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Logically Sinn Fein are right

24567…10

Comments

  • #32
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,384 ✭✭✭gbee


    I'm ONE vote, I giving one vote only to my local SF Candidate.

    I'm not giving anyone else a vote.


  • #33
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #34
    loldog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 634 ✭✭✭loldog


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    You think debt slavery is logical? You think paying billions per year just on interest is logical? What we need to happen is to break up the cartel of international usury and replace our currency systems with something sane and not so evil.

    .


  • #35
    creaghadoos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭creaghadoos


    danbohan wrote: »

    discussing sinn fein defaulting is irrelevant , they are not going to be in any sort of power or position to do so ,they know that very well hence we get ...........


    SF are not going to be in power. but when the next government make a bigger balls of it, SF are going to say you've tried everyone else, and in 5 years time they will be the strong opposition party, if the others are'nt careful.


    PLEASE REMEMBER THAT ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO SINN FEIN HAD VERY FEW COUNCILLORS IN THE NORTH, AND THEY ARE NOW ONE OF THE RULING PARTIES


  • #36
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #37
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    creaghadoos wrote: »
    danbohan wrote: »

    discussing sinn fein defaulting is irrelevant , they are not going to be in any sort of power or position to do so ,they know that very well hence we get ...........


    SF are not going to be in power. but when the next government make a bigger balls of it, SF are going to say you've tried everyone else, and in 5 years time they will be the strong opposition party, if the others are'nt careful.


    PLEASE REMEMBER THAT ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO SINN FEIN HAD VERY FEW COUNCILLORS IN THE NORTH, AND THEY ARE NOW ONE OF THE RULING PARTIES
    what has this got too do with the real world,when sf get some people who know how too put real policys together,people might listen but saying republician stuff doesnt cut it


  • #38
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    jimaneejeebus wrote: »
    However disingenuis you deem Sinn Feinn to be. [Although I've yet to see a party that have been 'un-disingenuis' around election time!] They are still the only party who are at least entertaining option B below.....

    Option A
    We sign ourselves up to a 400% mortgage-struggle in the doldrums for the next 10 years. When the country has been truly crippled we then default- go to the markets and get charged an extortionate interest rate. Maybe another 5 years down the line we *might* be ok?

    Option B
    Or we default now. Take the extortionate interest rates that the markets will command and maybe after 5 years we *might* be ok?

    Option A will drag us down for 15 years
    Option B will drag us down for 5
    All hypothetical I know-
    But I prefer option B?

    All so simple, we default and those people who lost their money will just give us more. The likely outcome of this is we have to slash 15 to 20 billion from spending. Taking that much money from the economy will flush us down the toilet. While in the toilet no one will give us any money to invest in anything unless it's at ridiculously high rates.


  • #39
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    I think that's a fair point. I'm not one of those who reckon it will be a bed of roses- I'm just saying Hard-Right or Hard-Left.....Sinn Fein are about the closest we're going to get.


  • #40
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    jimaneejeebus wrote: »
    I think that's a fair point. I'm not one of those who reckon it will be a bed of roses- I'm just saying Hard-Right or Hard-Left.....Sinn Fein are about the closest we're going to get.

    The point here is the very people Sinn Fein claim to want to protect are the very ones who will in reality be hit the worst.


  • #41
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    meglome wrote: »
    All so simple, we default and those people who lost their money will just give us more.

    Happens all the time. Germany, Ukraine, Argentina, Pakistan, Russia and Iceland to name a few.


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  • #42
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    meglome wrote: »
    The point here is the very people Sinn Fein claim to want to protect are the very ones who will in reality be hit the worst.

    Whether Sinn Fein realise this or not is not the point.
    The question should be-Will 20 years of a 400% Mortgage followed by the inevitable default be any better for those people?


  • #43
    Doublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 238 ✭✭Doublin


    Centre-Right to Centre-Left: Take the IMF/EU bailout. Kick the can down the road as far as possible. Let the debt accumulate. Pretend everything will be ok. Pray for the economy. Hope that someone else will be in power when it all blows up. The result is a possible catastrophic result down the line, after we've accumulated well over an additional €100 billion in debt.

    This is, to me, the worst option for Ireland, now and for the future, therefore I'll be voting Sinn Fein & Independents. Too much fuddling along the past few years hoping everything will work itself out is what got us here. FG & Labour, I believe, will not change things.


  • #44
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    I dunno Permabear- I think you could be guilty of compartmentalizing the right and the left as if they didn't want the same thing...[default]? I think you go too far in drawing a distinction between the two. As in this
    Permabear wrote: »
    The right wants the country to face up to reality, default, and then deal with rebuilding our country.

