Chasing the Kona dream and a Mai Tai cocktail

kennyb3 wrote: »

Dude totally get where you are coming from but i think its easier to step outside and look in.
As always KB appreciate comments positive/negative i take it all on board.

Like why do one race and give yourself an itch to do more? I dont see what today would of added to your training?
After today i don't have the itch to return to road racing this year any way, who knows for next year i will wait and see. I do not have that explosive speed to react to a break or make a break of my own but that comes with different training. I think i am a steady grinder at the longer distances which tbh is what my training is all about.....going long. In terms of what i got out of today a good workout but nothing relative to the pace i will be holding on IM race day.
This IM training lark can be and is at times a long road sometimes it is nice just to try something different once in a while. God forbid if something happened in IM and i DNF i would be pissed i have not enjoyed some weekends along the way. I think it was Gringo posting in MCOS log that got me thinking about it more.
What i mean is sitting in a bunch on a flat course is generally handy enough (today excused) and unless your doing stints on the front you wont give you much of a workout (lumen did a show of watts for 29 km/ph on your own v's 39km/ph in a bunch and it was the same). Bunch racing involves short anaerobic 2-3 min bursts attempting breaks. All stuff that is the exact opposite of what you are trying to achieve - long steady paced effort. I'd suggest if you are going to race find a hilly course at least that might be a decent workout.
Shocked to see the difference is so big i thought it would be more like 4/5kpmh, on that basis i avg 44kpmh today on my own:) I hear you on everything else it is the opposite on what i am training for but sometimes it is nice to step outside and try something different and support the local club in some way.

As it turns out you prob got that anyway on your own today. But again a long TT the day after your long bike??? Ah i was not all out tt for the whole spin KB i am not that mad otherwise the hr would be in the 160's. Short bursts sort of 10 mins off 10 mins on.

Id be of the opinion though if you wanna race get the ironman done and race the second half of the season.

On the headwind thing - plenty of times dude but you just gotta gear down and spin and go on hr rather than cane yourself. I dont think it was particularly windy by irish standards yesterday though so i was thinking you were more struggling mentally more than anything. Over training doesnt have to be physical it can be mental too.

The other thing id ask you is what you see for the future? Do you wanna get into bike races or run fast marathons? or focus on tri? You seem to be doing trying to do everything and im sure plenty of lads will tell you you ll end up burnt out.

Definitely get your ironman in the bag and have some fun after.
Ironman for this year although i do not think i would have the time year on year to commit the time involved for IM distance. I like running/cycling and hate swimming so i am not so sure on following tri although i think the half IM's may suit me given the swim is a relatively easy distance....i will let you know after the half in 6 weeks:) I am probably suffering from new found fitness a bit like a kid in a sweet shop trying everything out.

Regards myself - managed an hour very easy cycle today - be another week before i can turn a big gear. More torture tuesday night from the physio.
Good to hear you are on the mend do not come back too soon another few days off may do you the world of good.

Fair play on giving it a go today. Harsh lesson - happened me the first race i ever tried - club league race put in too high a group and dropped after 10k. You deffo need to be high up the group to survive or you ll end up sprinting out of every corner and killing yourself.
Darn right KB i was very niave, near impossible to get back on when the gap opens up.

Thanks KB for taking the time to post in detail i hope my reply does not come across as dismissing everything you say just trying to give my own spin on it. I know it is my first year and other IMers would probably frown upon my approach but i want to enjoy myself along the way otherwise what is the point.

Cheers Mac/KB appreciate the feedback and you both raise some valid points. In particular no plan on earth would have a hard/threshold bike after a long bike the day before. I just find my recovery from the cycling is very quick, the running on the other hand:)

Monday
Rest Day

Tuesday
Club Run - 30 min easy session on my own
Left the interval stuff alone tonight and did a handy 3km warm up, 2km at MP which felt very handy tbh and i had to pull the pace back a bit followed by a 1.1km wd to bring me up to 30 minutes.
Legs feel great and i cannot wait for the weekend. JB Junior finished 1st and 2nd in his races tonight:)
Distance: 6.1km
Time: 30 mins
Pace: 4.55km/7.54mile
HR: 160/173

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Whats the plan for London JB? Well done giving the bike racing a go. Good stuff from JB junior too. Its all going on. Can be harder to keep the eye on the ball with the season opening up and so much going on eh!

