The question of parents with young children in public

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 11:25am

stovelid wrote: »

Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

+1.

the first time my child had a proper full blown tantrum was in tayto park, she was 3. she wouldnt eat her dinner, we told her she couldnt go to the playground if she didnt finish it, she didnt like that and she kept stamping her feet, crying etc. we told her we leaving the park- she screamed. we had to carry her out literally kicking and screaming while everybody stared at us 'young welfare scrounging parents' :rolleyes: they probably thought it was a typical regular occurance for us. doesnt matter that it was the first time in three years that she acted like that and we were doing the proper thing by punishing her actions.

stovelid · 21-05-2011 11:26am

amdublin wrote: »

No! No you don't!
You get plenty of expressions of empathy and looks of "fair play to you" and looks of "thank you".

I'd rather you didn't tell me what I do and do not see.

I have no axe to grind here. I agree with some of the comments on both sides.

Quit it. Your tone is incredibly annoying.

amdublin · 21-05-2011 11:26am

CK2010 wrote: »

+1.

the first time my child had a proper full blown tantrum was in tayto park, she was 3. she wouldnt eat her dinner, we told her she couldnt go to the playground if she didnt finish it, she didnt like that and she kept stamping her feet, crying etc. we told her we leaving the park- she screamed. we had to carry her out literally kicking and screaming while everybody stared at us 'young welfare scrounging parents' :rolleyes: they probably thought it was a typical regular occurance for us. doesnt matter that it was the first time in three years that she acted like that and we were doing the proper thing by punishing her actions.

I think you are playing to the crowd here.

You were doing the right thing by removing the noise pollution so I cannot see how you thought people were unhappy with you

amdublin · 21-05-2011 11:28am

stovelid wrote: »

I'd rather you didn't tell me what I do and do not see.

I have no axe to grind here. I agree with some of the comments on both sides.

Quit it. Your tone is incredibly annoying.

Eh I used the exact phrase you used ie "you get"

Please dont tell me to quit. I'd rather you didn't tell me what I can or can't do.

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 11:29am

amdublin wrote: »

I think you are playing to the crowd here.

You were doing the right thing by removing the noise pollution so I cannot see how you thought people were unhappy with you

playing to what crowd exactly?

people make it very clear how they feel when your child is acting up. this- :rolleyes: -springs to mind. looks of 'my child would never dream of doing that'. looks that il admit giving to parents who dont control their children. it wasnt me thinking they were unhappy,it was me knowing they were judging.

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 11:30am

amdublin wrote: »

Are you finding it difficult keeping your child(ren) entertained?

No fourtunatley, as we live where there are plenty of other kids and as they say there is not better entertainment for children than other children.

My issue is - As a parent, the time you have for yourself outside is limited and i dont agree with screaming kids in resturants or screaming kids in art galleries, but to be honest, hand on heart i think most people that complain about this just dont wantr children there in the first place.

Do i go to these places with out lad - no, but its the attitude of the neysayers that irks me

amdublin · 21-05-2011 11:33am

snyper wrote: »

No fourtunatley, as we live where there are plenty of other kids and as they say there is not better entertainment for children than other children.

My issue is - As a parent, the time you have for yourself outside is limited and i dont agree with screaming kids in resturants or screaming kids in art galleries, but to be honest, hand on heart i think most people that complain about this just dont wantr children there in the first place.

Do i go to these places with out lad - no, but its the attitude of the neysayers that irks me

Hmmm. I disagree.

I think people welcome children.....as long as it does not interfere with their art gallery/restaurant experience......which unfortunately tends to happen.....so for me I don't inflict my Childs bawling on others.......and equally a boring adult environment on my child.

gosuckonalemon · 21-05-2011 11:38am

OP has a point to certain extent.

The one thing that pisses me off is when parents bring their babies to Electric Picnic, using them as little more than a fashion accessory.

Whatever about bringing 6/7/8 year olds who have some idea of what's going on around them, to bring 6-12 month old babies to a music festival where most people are pissed and off their heads is little more than child abuse.

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 11:40am

stovelid wrote: »

I think you're playing to the crowd here a bit in fairness.

Anybody would endeavour to take a child out of a public situation if they're having a tantrum but even in the time it takes to leave the place, you get plenty of rolled eyes and not in my day tuts.

Plus I assume if your kids cry on a bus or plane, you just walk home or parachute out or something? Or if you're queuing in the bank or somewhere else for some essential purpose, you just walk out?

