What really happened Osama bin Laden

Monty Burnz

He died years ago

dalyboy wrote: »

Buried at Sea!!!!! If ever there was proof he was dead years ago. The Bin Laden pantamime ends after nearly 10 years of exploiting the myth of this staged Boogie man. I would say he died 8 + years ago. He was reported of having cancer in 2000. That was when he was interviewed by a reporter in hospital, BTW the interview took place at the same time as the US government claimed they didnt know his whereabouts and it took a dumbo reporter to find him and conduct the interview.

Do you have evidence of this? i.e. better evidence than the evidence that says he was killed the other day?

joebucks

Excellent article by Adam Curtis in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-soviet-union-baddie

Excerpts:

The death of Bin Laden may be that point for the simplified story of goodies versus baddies. It was a story born in the US and Britain at the end of the second world war – the "good war". It then went deep into the western imagination during the cold war, was reawakened and has been held together over the last 10 years by the odd alliance of American and European politicians, journalists, "terror experts" and revolutionary Islamists all seeking to shore up their authority in a disillusioned age.

Barack Obama seems to be rejecting this story already. The Europeans still cling to it, though, with the return of "liberal interventionism" in Libya, but it is anxious and halfhearted.

But it is in Afghanistan that the story is really falling apart. We are beginning to realise that this simplification has led to completely unreal fantasies about who we are really fighting. Fantasies that only persist because they justify our presence there. For the fundamental problem with this simple story of good versus evil is that it does not permit a proper critical framework that allows you to properly judge not only those you are fighting, but also your allies.

America and the coalition invaded Afghanistan with the simple aim of destroying the terror camps and setting up a democracy that would allow the country to be ruled by good people. But in the ensuing decade they have been tricked, spun round and deceived by the complex web of vested interests there. And their inability to understand and deal with this has led to the rise of a state crippled by corruption in which it is impossible to know who the "good" people might be any longer.

Meanwhile President Harmid Karzai has immediately pointed out that Bin Laden's killing proves that the real terrorist threat is in Pakistan – and the fight against terror in his country is a fantasy. But we also know that much of what Karzai says may also be the fantasies he uses to justify the growing power of the small elite around him. And so Afghanistan becomes a hall of mirrors – except the one thing everyone agreed on was that Bin Laden wasn't there.

With Bin Laden's death maybe the spell is broken. It does feel that we are at the end of a way of looking at the world that makes no real sense any longer. But the big question is where will the next story come from? And who will be the next baddie? The truth is that the stories are always constructed by those who have the power. Maybe the next big story won't come from America. Or possibly the idea that America's power is declining is actually the new simplistic fantasy of our age.

jackiebaron

Di0genes wrote: »

The obvious is question is why release this information on a May weekend? in 2011.

Why should it matter when it is released? What makes you think timing has anything to do with this?

Di0genes

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Why should it matter when it is released? What makes you think timing has anything to do with this?

If his body was kept on ice for a decade. Why release it now?

Talk E

He is alive and well somewhere

Di0genes wrote: »

If his body was kept on ice for a decade. Why release it now?

Obama's all time low approval rating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhXt4BjLL0g

jackiebaron

fontanalis wrote: »

Yes, that's it. You know everything about me. I can't wait for the day you figure out the bullsh1t cottage indutry you've bought into for what it really is.

Cottage industry, you say?

COTTAGE INDUSTRY???


For the last ten years I've been lied to by the very people in whom you place your undying trust. I've been spoken to like a toddler and asked, nay, demanded of, to shed my natural ability to think and reason for myself and acquiesce to their agenda and recommendation.

YOU, au contraire, seem to be quite malleable and eager to assume such a puerile position without even contemplating subterfuge.

I have been lied to and bullshïtted for the last 10 years. But would you like to know something? I've known it. I knew WMD's in Iraq was a shabby concoction. I knew that Blair's imbecilic claim of "45 minutes before Iraq attacks" was a complete and utter joke...like a country that has been bombed and sanctioned for 10 years is all of a sudden going to send wooden drones across Europe and poison Windsor Park!!

I knew all this shït. I knew that Hussein tried to surrender 2 days before the American Armada turned Iraq into a bombsite. I knew that the Taliban asked for proof of Bin Laden's complicity in the WTC attacks before handing him over....proof that was neither available nor forthcoming.