I plan to go out for a sub 3:10 attempt and head off at around 4:27km pace, essentially 14 secs per km quicker than Barcelona. I am feeling strong and given it is my B race for the year i want to do my best and get a GFA entry next year.
Barcelona caught me on the hop and gave me a huge confidence boost. Some may say aiming for 10 minutes off the PB could be to big an ask but i did finish strong in Barca along with a decent neg split and with a decent hr.
Junior is flying and it is great to see him getting involved at a young age. Your right about so much going on, i feel like i am spinning plates in the air between family/work/training. Sure i have the half IM in 6 weeks time after London...there is no letup:)
Well done again on Conn i was checking the results and i started from the top down knowing full well you would be close to the 3hr mark as the writing was on the wall with the training you are putting in.

Abhainn wrote: »

You might surprise yourself and do a MCOS on it:D
London is flat and fast and the crowds are supposed to be fantastic.
Ensure you drink at every water station, it may be warm towards the end.
See you after. Good luck

I will stop you right there not a chance i will run a sub 3:p i will be hard pushed to do the 3.10.

menoscemo wrote: »

Best of luck on sunday JB. Very ballsy of you to announce a 3:10 attempt, but then that's poker players for you.

Just conditioning my mind to go out and do it as i think the fitness levels are up to it. Could go with the safer 3.15 attempt but whats the point. If i can get 3.10 i will seriously consider a proper marathon training plan next year for a good crack at a sub 3hr...never thought i would say those words:eek:
Sure where would i get the time to play poker now.....retired from the game at this stage.

Izoard wrote: »

Best of luck with it JB...set my PB in London many moons ago - great course.

As I was reading the other thread that popped up about "Can I do an IM after doing a marathon (on no training)", I was thinking about your efforts in prep for an IM as your first tri - it goes to show, if you have the raw materials and the right focus, you can nail the distance in a great time.

Inspiring.

Yeah i just cannot understand why someone would try do an IM without preparing for it or anything for that matter!! Suffering for the guts of 17 hours does not sound appealing and a bit pointless although everyone is different.

Father witnessed a horrible cycling fatality this morning in Belfast and is real shook up, not something i would ever like to experience. Be careful on your bikes lads and lassies as something like this brings home how dangerous and vunerable we can be on the bike at times.
News report

Brianderunner wrote: »

Time until detonation; 48 hours and counting

I should be on the embankment at 24/25 miles to see the fireworks

Joking aside, best of luck Sunday and see you afterwards. Enjoy the experience.

Lol, the fireworks may have gone off at mile 22. If i get to 24/25 mile and i am on target only a sniper will stop me:p See you after the race Brian.

Cheers folks for the good wishes,

mac - lesson learned from barca aswell have two zym tabs wrapped and ready to go
eld - I don't think there is any fear of going off too fast I expect the first 5km to be very crowded.

Number picked up, the expo is something else. Mrs Jb had to get me out of there before I bought everything lol

Well overall a dissapointing result but London is a fantastic marathon to run in and i hope i get the opportunity to race there again.

Pre Race
Arrived over on Saturday morning with Mrs JB and and we headed straight to the Expo to collect race number etc. We were booked in across the road so dropped off the luggage and jumped back onto the tube to the 02 for some lunch and a flick. Nice plate of pasta in the evening and then off to bed early, probably managing about 6 hours.
Nervous as hell on race morning and just about managed a bagel and some porridge.

