The question of parents with young children in public

later12 · 21-05-2011 12:51am #1

Can I just say from the outset that I do not subscribe to the belief that children are better seen and not heard, and that I have no problem, distress, irritation or otherwise with those who bear children, nor with children themselves.

However.

What I really find irritating are parents who choose to bring their children to places which may be inappropriate for small children, and where adults are trying to engage in an adult environment.

I was at an exhibition in the Irish Museum of Modern Art recently, when I counted three prams, and two of them with crying children, and one of them with a particularly distressed child who cries went completely ignored as the father stared curiously into the unibrow of a Frida Kahlo portrait.

Other gallery users were clearly irritated, but the babys parent seemed similarly disinterested, and he carried on from room to room, occasionally cooing at the crying baby. Cooing. Why would you take your babies to see Frida Kahlo, and coo at it like you were in your own home?

I have had similar experiences in other public places, most irritatingly in restaurants, coffee houses, bars, and once, irony of ironies, at a Quaker funeral. (Why do parents insist on taking their young children to church or worship?)

Now obviously there are perfectly understandable situations whereby the parent must bring the children with them to an event or an occasion, usually of the last-minute-couldnt-manage-a-babysitter variety. No problem. And obviously when children get to a certain, more coherent age, this sort of socialisation is important. But parents ought to realise that taking their young children certain places can be discomforting to other people who are there to engage in an adult pursuit, or may themselves be there to get away from their kids for a couple of hours.

I understand that there are many difficulties in raising young children, and any reasonable individual respects this. But it isnt everybody else' s responsibility to defer to parenthood and to accomodate your childrens' inappropriate behaviour, especially in adult environments.

kfallon · 21-05-2011 12:56am

Oh look at Lord Arty Farty the snob :pac:

Kanoe · 21-05-2011 12:57am

I don't know, what would you suggest?
also, I'm not sure what kind of answers you're looking for in Ah other than blasting them with piss.

Chuck Stone · 21-05-2011 12:59am

Ah leave the children alone fgs - they're only babies.

WindSock · 21-05-2011 1:02am

Can't even go to the pub to excape the cretins. And don't get me started on hangover breakfast fry establishments.

later12 · 21-05-2011 1:03am

zxy wrote: »

I don't know, what would you suggest?

I don't know... common sense, decency!

When I was a kid, going to an adult environment was considered a treat and we were warned in advance that any inappropriate behaviour would be punished. My parents didn't take me out for dinner with their friends or to exhibitions. Then again I do appreciate that parents are less inclined to leave their kids alone anymore, and there may be financial pressures on paying babysitters, but this is reality, that's parenthood, it wasn't advertised as easy.

FoxT · 21-05-2011 1:06am

When my children were small, I didn't give two hoots if they annoyed others or not, their mother's priority and mine was to ensure that they were comfortable, and not put in situations where they were likely to feel bored, neglected, or upset.

I have never been to IMMA , and I have never heard of Frida Kahlo. In fact, I don't know if Frida Kahlo is a boy, or a girl. Perhaps, as philistines, we have denied our children exposure to some critical elements of the cultural zeitgeist? Who knows. I am sure that if we have got it wrong, they will punish us for years to come.

-FoxT

irjudge · 21-05-2011 1:09am

later10 wrote: »

I understand that there are many difficulties in raising young children

Do you though, Do you really?

Kanoe · 21-05-2011 1:09am

later10 wrote: »

I don't know... common sense, decency!

When I was a kid, going to an adult environment was considered a treat and we were warned in advance that any inappropriate behaviour would be punished. My parents didn't take me out for dinner with their friends or to exhibitions. Then again I do appreciate that parents are less inclined to leave their kids alone anymore, and there may be financial pressures on paying babysitters, but this is reality, that's parenthood, it wasn't advertised as easy.

Hearing screaming babies can be upsetting and I know I wouldn't have stayed if I were in that situation but unless management or staff intervene I can't see what else can be done

later12 · 21-05-2011 1:10am

FoxT wrote: »

When my children were small, I didn't give two hoots if they annoyed others or not

You sound like a fantastic parent, but that attitude could be perceived as extraordinarily rude as well.

I have never been to IMMA , and I have never heard of Frida Kahlo. In fact, I don't know if Frida Kahlo is a boy, or a girl.

You wouldnt necessarily be any the wiser after her portraits!

Nevertheless, what gallery it was, or what was happening is irrelevant, Im just illustrating that it was an adult environment typically afforded similar respect to, say, a library.

Rachiee · 21-05-2011 1:11am

I absolutely adore children but it is precisely that reason why I agree with the op, it is unfair to bring children places where they cannot be stimulated the only reason parents do it is pure selfishness, they want to do such and such and cant get a baby sitter so they just do it anyway, either that or pure ignorance as to what activities are beneficial for children.. parenting unfortunately does not come with a manual.