Playing to the crowd??? NO!!! (same accusation could easily be leveled right back atcha)

NO THEY DON'T, You may (I don't know if you have kids or not), I most certainly do, however I've seen people just stand there trying to reason with a child, then bribery ensues, and during that time people are p1ssed off listening to a child not their responsiblity! I've seen this more than a parent taking their child out of the situation!

I have left trolleys with shopping in them. They have never been in a bar (not even a hotel bar), they've been in child friendly restaurants only. They don't whinge on the buses or on the plane, basically cos they know better. You can do the Time Outs anywhere, despite what people think. I've done it MANY times.

Now to be fair to my kids, they are Street Angels House Devils! No doubt about that, there are times I would cheerfully choke the pair of them, however the thing most parents tend to forget, is that if you are interacting with your kids, talking to them, listening to them, or for example on a plane I draw and read with my kids, tantrums are a whole lot less likely. I rarely witness mine have tantrums in public, in fact I'm pretty sure it was last summer I seen my then 18month old son have one.

Tantrums are mostly gonna happen because parents think that their children should understand the concept of time and patience, and therefore exercise reason. If you keep them occupied and entertained and give them the attention they NEED they won't make a holy show of ya.

I don't take them anywhere they are going to be a pain in the ars3. I don't want to be discipling my kids all the time, I want them to have fun, so the golden rule is don't take them anywhere not age appropriate, and don't expect them to behave like adults and for them to exercise reason, they don't have any!

AckwelFoley · 21-05-2011 11:41am

amdublin wrote: »

Hmmm. I disagree.

I think people welcome children.....as long as it does not interfere with their art gallery/restaurant experience......which unfortunately tends to happen.....so for me I don't inflict my Childs bawling on others.......and equally a boring adult environment on my child.

if i go to a resturant a 1pm i expect children to be there and i do expect parents to have reasonable control over them and put their prams where others wont trip over them, on the other hand if i want romance and a child free occasion i go later on in the evening

Give and take, and a little understanding from BOTH sides

amdublin · 21-05-2011 11:46am

snyper wrote: »

if i go to a resturant a 1pm i expect children to be there and i do expect parents to have reasonable control over them and put their prams where others wont trip over them, on the other hand if i want romance and a child free occasion i go later on in the evening

Give and take, and a little understanding from BOTH sides

I agree.

But the bolded items above simply do not occur.....a lot! Why I don't know. It's not rocket science.

I blame the parents :mad:

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:47am

RachaelVO wrote: »

I am a parent, and I agree with ya OP!

I wouldn't dream of inflicting my children on other people. Of course we do take them out, but only to places that are child appropriate. Even when we are in the airport or on public transport, they behave themselves, because they are made do what they are told.

So when they were in their pram like the OP was talking about, and crying, one command and they stopped crying?

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:50am

snyper wrote: »

Give and take, and a little understanding from BOTH sides

Sometimes you have to have experienced both sides to be more understanding. I wonder has the OP experienced only one side?

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 11:52am

robbie7730 wrote: »

So when they were in their pram like the OP was talking about, and crying, one command and they stopped crying?

So picking them up and giving them a cuddle to stop them crying or feeding them cos they might have been hungry when they were babies wouldn't have entered my mind at all... neither would have playing with them and entertaining them when they were a bit bigger...

No, cos I like to shout at them and tell them to shut the fcuk up... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

The King of Moo · 21-05-2011 11:52am

RachaelVO wrote: »

Playing to the crowd??? NO!!! (same accusation could easily be leveled right back atcha)

NO THEY DON'T, You may (I don't know if you have kids or not), I most certainly do, however I've seen people just stand there trying to reason with a child, then bribery ensues, and during that time people are p1ssed off listening to a child not their responsiblity! I've seen this more than a parent taking their child out of the situation!

I have left trolleys with shopping in them. They have never been in a bar (not even a hotel bar), they've been in child friendly restaurants only. They don't whinge on the buses or on the plane, basically cos they know better. You can do the Time Outs anywhere, despite what people think. I've done it MANY times.

Now to be fair to my kids, they are Street Angels House Devils! No doubt about that, there are times I would cheerfully choke the pair of them, however the thing most parents tend to forget, is that if you are interacting with your kids, talking to them, listening to them, or for example on a plane I draw and read with my kids, tantrums are a whole lot less likely. I rarely witness mine have tantrums in public, in fact I'm pretty sure it was last summer I seen my then 18month old son have one.