Race
I was in awe at the pure size of the London Marathon when i arrived at the Red Start and the organisation of it all was brilliant. Lined up in my pen and away we went.
First 10k
I was expecting the first 5km to be crowded but luckily enough i found it ok even after we all joined up after 3 miles. The kms were ticking off nicely at my pace if not a few seconds ahead of plan. Felt good and was loving the support from the crowd. Took a gel around the 8km mark and a few sips of water along the way.
Hit the first 5k in 22:19 and the second in 22:29 so 44:48 for the first 10km.
10k-20k
At this stage of the race i was bursting for a pee stop. I had considered just going as i ran but decided against it. I stopped at the 18/19km for a quick pee and lost about a minute which i stupidly tried to cut the time back too quick. I ran the 19th km in 4:51 which was more likely a 3:51 and i started to feel the pace a bit which was starting to worry me so early on in the race. It was starting to get warm out there and i was finding the weather tougher going than Barca which is probably down to the later start. 5k splits were 22:53 and 23:07 for a 46 min second 10k leaving me a bit off target pace. I took a gel around the 16km mark and took a Zym mixed with water shortly after.
20k-30k
I passed Mrs JB at Tower Bridge and the support along here had the hairs on the back of my neck standing up. Mrs JB said i looked good at this stage although I was working a lot harder. I crossed the half way stage in a pb half marathon time for me, a 1:35:36 which is a minute off my Waterford Half earlier in the year. The wheels felt like they were coming off a little and i knew there was no chance in hell of a sub 3:10 and knew i was facing a tough second half in the sun. 5k splits were 23:12 and a 24:12 for a 47:24 10k split:eek:
30k-finish
I was starting to have trouble with blisters and was cursing myself from changing away from the asics to the sauconys. I was starting to get a numb feeling in my right foot and only realised after a km or so that the sole was coming up the side of my ankle. I had to stop twice to fix this and ended up pulling the bloody thing out. Everything was a struggle at this point and i had blown up way out from the finish.
I did not care about time at this stage and i just wanted to get across the line. I took a short walk break to try and get the cramp out of my quads as they were killing me.
Around mile 23/24 i decided to just jog it in and enjoy the last few miles and the crowds which i did. Splits for this were shocking slow, 25:09 and 30:35 (wheels well and truly fell off by then). The garmin tells the story on how not to run a second half, i crossed the finish line in 3:25:27 with mixed emotions.
Post Race
I went down to the Red Lion straight after the race for a pint and i was probably going through something similiar to what Dermcu posted about in his log. I hate marathons, not for me etc etc. Braindrunner joined us for a few pints which turned into an all day session. I lost count the number of pints i had once we went into double digits:) The body and head was sore on the flight home this morning!!
There are a couple of factors i think which caused the blow up with number 1 being the biggest factor.
1. Pace: It was too quick i learned the hard way i was not in sub 3:10 shape. Could i have ran a sub 3:15? hard to tell but i knew this was always going to be a big ask with a risk of a struggle towards the end. Next time i need to have plenty of PMP miles in the legs.
2. Wrong shoe choice: I had ran 2 16 milers in the sauconys but i should have really stuck with the tried and tested asics which give me more support. I have some ugly blisters on the feet and these did not help my chances.
3. Hydration/Weather: It was warm, much warmer than Barca and i struggled. I think i was over hydrated before the start.
4. Taper/Training: Only doing a one week taper does not help along with a hectic training schedule and a marathon 6 weeks prior does take it out of you. I also would have liked to do a 22 miler in between but it never happened.

Still learning a lot along the way but i am not making it easy for myself.
Garmin Summary
Official

dermCu wrote: »

Sorry to miss you in the pub but my phone died. Well done on slogging it out. It wasn't easy out there. You were asking a lot of yourself so don't be too down about it. Looking back through your log you get through a mountain of work so a 1 week taper could always be hit or miss. You'll be back and trust me it'll be all the sweeter when you have a good one.

Cheers derm, yeah my phone died to. It was tough going alright but it's a great course for a future pb attempt and there is no let up in support around the route. Hopefully I can get through the ballot process for next year and have a better outing.

Monday
Managed 20 minutes/8km on the turbo before i jumped off as quads are shot to bits.

