Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

What really happened Osama bin Laden

Options
1…1314151719

Comments

  • Options
    #482
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    He died years ago
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    if Obama wasn't already killing Pakistani civilians in drone attacks.
    That's a pretty insidious development in warfare alright. You could have civilians being killed left right and centre, and the average Yank would never hear about it (or give a rat's ass) because there are zero Amurrikun casualties. A very soft option for politicians to take too.


  • Options
    #483
    Di0genes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭Di0genes


    He died years ago
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Compare the bin Laden situation with al-Zarqawi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Musab_al-Zarqawi Zarqawi was another of these super-terrorists. He was the leader of "Al Qaeda in Iraq" and had a 25 million dollar bounty on his head. His compound was bombed in 2006. He was buried in the place of death, Iraq despite being Jordanian. His corpse was prominently displayed in a celebratory US press conference

    [GRAPHIC IMAGE]

    His remains were buried in an unmarked grave in Iraq after the FBI had carried out tests and a military autopsy.


    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13275126/ns/world_news-mideast/n_africa/


    Perhaps they learnt from the mistakes of that instance and tried a different approach


  • Options
    #484
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Brown Bomber, just to let you know I replaced the image in your post (#477) with a link. Some people won't want to see that sort of thing.

    And a note to everyone else: if more images do appear, please link to any graphic ones instead of posting them here. This forum is open for people of all ages and dispositions, so we don't want to offend.


  • Options
    #485
    humanji
    Registered Users Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    The US have been launching many drone attacks inside Pakistani territory for some years now so this would be nothing new.
    They have the Pakistani governments permission for those and they aren't targeting cities. They'd never get away with bombing a city to hit one target. Plus, it's a silly thing to do because they won't have any confirmation of the kill. If they bombed the compound and OBL wasn't there, he'd go to ground for another 10 years.

    When they come out a' whoopin and a' hollerin like they have over this they are looking for all the kudos but providing nothing in the way of answers. Certainly the American taxpayer who pays for these military ventures deserves answers when their Govt is making such a public display over this.

    The thing is, a lot of the american voters don't want answers. Obama's ratings jumped by something like 11% when the news broke. A lot of them don't care how it happened, only that it did. And the government aren't really making a huge display over this. It's been pretty low-key in fairness.
    Chipboard wrote: »
    Fair point but I don't think that would have stopped them - they breached the sovereignty of Pakistan and insulted their government afterwards by saying they couldn't be trusted to keep a secret.
    Well we all know the US would never dream of breaching another nations sovereignty. :pac: As I said to Namloc1980, there's also the fact that they'd need the confirm the kill. It'd be such a PR disaster if the mission failed and word got out.
    I don't think that they're saving face. I think they look pretty stupid right now.
    In what way though? They put out a message to the world that the US is not to be f*cked with. That someone who is idolised by fanatics was shot while unarmed and his corpse dumped in a body of water, as if he meant nothing.
    I've used automatic weapons. You don't have to spray, its a choice. It varies with the weapon but if you keep the pressure on they generally ride up and only the first couple of shots hit the target. The less powerful ones don't ride up but they don't do as much damage either.
    By spray, I don't mean they just held the trigger and emptied a magazine, but that they fired small bursts of bullets at their targets. So it would be unlikley to be one single bullet that killed him. The body could have bullet wounds anywhere on it (I don't think we've been given the details yet, have we?), so if one bullet hit his face, it'd be fairly nasty looking.

    There's also the possibility that some of the seals could have shot the body a few times afterwards. OBL is responsible for a lot of deaths, so it's possible one of them wanted to shoot up the body as some sort of macho payback.

    Of course, without the details I'm just coming up with possibilities.

    Thats a whole other conspiracy theory.... You would think that the SEAL team would have to submit written reports back to their commander and that these would be accurate enough, certainly in terms of who died:who lived at least.
    But these things take time. It could have been a case of Chinese Whispers:

    SEAL to man 1: We killed OBL and shot his wife

    Man 1 to Man 2: They shot and killed OBL and his wife
    I think that if it had really gone down as they stated, his body wouldn't be buried at all yet. I don't think they have any respect for Muslims or Muslim practice or anyone really.