I knew that Niger yellowcake was a hoax.....why? because IAEA experts stated that it wasn't possible. I knew that Colin Powell's (the very cúnt who whitewashed the Mi Lai massacre) revolting display in front of the UN was a lie .... why.....because the stupid bastard SAID SO!

All these lies and I was called a nut by people like you.

And you have the audacity of calling me out for not BELIEVING a single FÜCKING word that is puked out of Washington or the Pentagon.

I once watched a documentary and this moron American colonel at Bagram in Afghanistan was questioned and basically painted into a corner regarding detainees who had died (been beaten to death) under his watch. With no place left to go he admitted that certain "detainees had expired" but the fücker reasoned that he and his staff had "fessed up" to these mistakes. Like the the asshole should be clapped on the back for admitting to committing murder.

Forgive my bile, but for you to expect me to believe anything that comes out of the piss-soaked maw of Washington or Whitehall is, quite frankly, a bridge way too fücking far.

If you think doubt is a cottage industry then I hope you don't have a wife or girlfried who sluts around behind your back because "it'll never happen again, honey" will be your national anthem.

namloc1980

To be honest I don't know what to think on this. The US Govt is no stranger to making up complete and utter lies (WMD in Iraq anyone?). He could well have been killed at the weekend or he could be dead for some years and they decided to publicly kill him off this weekend.

The thing is Bin Laden was actually a very handy tool for the US and the US was a very handy tool for Bin Laden. The US gave him frontpage news when a new video/audio tape was released and kept him relevant while at the same time using him as Public enemy #1 to keep everyone on their toes.

For now I'll remain sceptical and await further developments.

nullzero

He is alive and well somewhere

Di0genes wrote: »

Yet another post where you display your contempt for the other posters on this forum.

It's a wonder why you bother to deign us with your presence.

Contempt?

How is calling you out on your blatant double standards contempt?
I have a lot of repsepct for the majority of people on this forum.
If I'm honest you have never fallen into that category for the simple reason that you tend to be condescending and you're often to be found insulting other users of this forum.
Usually I wouldn't say these type of things but your history of bans from this forum bears out what I have said.

If you have any other personal comments to make about me you can PM me.
I've used this post to publically reply to your slight on me in your previous post.

If you've got a problem with the content of my posts report them to the mods, as far as I can see my comments in this thread have been on topic (bar this post of course) and have been respectful to everyone.
If you're going to employ double standards you can expect to be pulled up on it. If you find that insulting then I'm sorry, but you are yet to show any quarter to other users of this forum, so why therefor should it be afforded to you?

jackiebaron

Di0genes wrote: »

If his body was kept on ice for a decade. Why release it now?

Release it???

When was his body released?

jackiebaron

Turns out now that Bin Laden wasn't even armed.

Some cock-arse on CNN is whingeing now about why America isn't loved, haha.


Arseholes!

Di0genes

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Release it???

When was his body released?

Into the sea. Why go through this enormous charade right now?

jackiebaron

Di0genes wrote: »

Into the sea. Why go through this enormous charade right now?

You again, with your winning statements.

Incidentally, did you go back and read that crap...that utter faeces that you posted.....you know....that arsehole who can't even spell, and you posted it as some kind of credible source?

You know...the shït about nano-thermite and such?

It must really annoy you to have posted such dung and tag it to yourself.

:pac:

Yitzhak Rabin

He is alive and well somewhere

Jackiebaron, calm yourself down and post civilly or don't post at all

Tom Fiat

He is alive and well somewhere

isn't it likely that if OBL was executed a few years ago that the Bush administration would have used this, particularly in the latter stages of that reign?
or indeed if OBL died of cancer or whatever, again would bush not have been waving the stars and stripes.
this whole thing stinks bigtime btw
if i was an international leader i'd be ****ting myself, no one is now safe from Team America
What type of security does Enda have back in Castlebar?
We did bring down the world economy you know.

Resend

jackiebaron wrote: »

Turns out now that Bin Laden wasn't even armed.

what is the point of that statement? They said he was shot when he resisted? resisted what? They did not ever intend to capture him did they?

Monty Burnz

He died years ago

Tom Fiat wrote: »

isn't it likely that if OBL was executed a few years ago that the Bush administration would have used this, particularly in the latter stages of that reign?
or indeed if OBL died of cancer or whatever, again would bush not have been waving the stars and stripes.