Tuesday
Short Easy Bike
Just out in the small ring to loosen the legs again, lovely day for it.
Distance: 17.17km
Time: 35:07
Avg speed: 29.3kpmh
HR: 142/much lower than this usual garmin spikes again.

Evening Run
Legs felt better after the cycle today so decided to go up and do an easy 5km at the club session. Legs felt ok but the blisters are bloody sore, started off nice and slow and the pace crept up towards the end without me noticing.
Glad i done both of these sessions today as it should help the legs recover. Not sure how the rest of the week will work out but just going to listen to the body.
Distance: 5km
Time: 28:34
Avg pace: 5:42km/9:11mile
No HRM

Just finished calculating how much i have raised for the Children with Leukaemia charity and delighted that i have raised a total of £1,940 STG. Hopefully the money will be put to good use and the last few miles of suffering in London was well worth it for such a great charity.

Macanri wrote: »

A tough one for you there JB, but that will stand to you in your A Race for the y ear. It's possibly by having hard races like that, that we learn the most from them, and what to do differently for the next one.

Congrats on earning so much for the charity.

Looking at your splits you must have got a lift from the crowd towards the end as you picked it back up for the last few kms. Well done, on a tough race so soon after Barca.

PS 'Compeed' is the dogs b... for blisters.

Thanks Mac, yeah as i mentioned whilst i did not come away with the time i wanted i learned a helluva lot in the process. Yeah i enjoyed the last 2/3 km and the crowds do help drive you on. Will try that Compeed as for the sauconys well they are being retired early as they have left my feet in tatters.

ronanmac wrote: »

Thanks for your report, JB, it's a measure of your progress that a 3:25 marathon is annoying the hell out of you! For what it's worth, you're going the right way around it, analysing what didn't work and what you would change. Learning from days like that is the way to improve...

Thanks Rmac, yeah this time last year i would have laughed at 3:25 being a dissapointment for me. I am very critical of my self and do not like making the same mistakes twice.

griffin100 wrote: »

I look forward to the time when I can do a 3.25 marathon on a bay day:)

At this stage of training it is IMO no harm to have a 'bad' day out - it brings back a respect for the distances involved I think. If training is going too well you may start loosing sight of how tough the long day out could be.....or maybe that's just me.

I think the bad day out could well be a blessing in disguise as it has brought me back down to earth with a bang. Sure i was even talking about sub 3 attempts next year before i even ran London:rolleyes:

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Hey JB, shame it didn't work out for you but a couple of things

- you set a HM pb en route - thats takes a lot out of you
- you set a Marathon PB 4 weeks ago and have been training for IM in between - that takes a lot out of you
- it was much warmer than expected - that takes a lot out of you especially in the latter stages
- you were gunning for an 8 min PB 4 weeks after setting the PB - that was very ambitious and probably needed a full marathon taper

Despite that you were on target most of the way which is commendable. The heat got to many. It has been a lot warmer and more humid the last few weeks and as such that drains you a bit more each day, multiply the effect if you haven't focused more on hydration since.

I went for a 90 min run last night with no water straight after work. By 10k I was thirsty, by 15k my lips were bone dry and whatever moiture had solidified at the corners of my mouth. By 18k my RPE shot up and pace dropped. When I got home I was gasping, more tired than usual and a layer of salt on my face. 2 months ago I'd ave gone through the 90 mins fine.

Today at lunch I went for a 40 min walk and even after that I was gasping.

It might be an idea to guage how much net weight you are losing in longer sessions. If its a warm day in the UK on the day, hydration will be critical.

Kudos for the effort and guts to go for it. Back on IM focus now for sure, you have geat work put down and the important taper is not far away!

As usual Mcos you talk sense. The four points you highlighted sums it up really. I weighed myself on Monday as i felt weak when i got home and i was 2kg lighter even with the food and beer on Sunday so i reckon i lost about 3/4kg in the race. If it is like that on IM race day it will be a tough day at the office and pacing/hydration will become more critical.

Not long to go for you now, is it 6 weeks and then taper?