly dont go having 10 kids if you cant afford them, but even 1 or 2 kids are costly


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    #47
    RachaelVO
    Registered Users Posts: 3,108 ✭✭✭RachaelVO


    I am a parent, and I agree with ya OP!

    I wouldn't dream of inflicting my children on other people. Of course we do take them out, but only to places that are child appropriate. Even when we are in the airport or on public transport, they behave themselves, because they are made do what they are told. I don't mind them singing and talking and playing, once they don't disturb other people. They do NOT run around where they are not supposed to, and at no point in time are they allowed to be miles ahead or behind me or their father

    It's just the way we decided to do it. They are our responsibility and our children, and we have no right to allow them to disturb other people with tantrums and bad behaviour. Even when I have to bring them grocery shopping, they are told in no uncertain terms that if they do misbehave there will be consequences. If we're walking down the street they must hold our hand.

    I have to point out that my kids are 2 and 4, so no one can say it's a toddler tantrum thing, that's horse sh1t. If my 2 year old starts being a pain in the bo11ox, he is taken out of the situation.


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    #48
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    snyper wrote: »
    Because if they lock them under the stairs and go, the cruelty man comes.

    Get a baby sitter? Sure, they're free.

    Dont have children if you cant afford them?!!! You dont buy a house or a car or a bike if you cannot afford it. Having a child is not an fiscal; asset, its a human thing. You certainly dont go having 10 kids if you cant afford them, but even 1 or 2 kids are costly

    I dunno, if my sister (who has three children) ever wants to do anything herself, she leaves them with relatives - grandparents, siblings, aunts, whatever.

    You can go on with this 'they're human beings, blah, blah, blah', they're still f*cking annoying.


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    #49
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    I dunno, if my sister (who has three children) ever wants to do anything herself, she leaves them with relatives - grandparents, siblings, aunts, whatever.

    You can go on with this 'they're human beings, blah, blah, blah', they're still f*cking annoying.


    Children are like poo. You can just about deal with your own, but the extended relative babysitting thing isnt always afforded to some parents


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    #50
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,852 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    snyper wrote: »
    This problem is something caused by our celtic tigerness that wont fcuk off.

    The "sex and the city" life that many people want .

    Ok so you're at an art gallery what the fcuk do you need your ears to look at a painting?

    Ok, so from this thread and others ive read in AH ive established the following list of places you cannot bring a child

    Art gallery - you cant hear the paintings

    Cinema - disturbance

    Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

    The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

    The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

    The doctors - They make noise there too.. and im sick , somone please cry me a river

    School - Yup cant bring them there either

    Holidays - Parents are not allowed holidays - they have children to look after

    Shopping - Pretty much the same reason as all of the above.


    So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step. The second step is to come to the realisation that the world does not revolve around you. It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it.. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them

    What a steaming pile of dung. There are occasions and places that are for adults. Same for families.

    I don't want young kids being in pubs late at night when people are drinking, letting their hair down, and discussing adult issues.

    Likewise I'd be appalled at adults talking in public places during the day in front of kids about sexual conquests or how great drugs are.

    It's simple common sense. :rolleyes:


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    #51
    The King of Moo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    snyper wrote: »
    This problem is something caused by our celtic tigerness that wont fcuk off.

    The "sex and the city" life that many people want .

    Ok so you're at an art gallery what the fcuk do you need your ears to look at a painting?

    Ok, so from this thread and others ive read in AH ive established the following list of places you cannot bring a child

    Art gallery - you cant hear the paintings

    Cinema - disturbance

    Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

    The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

    The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

    The doctors - They make noise there too.. and im sick , somone please cry me a river

    School - Yup cant bring them there either

    Holidays - Parents are not allowed holidays - they have children to look after

    Shopping - Pretty much the same reason as all of the above.


    So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step. The second step is to come to the realisation that the world does not revolve around you. It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it.. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them

    You bring up some interesting cases in your list, but it's such a generalisation to say that people who have a problem with young children causing a nuisance in certain places hate children. I love kids but I don't like when they cause disturbances for people and the parents are oblivious/don't care.

    Also: the cinema? That's the worst place to bring kids!! It's based entirely on people being silent to enjoy it properly. If you've got a baby bring it to a special parent-and-baby screening. If they're older then tell them to be quiet and respect the people around them trying to enjoy the film.


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    #52
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    Kids shouldn't be in pubs in the evening full stop. Unless it's a function room or something, it's depressing and rude to other adults. And there should be plenty of places where everybody can escape from children for drinks and food, even people with children.

    That said, it would be nice if there were more places you could bring kids in town during the day without feeling like you're disturbing people as they're actually far and few between.