Although I would think that parenting is extremely demanding and so can understand why people make selfish decisions sometimes

mal1 · 21-05-2011 1:11am

FoxT wrote: »

When my children were small, I didn't give two hoots if they annoyed others or not, their mother's priority and mine was to ensure that they were comfortable, and not put in situations where they were likely to feel bored, neglected, or upset.

Sounds like you were just ensuring your own comfort by making sure your kids were never bored, neglected or upset.

later12 · 21-05-2011 1:12am

irjudge wrote: »

Do you though, Do you really?

I think so. But I'm not a parent, I appreciate I might feel differently if I were a parent.

But I'm speaking from a childless adult's perspective, and I think that such views deserve to be taken into account by parents if we are to take their challenges into account as well.

The King of Moo · 21-05-2011 1:14am

FoxT wrote: »

When my children were small, I didn't give two hoots if they annoyed others or not, their mother's priority and mine was to ensure that they were comfortable, and not put in situations where they were likely to feel bored, neglected, or upset.

I have never been to IMMA , and I have never heard of Frida Kahlo. In fact, I don't know if Frida Kahlo is a boy, or a girl. Perhaps, as philistines, we have denied our children exposure to some critical elements of the cultural zeitgeist? Who knows. I am sure that if we have got it wrong, they will punish us for years to come.

-FoxT

I've a suspicion this may be sarcastic, but if not..

If you didn't care about your kids annoying other people, then I assume you also don't care about getting annoyed by others' kids, no matter how bratty?

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 1:15am

later10 wrote: »

I think so. But I'm not a parent, I appreciate I might feel differently if I were a parent.

But I'm speaking from a childless adult's perspective, and I think that such views deserve to be taken into account by parents if we are to take their challenges into account as well.

Im a parent and I agree completely with your OP. it really irritates me too

kfallon · 21-05-2011 1:15am

We were once those screaming kids in public places!

Oranage2 · 21-05-2011 1:16am

Unfortunetly in the real world people dont just hire babysitters for an hour so mammy/daddy can look at some art expo - Not fair but thats life - Screaming kids very rarely annoy me except in the cinema other than that they dont really bother me -

ColeTrain · 21-05-2011 1:16am

WindSock wrote: »

Can't even go to the pub to excape the cretins. And don't get me started on hangover breakfast fry establishments.

It's not on bringing small kids into a pub unless it's a family occasion.

Few weeks back was in with a few mates. Two of them were playing pool. There were a few small kids running around the place shouting, while their parents were happy out drinking away at the counter. Anyway, of course they went up to the pool table and starting throwing the balls into the pocket. Parents seen them and didn't even apologise or throw a euro on the table for a new game. :mad:

mal1 · 21-05-2011 1:17am

kfallon wrote: »

We were once those screaming kids in public places!

The guy is talking about an art gallery not the ilac centre

Wolfe Tone · 21-05-2011 1:18am

I hate crying kids, little bastards should STFU. The parents are worse, continuing on with whatever they are doing not caring that their demon spawn is ruining everything for everyone else, whether thats a meal, or like what I experienced, peoples study in a bloody library. Leave the kids at home or in childcare if they can't stay quiet rather than making everyone else suffer.

CK2010 · 21-05-2011 1:18am

whats worse is the parents who tell the kids to hang around outside the pub in the carpark while they stay inside drinking.

K-9 · 21-05-2011 1:24am

WindSock wrote: »

Can't even go to the pub to excape the cretins. And don't get me started on hangover breakfast fry establishments.

First part, I can see your point, though there are exceptions.

Second part, don't go to cafe's with a hangover and expect no kids or crying babies. Toddlers have tantrums, adults shouldn't.

For Forks Sake · 21-05-2011 1:38am

CK2010 wrote: »

whats worse is the parents who tell the kids to hang around outside the pub in the carpark while they stay inside drinking.

There's a pub near me that have put a bouncy castle in the carpark precisely to cater for such cretins

irjudge · 21-05-2011 1:42am

later10 wrote: »

I think so. But I'm not a parent, I appreciate I might feel differently if I were a parent.

But I'm speaking from a childless adult's perspective, and I think that such views deserve to be taken into account by parents if we are to take their challenges into account as well.

I think most peoples perspective does change when they have kids. I can completely understand that people want a bit of quiet at Galleries, Libraries etc. But.....

Parents are still human beings whose brains need a bit of stimulation. Kids cry for just about any damn thing and its not always possible to leave them at home. So there is a bit of a quandary there. Consider as well that the guy most likely is not one of the other sort of parents who are often called to task on Boards, the ones who are constantly talking about their kids and boring everybody to death.

Live and let live lads. Whitney Houston was right y'know.

Buceph · 21-05-2011 1:54am

I have no problem, in principle, with parents bringing kids to a pub. It's just unfortunate for a lot of parents that knackers have ruined the activity for them. I think this is a problem with the holiday industry at the moment and just like the lock-in laws, the law against having kids in after nine gets flouted by a lot of publicans. Once kids are teenagers they're generally happy enough playing pool or chatting with the other teenagers in the pub. Or if there's a garden sitting out in it talking ****e and sneaking fags they stole from their parents.