A very good, logical point - which can't be addressed without bringing in another conspiracy theory. Occam's razor, anyone?

jackiebaron

Di0genes wrote: »

I think the moment to distract people would have been several months ago. The US economy is moving towards recovery at the moment

Now I know you well and truly are allergic to the truth if it's uncomfortable.
The US economy is getting worse.
You really are clueless and addicted to false hope and wishful thinking.
The unemployment figures in the US are a disaster. They are being manipulated to make fools think that things are improving when NOTHING is improving. You'll get a figure for unemployment at say 9.8% when the true figure is close to 18 or 19% and why......because the 9.8 figure is massaged so that it doesn't include those millions who either exhausted their unemployment benefits and are now effectively living hand to mouth and those who have basically given up looking for a job. It also doesn't include those millions who are "underemployed" i.e. those who want to work full time but can only get 10 hours a week at Wal-Mart or McDonalds.

So when non-farm payrolls figures are released and the figures are in positive territory by say 50,000 or some meagre number like that, people like you jump for joy when in effect this figure is farcical. It doesn't even put a dent in the 200,000 new jobs that are needed just to keep up with population growth never mind get the 10's of millions who are idle back to work.

When the price of gold and silver are going through the roof what does that tell you, Sparky? ECONOMY IS TANKING. Investors don't have faith in the dollar and they don't have faith in Treasuries. Got that, Friedman?

As an engineer and mathematician I know a thing or two about economics as well and I know a thing or two about meaningless and fudged statistics. For you to bleat on that the US economy is well on its way to recovery just tells me what kind of a person you are....gullible, clueless and deluded.....AND afraid of uncomfortable truths.

Makes my job easier. It means that anything you say about this whole OBL caper is also coming from the mouth of someone who'd swallow a brick.

Monty Burnz

He died years ago

namloc1980 wrote: »

To be honest I don't know what to think on this. The US Govt is no stranger to making up complete and utter lies (WMD in Iraq anyone?).

But the odd thing is this: when it became apparent that there were no WMDs there, none were planted. Bush (and the US, and Blair) got slaughtered over this, but nothing was planted. You had feeble claims from neo-cons and the American far-right that some van somewhere was a WMD lab, and they were laughed out of it.

The WMD episode points not to a devious, cunning and all-knowing US government, but a very human one that did a lot of bad stuff due to stupidity, mistakes, seeing only what they wanted to see, and viewing the world through a very definite ideological prism.

There are plenty of peple on this board who are also looking through a speciific ideological prism: the one that says the US is evil and their leaders (those who even acknowledge that Bush and Obama have had their hands on the wheels) are evil geniuses.

You're unlikely to get to the truth of a CT if your mind is made up before you even look at the evidence. It didn't work for Bush and Rumsfeld and their imaginary WMDs, and it won't work anywhere else either.

jackiebaron

Monty Burnz wrote: »

But the odd thing is this: when it became apparent that there were no WMDs there, none were planted. Bush (and the US, and Blair) got slaughtered over this, but nothing was planted. You had feeble claims from neo-cons and the American far-right that some van somewhere was a WMD lab, and they were laughed out of it.

The WMD episode points not to a devious, cunning and all-knowing US government, but a very human one that did a lot of bad stuff due to stupidity, mistakes, seeing only what they wanted to see, and viewing the world through a very definite ideological prism.

There are plenty of peple on this board who are also looking through a speciific ideological prism: the one that says the US is evil and their leaders (those who even acknowledge that Bush and Obama have had their hands on the wheels) are evil geniuses.

You're unlikely to get to the truth of a CT if your mind is made up before you even look at the evidence. It didn't work for Bush and Rumsfeld and their imaginary WMDs, and it won't work anywhere else either.

Bullsh!t

What about the images of armaments allegedly supplied by Iran to the Iraqi resistance. The devious scumbags in Washington showed pictures and film of crates with rocket launchers in them claiming them to be of Iranian origin. The whole thing was a setup and the print on the crates was in English, not in Farsi or in Arabic. They simply took pictures of some random armaments and then released them to CNN (the news channel for retards) and expected this sh!t to wash.
What about the systemic procedure of humvee crews carrying AK-47s with them so that when they kill a civilian by accident, on purpose or for fun then they can throw the Kalashnikov on the corpse and claim it was a "terrorist".

And if you want to brand me as some kind of America hating lefty CTer, I'll have you know that I have lived in the States for years. I'm a US citizen but I got the fcuk out of there the moment Bush came to power. I knew that was the beginning of the end.

As for your pathetic referral to the US government as a "very human one"....please get off the stage (as a previous poster would say).