    There are Muslims, fanatics and those in between. The burying of the body, in my mind, would be for the benefit of the third group. They want to be seen to respect Islam to reduce the amount of Muslims who may think that they must fight america as it disrespects them.
    Maybe not but we facilitated the US war machine (Shannon) so you could argue that future decisions to do or not do so, could be based on what they do when they are 'on location'. Surely we would have to look at that.

    Even if what the say is true, I think its stinks and I can't believe the way it is being applauded by supposedly civil governments. WTF does Enda Kenny think he's doing. Will the Irish Army be going out on shoot to kill missions next. There is a reason for due process. We would all hope that OBL would get a fair trial and a quick execution. Sending a bunch of assassins after him is barbaric.

    Nelson Mandela was once regarded as a terrorist by the US - imagine ow different things would be if they killed him?
    I fully agree. If they were sent in to kill him it's utterly insane. I think the benefits of capturing him alive would have been immense. Politically, it'd guarantee Obama keeps office for another term, because anytime his popularity wained he could just release some more info about OBL. It doesn't make any sense to me that they'd go out to kill him and abandon everything that the US supposedly stands for.


  • Options
    #486
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    He is alive and well somewhere
    This is obviously very speculative, as there are no photos released on it. However, the description that they have given about the wound OBL received to the head doesn't sound like he was shot facing the SEALs.

    Again, speculative, but I imagine for an op like this the SEALs would be using short barrelled 5.56 weapons. They killed OBL inside the house as he made 'defensive moves', so presumably they couldn't have been more than 5 or so metres away from him. I've seen what a 5.56 round to the head at close range looks like, and it is not like the statement the US made. They said that a large portion of his skull was missing with brain matter was spewed around. From what I've seen entry wounds at close range are remarkably neat. Its the exit wound that is very messy.

    Again, there are so many variables here, they could have shot at an angle that made a mess. They could have been using higher calibre rounds than 5.56, they could have hit him from behind as he ran to a wardrobe or something where there was a weapon.

    However the wound they described would be consistent with an exit wound of someone shot in the back of the head in an execution like OBL daughter claimed.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #487
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    He died years ago
    yekahS wrote: »
    However the wound they described would be consistent with an exit wound of someone shot in the back of the head in an execution like OBL daughter claimed.
    Slightly O/T, but I wonder would his daughter have preferred they slowly cut his head off with a knife while he was still alive, as OBL's comrades did to Ken Bigley and others?


  • Options
    #488
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    He is alive and well somewhere
    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Slightly O/T, but I wonder would his daughter have preferred they slowly cut his head off with a knife while he was still alive, as OBL's comrades did to Ken Bigley and others?

    Don't confuse my skepticism of US claims and motivations, with any sort of support for Osama. He's a scumbag of the highest order.

    However, showing restraint and extending the ideals and virtues of a fair justice system even to scum like him would do far more damage to the cause of Al Qaeda, than murdering a unarmed old man.


  • Options
    #489
    Monty Burnz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,455 ✭✭✭✭Monty Burnz


    He died years ago
    yekahS wrote: »
    Don't confuse my skepticism of US claims and motivations, with any sort of support for Osama.
    Not at all. I just wonder whether his daughter knows what atrocities her father was complicit with.


  • Options
    #490
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    Monty Burnz wrote: »
    Two points:

    1. I'll need to have a good source for this because there's another faked picutre doing the rounds of a burial at sea. Of course, it may well be true.

    2. Is it worse being pushed off a helicopter than being pushed off an aircraft carrier? :confused: On a practical point, the deck of a carrier is pretty high, so the body might have reached terminal velocity before hitting the water. A helicopter could get closer to the water and deliver the body with a slightly more dignified, lower-speed splashdown.

    A human needs to fall about a kilometre before approaching terminal velocity.
    At 15 seconds descent, generally 99% t.v. is attained.

    s = ut + 1/2 at^2
    s = 1/2(9.8)(15)^2
    = 4.9 x 225
    = 1102.5 metres.

    I don't think an aircraft carrier is that high up.


  • Options
    #491
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    fontanalis wrote: »
    Poor Bin Laden, I was awake all night worrying about his death, as I'm sure he used to when a market place full of Iraqis was blown up.

