Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

ambid

totallegend wrote: »

BACKS (Back five, 5) – Earls, Bowe, Trimble, Fitzgerald, Kearney. (Midfield, 3) – O’Driscoll, D’Arcy, P Wallace. (Outhalves, 2) – Sexton, O’Gara. (Scrumhalves, 3) – Reddan, O’Leary, Stringer.

FORWARDS (Hookers, 3) Best, Cronin, Flannery. (Props, 5) Healy, Ross, Court, Horan, Buckley. (Locks, 3) – O’Connell, O’Callaghan, Cullen. (Backrow, 6) – Heaslip, D Wallace, O’Brien, Ferris, Leamy, McLaughlin.

Mick O'Driscoll will certainly be in. I imagine he'll bring 4 locks, and maybe just five back rows so McLaughlin would unfortunately likely miss out.

Id disagree about five props being too much. Likely high attrition and I understand Russia are good in the scrum. It's an area I wouldn't like to be caught out.

No Geordan Murphy? He's becoming the forgotten man with all his injuries, but I guess we can't bring two long term injured full backs. Pity.

The rest is probably quite predictable. I'd have McFadden in because I'm a fan and agree Boss should be there, but we can probably expect what Thornley predicted here.

sock puppet

Jemo wrote: »

Wallace will travel I reckon.

He has to unless Humphreys is picked as the 3rd outhalf.

CIARAN_BOYLE

totallegend wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0426/1224295459414.html

Gerry Thornley writes an article about "bolters" for the World Cup, then predicts the most conservative squad possible (he assumes 100% fitness):

In between the ultraconservative waffle which could be on the money he did make a good point. Why aren't the IRFU sending Wolfhounds to the Churchill cup. Or were we not invited?

It would give fringe players a real chance to make a mark and claim a spot. Trials for a squad of

Horan, Buckley, Hagan, Wilkinson
Varley
MOD, Tuohy, D Ryan
McLoughlin, McCarthy, Jennings, Ruddock, Henry
Boss, Murray
Wallace
McFadden, Spence, Cave
Fitzgerald, Jones, Carr, G. Murphy, Kearney

totallegend

sock puppet wrote: »

He has to unless Humphreys is picked as the 3rd outhalf.

Humphreys is a complete non-runner unless there is an injury to Sexton or ROG, even then you might see Keatley out there before him.

But then I don't think we even need three out-halves on the plane. We have two guys who are well ahead of the back-ups, if one gets injured the other slots in and then you fly Wallace/Humphreys/Keatley out as cover. Realistically, we should be able to beat USA and Russia if we have John Hayes at out-half, so if Jonny/ROG gets injured against Australia, there's two weeks to recuperate or bring over someone else.

This frees up a space for specialist cover at centre (and Wallace is well down the pecking order there as well). Bring in McFadden and you've another goal-kicker too.

So assuming 13 backs go (as G Thornley does), I'd pick:
SH: Reddan, Boss, Stringer (but TOL will definitely go)
OH: Sexton, ROG
Centre: BOD, D'Arcy, McFadden (or maybe Spence)
Wing: Bowe, Earls, Fitz, Trimble
FB: Kearney

Timothy Bryce

Anyone know if Ferris can cover 4 or 5? I've heard talk of him as an option to cover lock...although this is all theoretical as no doubt he'll be injured/sick etc.

totallegend

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

In between the ultraconservative waffle which could be on the money he did make a good point. Why aren't the IRFU sending Wolfhounds to the Churchill cup. Or were we not invited?

It would give fringe players a real chance to make a mark and claim a spot. Trials for a squad of

Horan, Buckley, Hagan, Wilkinson
Varley
MOD, Tuohy, D Ryan
McLoughlin, McCarthy, Jennings, Ruddock, Henry
Boss, Murray
Wallace
McFadden, Spence, Cave
Fitzgerald, Jones, Carr, G. Murphy, Kearney

Magners semi-finals 14/15 May
HC and Amlin finals 20/21 May
Magners League final 29 May
Churchill Cup 5 - 18 June

Given that it's likely three of the four ML semi-finalists will be Irish and there's a good chance one or both of Leinster and Munster will be in the European finals, you'd be flogging the players to death; three knockout games in three weeks followed by the Churchill Cup would be of questionable value.

GerM

totallegend wrote: »

Given that it's likely three of the four ML semi-finalists will be Irish and there's a good chance one or both of Leinster and Munster will be in the European finals, you'd be flogging the players to death; three knockout games in three weeks followed by the Churchill Cup would be of questionable value.