Young kids are different though, there's only so long a five year old will sit happily playing a PSP and that's about as long as a Tanora and pack of Bacon Fries lasts. And that's long enough for the parents to get a single drink in. To expect more from the child is unfair.

Although I did see a crying kid when I was buying fags the other day. He was throwing an almighty wobbly. Bawling his head off and stamping his little feet. It was over his mother only buying him one dinky and not all the ones he wanted. The mother said fine, I'm leaving you behind, and she went around the corner. The kid shut up, but the second she re-appeared he started the wobbler again. The dinky was taken off him, put back on the shelf, and he was marched, screaming out of the shop. If more parents were like that instead of letting little johnny cause havoc whereever they go we wouldn't have to have rules about where you can and can't take kids.

Carawaystick · 21-05-2011 2:11am

later10 wrote: »

Can I just say from the outset that I do not subscribe to the belief that children are better seen and not heard, and that I have no problem, distress, irritation or otherwise with those who bear children, nor with children themselves.

However.

What I really find irritating are parents who choose to bring their children to places which may be inappropriate for small children, and where adults are trying to engage in an adult environment.

I was at an exhibition in the Irish Museum of Modern Art recently, when I counted three prams, and two of them with crying children, ...

I have had similar experiences in other public places, most irritatingly in restaurants, coffee houses, bars, and once, irony of ironies, at a Quaker funeral. (Why do parents insist on taking their young children to church or worship?)

Firstly can you provide evidence you never engaged in such behaviour at any time in your life?

secondly, were the audio exhibits in the imma overwhelmed by the crying children?

I can't understand the OP wondering why people known to children die or need to be buried or want to go to a religious ceremony cause any issues to any onmipotent or omnicient magic faerie like a god?

Snappy the Moose · 21-05-2011 2:36am

Dead right OP, I have started taking my lad into the jacks when we are at restaurants so he won't disturb others outside.

Wolfe Tone · 21-05-2011 3:14am

Snappy the Moose wrote: »

Dead right OP, I have started taking my lad into the jacks when we are at restaurants so he won't disturb others outside.

lol have vision of you locking him in a cubical while you eat the dinner

Turpentine · 21-05-2011 7:23am

later10 wrote: »

Can I just say from the outset that I do not subscribe to the belief that children are better seen and not heard, and that I have no problem, distress, irritation or otherwise with those who bear children, nor with children themselves.

However.

What I really find irritating are parents who choose to bring their children to places which may be inappropriate for small children, and where adults are trying to engage in an adult environment.

I was at an exhibition in the Irish Museum of Modern Art recently, when I counted three prams, and two of them with crying children, and one of them with a particularly distressed child who cries went completely ignored as the father stared curiously into the unibrow of a Frida Kahlo portrait.

Other gallery users were clearly irritated, but the babys parent seemed similarly disinterested, and he carried on from room to room, occasionally cooing at the crying baby. Cooing. Why would you take your babies to see Frida Kahlo, and coo at it like you were in your own home?

I have had similar experiences in other public places, most irritatingly in restaurants, coffee houses, bars, and once, irony of ironies, at a Quaker funeral. (Why do parents insist on taking their young children to church or worship?)

Now obviously there are perfectly understandable situations whereby the parent must bring the children with them to an event or an occasion, usually of the last-minute-couldnt-manage-a-babysitter variety. No problem. And obviously when children get to a certain, more coherent age, this sort of socialisation is important. But parents ought to realise that taking their young children certain places can be discomforting to other people who are there to engage in an adult pursuit, or may themselves be there to get away from their kids for a couple of hours.

I understand that there are many difficulties in raising young children, and any reasonable individual respects this. But it isnt everybody else' s responsibility to defer to parenthood and to accomodate your childrens' inappropriate behaviour, especially in adult environments.

Anyone that brings their kids to an event and lets them disrupt it for all the adults there is an idiot.

I have a nipper. I bring her to galleries and other social gatherings. She's too young to understand social etiquette. When she gets bored of the place or starts acting up we leave.

Zebra3 · 21-05-2011 7:31am

ColeTrain wrote: »

It's not on bringing small kids into a pub unless it's a family occasion.

Few weeks back was in with a few mates. Two of them were playing pool. There were a few small kids running around the place shouting, while their parents were happy out drinking away at the counter. Anyway, of course they went up to the pool table and starting throwing the balls into the pocket. Parents seen them and didn't even apologise or throw a euro on the table for a new game. :mad:

I'd have left and told the bar staff why.

WindSock · 21-05-2011 8:40am

K-9 wrote: »

First part, I can see your point, though there are exceptions.

Second part, don't go to cafe's with a hangover and expect no kids or crying babies. Toddlers have tantrums, adults shouldn't.

Which is why we need a few establishments that serve food in a child unfriendly environment. Hardly an indecent request. There are plenty of other cafes to choose from in Dublin. Give the rest of us some haven.

The question of parents with young children in public

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