Tantrums are mostly gonna happen because parents think that their children should understand the concept of time and patience, and therefore exercise reason. If you keep them occupied and entertained and give them the attention they NEED they won't make a holy show of ya.

I don't take them anywhere they are going to be a pain in the ars3. I don't want to be discipling my kids all the time, I want them to have fun, so the golden rule is don't take them anywhere not age appropriate, and don't expect them to behave like adults and for them to exercise reason, they don't have any!

+1
People thinking very young children can exercise reason is such a common mistake today.
I remember a few years ago there was a young girl, about 3 I'd say, running around the place at the airport, and her mother was standing in place saying "Please (little girl's name), I need to be able to trust you!"
The girl hadn't a clue what she was saying and just kept running around!
It was quite sad as she seemed like a nice little girl, but she just wasn't being taught how to behave around others in the way a child should be.

Callan57 · 21-05-2011 11:55am

Rachiee wrote: »

I absolutely adore children but it is precisely that reason why I agree with the op, it is unfair to bring children places where they cannot be stimulated the only reason parents do it is pure selfishness, they want to do such and such and cant get a baby sitter so they just do it anyway, either that or pure ignorance as to what activities are beneficial for children.. parenting unfortunately does not come with a manual.

Although I would think that parenting is extremely demanding and so can understand why people make selfish decisions sometimes

Couldn't agree with you more. Children misbehaving is usually because they are utterly bored and/or overtired & parents put their own entertainment before the interests of their children. When I see parents dragging bored, tired and overwrought children around department stores or supermarkets I often feel like asking why they bothered having children if they are such an inconvenience to their lifestyle.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 11:55am

RachaelVO wrote: »

So picking them up and giving them a cuddle to stop them crying or feeding them cos they might have been hungry when they were babies wouldn't have entered my mind at all... neither would have playing with them and entertaining them when they were a bit bigger...

No, cos I like to shout at them and tell them to shut the fcuk up... :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

My point was, at times, nothing will stop them crying, so unless people are to hide themselves away from all society until the kids are 10, these things will happen.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 12:01pm

Callan57 wrote: »

Couldn't agree with you more. Children misbehaving is usually because they are utterly bored and/or overtired & parents put their own entertainment before the interests of their children. When I see parents dragging bored, tired and overwrought children around department stores or supermarkets I often feel like asking why they bothered having children if they are such an inconvenience to their lifestyle.

So if there is a risk you may ever have to go to tesco, and there is a possibility you may on occasion have to bring any kids you may have, you best not have any so? Maybe you should go ask them why they had kids, that at least will amuse other shoppers to the likely reaction that results.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 12:11pm

gosuckonalemon wrote: »

OP has a point to certain extent.

The one thing that pisses me off is when parents bring their babies to Electric Picnic, using them as little more than a fashion accessory.

Whatever about bringing 6/7/8 year olds who have some idea of what's going on around them, to bring 6-12 month old babies to a music festival where most people are pissed and off their heads is little more than child abuse.

That is a bit silly alright.

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 12:15pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

My point was, at times, nothing will stop them crying, so unless people are to hide themselves away from all society until the kids are 10, these things will happen.

Actually, that's not true! With toddler, they need to be entertained and looked after. However there is a technique called swaddle and soothe, it works from new born up, in approximately 30 seconds.

When a baby is getting hysterical, all they can hear is their own crying, and their limbs will flail all over the place making them worse and causing them more distress. To stop it you need to place your baby on a blanket, folded in a triangular shape, gently bring one hand to his/her side, cross over one side of the blanket, do the same on the other side. Then where his/her legs are, gently hold them straight, fold the blanket up (almost like a mexican wrap if you will) hold your childs head to yours, and sing or shush gently while rocking slowly from side to side. They then hear something other than their own crying, and are calmed VERY quickly! It still may seem like hours to a parent, but it's usually withing 30 seconds (sometimes a bit longer)

This technique has been scientifically and psychologically and clinically proven. The only times it won't work is if it's done incorrectly or if there is something causing the baby pain!

It's a technique I couldn't have lived without! But yes, these things will still happen in public, it's just a matter of knowing how to deal with it!

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 12:22pm

RachaelVO wrote: »

Actually, that's not true! With toddler, they need to be entertained and looked after. However there is a technique called swaddle and soothe, it works from new born up, in approximately 30 seconds.