I wouldn't see an issue with sending an A side along though and one or two injured players like Kearney or POC might avail of some pitch time in one or two of the matches. The likes of Keatley, Carr, iHumph, Faloon, Muldoon, Dominic Ryan, Dave Kearney, Toner, Nagle etc could have made up a side handily enough. Realistically, none of them are going to be involved past the semi finals of the ML, a full month earlier and probably won't be involved in the WC.

At the very least it would be a very useful opportunity to try out some things again 3 of the sides we'll be playing in the WC and get a good look at them whilst seeing how the fringe players manage.

I believe DK is going to name a 50 man training squad in a few weeks though. He must want full control over the players in a training environment and have a full compliment of players for the real contenders to train against.

ambid

totallegend wrote: »

Given that it's likely three of the four ML semi-finalists will be Irish and there's a good chance one or both of Leinster and Munster will be in the European finals, you'd be flogging the players to death; three knockout games in three weeks followed by the Churchill Cup would be of questionable value.

True. They need a break.

I'd love to see us back in the Churchill Cup next time though. I love seeing fringe players get their chance.

sock puppet

totallegend wrote: »

Humphreys is a complete non-runner unless there is an injury to Sexton or ROG, even then you might see Keatley out there before him.

But then I don't think we even need three out-halves on the plane. We have two guys who are well ahead of the back-ups, if one gets injured the other slots in and then you fly Wallace/Humphreys/Keatley out as cover. Realistically, we should be able to beat USA and Russia if we have John Hayes at out-half, so if Jonny/ROG gets injured against Australia, there's two weeks to recuperate or bring over someone else.

Fine if they pick up a long-term injury. What happens if Sexton or ROG pick up a knock before the Australia game?

totallegend

sock puppet wrote: »

Fine if they pick up a long-term injury. What happens if Sexton or ROG pick up a knock before the Australia game?

Yeah, that's always going to be a risk. But if P Wallace has to play out-half against the Aussies, are we not f**ked anyway? No disrespect to him but he's playing all his rugby at 12 nowadays since Humphreys nailed down the 10 jersey and Pienaar became the back-up.

I dunno, Wallace is a decent player but he hasn't been at his best this year at 12 and has had no game time at 10, I just think there are others who would bring more options and depth to the squad.

Kaka10

For what its worth here would be my squad

Props
Ross, Healy, Court, Buckley

Hookers
Best, Cronin, Varley

Second Row
O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen

Back Row
Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Wallace, Jennings, McLaughlin (can also cover 2nd row)

Scrum half
Reddan, Boss, Stringer/Murray/O'Leary

Outhalf
Sexton, O'Gara

Centres
D'arcy, O'Driscoll, McFadden, Wallace

Wing
Earls, Horgan, Bowe, Trimble

Full Back
Kearney, Jones

Utility
Luke Fitzgerald (can cover 11,12,13,14,15)

Theres a 33 man squad.

porterbelly

I don't agree with bringing McLaughlin as a 6 come 2nd row. How many games in the 2nd row has he played? 2 or 3 I'd say. Dan Tuohy has very little experience at 6 so it would be a risk putting him in for this spot as well.

The only candidate for this position should be Mike McCarthy. He's been superb all season for Connacht, both at 6 at the start of the season and 2nd row for the majority. He can play at 4 or 5 in the 2nd row. He's a far more accomplished player than Donnacha Ryan. He showed against Ulster as well the last day what he can do at 6, despite not playing there for a long time. He was the official man of the match, and Kidney was in the stand and I hope he took notice. Lineout, breakdown, ball carrying, work rate, defence and tackling are all very strong attributes of McCarthy making him the perfect choice. He's also very durable and doesn't do injuries as he's been ever present all season.

He should be given an opportunity to make his case in the warm up games. Deccie, Macca won't let you down.

sock puppet

totallegend wrote: »

Yeah, that's always going to be a risk. But if P Wallace has to play out-half against the Aussies, are we not f**ked anyway? No disrespect to him but he's playing all his rugby at 12 nowadays since Humphreys nailed down the 10 jersey and Pienaar became the back-up.

I dunno, Wallace is a decent player but he hasn't been at his best this year at 12 and has had no game time at 10, I just think there are others who would bring more options and depth to the squad.