    Oh, so now you believe that Iraqis have some connection to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda as well???

    Jesus wept.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #492
    davoxx
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭davoxx


    He is alive and well somewhere
    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Oh, so now you believe that Iraqis have some connection to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda as well???

    Jesus wept.

    as did Mohammed and Krishna ... i don't know about Buddha but i hope sadness was felt by all.


  • Options
    #493
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    davoxx wrote: »
    as did Mohammed and Krishna ... i don't know about Buddha but i hope sadness was felt by all.


    That was good :rolleyes:

    It now emerges that photo of Obama and Clinton watching the assassination live was a staged hoax as well.

    These people are an embarrassing joke.


  • Options
    #494
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    He died years ago
    jackiebaron wrote: »
    Oh, so now you believe that Iraqis have some connection to Bin Laden and Al Qaeda as well???

    Jesus wept.

    What are you on about? Groups operating in Iraq after the invasion have connections to the al qaeda network. Or you may be one of those that think that muslim groups never kill other muslims and have the best interest of Joe Muslim at heart.
    I just find it amazing peope are getting of up in arms over the death of a piece of filth. I never seen such outrage after a fruit cake group blew up an iraqi market place.


  • Options
    #495
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    He died years ago
    jackiebaron wrote: »
    That was good :rolleyes:

    It now emerges that photo of Obama and Clinton watching the assassination live was a staged hoax as well.

    These people are an embarrassing joke.

    The photos showed the white house watching footage, did they say it was live or of the assassination. As far as I'm aware it was media outlets who claimed it was live.


  • Options
    #496
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,099 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    He is alive and well somewhere
    fontanalis wrote: »
    The photos showed the white house watching footage, did they say it was live or of the assassination. As far as I'm aware it was media outlets who claimed it was live.
    Ah c'mon regardlss, talk about splitting hairs, they angled the picture along those lines for the sake of the media and no mistake.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Options
    #497
    jackiebaron
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭jackiebaron


    fontanalis wrote: »
    The photos showed the white house watching footage, did they say it was live or of the assassination. As far as I'm aware it was media outlets who claimed it was live.


    Nice try, pal but you're bullsh!tting and trying to make excuses:

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Osama-Bin-Laden-Dies-President-Obama-And-Hillary-Clinton-Watch-Operation-That-Killed-Al-Qaeda-Chief/Article/201105115984215?f=rss


  • Options
    #498
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    He died years ago
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Ah c'mon regardlss, talk about splitting hairs, they angled the picture along those lines for the sake of the media and no mistake.

    No I'm not; photos were released. They weren't what they seemed. The skynews link doesn't say the white house said they were live. They were still watching footage. More fuel for the conspiracy theory cottage industry. And they sure as hell aren't faked like some claims.


  • Options
    #499
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    He is alive and well somewhere
    fontanalis wrote: »
    No I'm not; photos were released. They weren't what they seemed. The skynews link doesn't say the white house said they were live. They were still watching footage. More fuel for the conspiracy theory cottage industry. And they sure as hell aren't faked like some claims.

    Could you explain the highlighted text to me please?


  • Options
    #500
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    He is alive and well somewhere
    nullzero wrote: »
    Could you explain the highlighted text to me please?

    Don't, its off-topic. Take it to PM or discuss it in a new thread.


  • Options
    #501
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    He died years ago
    nullzero wrote: »
    Could you explain the highlighted text to me please?

    Every big event that happens these days always has some conspiracy theory attached. The 9/11 thread is still going.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #502
    the varg
    Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭the varg


    Whats Jim Corr saying about it all?? I'll go with him;)


  • Options
    #503
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,104 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    fontanalis wrote: »
    The photos showed the white house watching footage, did they say it was live or of the assassination. As far as I'm aware it was media outlets who claimed it was live.

    John Brennan said they monitored the operation in realtime. Realtime is the same as live.


  • Options
    #504
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    He is alive and well somewhere
    fontanalis wrote: »
    What are you on about? Groups operating in Iraq after the invasion have connections to the al qaeda network.

    After being the operative word.