Monty Burnz

He died years ago

Jackiebaron, just for information, don't waste your time replying to me as you've become the sole member of my ignore list since yesterday or the day before...

(actually, to correct: answer away all you like, but I won't be reading whatever you are coming out with)

Keep on smilin'!

jackiebaron

Comedian extrodinaire! Love the big shoes, Coco.

humanji

Jackiebaron banned for a day for ignoring a mod warning.

Monty Burnz, do not antagonise other users. If you want to ignore them, then just ignore them.

Jonny7

He died years ago

jackiebaron wrote: »

Bullsh!t

What about the images of armaments allegedly supplied by Iran to the Iraqi resistance. The devious scumbags in Washington showed pictures and film of crates with rocket launchers in them claiming them to be of Iranian origin. The whole thing was a setup and the print on the crates was in English, not in Farsi or in Arabic. They simply took pictures of some random armaments and then released them to CNN (the news channel for retards) and expected this sh!t to wash.
What about the systemic procedure of humvee crews carrying AK-47s with them so that when they kill a civilian by accident, on purpose or for fun then they can throw the Kalashnikov on the corpse and claim it was a "terrorist".

And if you want to brand me as some kind of America hating lefty CTer, I'll have you know that I have lived in the States for years. I'm a US citizen but I got the fcuk out of there the moment Bush came to power. I knew that was the beginning of the end.

As for your pathetic referral to the US government as a "very human one"....please get off the stage (as a previous poster would say).

I've been mulling why there are so few conspiracy theories about Russia...

I mean think about it.. the big corporations, pharmaceutical companies, how on earth would they benefit from communism, really? who's interest was most at stake, who's livelihood was on the line, who's profits were up the air... during...

THE COLD WAR

Think about it, put it together.. we've been played, communism was the light.. but that's not good enough for the corporations, they would die, and they weren't about to let it happen..

They had to keep perpetuating this myth

And we bought the whole thing, hook, line and sinker.. keep spinning the lies, keep the sheeple brainwashed, our only happiness derived from consumerism.. are we really like that?

Or

I guess, it could be, that, uhm, Russian stuff, is not like, so interesting, and anyway, yeah okay they did inject a radiation pill into someone using an umbrella, but its like THEY DONT LIE TO US.. well they did, but.. THEY DON'T GET UP ON A WORLD PODIUM AND PREACH ABOUT RIGHTEOUSNESS AND TOLERANCE.. except that eehh they do..

Just leave me alone! I waant to beliiieve.. I waannt to beliiieevve.. hsss *tinfoil activate*

Monty Burnz

He died years ago

Jonny7 wrote: »

I've been mulling why there are so few conspiracy theories about Russia...

That's a very good question. Russia really is a massively corrupt, undemocratic, nuclear superpower run by oligarchs and the state security bodies - everything that the US is accused of, Russia is in fact. They have had a long history of hard imperialism (give me the US soft version any day). They invade neighbouring countries as they see fit, install puppet governents, and carry out assassinations around the world.

They murder their own citizens at will and journalists if they try to expose anything (so there is no free press). They trump up charges against Western people and companies to steal commercial projects (as Shell learned to their cost at Sakhalin). The place is a huge kleptocracy. I spent some time teaching in a very expensive Swiss boarding school - the Russian students there outnumbered every other nationality. Some of them were there under assumed names.

But for some reason, everybody is looking at the US for their CTs. The obvious reason I think is that all the Russian stuff is going on in Russian, whereas non -US CT fans can tap into the huge CT industry that already exists in the US for the US market.

Wibbs

He is alive and well somewhere

Monty Burnz wrote: »

The WMD episode points not to a devious, cunning and all-knowing US government, but a very human one that did a lot of bad stuff due to stupidity, mistakes, seeing only what they wanted to see, and viewing the world through a very definite ideological prism.

This in a big way. I've reverted from my original suspicion that Usama was dead a few years back, to now believing the Americans. Why? Because they are so amateur hour about the whole thing. From one minute to the next they're changing parts of the story. Not due to conspiracy, but lack of communication and some jingoistic daftness and because the whole thing was rushed. If it was a conspiracy they'd have their story straight at this stage.

What I would believe though is it was a kill mission, not a capture or kill. I'd also believe there was a 'conspiracy' among high level dudes in Pakistan to keep his whereabouts under wraps. Or just a feeling of "well we won't look over there lads, OK?". I reckon he's been hiding in plain sight for most of the last 6 or so years. He wasn't a young nor healthy man. A life hiding in one cave after another seems unlikely to me.