Wallace hasn't been at his best but he hasn't played badly either. I think we can afford to bring him too because our outside backs are pretty versatile.

edit: and I think that Kidney has him nailed on for the squad at this stage anyway

Cpt_Blackbeard

My attempt:

Props
Ross, Healy, Court, Buckley, Horan(We need 5 props)

Hookers
Best, Cronin, Varley - Flannery would be there if he could get any way fit

Second Row
O'Connell, O'Callaghan, Cullen

Back Row
Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip, Wallace, Leamy, McLaughlin/D.Ryan (Ryan he can continue playing well at 6, like he did against the Ospreys. I'd rather have a specialst lock covering the backrow as POC had had a poor record with injury)

Scrum half
Does it matter? They are all pretty useless. Murray should travel but, he won't so: Reddan, Stringer, O'Leary/Boss

Outhalf
O'Gara, Sexton

Centres
D'arcy, O'Driscoll, McFadden (We don't need Wallace as McFadden can kick too)

Wing
Earls, Bowe, Trimble, Fitzgerald

Full Back
Jones (Kearney plays a negative game and a back 3 of Bowe/Earls/Jones would be the most potent attacking threat. He is a better defender than Kearney too. If Fitz continues to be hopeless, I'd bring Kearney instead of him though)

LeeroyJones

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

McFadden (We don't need Wallace as McFadden can kick too)

It's not just a case of having another kicker, but to have somebody third in line at out-half. Wallace must travel for this reason, unless iHumph or Keatley get some sort of opportunity-which I doubt they will.

jolley123

Thornley's team is probably right, depressingly. My two cents, McFadden and Tuohy deserve to be there and tbh I don't see the point of Leamy being there if you already have Ferris/O'Brien/Heaslip/Wallace. Jennings should go instead of him.

GerM

LeeroyJones wrote: »

It's not just a case of having another kicker, but to have somebody third in line at out-half. Wallace must travel for this reason, unless iHumph or Keatley get some sort of opportunity-which I doubt they will.

It wasn't an issue in the last WC. We'll have to determine what's more important, having someone that can fill in poorly at 10 and do an alright job at 12, or someone who can fill in from 11-14 and do a solid job in all them. Both offer an option with goal kicking. In all seriousness, I've been a staunch defender of PW in the past but he's not playing well at the moment. I'm not sure he's an option at 10 whatsoever anymore. He has only played there a couple of times this season and looked uncomfortable.

I would be more than happy to let ROG or Sexton play 40 minutes against Russia and the USA before pulling them off and putting someone like Geordan Murphy, TOL or Gavin Duffy in at out half if they travel with McFadden kicking. In reality, we should have more than enough quality to have those games dead and buried at half time; these sides aren't as good as Georgia were and we'll be better prepared surely.

Regardless in my opinion, if we are to lose both ROG and Sexton to injury then I don't think it matters if PW is there or not; we're screwed.

LeeroyJones

GerM wrote: »

It wasn't an issue in the last WC. We'll have to determine what's more important, having someone that can fill in poorly at 10 and do an alright job at 12, or someone who can fill in from 11-14 and do a solid job in all them. Both offer an option with goal kicking. In all seriousness, I've been a staunch defender of PW in the past but he's not playing well at the moment. I'm not sure he's an option at 10 whatsoever anymore. He has only played there a couple of times this season and looked uncomfortable.

I would be more than happy to let ROG or Sexton play 40 minutes against Russia and the USA before pulling them off and putting someone like Geordan Murphy, TOL or Gavin Duffy in at out half if they travel with McFadden kicking. In reality, we should have more than enough quality to have those games dead and buried at half time; these sides aren't as good as Georgia were and we'll be better prepared surely.

Regardless in my opinion, if we are to lose both ROG and Sexton to injury then I don't think it matters if PW is there or not; we're screwed.

Certainly there is a gulf in quality between Sexton/ROG and Wallace but to go without a third option at 10 is quite negligent IMO. We cannot refer to the last WC - that was a disaster throughout! This is not to say McFadden should not go, but he should be considered in the same bracket as Trimble, Duffy etc and not at the expense of a 3rd choice 10. For me, that's the same as choosing him over Stringer and Boss instead of choosing a 3rd choice scrum-half.

The issue doesn't only arise if both Sexton and ROG are injured... rather if only one of them pick up a knock we need a replacement on the bench, gone are the days when rugby was a 30 man contest + a handful of subs, the bench is vital for many reasons to the point now that it's a 44 man contest. Every position needs to be filled and covered. Out half is a specialist position, suggesting that players such as Murphy and Duffy could just step into it and see out the USA and Russia is asking a lot of them.