    It's also a bit remiss to sit in one of the few places that's clearly a family friendly type place and put your eyes to heaven if kids are beside your table (excluding obvious bratty or out of control kids of course) as there are plenty of places you can go that won't have kids there. I myself had to have a word with some student mong type recently on the subject when he was rolling his eyes in a theatrical fashion akin to a seizure.

    As for public space that are non-negotiable like public transport: nobody likes crying kids on public transport or other such places but it's just part of life and something I try to ignore. Whatever you're going through, it's worse for the parent - excluding out of control kids and brats, I just mean normal kids crying or kicking off which they are all wont to do.


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    #53
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    What a steaming pile of dung. There are occasions and places that are for adults. Same for families.

    I don't want kids young kids being in pubs late at night when people are drinking, letting their hair down, and discussing adult issues.

    Likewise I'd be appalled at adults talking in public places during the day in front of kids about sexual conquests or how great drugs are.

    It's simple common sense. :rolleyes:


    Pile of dung you say? Where did i mention Pubs? Thats illegal to have a child in a pub past 8 is it? I dont agree with children in a pub full stop

    Adults in public places talking about sex? Where exactly do adults talk about sex in a public place? The Art Gallery? You might be suprised, but i dont talk to my missus about the hammering she took in the bed last night, while having breakfast in front of the child.. sex talk is between adults, private place or public place


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    #54
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    The King of Moo wrote: »
    .

    Also: the cinema? That's the worst place to bring kids!! It's based entirely on people being silent to enjoy it properly. If you've got a baby bring it to a special parent-and-baby screening. If they're older then tell them to be quiet and respect the people around them trying to enjoy the film.


    I love the cinema, if iwant to see shrek im not going to watch it at the 1pm screening.. guess whos going to be there..

    I'll go to the later screening when the adults will be there


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    #55
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    snyper wrote: »
    This problem is something caused by our celtic tigerness that wont fcuk off.

    The "sex and the city" life that many people want .

    Ok so you're at an art gallery what the fcuk do you need your ears to look at a painting?

    Ok, so from this thread and others ive read in AH ive established the following list of places you cannot bring a child

    Art gallery - you cant hear the paintings

    Cinema - disturbance

    Resturant - you cant hear your sandwich

    The Park - you cant hear the birds chirp..hey..i got a tip..take off your fcuking ipod when u jog

    The seaside - blocks the sun, leaving only the hole in the ozone for you to enjoy + they make noise

    The doctors - They make noise there too.. and im sick , somone please cry me a river

    School - Yup cant bring them there either

    Holidays - Parents are not allowed holidays - they have children to look after

    Shopping - Pretty much the same reason as all of the above.


    So in essance, rather than the usual ol load of bollox, just admit if you can that you hate children. Thats the first step. The second step is to come to the realisation that the world does not revolve around you. It will be those children that will be paying for your generation to have their arses wiped and nappies changed when you are too old to do it.. and you dont have family of your own because ... you hated children for too long and then when you wantwed them you were too old to have them

    I don't hate children :confused:

    I hate noise pollution. And yes that includes children bawling their heads off because they are bored off their mind of being dragged around art galleries.

    Why would you do that to a child?

    Do you hate children that you would do that them?


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    #56
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    amdublin wrote: »
    I don't hate children :confused:

    I hate noise pollution. And yes that includes children bawling their heads off because they are bored off their mind of being dragged around art galleries.

    Why would you do that to a child?

    Do you hate children that you would do that them?



    Do you have children?


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    #57
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    snyper wrote: »
    Do you have children?

    Yes.

    Do you?


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    #58
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    amdublin wrote: »
    Yes.

    Do you?

    Yes, we do.

    How do you manage to keep a child entertained 24/7?


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    #59
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    RachaelVO wrote: »

    I have to point out that my kids are 2 and 4, so no one can say it's a toddler tantrum thing, that's horse sh1t. If my 2 year old starts being a pain in the bo11ox, he is taken out of the situation.

    I think you're playing to the crowd here a bit in fairness.

    Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

    Plus I assume if your kids cry on a bus or plane, you just walk home or parachute out or something? Or if you're queuing in the bank or somewhere else for some essential purpose, you just walk out?


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    #60
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    snyper wrote: »
    Yes, we do.

    How do you manage to keep a child entertained 24/7?

    God we'll be here all night if I I start my list!

    But considering the original post here is one thing I do: I bring them to places that are entertaining and stimulating. Eg. Playgrounds.

    Are you finding it difficult keeping your child(ren) entertained?


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    #61
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    stovelid wrote: »
    I think you're playing to the crowd here a bit in fairness.

    Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

    No! No you don't!

    You get plenty of expressions of empathy and looks of "fair play to you" and looks of "thank you".

    Unless (s)he has bawled for ten mins and you then eventually decide to remove him/her.

    Guys!! This is not difficult!!!


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