When a baby is getting hysterical, all they can hear is their own crying, and their limbs will flail all over the place making them worse and causing them more distress. To stop it you need to place your baby on a blanket, folded in a triangular shape, gently bring one hand to his/her side, cross over one side of the blanket, do the same on the other side. Then where his/her legs are, gently hold them straight, fold the blanket up (almost like a mexican wrap if you will) hold your childs head to yours, and sing or shush gently while rocking slowly from side to side. They then hear something other than their own crying, and are calmed VERY quickly! It still may seem like hours to a parent, but it's usually withing 30 seconds (sometimes a bit longer)

This technique has been scientifically and psychologically and clinically proven. The only times it won't work is if it's done incorrectly or if there is something causing the baby pain!

It's a technique I couldn't have lived without!

Yes fine if your in a situation where you can try that, and if you know about it, and have practiced it many times. Although i think the art gallery visitors would prefer the crying than listen to me singing to the baby:D

RachaelVO · 21-05-2011 12:25pm

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yes fine if your in a situation where you can try that, and if you know about it, and have practiced it many times. Although i think the art gallery visitors would prefer the crying than listen to me singing to the baby

Well that bit is not for me to judge

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 12:28pm

RachaelVO wrote: »

Actually, that's not true! With toddler, they need to be entertained and looked after. However there is a technique called swaddle and soothe, it works from new born up, in approximately 30 seconds.

When a baby is getting hysterical, all they can hear is their own crying, and their limbs will flail all over the place making them worse and causing them more distress. To stop it you need to place your baby on a blanket, folded in a triangular shape, gently bring one hand to his/her side, cross over one side of the blanket, do the same on the other side. Then where his/her legs are, gently hold them straight, fold the blanket up (almost like a mexican wrap if you will) hold your childs head to yours, and sing or shush gently while rocking slowly from side to side. They then hear something other than their own crying, and are calmed VERY quickly! It still may seem like hours to a parent, but it's usually withing 30 seconds (sometimes a bit longer)

This technique has been scientifically and psychologically and clinically proven. The only times it won't work is if it's done incorrectly or if there is something causing the baby pain!

It's a technique I couldn't have lived without! But yes, these things will still happen in public, it's just a matter of knowing how to deal with it!

wow, i love how you think caring for a baby can be a simple case of 1+1=2!
a baby is a human being, same as a toddler. you cant just say the formula is... and thats that.
people have bad days, i have days were i nag and moan for no apparent reason, nothing will keep me entertained, im irritable etc. its the same for babies and kids- sometimes they are just having a bad day and your simple formula wont work!!

as for the swaddle and soothe technique, my baby had her own little personality from the moment she was born and HATED being swaddled- hated her hands being held down. all the nurses tried to make me swaddle her and they were swiftly corrected when they saw her scream after they did it. regardless of science proving it due to the similarities to the womb etc.- she hated it!

babies are human beings they dont come with an instruction leaflet because they are all different!

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 12:31pm

RachaelVO wrote: »

But yes, these things will still happen in public, it's just a matter of knowing how to deal with it!

Yes but the OP and other posters are saying the kids should not be out anywhere public, so what would there be to deal with if they had their way? And not every baby is guaranteed to respend to any particular technique i dont think.

BQQ · 21-05-2011 12:32pm

Yeah, Kate and Gerry McCann had the right idea.
Leave them to cry somewhere they won't bother anyone, while you enjoy "adult pursuits" :rolleyes:

shanec1928 · 21-05-2011 12:33pm

later10 wrote: »

You sound like a fantastic parent, but that attitude could be perceived as extraordinarily rude as well.

You wouldnt necessarily be any the wiser after her portraits!

Nevertheless, what gallery it was, or what was happening is irrelevant, Im just illustrating that it was an adult environment typically afforded similar respect to, say, a library.

so why do they have childrens section in library's then. you obviously dont have children and seem to have a hatred towards them

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 12:39pm

CK2010 wrote: »

i have days were i nag and moan for no apparent reason, nothing will keep me entertained, im irritable etc.

We better not bring you to the art gallery either so:D

stovelid · 21-05-2011 12:44pm

RachaelVO wrote: »

Playing to the crowd??? NO!!! (same accusation could easily be leveled right back atcha)

NO THEY DON'T, You may (I don't know if you have kids or not), I most certainly do, however I've seen people just stand there trying to reason with a child, then bribery ensues, and during that time people are p1ssed off listening to a child not their responsiblity! I've seen this more than a parent taking their child out of the situation!