    I think a lot of the left want this also no?
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Is it really tho?
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I'm pretty sure a lot of people on the right would deem what the banks and our government have done as being deeply and wholly immoral. I don't think they'd like to be put in the box of unsympathetic bastards so readily?
    Permabear wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Considering that the 'wee man' in this instance is the whole population of Ireland [which includes those on the right AFAIK] I don't think many on the right would disagree here either?
    Permabear wrote: »
    They represent default as if it's a pain-free get-out-of-jail card. It's not.

    I think you underestimate the intelligence of a lot of people. I don't think anyone..even Sinn Fein are kidding themselves that this is going to be easy.


  • #45
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭kincsem


    I said on another thread Sinn Fein have magic beans, and when the money tree grows everything will be sorted.


  • #46
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,012 ✭✭✭kincsem


    I hope they got the Euro version of the money tree.


  • #47
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,019 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #48
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    But the thing is people really really do and seemingly when engaged on it they either can't grasp the current situation or SF's level of ineptitude. Really says a lot about the type of person that votes SF in the first place.


  • #49
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    And yet another Sinn Fein thread :cool:

    Maybe I should start a thread about the texture of Gerry Adams greying beard?

    But seriously, conidering the deminutive size of Sinn Fein in the Republic, one does wonder at the sheer volume of Sinn Fein threads being churned out on a weekly basis. This constant drip drip feed of SF threads is deliberately designed to keep Sinn Fein in the top pages of Boards.ie, and they are succeeding > Is it time there was be a cap on how many threads there are with a given Political Party's name in the title?


  • #50
    Noreen1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭Noreen1


    I'm not a Sinn Fein supporter, though I did vote for Pearse Doherty in the local elections, because the candidates in this constituency were woeful!

    I haven't decided who I will vote for in the upcoming election.

    Like many others, I regard the Bank Bailout as beyond contempt.

    For this reason, I agree with Sinn Fein that the Bank guarantee should never have been put in place, except as a very temporary emergency measure.

    Both FF and FG supported the continuation of the guarantee. Enda Kenny, on the night before we received the "final" 34 Billion bill for Anglo decided to support FF in writing a blank cheque. I haven't forgiven him for that!

    Labour chat about renotiating the Bailout. The truth is, they are unlikely to lead the Government. If they form a coalition, they will be junior partners, with limited input to policy.

    On the subject of renegotiation - it's strange that all the major parties (except FF) are suddenly anxious to renegotiate, after SF pulled the default card out of the bag. Hmmm....

    Logically, SF are right - Irish citizens should not have to be impoverished to keep the megawealthy in the style to which they have been accustomed.
    The trouble is, like all the other parties, their policies are just not believable.

    I'm in favour of a structured default, because I believe it's the only option left, and that we will ultimately default anyway.

    Now why can't I find a party who share those beliefs? God knows, enough economists are advocating it!!


  • #51
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    @phantom Lord

    Because burning investors who took a risk that didn't pay off is the right thing to do.
    Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on this notion. If Fine Gael, Fianna Fail, Labour et al. were to come around to this way of thinking- I would vote for them.
    Call me crazy or stupid if you will. I don't care. Logically, Sinn Fein are right.


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  • #52
    KIERAN1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 246 ✭✭KIERAN1


    phantom_lord wrote: »
    But the thing is people really really do and seemingly when engaged on it they either can't grasp the current situation or SF's level of ineptitude. Really says a lot about the type of person that votes SF in the first place.

    Your being disingenuous to Sinn Fein, in my opinion, as some of our well respected knowledgeable Economists, have clearly stated on the record given support, that there should be a burning of the senior bondholders to safe the Irish economy. I bet your one of those people that once supported Fianna Fail in 2007, but will not admit it today. The European union is not going to negotiate, the interest rate on the bail-out, with us alll that much/ 1% if we are lucky. So what is the plan, what option is there if we are told to get lost, the fact FG AND Labour are aware of this should give you some pause/ the 5.8% to 6% interest rate on this 90billion loan can not be afforded by the Irish citizen. Explain to me this. Why should Irish taxpayers pay an interest rate of 5.8% on debts incurred by private banks, show me your wisdom on this issue!


  • #53
    jimaneejeebus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭jimaneejeebus


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    My point is that we can't default if we vote for anyone else??? At least Sinn Fein have the balls to do something about it. They write about it in their manifesto- they don't gloss over when you ask them about it. They don't ignore it.
    Inaction causes stagnation.