  • Options
    #505
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    He died years ago
    jackiebaron wrote: »
    That was good :rolleyes:

    It now emerges that photo of Obama and Clinton watching the assassination live was a staged hoax as well.

    These people are an embarrassing joke.

    I wouldn't call it a staged hoax just because it exists sans live footage. Most likely not just the result of a nice photo opportunity either, though!


  • Options
    #506
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    He is alive and well somewhere
    fontanalis wrote: »
    No I'm not; photos were released. They weren't what they seemed. The skynews link doesn't say the white house said they were live. They were still watching footage. More fuel for the conspiracy theory cottage industry. And they sure as hell aren't faked like some claims.

    Snuff porn night in the White House. Poor Hillary is shocked by it all :eek:. So shocked she forgot to turn on her laptop.

    438920-the-war-room.jpg


  • Options
    #507
    Priori
    Closed Accounts Posts: 421 ✭✭Priori


    I voted that I was unsure, or 'open to all possibilities'. The following is of course just my own opinion, and plenty of good contributions (again, in my own opinion) I have left out. I simply wanted to compile the best posts from this thread, as I saw it, to enable other users to get up to speed.

    Just hope it might be of help to some users, that's all, as I know how headache inducing it can be to go straight through more than 30 pages from a single thread without stopping (like I just have! - think I need some panadol). The fact that a lot of the contributions I've picked out happen to be those from moderators is completely incidental - I promise this isn't some sort of exercise in brown-nosing! :)

    Post #206 - Wibbs

    Post #241 - yekahS

    Post #285 - yekahS

    Post #286 - nullzero

    Post #313 - Di0genes

    Post #321 - yehahS

    Post #337 - uncleoswald

    Post #346 - Monty Burnz

    Post #446 - Chipboard

    Post #463 - humanji

    Post #465 - Chipboard


    If this post seems presumptuous, or in breach of etiquette, then please ignore it. I'm just contributing it to help out, as I see it.


  • Options
    #508
    Pauleta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,778 ✭✭✭Pauleta


    My theory on the whole thing is they attacked the compound, killed Bin Ladens henchmen, then brought him into another room, fired 2 air shots but gave Bin Laden a sedative. They then took him to Afghanistan, Guantanamo or some secret location and are torturing him to give up everything he knows. Reports are saying the video feed for the president went down for about 20 minutes. I think they gave a photoshopped a picture of Bin Laden dead and the CIA currently have him without the presidents knowledge. Plausable denial and all that ;) or the president knows about it and this is why they are not releasing a picture.


  • Options
    #509
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    He is alive and well somewhere
    fontanalis wrote: »
    Every big event that happens these days always has some conspiracy theory attached. The 9/11 thread is still going.

    I think that you know you didn't answer the question there.
    Where does the "cottage industry" you were talking about come from, and how does it work exactly?


  • Options
    #510
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,480 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    He is alive and well somewhere
    yekahS wrote: »
    Don't, its off-topic. Take it to PM or discuss it in a new thread.

    Just spotted this now.

    Apologies for pushing the envelope on that topic but I felt it was warranted as there is no cottage industry surrounding CT's, I just wanted fonatanalis to admit it and stop making unchecked sweeping statements.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #511
    uncleoswald
    Registered Users Posts: 1,612 ✭✭✭uncleoswald


    He died years ago
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Snuff porn night in the White House. Poor Hillary is shocked by it all :eek:. So shocked she forgot to turn on her laptop.
    She has said she may have just been trying to suppress a cough in this photo. It seems that whenever anyone tries to paint a picture of the White House been over dramatic about this whole story it doesn't work as Obama et al have been quite reserved and understated about it all.
    nullzero wrote: »
    Just spotted this now.

    Apologies for pushing the envelope on that topic but I felt it was warranted as there is no cottage industry surrounding CT's, I just wanted fonatanalis to admit it and stop making unchecked sweeping statements.
    Again apologies for going off topic I just think this is quite a remarkable statement and will try to tie it in with the topic. Are you seriously saying that there are not a lot of people making money from CTs? There is not a major event in the world that doesn't fall prey to theories and there is not a single way that bin Laden's death could have taken place without books and websites claiming it was the result of a conspiracy and people making money from that conspiracy.


Advertisement