Wibbs

He is alive and well somewhere

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That's a very good question. Russia really is a massively corrupt, undemocratic, nuclear superpower run by oligarchs and the state security bodies - everything that the US is accused of, Russia is in fact. They have had a long history of hard imperialism (give me the US soft version any day). They invade neighbouring countries as they see fit, install puppet governents, and carry out assassinations around the world.

They murder their own citizens at will and journalists if they try to expose anything (so there is no free press). They trump up charges against Western people and companies to steal commercial projects (as Shell learned to their cost at Sakhalin). The place is a huge kleptocracy.

+ a billion. I'd add to your theories why they're ignored with they don't speak English so its hard for non Russian speakers to get a handle on the crazy guff over there and it is crazytown and no mistake.

Jonny7

He died years ago

Monty Burnz wrote: »

That's a very good question. Russia really is a massively corrupt, undemocratic, nuclear superpower run by oligarchs and the state security bodies - everything that the US is accused of, Russia is in fact. They have had a long history of hard imperialism (give me the US soft version any day). They invade neighbouring countries as they see fit, install puppet governents, and carry out assassinations around the world.

They murder their own citizens at will and journalists if they try to expose anything (so there is no free press). They trump up charges against Western people and companies to steal commercial projects (as Shell learned to their cost at Sakhalin). The place is a huge kleptocracy. I spent some time teaching in a very expensive Swiss boarding school - the Russian students there outnumbered every other nationality. Some of them were there under assumed names.

But for some reason, everybody is looking at the US for their CTs. The obvious reason I think is that all the Russian stuff is going on in Russian, whereas non -US CT fans can tap into the huge CT industry that already exists in the US for the US market.

Don't have too much time to reply but..

Theres a guy on the Christianity forum, been aruging against evolution for an eternity, and putting forward that the world is 6,000 years old. He also had to put down plate tectonics, red light shift, carbon dating, etc, etc, etc.

Its thousands upon thousands of posts and last I checked he was still going strong.

If I showed him two reports, one supporting evolution, the second undermining the theory, he would instantaneously and naturally view the former with absolute skepticism, even before he read the words, that would be his state of mind, yet the latter he would approach from an entirely different direction.

I live with two CTer's, they approach everything like that, with a built in filter.

As an example, they were salivating just as D cables from Wikileaks were about to be released - but when they actually came out - there was almost an air of disappointment.. filter got activated..

and now wikileaks is just a smokescreen, an attention diverter, providing just enough 'mild' info to throw public opinion off the real truth

With this mindset, they can release photos AND videos of Bin Laden's death, these people will still not believe, the photos will be doctored, the video's doctored or made ages ago, from the light sources, the shadows, the tiny nitty gritty details.. aand so on and so forth

I'm just commentating on the mindset, not every single CT out there, some of which happen to be very true I am sure

Wheat from the Chaff so to speak.. cornfields from the crop circles.. thermite from the THERE was no ****ing thermite use your common sense, why rig an entire freaking building with explosive that was going to be hit by highly combustible vehicles.. take that enormous risk just for 'added effect'?

okay must calm down

Jeboa Safari

He died years ago

Wibbs wrote: »

What I would believe though is it was a kill mission, not a capture or kill. I'd also believe there was a 'conspiracy' among high level dudes in Pakistan to keep his whereabouts under wraps. Or just a feeling of "well we won't look over there lads, OK?". I reckon he's been hiding in plain sight for most of the last 6 or so years. He wasn't a young nor healthy man. A life hiding in one cave after another seems unlikely to me.

This is the real conspiracy imo, how complicit were the ISI or members of it in sheltering him

Monty Burnz

He died years ago

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

This is the real conspiracy imo, how complicit were the ISI or members of it in sheltering him

Exactly: who knew he was there? And for how long? The US seem to be claiming that the ultimate source for the info was Sheikh Khalid Mohammed, but this exactly the sort of field were you would expect a rational organisation to tell deliberate lies - intelligence. If they got the info from somewhere else and they wanted to protect the source, or not let terrorist groups learn what other info the same source might have, you would expect them to make up a false chain that led them to this 'courier'.

Yitzhak Rabin

He is alive and well somewhere

How exactly was KSM able to provide them with the info to where bin Laden's courier was? I mean he's been in solitary for the last 7 years?