    I'll take 5-10 years of pain over 15-20 any day.


  • #54
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    meglome wrote: »
    All so simple, we default and those people who lost their money will just give us more. The likely outcome of this is we have to slash 15 to 20 billion from spending. Taking that much money from the economy will flush us down the toilet. While in the toilet no one will give us any money to invest in anything unless it's at ridiculously high rates.

    thats why sf policy will never work only wreck ireland , this post say it all too too ruin a country more


  • #55
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    jimaneejeebus wrote: »
    @phantom Lord

    Because burning investors who took a risk that didn't pay off is the right thing to do.
    Sinn Fein don't have a monopoly on this notion. If Fine Gael, Fianna Fail, Labour et al. were to come around to this way of thinking- I would vote for them.
    Call me crazy or stupid if you will. I don't care. Logically, Sinn Fein are right.

    sf cant think,why will never see goverment,


  • #56
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    KIERAN1 wrote: »
    Your being disingenuous to Sinn Fein, in my opinion, as some of our well respected knowledgeable Economists, have clearly stated on the record given support, that there should be a burning of the senior bondholders to safe the Irish economy. I bet your one of those people that once supported Fianna Fail in 2007, but will not admit it today. The European union is not going to negotiate, the interest rate on the bail-out, with us alll that much/ 1% if we are lucky. So what is the plan, what option is there if we are told to get lost, the fact FG AND Labour are aware of this should give you some pause/ the 5.8% to 6% interest rate on this 90billion loan can not be afforded by the Irish citizen. Explain to me this. Why should Irish taxpayers pay an interest rate of 5.8% on debts incurred by private banks, show me your wisdom on this issue!
    burning the bondholders wont fix it,do the maths,its like sf supporters other plan,the pension fund which wont work,maybe sf need too go back too school again


  • #57
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,613 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    jimaneejeebus wrote: »
    My point is that we can't default if we vote for anyone else??? At least Sinn Fein have the balls to do something about it. They write about it in their manifesto- they don't gloss over when you ask them about it. They don't ignore it.
    Inaction causes stagnation.

    I'll take 5-10 years of pain over 15-20 any day.

    So let's say SF are in Government and we tell the IMF to feck off with their money and default. How do SF propose to instantly close the budget deficit??


  • #58
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    jimaneejeebus wrote: »
    My point is that we can't default if we vote for anyone else??? At least Sinn Fein have the balls to do something about it. They write about it in their manifesto- they don't gloss over when you ask them about it. They don't ignore it.
    Inaction causes stagnation.

    I'll take 5-10 years of pain over 15-20 any day.

    we can vote for everyone else as because then we have a good chance of ireland getting sorted but with sf,we be in ice age


  • #59
    phantom_lord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭phantom_lord


    KIERAN1 wrote: »
    Your being disingenuous to Sinn Fein, in my opinion, as some of our well respected knowledgeable Economists, have clearly stated on the record given support, that there should be a burning of the senior bondholders to safe the Irish economy. I bet your one of those people that once supported Fianna Fail in 2007, but will not admit it today. The European union is not going to negotiate, the interest rate on the bail-out, with us alll that much/ 1% if we are lucky. So what is the plan, what option is there if we are told to get lost, the fact FG AND Labour are aware of this should give you some pause/ the 5.8% to 6% interest rate on this 90billion loan can not be afforded by the Irish citizen. Explain to me this. Why should Irish taxpayers pay an interest rate of 5.8% on debts incurred by private banks, show me your wisdom on this issue!

    Do you not realise that even if the banking problem disappeared tomorrow we still have a huge deficit to fund and deal with? And that SF's solution to this is to...I'm not actually sure what it is actually? I don't think they even know either. But that doesn't matter, they're just telling everyone it'll be fine and their supporters and swallowing it hook line and sinker.


  • #60
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,781 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    phantom_lord wrote: »
    Do you not realise that even if the banking problem disappeared tomorrow we still have a huge deficit to fund and deal with? And that SF's solution to this is to...I'm not actually sure what it is actually? I don't think they even know either. But that doesn't matter, they're just telling everyone it'll be fine and their supporters and swallowing it hook line and sinker.

    i dont think sf and supporters club thought much of it,they make me laugh,burn everyone one and then think they get money off them,how stupid a idea is that,do the maths,,think


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  • #61
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,364 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    creaghadoos wrote: »
    adams was the only one who spoke of indigenous small business being central to job creation.

    as someone who owns a small indigenous business the thought of Gerry and SF running the show is truly terrifying


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