I have left trolleys with shopping in them. They have never been in a bar (not even a hotel bar), they've been in child friendly restaurants only. They don't whinge on the buses or on the plane, basically cos they know better. You can do the Time Outs anywhere, despite what people think. I've done it MANY times.

Now to be fair to my kids, they are Street Angels House Devils! No doubt about that, there are times I would cheerfully choke the pair of them, however the thing most parents tend to forget, is that if you are interacting with your kids, talking to them, listening to them, or for example on a plane I draw and read with my kids, tantrums are a whole lot less likely. I rarely witness mine have tantrums in public, in fact I'm pretty sure it was last summer I seen my then 18month old son have one.

Tantrums are mostly gonna happen because parents think that their children should understand the concept of time and patience, and therefore exercise reason. If you keep them occupied and entertained and give them the attention they NEED they won't make a holy show of ya.

I don't take them anywhere they are going to be a pain in the ars3. I don't want to be discipling my kids all the time, I want them to have fun, so the golden rule is don't take them anywhere not age appropriate, and don't expect them to behave like adults and for them to exercise reason, they don't have any!

Thanks for the parenting breakdown but I'm not sure I ever said that I would take children to somewhere that was not age appropriate (I don;t agree with it for them or for the other people there) or that I wouldn't deal swiftly with tantrums - whether on a proactive level or in situ.

Personally I think it's dumb -and not a little selfish - to take very young kids to places like galleries, pubs and nice/adult restaurants but conversely why not provide more places where parents can - shock horror - go out on a Sunday afternoon and - shock horror - have a life even if they have kids with them.

My point was that very young kids will often act up in public no matter how they are being reared and that you have to strike a balance between minimizing the hassle for others and - playing to the crowd - cravenly apologizing for their very existence to people without kids who are often just objecting to the mere presence of children before the kids even open their mouths and paradoxically will probably end up being the most insufferable my little angels types themselves when they have kids.

Rocky_Dennis · 21-05-2011 12:49pm

forza rovers wrote: »

so why do they have childrens section in library's then. you obviously dont have children and seem to have a hatred towards them

I hate this type of bullsh*t, you don't have to have children to have common sense.
Was at my nephews communion last week, held in a pub. Few kids there and all that. Was getting late, pushing 8 o clock and everyone was starting to get drunk, kids running riot around the pub.

Approached my sisters to take the kids home because they were running wild and disturbing the regular drinkers in the pub, i was met with the same sh*t as always " you don't understand because you don't have kids". "wait till you have kids and you see what it is like"

Firstly bitch*s, if i had kids, i wouldn't have them causing a disturbance in the pub, i would have arranged a babysitter to collect the kids if i had planned on drinking for the day.

And secondly, i don't need to have kids to know the difference between right and wrong and having kids running riot around a pub late in the evening is wrong.

It boils my blood when i get these replies of "you don't understand because you don't have kids" What the fu*k is there to understand. Common sense goes a long way.

Bruthal · 21-05-2011 12:53pm

Andrewh1984 wrote: »

I hate this type of bullsh*t, you don't have to have children to have common sense.
Was at my nephews communion last week, held in a pub. Few kids there and all that. Was getting late, pushing 8 o clock and everyone was starting to get drunk, kids running riot around the pub.

Approached my sisters to take the kids home because they were running wild and disturbing the regular drinkers in the pub, i was met with the same sh*t as always " you don't understand because you don't have kids". "wait till you have kids and you see what it is like"

Firstly bitch*s, if i had kids, i wouldn't have them causing a disturbance in the pub, i would have arranged a babysitter to collect the kids if i had planned on drinking for the day.

And secondly, i don't need to have kids to know the difference between right and wrong and having kids running riot around a pub late in the evening is wrong.

It boils my blood when i get these replies of "you don't understand because you don't have kids" What the fu*k is there to understand. Common sense goes a long way.

Yes but a pub is just one little example. If you have kids, someday you will be in a position somewhere where they will irritate someone. While you dont have kids, all you will ever see is how other peoples kids annoy you.

Not that im saying they should be let run riot in a pub, and that you not having kids excludes you from seeing that it is annoying.

The question of parents with young children in public

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