I'd look at it another way and say that we have enough versatility at 11-15 that I think it is unnecessary to accommodate another versatile back at the expense of a cover for a specialist position as fly-half

In an ideal world, I'd actually like to see Humphreys get a run and have him covering the 3rd 10 slot as I've been quite impressed with him... but I just can't see it happening

profitius

The chances of losing both Sexton and ROG are very slim.

danthefan

profitius wrote: »

The chances of losing both Sexton and ROG are very slim.

And if we did we are screwed, Paddy Wallace or no Paddy Wallace.

P.Wallace is not a 10. He's a 12, and a superb 12 at that imo. (not been in great form though)

He's a poor bench option, as he covers 12 and 10/15ish only.

If we were thinking about bringing 2 10s and a backup player that could play 10, I'd rather Keatley than P.Wallace to fill that slot.

However, I realise that that's pretty unlikely.

Fwiw, I would have as much faith in BOD, Earls, D'Arcy, Bowe at 10 as I would P.Wallace.
Fine rugby brains, excellent distribution and pace amongst them, but just not 10s.

For this reason, I think the idea of having a "back up 10", that's not actually a 10 is pretty bizarre.

LeeroyJones

I'm not denying that if we lose both Sexton and ROG we're really up against it, but to completely leave yourself void of options is ridiculous.
If we lost both of them for the whole competition, yea it's unlikely and we're screwed either way. And you can't guard against such bad luck - I understand all that.
It's as unlikely that we lose our 2 first choice hookers or scrum halves, but we need a third option given how specialised a role it is.

What isn't all too unlikely, and should be guarded against, is a scenario where we may lose one of them for say 2-3 weeks. What do we do then if the other picks up a slight knock/yellow card/something-however insignificant which ends a particular game for him. What good is one extra versatile 11-15 player going to do?

tolosenc

Can someone please get Strauss an Irish passport before the world cup? Please?!

danthefan

LeeroyJones wrote: »

I'm not denying that if we lose both Sexton and ROG we're really up against it, but to completely leave yourself void of options is ridiculous.
If we lost both of them for the whole competition, yea it's unlikely and we're screwed either way. And you can't guard against such bad luck - I understand all that. It's as unlikely that we lose our 2 first choice hookers or scrum halves, but we need a third option given how specialised a role it is.
What isn't all to unlikely and should be guarded against is a scenario where we may lose one of them for say 2-3 weeks. What do we do then if the other picks up a slight knock/yellow card/something-however insignificant which ends a particular game for him. What good is one extra versatile 11-15 player going to do?

So your option is a non-specialist 10? Doesn't make much sense imo.

tolosenc

LeeroyJones wrote: »

I'm not denying that if we lose both Sexton and ROG we're really up against it, but to completely leave yourself void of options is ridiculous.

OK, but if we bring Keatley and Humphreys and they get injured... Unlikely, but possible...

LeeroyJones

danthefan wrote: »

So your option is a non-specialist 10? Doesn't make much sense imo.

Actually, as stated earlier, I'd prefer Humphreys, and perhaps Keatley if he got a chance. These guys haven't been a afforded their chance so I'm talking within the means we have at our disposal.

I don't rate Wallace all too highly compared to other European 10s, but I do rate him slightly higher than obviously some people do here.
I certainly do see him as a better option than any utility 11-15 to fill in at 10 however

LeeroyJones

tolosenc wrote: »

OK, but if we bring Keatley and Humphreys and they get injured... Unlikely, but possible...

Ah come on... I did elaborate a bit more to justify you not calling me up on my one opening sentence!

tolosenc

tolosenc wrote: »

Can someone please get Strauss an Irish passport before the world cup? Please?!

Nacewa or Warwick would be the IDEAL 3rd 10 tbh.

Get them passports first.

I can see Rory Best having a huge WC, don't know why, just feel he's going to do the business.

Cpt_Blackbeard

If we lose ROG or Sexton to a long injury, we can call up a replacement. However Wallace will, regretfully, travel.

Strauss isn't Irish and shouldn't play for the country as long as we have another ~5 decent hookers.

Cpt_Blackbeard

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

Strauss isn't Irish and shouldn't play for the country as long as we have another ~5 decent hookers.

I think its time to open a thread on this debate tbh...

People will obviously quantify "being Irish" differently.

What makes someone Irish?

If I've lived here since I was 4 am I Irish?

If I was born in Ireland and moved when I was 6months old and never came back, am I Irish?

If my parents somehow managed to get on an airplane while my Mother was pregnant, and I was born during their holiday in Ireland, and never came back am I Irish?

If my parents were the first people in 12 generations to move out of Ireland and I was born in Australia and returned to Ireland when I finished school / college, am I Irish?

It's definitely not a black / white question.